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Buying [used] kills all the babies
Local H Jay
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
So I felt the need to make this thread so I can stop shitting up other threads with discussion on this topic.
Buying used games has become a very divisive topic among gamers and it's frankly reaching critically mass with online passes and pre-order incentives. To some like me, there is no problem buying games second hand. They are legitimate copies of games, that have already been paid for by someone else. Buying used is a good way to save money and still enjoy many games rather than a select few.
There are also many more people who believe buying used is bad. There are many reasons people assume this, ranging from "used game sales hurts game developers!" to "used games are generally in poor condition!". Both of these notions are false, and it's funny how often arguments like these are used. Buying used does not hurt the developer one bit, as they have already made money on the initial purchase of the game. like every other medium, games are subject to resale. It's up to developers and publishers to make quality games worth buying new, if it doesn't seem like a game worth $60 you bet your ass i'll wait and buy secondhand. There also many opportunities to make money of used sales by way of DLC, online passes, and future installments.
The main problem i see most people bringing up is gamestop, and it's admittedly poor business practices. While it's easy to place blame on one company like that, it remains a fact that people would buy used no matter who was selling the game. Gamestop manages to stock the most, have a 'good' trade in program, and makes it easy for people to turn old games into new ones. It's fine to take umbrage with the company itself but to say used game sales are a problem is a joke.
So what say you? is it an awful, terrible practice that needs to die? Or a reality of any market that has expensive products? Do you hate people who buy used? Is gamestop actually a portal to hell?
Buying used games has become a very divisive topic among gamers and it's frankly reaching critically mass with online passes and pre-order incentives. To some like me, there is no problem buying games second hand. They are legitimate copies of games, that have already been paid for by someone else. Buying used is a good way to save money and still enjoy many games rather than a select few.
There are also many more people who believe buying used is bad. There are many reasons people assume this, ranging from "used game sales hurts game developers!" to "used games are generally in poor condition!". Both of these notions are false, and it's funny how often arguments like these are used. Buying used does not hurt the developer one bit, as they have already made money on the initial purchase of the game. like every other medium, games are subject to resale. It's up to developers and publishers to make quality games worth buying new, if it doesn't seem like a game worth $60 you bet your ass i'll wait and buy secondhand. There also many opportunities to make money of used sales by way of DLC, online passes, and future installments.
The main problem i see most people bringing up is gamestop, and it's admittedly poor business practices. While it's easy to place blame on one company like that, it remains a fact that people would buy used no matter who was selling the game. Gamestop manages to stock the most, have a 'good' trade in program, and makes it easy for people to turn old games into new ones. It's fine to take umbrage with the company itself but to say used game sales are a problem is a joke.
So what say you? is it an awful, terrible practice that needs to die? Or a reality of any market that has expensive products? Do you hate people who buy used? Is gamestop actually a portal to hell?
Local H Jay on
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ebay
of course, and it's also in my rights to dislike practices like that that punish people who just want save some money
On the other hand, I very clearly understand why publishers hate them and don't fault them for trying to give people incentives to buy new.
That said, online passes on the 360 (where you are already in theory paying for multiplayer) seem wrong to me and I hope MS doesn't let that happen on the next system, or at least makes it so that there is some form of multiplayer usable without the online pass.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-57366736-1/next-xbox-to-prevent-you-from-playing-used-games/
Speculatory.
Origin: Broncbuster
Oh, absolutely. Explain why they should care.
Shit, I didn't make use of a lot of the content Dragon Age 1 had for buying new. I grabbed Shale and...that's it.
I can't imagine there is any way this actually happens, but it is technically feasible.
because it won't deter me in the slightest from buying their games used, and the end result is an asinine system that punishes offline gamers.
won't happen, but it's a scary thought
Well they're "punishing" you because you aren't actually their customer. They don't care about you and want your money somehow.
You != Everyone, though. Personally, if I see a something with an online pass, and the used copy is only like $5 cheaper, I'm buying the new copy so I can get that online pass.
Plus, offline gamers are going to be punished regardless. You're going to miss patches, you're going to miss it when certain games have free downloadable content, etc. The game industry at large simply assumes that people will have internet access one way or another.
oh definitely, i can understand that. but with a used game sale, they have more chances to earn money off that person. if the person buys it used and enjoys it, they may buy the sequel new, or DLC. but if they make it difficult for people to enjoy the game used they risk messing with their chances of earning a new customer. used sales help developers more than they'd like to think. also a used =/= a new sale lost, because likely they have a choice of buying used or not at all.
Steam - Minty D. Vision!
Origin/BF3 - MintyDVision
of course i'm speaking for myself, i'd never assume everyone shares my opinions. but i also don't buy games that are only discounted by $5. i wait a month or two and get it $30 off instead.
those things you mention as punishment are just facets of being offline, they don't prevent the player from enjoying the game. and often you can get those patches and DLC by simply getting the GOTY edition if you are patient enough.
1) Because there is a game you like, but don't love. Therefore, you won't buy it at it's current price because you don't think it's worth it.
2) The game you are buying used is an older game that you used to love, but lost the original copy so you're buying this used copy for $5.
3) You are browsing the game shop and find a game from a developer you really love that you never knew existed. You buy it to give it a try because it is now in the $5 bargain bin.
4) You find a classic game at the game shop that you've never played before.
Personally those are my top reasons. I'm guessing they are some of the main reasons for everyone else as well.
Edit: The value $5 is used to reflect a small amount of money. It could be $10-$20, but that is still way lower than the original price.
I've said this before, but the reason companies are making this into such a huge issue pretty much begins and ends with Gamestop. While sales of used books/music/video/etc. absolutely exist, there's no real national, non-charity store that sells used stuff in any other category in anywhere near Gamestop's scale.
Chew on this: the company's last earnings report indicated Gamestop controls 60-70 percent of U.S. game sales.
Doing some napkin math and assuming half of everything Gamestop sells is used, that indicates that a full 30 percent of all games sold are used, and that's not even counting ebay, Amazon, regional chains, mom and pops, etc. Then again, if that 60-70 percent excludes used games, that number of used games could get even bigger.
Won't happen? It very well could happen. You would be surprised at how money hungry some people/companies can be.
That being said, it is very likely that if it does happen, the profit goes out the window as well seeing as how there is only so much that I will take before I say screw it and stop giving them my money.
Ask for the initial questions that were brought up, I have no problem with used games and own a decent about myself. I would hate to see it go but at the same time, the companies are losing money on them. Are they going into the red because of used games? No, no they are not, but when someone buys a used game, the producers think that is one new game they could have sold and did not. That is a loss to them. Hence their thought processes on trying to stop them from happening.
I used to work for a college book store. We sold both used and new books. One thing that I learned while working there is that when something has used products that are being bought and resold, that actually drives up the prices of the new books (and therefore the used by a bit as well). Its a vicious cycle of supply and demand and if used were to just disappear, who knows where the prices would be.
I would like to see a middle ground but I don't think that is possible and I don't think that the used game market should stop. Basically, I don't have an answer, I just have options
5) You can not currently find a new copy to purchase, or it's very difficult to do so.
Why didn't you preorder it? Assuming you go to a gamestop and only have to put 10% down?
Anyway, the semantics aside, used games do deny the publisher/developer a sale, but only in the same way that used movies and CDs do, and those have always had strong used markets. Ultimately, by buying used, you are acknowledging that you may be forfeiting any ability to play the game online and the bitch about that is basically like bitching that your car isn't a Ferrari when you bought a Ford. You know what you're getting when you pay for it.
With Steam offering massive markdowns on new games during their big sales, the 'save money' approach is also pretty bunk for PC games. I bet Skyrim being like $30 for Steam's Christmas sale or whenever that was happened to be cheaper than any used copy Gamestop was selling.
I hope, really really hope that the next XBox comes with a 2+TB hard drive and all games are available on Live Marketplace. I want to be done with physical media for my games.
Can not tell if sarcastic.
Because I just bought a console and the game is 3 years old?
Also, Amazon. Hell, even Gamestop's website is pretty good (mainly because it's run by a completely different organization than the retail stores).
Often by that time the 'new' price drops as well, though. If someone's intent on getting a good deal, stuff like online passes are something to take into account.
Doesn't the same go for someone buying used? Lacking the online pass doesn't prevent one from enjoying the game, and if you're patient, you can buy that GOTY edition cheap enough as a new copy, especially if it's on PC and you wait for some super Steam sale.
Hmm I wasn't being sarcastic, I just assumed you were looking for a month old game that was sold out. Anyways, that makes perfect sense now that you clarified.
It's not unthinkable that the next-gen systems will lean heavily toward online-distribution for most software, and the used game market will be kaput.
i don't agree with the idea that a used sale is a new sale lost, because for me atleast, if i can't afford it used i'll just skip it. it's not like people go to the store hoping to buy used and then if they are out buy it new. they are trying to save money, and buying new likely isn't in the cards.
i'm not talking about PC mostly because there's no resale market for those games. steam does great things but they also the exception and not the rule.
i personally do not like the idea of an all digital console. not having a tangible library of games is worrisome, because at any time their services can shut down and leave you with no games. what happens if steam or xbox live go under? do our digital game libraries disappear into the great beyond?
Why should anyone preorder?
Also I've been reading some of the anti-used opinions in the industry thread and I would say some you guys are crazy/brainwashed.
as for the above, no, because many games like arkham city and KoA are locking players out of content on the disc because they do not buy new. obviously it's up to the customer to decide if it's worth losing out to save some money, but it can affect the enjoyment you get out of it.
Do you realize how invalid that example is? It was Black Friday. The game is still $59.99 today.
Wait, your example works as long as you're okay with waiting until Black Friday to buy all your video games.
Video stores pay more money for rental copies because it has a different license that lets them do that.
Valve has said that if Steam goes under, they will do some magic that turns off the Steamworks DRM beforehand. But if Valve or Microsoft goes out of business, we're pretty much talking about the end of the Games Industry anyway.
Edit: Also, Jesus please use your shift key.
Rental outfits have a deal with publishers that lets them rent the game out.
And yes, you're likely violating the EULA, but I doubt anyone really cares.
With all digital distribution, yeah, that's the risk you take, but I look at the reality: In order to play older games I have to keep extra consoles around because my Gamecube didn't play N64 games which didn't play SNES games which didn't play NES games, etc. Back compatibility is an unknown at this point because Sony stopped PS2 compatibility in the PS3 after publishers bitched about lackluster sales of new games, so I'm not holding out hope that new consoles will continue to be back compatible.
So support of old games is really iffy anyway, and if your console dies after it's no longer sold, you're kinda hooped anyway. No difference except digital distribution is a lot less likely to fail than hardware. Valve is making money hand over fist with Steam, and I can see Steam being the defacto distro method for PC soon if it hasn't happened already. Steam is not the exception. Steam is doing gangbusters business.
It's not much different than waiting on a Steam sale; sure, they're more frequent, but I almost always wait for the big seasonal sales before I buy a game, unless it's a daily or a Weekend deal.