Every ranked game I've gone bot... let me correct that, just about every game I've gone bot as volibear, I've won. Kinda infurryating how much people seem to hate to stray from the norm.
If people accept that while team composition matters, the metagame really doesn't at lower elos, pub games would be so much more fun....
Reminds me of a pub Cait while I was playing with uber. He picked GP early, but other people fucked up the lane comp, so it was him / her bot. Not ideal, but whatever. "Stop stealing CS GP."
I called her out on that shit though, in a way that wasn't mean, but very clearly expressed she was 100% wrong.
If you want 0 CS support in unranked gameplay, you can play 0 CS support. Hell, for that matter, someone is going to be in for an unfortunate surprise if they think I'm playing support other than Karma in ranked. I'll play whatever role I'm asked to (with the caveat that I'm grabbing top solo if I am first pick, because my win rate top solo is magnificent), but I pick the champ within the role.
Edit: I'm approx. one win away from top 5% in Dominion, which isn't too shabby. I feel like I'm a touch underrated at the moment. I think, esp. with multi-queue with the awesome dudes here, I should be able to hit 1900+.
Every ranked game I've gone bot... let me correct that, just about every game I've gone bot as volibear, I've won. Kinda infurryating how much people seem to hate to stray from the norm.
It's just that the meta is so incredibly efficient with level distribution and gold distribution. At lower elos it really doesn't matter, I guess, cause you're better off playing your best champ. Well, most of the time anyways.
Once people get good at last hitting + harassing, it gets harder and harder to move away from what the meta is. If you take Xin + Taric against my Graves + Sona, it is going to take a monumental effort from you to win that lane.
And Volibear is a surprising support bot, he can really, really make someone pay for positioning poorly.
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SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
Every ranked game I've gone bot... let me correct that, just about every game I've gone bot as volibear, I've won. Kinda infurryating how much people seem to hate to stray from the norm.
It's just that the meta is so incredibly efficient with level distribution and gold distribution. At lower elos it really doesn't matter, I guess, cause you're better off playing your best champ. Well, most of the time anyways.
Once people get good at last hitting + harassing, it gets harder and harder to move away from what the meta is. If you take Xin + Taric against my Graves + Sona, it is going to take a monumental effort from you to win that lane.
And Volibear is a surprising support bot, he can really, really make someone pay for positioning poorly.
That's because Xin/Taric isn't that hot. Xin is not a good champion and Taric doesn't have the right combination of damage+control to make that lane work against Graves/Sona.
I would be sorely tempted to take Ryze/Leona against the lane.
I ran Gangplank support bot in ranked the other day and stole the occasional last hit with Parrrley and whenever my carry went b. His poke is pretty amazing and he trades blows pretty easily with a Philostone. That and with Raise Morale early I had some punishing burst and poke with Corki. I wouldn't recommend it but it is definitely viable, as I had to wait a long time in game to catch up to everyone. Being able to hold a lane yourself is a very good thing as a support though.
That's because Xin/Taric isn't that hot. Xin is not a good champion and Taric doesn't have the right combination of damage+control to make that lane work against Graves/Sona.
I would be sorely tempted to take Ryze/Leona against the lane.
I was just pulling out a bad combo against a standard meta combo.
And ugh, Ryze/Leona would suck to lane against, it would turn into a very passive lane.
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Zen VulgarityWhat a lovely day for teaSecret British ThreadRegistered Userregular
The thing is, the current meta assumes neigh perfect last-hitting. There's absolutely no point whatsoever playing 0cs if your AD carry is only grabbing half the creeps in a wave anyway.
That's also why there's not much point bothering with it at lower levels. People just won't have the mechanical skills to make the most of it, and you'd be better off with two half farmed champs than one half farmed and one 0-farmed one.
The thing is, the current meta assumes neigh perfect last-hitting. There's absolutely no point whatsoever playing 0cs if your AD carry is only grabbing half the creeps in a wave anyway.
I agree completely. I'm about 70-80% right now, missing about 1-2 creeps per wave either because of poor timing or because I was going for a kill.
I play volibear exclusively in the jungle, where I have been pleasantly surprised since his most recent buffs. However, all this talk of Volibear bottom has me intrigued. Do you take tank masteries or damage masteries, and do you rush philo and try to support a low CS bot (ala blitz)? Or, do you fight for CS with your AD and setup soul crushing ganks?
Pacificstar, we must try this!
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KayWhat we need...Is a little bit of PANIC.Registered Userregular
Every ranked game I've gone bot... let me correct that, just about every game I've gone bot as volibear, I've won. Kinda infurryating how much people seem to hate to stray from the norm.
what are you implying
3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
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SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
I mentioned Ryze/Leona only because a common lane is also Graves/Soraka, which is the kind of heavy armor counter nonsense you want to avoid. J4 can start chopping through that once he has a Brut, but you still want to avoid that if possible.
edit: Although seriously just ban Soraka. That leaves Sona on the table as the other typical support and she is a billion times squishier vs a kill lane.
So instead of just posting some half-intelligible garbling, here are some actual thoughts on Ziggs
I think, all around, he is a very solid champion. I played Fizz before the nerf, and I definitely don't think Ziggs is anywhere near that powerful. If anything he feels very similar to the old-school AP Kog'maw builds I used to run, which maximized your E and R damage by building glass cannon AP items and destroying enemies from a distance.
In short, I don't think he is overpowered or anything at all. He certainly has a high skill cap, and he can put out some ridiculous burst damage, but he makes up for this by being STUPIDLY slow and squishy.
If anything needs a nerf, it would be his proximity mines, and even then I think they are alright.
His Q is an all around great poke, and you will either love or hate the bouncing mechanic. Some of the subtleties take a bit of getting used to, but once you get a feel for it it works really well. For example, unlike regular skill shots I need to really aim at my feet if an enemy is right on top of me, instead of past them like I normally do with skill shots. If not, I just miss completely. I also need to remember that it can easily be thrown a great distance if you toss it at almost its maximum range.
His W packs a lot of utility if you can plan ahead. Since the cast range is kind of large, a fun trick to do is use it to interrupt channels, or to pop people into turret range or your mines by throwing it behind them and activating it to send them shooting towards you.
His mines...kind of speak for themselves. People don't seem to realize that while each individual mine doesn't do a whole lot of damage, walking though the whole field will take a big chunk of your life away. Great to prevent ganks, or to initiate ganks. Fun things to do are- throw it on a minion that someone is teleporting to! They will regret it!
His ultimate is why I play him. The range is gigantic, the mana cost is not too bad, and the cooldown is manageable. With my standard build I think I get it down to about 70-ish seconds? It is easy enough to dodge if you are paying attention, and if you dont get caught directly in the middle you won't really suffer that much (75% reduced damage), but if you take the full blast? I had it doing about 1300 damage at one point (I think). If you are mid, you can bomb top and bottom if you see a team fight happening just by moving to either the mid bushes or the wraiths/wolves. You can also use it to save towers from that distance if you absolutely must.
My standard build is: Doran's Ring, Boots1, a few rings (1-2 more), boots 2, Morello's Tome, Rylais, Rabadon's, the rod with spell pen, and whatever vanity item I want in the last slot. I've heard good things about Lichbane, but I haven't used it.
I ran Gangplank support bot in ranked the other day and stole the occasional last hit with Parrrley and whenever my carry went b. His poke is pretty amazing and he trades blows pretty easily with a Philostone. That and with Raise Morale early I had some punishing burst and poke with Corki. I wouldn't recommend it but it is definitely viable, as I had to wait a long time in game to catch up to everyone. Being able to hold a lane yourself is a very good thing as a support though.
I've also had good experiences with support plank. Philo, aegis, damage. Steal occasional last hit with Q, harass like a boss, drop ults erry day.
I play volibear exclusively in the jungle, where I have been pleasantly surprised since his most recent buffs. However, all this talk of Volibear bottom has me intrigued. Do you take tank masteries or damage masteries, and do you rush philo and try to support a low CS bot (ala blitz)? Or, do you fight for CS with your AD and setup soul crushing ganks?
Pacificstar, we must try this!
I'm down, that said, I have dominated every voli support I've ever played against! Also, sorry I wasn't on last night, was my parent's 33rd wedding anniversary
The fuck. I see the viewers count went up to 7, but i can't see the stream in either ffx or chromium. All other streams seem to be working fine;o/
I guess it's one of the mysterious own3d issues.....
I've found Ziggs can use a Rod of Ages pretty well early on. His base damage is high enough that he can delay AP items for a little while, and the added survivability is good because of how squishy he is. An early Catalyst gets you that health and mana so you can take a few more hits and throw a few more bombs.
I'm still playing around with builds but it's going back and forth between Doran's Ring x3 early or Doran's Ring to start -> Catalyst. I like Arch's build as well, as that's what I started off with the first few SR games.
True story: I once 1v1 Phreak as Volibear when he was on Fizz (pre-nerf). W took him from 40% to dead. I insist this is why Volibear was originally nerfed.
I've found Ziggs can use a Rod of Ages pretty well early on. His base damage is high enough that he can delay AP items for a little while, and the added survivability is good because of how squishy he is. An early Catalyst gets you that health and mana so you can take a few more hits and throw a few more bombs.
I'm still playing around with builds but it's going back and forth between Doran's Ring x3 early or Doran's Ring to start -> Catalyst. I like Arch's build as well, as that's what I started off with the first few SR games.
Funny, my first build swapped the Rylai's for a RoA. What I am saying is we swapped places I used to start with a RoA, then moved to getting Rylais, you did the opposite.
An early catalyst into RoA can work pretty well, for some reason I always end up rushing morellos which sets back building a RoA farther than I want to
If I started with a ring and immediately rushed RoA I think it would work better but
I've found Ziggs can use a Rod of Ages pretty well early on. His base damage is high enough that he can delay AP items for a little while, and the added survivability is good because of how squishy he is. An early Catalyst gets you that health and mana so you can take a few more hits and throw a few more bombs.
I'm still playing around with builds but it's going back and forth between Doran's Ring x3 early or Doran's Ring to start -> Catalyst. I like Arch's build as well, as that's what I started off with the first few SR games.
Funny, my first build swapped the Rylai's for a RoA. What I am saying is we swapped places I used to start with a RoA, then moved to getting Rylais, you did the opposite.
An early catalyst into RoA can work pretty well, for some reason I always end up rushing morellos which sets back building a RoA farther than I want to
If I started with a ring and immediately rushed RoA I think it would work better but
Squishy spellcaster in need of HP, Mana and AP? Hell yes, a ROA is a great first big item. depending if you like AA's, get the catalyst, tear, finish ROA, finish AA. Get Funny hat. Still squishy? Rylais. Need CDR + extra Nuke? DFG. People actually bought MR? SpellPen boots&Void Staff. Getting nuked yourself despite HP? Banshees or GA. Have a shitload of AP and a slot to fill? Lichbane.
Same-same on just about every AP-based mage. Ryze is different obviously. Veigar can cheat a bit by skipping the Tear and AA. But seriously, almost every squishy AP caster can be built the same damn way effectively.
My Ziggs build depends on if I'm getting blue or not. Is it weird I have considered running CV on him to steal enemy jungle? Also, I'm considering maining ghost over flash. If you're being chased flash will NOT get his slow ass to safety unless you go over a wall, but satchel can do that anyway. Also, being able to run up and drop mines in front of a runner sounds amusing.
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Reminds me of a pub Cait while I was playing with uber. He picked GP early, but other people fucked up the lane comp, so it was him / her bot. Not ideal, but whatever. "Stop stealing CS GP."
I called her out on that shit though, in a way that wasn't mean, but very clearly expressed she was 100% wrong.
If you want 0 CS support in unranked gameplay, you can play 0 CS support. Hell, for that matter, someone is going to be in for an unfortunate surprise if they think I'm playing support other than Karma in ranked. I'll play whatever role I'm asked to (with the caveat that I'm grabbing top solo if I am first pick, because my win rate top solo is magnificent), but I pick the champ within the role.
Edit: I'm approx. one win away from top 5% in Dominion, which isn't too shabby. I feel like I'm a touch underrated at the moment. I think, esp. with multi-queue with the awesome dudes here, I should be able to hit 1900+.
It's just that the meta is so incredibly efficient with level distribution and gold distribution. At lower elos it really doesn't matter, I guess, cause you're better off playing your best champ. Well, most of the time anyways.
Once people get good at last hitting + harassing, it gets harder and harder to move away from what the meta is. If you take Xin + Taric against my Graves + Sona, it is going to take a monumental effort from you to win that lane.
And Volibear is a surprising support bot, he can really, really make someone pay for positioning poorly.
I would be sorely tempted to take Ryze/Leona against the lane.
I was just pulling out a bad combo against a standard meta combo.
And ugh, Ryze/Leona would suck to lane against, it would turn into a very passive lane.
That's also why there's not much point bothering with it at lower levels. People just won't have the mechanical skills to make the most of it, and you'd be better off with two half farmed champs than one half farmed and one 0-farmed one.
I agree completely. I'm about 70-80% right now, missing about 1-2 creeps per wave either because of poor timing or because I was going for a kill.
Pacificstar, we must try this!
3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
edit: Although seriously just ban Soraka. That leaves Sona on the table as the other typical support and she is a billion times squishier vs a kill lane.
I think, all around, he is a very solid champion. I played Fizz before the nerf, and I definitely don't think Ziggs is anywhere near that powerful. If anything he feels very similar to the old-school AP Kog'maw builds I used to run, which maximized your E and R damage by building glass cannon AP items and destroying enemies from a distance.
In short, I don't think he is overpowered or anything at all. He certainly has a high skill cap, and he can put out some ridiculous burst damage, but he makes up for this by being STUPIDLY slow and squishy.
If anything needs a nerf, it would be his proximity mines, and even then I think they are alright.
His Q is an all around great poke, and you will either love or hate the bouncing mechanic. Some of the subtleties take a bit of getting used to, but once you get a feel for it it works really well. For example, unlike regular skill shots I need to really aim at my feet if an enemy is right on top of me, instead of past them like I normally do with skill shots. If not, I just miss completely. I also need to remember that it can easily be thrown a great distance if you toss it at almost its maximum range.
His W packs a lot of utility if you can plan ahead. Since the cast range is kind of large, a fun trick to do is use it to interrupt channels, or to pop people into turret range or your mines by throwing it behind them and activating it to send them shooting towards you.
His mines...kind of speak for themselves. People don't seem to realize that while each individual mine doesn't do a whole lot of damage, walking though the whole field will take a big chunk of your life away. Great to prevent ganks, or to initiate ganks. Fun things to do are- throw it on a minion that someone is teleporting to! They will regret it!
His ultimate is why I play him. The range is gigantic, the mana cost is not too bad, and the cooldown is manageable. With my standard build I think I get it down to about 70-ish seconds? It is easy enough to dodge if you are paying attention, and if you dont get caught directly in the middle you won't really suffer that much (75% reduced damage), but if you take the full blast? I had it doing about 1300 damage at one point (I think). If you are mid, you can bomb top and bottom if you see a team fight happening just by moving to either the mid bushes or the wraiths/wolves. You can also use it to save towers from that distance if you absolutely must.
My standard build is: Doran's Ring, Boots1, a few rings (1-2 more), boots 2, Morello's Tome, Rylais, Rabadon's, the rod with spell pen, and whatever vanity item I want in the last slot. I've heard good things about Lichbane, but I haven't used it.
Anyway Ziggs number 1
I've also had good experiences with support plank. Philo, aegis, damage. Steal occasional last hit with Q, harass like a boss, drop ults erry day.
I'm down, that said, I have dominated every voli support I've ever played against! Also, sorry I wasn't on last night, was my parent's 33rd wedding anniversary
does anyone else feel a little weird that it was the Ctrl-Alt-Del guy who got to name the new item because he recruited 1000+ people?
On the one hand yayyy more people playing lol
On the other, I feel it is a bit against the spirit of the contest for a public figure to be the one amassing referral points
The thing that replaces Stark's Fervor?
Zeke's Herald or somesuch
Still I'm surprised the name wasn't just an explanation of all it's stats and why they are useful.
Sometimes I feel awesome with Trundle, other times I feel useless
I'm trying to stay cheaper, looking at Sion, GP, Olaf, or Udyr (or can Poppy jungle? she's only 450...)
Leaning towards GP since he's useful just about anywhere
XBL - Foreverender | 3DS FC - 1418 6696 1012 | Steam ID | LoL
It was pretty hilarious, but I don't know how useful it would actually be
You have to be tricky with your mines and lead golem etc around to hit them all
http://www.own3d.tv/live/5043
Not loading. Says live, but black screen.
Though for some reason the right edge is cut off. Can only see part of the minimap frame.
Working for me, try refreshing?
I guess it's one of the mysterious own3d issues.....
It's off centre for me, I can't see your minimap or k/d/a.
EDIT: The screen is offset, but that is because of the streamer's setup... so nothing you can do about it.
YOU BETTA IMPRESS ME SON
IM WRITING A REPORT CARD
also sound slightly stuttering
I've found Ziggs can use a Rod of Ages pretty well early on. His base damage is high enough that he can delay AP items for a little while, and the added survivability is good because of how squishy he is. An early Catalyst gets you that health and mana so you can take a few more hits and throw a few more bombs.
I'm still playing around with builds but it's going back and forth between Doran's Ring x3 early or Doran's Ring to start -> Catalyst. I like Arch's build as well, as that's what I started off with the first few SR games.
True story: I once 1v1 Phreak as Volibear when he was on Fizz (pre-nerf). W took him from 40% to dead. I insist this is why Volibear was originally nerfed.
did redoing the capture area fix the offset?
Funny, my first build swapped the Rylai's for a RoA. What I am saying is we swapped places I used to start with a RoA, then moved to getting Rylais, you did the opposite.
An early catalyst into RoA can work pretty well, for some reason I always end up rushing morellos which sets back building a RoA farther than I want to
If I started with a ring and immediately rushed RoA I think it would work better but
Yeah screen is fixed now
XBL - Foreverender | 3DS FC - 1418 6696 1012 | Steam ID | LoL
Squishy spellcaster in need of HP, Mana and AP? Hell yes, a ROA is a great first big item. depending if you like AA's, get the catalyst, tear, finish ROA, finish AA. Get Funny hat. Still squishy? Rylais. Need CDR + extra Nuke? DFG. People actually bought MR? SpellPen boots&Void Staff. Getting nuked yourself despite HP? Banshees or GA. Have a shitload of AP and a slot to fill? Lichbane.
Same-same on just about every AP-based mage. Ryze is different obviously. Veigar can cheat a bit by skipping the Tear and AA. But seriously, almost every squishy AP caster can be built the same damn way effectively.
Joe's Stream.
I like how that Amumu is on the other team now and is still whining about his 'bad' team.
Edit - I can't log in to see his recent record, but I bet he was carried to this elo.