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Should games feature characters that are bisexual/homosexual?

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Posts

  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    MrMister wrote: »
    A lack of representation in popular culture is something that minorities generally have to deal with, and which apparently everyone is totally cool with.
    I feel scientists are under-represented as socially capable human beings.

    This topic is retardedly general and being used as a platform for which people to have a good old rant about popular issue so they can make it clear to everyone who incredibly liberal they are in their thought, rather then actually discuss the issues which give rise to the perceived problem.

    Should games feature characters that are bisexual/homosexual? Yes. There is no reason for them not to.

    This doesn't actually mean any given story is going to be improved by specifically including references to which characters are gay, much like it wouldn't be improved by specifically noting everyone's detailed skin color etc. etc. etc. if it's not relevant information. And unless it actually goes out of the way to say "he is heterosexual white male" then I agree with Drez - it is the readers fault for assuming as such, not the author's.

    electricitylikesme on
  • NavocNavoc Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    This doesn't actually mean any given story is going to be improved by specifically including references to which characters are gay, much like it wouldn't be improved by specifically noting everyone's detailed skin color etc. etc. etc. if it's not relevant information. And unless it actually goes out of the way to say "he is heterosexual white male" then I agree with Drez - it is the readers fault for assuming as such, not the author's.

    This obviously doesn't apply to games or movies, however, where it is abundantly clear when the entire cast is white.

    I think the real issue is that when games do reference sexuality (and most games do, whether it is a romantic interest for a main character or a reference to an NPC's significant other, or whatever), it is overwhelmingly heterosexual, to a huge margin. I may be misunderstanding you, and I apologize if I am, but you seem to be arguing against people demanding games include references to homosexuality, something no one in this thread is doing. People aren't demanding inclusion where it doesn't belong, just that when the topic of sexuality is brought up (and it is brought up quite often in games, in whatever form), that it not exclude the reality of alternate sexualities.

    Navoc on
  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Navoc wrote: »
    This doesn't actually mean any given story is going to be improved by specifically including references to which characters are gay, much like it wouldn't be improved by specifically noting everyone's detailed skin color etc. etc. etc. if it's not relevant information. And unless it actually goes out of the way to say "he is heterosexual white male" then I agree with Drez - it is the readers fault for assuming as such, not the author's.

    This obviously doesn't apply to games or movies, however, where it is abundantly clear when the entire cast is white.

    I think the real issue is that when games do reference sexuality (and most games do, whether it is a romantic interest for a main character or a reference to an NPC's significant other, or whatever), it is overwhelmingly heterosexual, to a huge margin. I may be misunderstanding you, and I apologize if I am, but you seem to be arguing against people demanding games include references to homosexuality, something no one in this thread is doing. People aren't demanding inclusion where it doesn't belong, just that when the topic of sexuality is brought up (and it is brought up quite often in games, in whatever form), that it not exclude the reality of alternate sexualities.
    And as far as I'm concerned in all stories worth telling the issue tends to be adequately dealt with, and is increasingly dealt with as more social progress is made which is why I don't understand what criticism people are trying to make.

    The good stories do include a rather broad spectrum of society, but like has been said - you don't bring up unnecessary information. In books this can be rather a lot of detail, in games you fill out physical parameters but I'm struggling to see how when I walk into the Lower Seattle bar I should expect to see obviously homosexual couples - because the context would make it rather out of place with what the rest of the design of that world is trying to show, whereas in Club Vox it does fit and it is important to painting out the picture of what the WTO enclaves are. Another example that comes to mind.

    It's why the generalities in this thread are pissing me off - it's feeling too much like "5 minutes hate" except it's even more directionless.

    EDIT: Also you've done it again - you've said "this doesn't apply when the entire cast is white" - and I'm very much "huh? Who does this these days?" - we're crossing a lot of categories of art here mostly since I'm more versed in writing, but you seem to be assuming that when I say "xxx is not relevant information necessarily" that I'm implying "also, if you were to cast this character they would be a white heterosexual male because anything else is a detail"

    electricitylikesme on
  • NavocNavoc Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    The good stories do include a rather broad spectrum of society, but like has been said - you don't bring up unnecessary information. In books this can be rather a lot of detail, in games you fill out physical parameters but I'm struggling to see how when I walk into the Lower Seattle bar I should expect to see obviously homosexual couples - because the context would make it rather out of place with what the rest of the design of that world is trying to show, whereas in Club Vox it does fit and it is important to painting out the picture of what the WTO enclaves are.

    I don't really understand what you mean here, so elaboration would be greatly appreciated. Why wouldn't you expect to find homosexual couples in a bar? How is it "out of context"? I just really don't see how, the great many times sexuality is referenced in games, it should always be heterosexual unless it fits some narrow definition in which it "makes sense." Basically, I don't understand this context you're speaking of. Sorry if I'm being dense.
    EDIT: Also you've done it again - you've said "this doesn't apply when the entire cast is white" - and I'm very much "huh? Who does this these days?" - we're crossing a lot of categories of art here mostly since I'm more versed in writing, but you seem to be assuming that when I say "xxx is not relevant information necessarily" that I'm implying "also, if you were to cast this character they would be a white heterosexual male because anything else is a detail"

    That was actually more in response to the whole discussion relating to minorities featuring an under-representation in media. You mentioned that often the race/sexuality of a character is not described, and so it is the reader who assumes these details, and not the writer who describes them. I was just (perhaps pointlessly) mentioning that this doesn't really apply to games, as it is a more visual medium.

    Navoc on
  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Navoc wrote: »
    The good stories do include a rather broad spectrum of society, but like has been said - you don't bring up unnecessary information. In books this can be rather a lot of detail, in games you fill out physical parameters but I'm struggling to see how when I walk into the Lower Seattle bar I should expect to see obviously homosexual couples - because the context would make it rather out of place with what the rest of the design of that world is trying to show, whereas in Club Vox it does fit and it is important to painting out the picture of what the WTO enclaves are.

    I don't really understand what you mean here, so elaboration would be greatly appreciated. Why wouldn't you expect to find homosexual couples in a bar? How is it "out of context"? I just really don't see how, the great many times sexuality is referenced in games, it should always be heterosexual unless it fits some narrow definition in which it "makes sense." Basically, I don't understand this context you're speaking of. Sorry if I'm being dense.
    DX:IW reference. Lower Seattle is essentially the slums and the bar in question somewhat redneck. The world is based on ours, so once again, it would be surprising to encounter an overtly gay couple in what is essentially a den of thieves - overt being the operative word there.

    electricitylikesme on
  • NavocNavoc Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    DX:IW reference. Lower Seattle is essentially the slums and the bar in question somewhat redneck. The world is based on ours, so once again, it would be surprising to encounter an overtly gay couple in what is essentially a den of thieves - overt being the operative word there.

    Ah, I've never played Deus Ex, so I missed the reference; I think I understand your post better now. Still though, just because there are situations where you wouldn't expect to find overt homosexual relationships doesn't really seem to be a response to what people in this thread are arguing.

    I think that's the primary misunderstanding here. You seem to be arguing against mandatory references to homosexuality, which no one is arguing for. No one has said that "in all situations x, there should be a reference to alternate sexualities." People seem to just be mentioning that, of all the huge number of references to sexuality, both overt and subtle, that it is not reflective of reality for nearly all of them to be heterosexual (to a vast degree).

    I don't think you actually disagree with that sentiment, which is what confuses me. Someone says that games shouldn't avoid references to alternate sexualities, and someone responds with "maybe the characters are gay and you just don't know, it's simply not mentioned." This completely ignores the point. There are a huge number of times where sexuality is blatantly brought up, and in very, very few of these instances is the sexualty anything but hetero. This is simply not representative of reality.

    Navoc on
  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    I'll argue for it!

    Every videogame made should have at least one clearly identified fudgepacker :)

    Even Tetris. Especially Tetris.

    MuddBudd on
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  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited July 2007
    Well, if you rotate those L-shaped pieces the right way, they DO look like a cock and balls.

    shryke on
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