Drive? Um...I think you're missing the point. Or stretching it. Or maybe somehow both.
Uh the director himself has said that Drive was sorta his take on the superhero genre.
Well, that's fine I guess, but I don't think he's right about it. I understand that might be his intent, but...no.
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KalTorakOne way or another, they all end up inthe Undercity.Registered Userregular
It felt like a version of a superhero story to me when I watched it. Guy has a secret identity, helps people with almost superhuman skill, mentor character, strict moral code - shit, he even had a costume/emblem.
Drive? Um...I think you're missing the point. Or stretching it. Or maybe somehow both.
Uh the director himself has said that Drive was sorta his take on the superhero genre.
Haven't seen Drive yet but from what I've gathered it's closer an action movie or noir then a super-hero film. Then again, this is the guy who is obsessed with casting Christina Hendricks for Wonder Woman on nothing more than she's Christina Hendricks.
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
Drive? Um...I think you're missing the point. Or stretching it. Or maybe somehow both.
Uh the director himself has said that Drive was sorta his take on the superhero genre.
Haven't seen Drive yet but from what I've gathered it's closer an action movie or noir then a super-hero film. Then again, this is the guy who is obsessed with casting Christina Hendricks for Wonder Woman on nothing more than she's Christina Hendricks.
There is frankly a lot of stuff in there. I would object to naming it any of those things.
Captain America was totally decent, but flubbed the character arc by finishing it way too soon. Spoiler'd for that:
Once the Cap runs that first mission, he's achieved everything he wanted: to win the admiration of his fellows by serving his country in the war. Unfortunately, there's still a whole villain and plot to get through, and the ensuing montage/scenes were completely devoid of drama or interest, despite lots of whizzbang explosions, guns, trains, etc. Because Captain America is fucking invincible, dipshits--if you want me to care about him punching something, I have to care about how it makes him feel, not whether or not he'll succeed or how "cool" he looks throwing the punch.
Luckily for the Avengers, Captain America gets a new character at the end of the movie and then suddenly things are interesting again.
Cap wasn't invincible in the film. Sure, he was a major badass but he didn't waltz through the movie without a scratch. He almost got killed in the finale by a Hydra mook until Peggy saved his ass at the last minute in Red Skull's base. He almost got killed in his battle on the train, as well. IIRC he needed Bucky's help to kill the Hydra flame-throwing mook. Neither were easy fights for him.
Captain America was totally decent, but flubbed the character arc by finishing it way too soon. Spoiler'd for that:
Once the Cap runs that first mission, he's achieved everything he wanted: to win the admiration of his fellows by serving his country in the war. Unfortunately, there's still a whole villain and plot to get through, and the ensuing montage/scenes were completely devoid of drama or interest, despite lots of whizzbang explosions, guns, trains, etc. Because Captain America is fucking invincible, dipshits--if you want me to care about him punching something, I have to care about how it makes him feel, not whether or not he'll succeed or how "cool" he looks throwing the punch.
Luckily for the Avengers, Captain America gets a new character at the end of the movie and then suddenly things are interesting again.
Cap wasn't invincible in the film. Sure, he was a major badass but he didn't waltz through the movie without a scratch. He almost got killed in the finale by a Hydra mook until Peggy saved his ass at the last minute in Red Skull's base. He almost got killed in his battle on the train, as well. IIRC he needed Bucky's help to kill the Hydra flame-throwing mook. Neither were easy fights for him.
While I disagree with the overall statement of quality(and especially putting FC above it. Its a fine picture but just as flawed) that is a problem with the movie. I would have dug an extra half hour of movie to increase the personal rivalry between Steve and the Skull.
On the other hand the most likely plot lines would have been "Steve becomes arrogant and an asshole after getting his powers, learns humility" or "Steve's friend becomes jealousy of Steves success: which would be terrible.
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Linespider5ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGERRegistered Userregular
Yeah, Captain America and the Red Skull didn't really get a chance to develop their enmity towards one another. They really deserved to clash a few times without either being able to declare a satisfying victory over the other, so they can become more and more irritated by eachother and how their separate motivations keep throwing them in eachothers' way.
Up until the end on the plane, Red Skull was almost more, "Hello Captain, I'm awesome and you're not and I have better things to do right now excuse me."
Yeah, Captain America and the Red Skull didn't really get a chance to develop their enmity towards one another. They really deserved to clash a few times without either being able to declare a satisfying victory over the other, so they can become more and more irritated by eachother and how their separate motivations keep throwing them in eachothers' way.
Up until the end on the plane, Red Skull was almost more, "Hello Captain, I'm awesome and you're not and I have better things to do right now excuse me."
Well The Skull had that whole "How stupid you wear a flag the two of use has outgrown" thing. It was cool but came out of no where.
Captain America was totally decent, but flubbed the character arc by finishing it way too soon. Spoiler'd for that:
Once the Cap runs that first mission, he's achieved everything he wanted: to win the admiration of his fellows by serving his country in the war. Unfortunately, there's still a whole villain and plot to get through, and the ensuing montage/scenes were completely devoid of drama or interest, despite lots of whizzbang explosions, guns, trains, etc. Because Captain America is fucking invincible, dipshits--if you want me to care about him punching something, I have to care about how it makes him feel, not whether or not he'll succeed or how "cool" he looks throwing the punch.
Luckily for the Avengers, Captain America gets a new character at the end of the movie and then suddenly things are interesting again.
Cap wasn't invincible in the film. Sure, he was a major badass but he didn't waltz through the movie without a scratch. He almost got killed in the finale by a Hydra mook until Peggy saved his ass at the last minute in Red Skull's base. He almost got killed in his battle on the train, as well. IIRC he needed Bucky's help to kill the Hydra flame-throwing mook. Neither were easy fights for him.
While I disagree with the overall statement of quality(and especially putting FC above it. Its a fine picture but just as flawed) that is a problem with the movie. I would have dug an extra half hour of movie to increase the personal rivalry between Steve and the Skull.
On the other hand the most likely plot lines would have been "Steve becomes arrogant and an asshole after getting his powers, learns humility" or "Steve's friend becomes jealousy of Steves success: which would be terrible.
I agree. A longer rivalry between Red Skull and Cap is a good idea. That said, I don't think it hurts the film too much without it.
They were coming close to treading on Bucky getting jealous with Cap when Peggy ignored him IMO. I'm glad they dropped that and power corrupting him, too.
Captain America was totally decent, but flubbed the character arc by finishing it way too soon. Spoiler'd for that:
Once the Cap runs that first mission, he's achieved everything he wanted: to win the admiration of his fellows by serving his country in the war. Unfortunately, there's still a whole villain and plot to get through, and the ensuing montage/scenes were completely devoid of drama or interest, despite lots of whizzbang explosions, guns, trains, etc. Because Captain America is fucking invincible, dipshits--if you want me to care about him punching something, I have to care about how it makes him feel, not whether or not he'll succeed or how "cool" he looks throwing the punch.
Luckily for the Avengers, Captain America gets a new character at the end of the movie and then suddenly things are interesting again.
Cap wasn't invincible in the film. Sure, he was a major badass but he didn't waltz through the movie without a scratch. He almost got killed in the finale by a Hydra mook until Peggy saved his ass at the last minute in Red Skull's base. He almost got killed in his battle on the train, as well. IIRC he needed Bucky's help to kill the Hydra flame-throwing mook. Neither were easy fights for him.
While I disagree with the overall statement of quality(and especially putting FC above it. Its a fine picture but just as flawed) that is a problem with the movie. I would have dug an extra half hour of movie to increase the personal rivalry between Steve and the Skull.
On the other hand the most likely plot lines would have been "Steve becomes arrogant and an asshole after getting his powers, learns humility" or "Steve's friend becomes jealousy of Steves success: which would be terrible.
I agree. A longer rivalry between Red Skull and Cap is a good idea. That said, I don't think it hurts the film too much without it.
They were coming close to treading on Bucky getting jealous with Cap when Peggy ignored him IMO. I'm glad they dropped that and power corrupting him, too.
Actually I really liked that moment because Bucky ends up backing him completely. He's no longer the top dog in there relationship but Steve is his friend so he's happy for him. Steve ability doesn't diminish him.
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AstaerethIn the belly of the beastRegistered Userregular
Captain America was totally decent, but flubbed the character arc by finishing it way too soon. Spoiler'd for that:
Once the Cap runs that first mission, he's achieved everything he wanted: to win the admiration of his fellows by serving his country in the war. Unfortunately, there's still a whole villain and plot to get through, and the ensuing montage/scenes were completely devoid of drama or interest, despite lots of whizzbang explosions, guns, trains, etc. Because Captain America is fucking invincible, dipshits--if you want me to care about him punching something, I have to care about how it makes him feel, not whether or not he'll succeed or how "cool" he looks throwing the punch.
Luckily for the Avengers, Captain America gets a new character at the end of the movie and then suddenly things are interesting again.
Cap wasn't invincible in the film. Sure, he was a major badass but he didn't waltz through the movie without a scratch. He almost got killed in the finale by a Hydra mook until Peggy saved his ass at the last minute in Red Skull's base. He almost got killed in his battle on the train, as well. IIRC he needed Bucky's help to kill the Hydra flame-throwing mook. Neither were easy fights for him.
I had typed up a response to this before I realized that, like you, I was missing the point, which is not that the Captain is literally invincible (although I don't recall the movie proving otherwise) or that his fights weren't ever in doubt (although I think the worst thing that happens to him there is being slightly delayed, other than Bucky taking a header off the train). The point is that the story tells us Captain America must fight Red Skull because it is so--because Good must triumph over Evil and all that ideal crap that's the thematic equivalent of Harry Potter wizards throwing CG lasers at each other--and for no other reason. As far as I can tell, during those sequences, Cap fights so that the movie will end when he's done. There's nothing personal to hold onto--he literally has no personal stake in what's going on, merely a box marked "Good Guys" he's been told by the script to inhabit.
These are all ways of saying the same thing, something people pick up on when they complain that the hero and the villain have no personal enmity beyond "you work for this side, and I work for that side": up until this point in the film it is a story about a guy, and after that point in the film it is a video game about abstractions. They might as well be fighting over the high score.
Captain America doesn't become a movie again until he's forced to sacrifice his life and any possibility of losing his virginity--an interesting and dramatic decision that is made by a character, not an action-figure. Not because he's no longer winning, but because he once again remembers that he has a goal, something he has a personal stake in. A character without drive is not a character, and a movie without a character is boring as fuck.
Captain America bored the hell out of me. The lack of any rivalry whatsoever between Cap and Red Skull was lame.
I didn't like that the movie just kind of assumes you will like CA just because he was a little weenie with a heart of gold. We all knew he was going to get steroids and get huge, and that's really what everyone was waiting for. It would be interesting to see what a more unconventional (though it's the norm now) narrative would've looked like, where we got to see things through flashback. Not saying it's better, but it could be.
I'm also genuinely surprised that people in this thread know the names of the other characters in this movie. Were they in the comics or something?
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RhalloTonnyOf the BrownlandsRegistered Userregular
Opinions follow, etc,
I thought Captain America was absolutely dreadful, far worse than Thor. Cap had
Period drama gone wrong,
Every WW2 cliche unrelentingly shoved in,
Creepy CG at the beginning, lazy use of CG later (windows, a tank, simple stuff),
Bad pacing,
and near the end it looked like all the members of Hydra were playing with GI Joe and Halo weapons.
!
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Linespider5ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGERRegistered Userregular
I do hate the 'secret army that's from fucking nowhere' but it kind of makes sense. Red Skull was all about out-Nazi-ing the Nazis and being the supervillain of the Third Reich. As in, the Third Reich considers him a danger to the public at large. That's my reading of the movie, anyway. He supered up his troops and gave them cooler toys and all that.
Would've been cooler to see some buildup on Red Skull, but, then again, this is a movie about Captain America.
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AManFromEarthLet's get to twerk!The King in the SwampRegistered Userregular
They originally were Nazis. When Red Skull got the
Tesseract
he had enough power and influence to make Hydra independent.
True, I think I just would've preferred it to be more concrete or something. I think instead of the montage we should've gotten a couple scenes of Hydra starting to do Hydray things. Or both, cause I liked the montage and the song.
They originally were Nazis. When Red Skull got the
Tesseract
he had enough power and influence to make Hydra independent.
True, I think I just would've preferred it to be more concrete or something. I think instead of the montage we should've gotten a couple scenes of Hydra starting to do Hydray things. Or both, cause I liked the montage and the song.
That's a good criticism. The movie would have been better had they focussed on the inner workings of Hydra to contrast it with the SSR. Except for Red Skull and Zola Hydra being only faceless, nameless thugs was a misstep IMO.
Harry Dresden on
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AManFromEarthLet's get to twerk!The King in the SwampRegistered Userregular
Indeed, it made you not care about the movie's EPIC BATTLE until you get to the plane. Which was mentioned up above somewhere.
Edit: The person who uploaded the video points out: "...everything [is] green. The clothes, walls, olive's poop, olive's name." I didn't notice that either!
It's taken so long to get John Carter made. I really hope it's an exciting and enjoyable film. But at the same time, I look at how they handled Prince of Persia...
I thought Captain America was absolutely dreadful, far worse than Thor. Cap had
Period drama gone wrong,
Every WW2 cliche unrelentingly shoved in,
Creepy CG at the beginning, lazy use of CG later (windows, a tank, simple stuff),
Bad pacing,
and near the end it looked like all the members of Hydra were playing with GI Joe and Halo weapons.
The general consensus on Captain America was that it was great for comic book fans, mediocre/boring for everyone else. Thor got a much better reaction/reception from what I saw and experienced.
The Internet community represents such a small percentage when it comes to the average moviegoer.
reposting this from the chat thread because I think it's both unfortunate and true:
It's not that simple. Disney has done nothing to set up the brand for the public to latch on to before the film is released. They should have spent years having a tv show based on the books on the air, live action or cartoon, to educate people on its premise and build up its fanbase. They have the resources to do this. It's also an obscure property very few people know or cared about. It doesn't have any A-listers, either.
Harry Dresden on
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Linespider5ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGERRegistered Userregular
reposting this from the chat thread because I think it's both unfortunate and true:
It's not that simple. Disney has done nothing to set up the brand for the public to latch on to before the film is released. They should have spent years having a tv show based on the books on the air, live action or cartoon, to educate people on its premise and build up its fanbase. They have the resources to do this. It's also an obscure property very few people know or cared about. It doesn't have any A-listers, either.
Well, maybe it'll become this beloved thing fifteen years from now and enjoy some kind of renaissance.
Eh, who am I kidding. Nobody makes discoveries anymore.
reposting this from the chat thread because I think it's both unfortunate and true:
It's not that simple. Disney has done nothing to set up the brand for the public to latch on to before the film is released. They should have spent years having a tv show based on the books on the air, live action or cartoon, to educate people on its premise and build up its fanbase. They have the resources to do this. It's also an obscure property very few people know or cared about. It doesn't have any A-listers, either.
So you can't just release a new property for film?
KalTorakOne way or another, they all end up inthe Undercity.Registered Userregular
The old IP/sequel/remake distinction is a bit weird in this case, since most of the time sequels/remakes/old IP films are made as a safe bet during a weak economy and the studios can rely on a ready-made audience.
But with John Carter, even though he is pre-existing IP, they aren't treating him like one - not a hint of "Remember John Carter? HE'S BACK! ON THE BIG SCREEN!" Heck they won't even call him "John Carter of Mars" in the title. Essentially they're forfeiting any of the boost they could get from JC being an existing IP, but they're also not giving it the marketing promotion that they would give a fully-fledged original IP.
reposting this from the chat thread because I think it's both unfortunate and true:
It's not that simple. Disney has done nothing to set up the brand for the public to latch on to before the film is released. They should have spent years having a tv show based on the books on the air, live action or cartoon, to educate people on its premise and build up its fanbase. They have the resources to do this. It's also an obscure property very few people know or cared about. It doesn't have any A-listers, either.
So you can't just release a new property for film?
You can, but if you're risking a huge budget like they have it's better to lower the chances of it failing in any way they can. Marvel figured this out by having a cartoon released years before the film is released, not just tying it into the other films.
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TexiKenDammit!That fish really got me!Registered Userregular
The old IP/sequel/remake distinction is a bit weird in this case, since most of the time sequels/remakes/old IP films are made as a safe bet during a weak economy and the studios can rely on a ready-made audience.
But with John Carter, even though he is pre-existing IP, they aren't treating him like one - not a hint of "Remember John Carter? HE'S BACK! ON THE BIG SCREEN!" Heck they won't even call him "John Carter of Mars" in the title. Essentially they're forfeiting any of the boost they could get from JC being an existing IP, but they're also not giving it the marketing promotion that they would give a fully-fledged original IP.
It's certainly better than Pirates 8, Still Don't Let Me In, Transformers: Red Side of Mars, or Girl with the Draconic Skin Art. I'm mostly just objecting to him claiming it's something NEW.
That said, I agree that the way they're marketing it now makes it seems like it's just an Avatar rip-off. If I hadn't previously heard of John Carter of Mars, I'd think that too.
oh cool, Indiana Jones is finally making it to blu-ray. the collection comes out in the fall.
Hopefully not in the same crappy packaging that Back to the Future came in.
Ugh, I think I complain about that packaging every chance I get. My packaging design class my junior year went on a trip to target and the professor had us find examples of good packaging and bad packaging. the back to the future box set was the first thing I thought of as bad.
Posts
Well, that's fine I guess, but I don't think he's right about it. I understand that might be his intent, but...no.
Haven't seen Drive yet but from what I've gathered it's closer an action movie or noir then a super-hero film. Then again, this is the guy who is obsessed with casting Christina Hendricks for Wonder Woman on nothing more than she's Christina Hendricks.
real human being
*synthesizer*
There is frankly a lot of stuff in there. I would object to naming it any of those things.
While I disagree with the overall statement of quality(and especially putting FC above it. Its a fine picture but just as flawed) that is a problem with the movie. I would have dug an extra half hour of movie to increase the personal rivalry between Steve and the Skull.
On the other hand the most likely plot lines would have been "Steve becomes arrogant and an asshole after getting his powers, learns humility" or "Steve's friend becomes jealousy of Steves success: which would be terrible.
Up until the end on the plane, Red Skull was almost more, "Hello Captain, I'm awesome and you're not and I have better things to do right now excuse me."
Well The Skull had that whole "How stupid you wear a flag the two of use has outgrown" thing. It was cool but came out of no where.
I agree. A longer rivalry between Red Skull and Cap is a good idea. That said, I don't think it hurts the film too much without it.
They were coming close to treading on Bucky getting jealous with Cap when Peggy ignored him IMO. I'm glad they dropped that and power corrupting him, too.
Actually I really liked that moment because Bucky ends up backing him completely. He's no longer the top dog in there relationship but Steve is his friend so he's happy for him. Steve ability doesn't diminish him.
These are all ways of saying the same thing, something people pick up on when they complain that the hero and the villain have no personal enmity beyond "you work for this side, and I work for that side": up until this point in the film it is a story about a guy, and after that point in the film it is a video game about abstractions. They might as well be fighting over the high score.
Captain America doesn't become a movie again until he's forced to sacrifice his life and any possibility of losing his virginity--an interesting and dramatic decision that is made by a character, not an action-figure. Not because he's no longer winning, but because he once again remembers that he has a goal, something he has a personal stake in. A character without drive is not a character, and a movie without a character is boring as fuck.
http://www.salon.com/2012/02/29/the_mpaas_bully_outrage/
yeah the "one fuck" rule is just getting more ridiculous every day.
I didn't like that the movie just kind of assumes you will like CA just because he was a little weenie with a heart of gold. We all knew he was going to get steroids and get huge, and that's really what everyone was waiting for. It would be interesting to see what a more unconventional (though it's the norm now) narrative would've looked like, where we got to see things through flashback. Not saying it's better, but it could be.
I'm also genuinely surprised that people in this thread know the names of the other characters in this movie. Were they in the comics or something?
I thought Captain America was absolutely dreadful, far worse than Thor. Cap had
Period drama gone wrong,
Every WW2 cliche unrelentingly shoved in,
Creepy CG at the beginning, lazy use of CG later (windows, a tank, simple stuff),
Bad pacing,
and near the end it looked like all the members of Hydra were playing with GI Joe and Halo weapons.
Would've been cooler to see some buildup on Red Skull, but, then again, this is a movie about Captain America.
I would've rather them just be Nazis, honestly.
Still liked the film though.
They originally were Nazis. When Red Skull got the
True, I think I just would've preferred it to be more concrete or something. I think instead of the montage we should've gotten a couple scenes of Hydra starting to do Hydray things. Or both, cause I liked the montage and the song.
That's a good criticism. The movie would have been better had they focussed on the inner workings of Hydra to contrast it with the SSR. Except for Red Skull and Zola Hydra being only faceless, nameless thugs was a misstep IMO.
I didn't notice these timejumps at all!
Edit: The person who uploaded the video points out: "...everything [is] green. The clothes, walls, olive's poop, olive's name." I didn't notice that either!
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
The general consensus on Captain America was that it was great for comic book fans, mediocre/boring for everyone else. Thor got a much better reaction/reception from what I saw and experienced.
The Internet community represents such a small percentage when it comes to the average moviegoer.
But John Carter ISN'T new. He's based on a book.
There's a third thing that I've heard a lot of people complain about: Adaptations of existing IP.
There's a third thing that I've heard a lot of people complain about: Adaptations of existing IP.
[/quote]
I don't know if I can blame the press that much when its own studio doesn't know what the hell to do with it, but I dig his annoyance.
It's not that simple. Disney has done nothing to set up the brand for the public to latch on to before the film is released. They should have spent years having a tv show based on the books on the air, live action or cartoon, to educate people on its premise and build up its fanbase. They have the resources to do this. It's also an obscure property very few people know or cared about. It doesn't have any A-listers, either.
Well, maybe it'll become this beloved thing fifteen years from now and enjoy some kind of renaissance.
Eh, who am I kidding. Nobody makes discoveries anymore.
So you can't just release a new property for film?
But with John Carter, even though he is pre-existing IP, they aren't treating him like one - not a hint of "Remember John Carter? HE'S BACK! ON THE BIG SCREEN!" Heck they won't even call him "John Carter of Mars" in the title. Essentially they're forfeiting any of the boost they could get from JC being an existing IP, but they're also not giving it the marketing promotion that they would give a fully-fledged original IP.
You can, but if you're risking a huge budget like they have it's better to lower the chances of it failing in any way they can. Marvel figured this out by having a cartoon released years before the film is released, not just tying it into the other films.
Hopefully not in the same crappy packaging that Back to the Future came in.
It's certainly better than Pirates 8, Still Don't Let Me In, Transformers: Red Side of Mars, or Girl with the Draconic Skin Art. I'm mostly just objecting to him claiming it's something NEW.
That said, I agree that the way they're marketing it now makes it seems like it's just an Avatar rip-off. If I hadn't previously heard of John Carter of Mars, I'd think that too.
Ugh, I think I complain about that packaging every chance I get. My packaging design class my junior year went on a trip to target and the professor had us find examples of good packaging and bad packaging. the back to the future box set was the first thing I thought of as bad.