Really Guardian tank(the one I chose first as a main of course) is the only tank spec that is garbage in pvp, even in dps gear. A tank specced shadow or vanguard(or their mirrors of course) are very good. To the guy saying Powertech is in a world of their own in pvp as tank, I'd argue that shadow/assassin tank specs are more potent in pvp than they are, even though they're both strong.
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ArrynAsk not the InnkeeperFor destiny is thy name!Registered Userregular
To the guy saying Powertech is in a world of their own in pvp as tank, I'd argue that shadow/assassin tank specs are more potent in pvp than they are, even though they're both strong.
Maybe, I guess I wouldn't know as I don't think I've ever run into an Assassin 1 v 1. Pretty much every Inquis I've ever fought has been a Sorc of either the dps or healy variety. Dunno why that is, maybe just my server.
My main character is a tank assassin and I feel VERY strong in pvp. That said, I ran into a powertech tank the other day who was geared and I was REALLY jealous that they get both charge and pull.
My experince with Assassins (well, Shadows really) as a Tank spec Powertank is kinda similar to Marauders/Sentinels: If I pull every trick I have (especially the Tank-specfic Oil Slick/Smoke Grenade, to lower thier melee/ranged accuracy by 20%), I usually can beat them, but if they get too many Crits/Procs/Berserks/Zens, then I'm the one who bites it.
...and Sniper/Gunslingers in my experince are like syphilis; you deal with it as soon as it shows up, there isn't too much of a problem, but wait too long, and you start losing body parts in a frightening manner, so most I see get stunned, then grappled to where I'm at, and then set on fire.
In any case @Joshmvii, I saw that he said he was a Powertech tank, so I was just saying what ACs that I found beatable as a Powertech tank because of, (or perhaps, in spite of) having tank gear with def/shield/absorb... and that was still 3 of 8, so I wasn't disagreeing with you so much as pointing out the exceptions while agreeing with you in a different way
So I stepped away from TOR for a bout month, just dealing with RL stuff...how are Juggs/Guards working out as tanks? I know there was some concern early one that we may end up the least viable of the tank classes, though the evidence for that never really convinced me either way. How are things working out in practice?
ArrynAsk not the InnkeeperFor destiny is thy name!Registered Userregular
I can only speak from personal experience, but there's good and bad aspects. We're fine on the survivability front, and we're generally fine on the single-target threat front, but aoe threat is still pretty lame compared to shadows or vanguards. So far I've tanked every boss through HM ops (no NiM Ops experience yet) with no complaints from healers or dps.
AoE threat isn't that important in Ops though, except on a few fights, mostly trash pulls.
Guardian tanks outshine the other two in terms of survivability cooldowns, and will generally have higher chance to straight defend attacks due to the talents we have, but having played all three, I find them the least fun to tank with. AoE is just a joke, since both of the other tank classes dominate us in this area, and the single target rotation doesn't have any of the fun stuff the other tanks have(harnessed shadows healing yourself and hitting hard, cooldown being reset on project/stock strike, etc.)
I honestly get the feeling that Guardian tanking is going to get a major overhaul in the future, but for now, I just swapped to Vigilance DPS which I really enjoy and I just throw on my tank gear and tank the one fight in the raid content that needs 2(subjectively)
Guardian/juggernaut tanks are super frustrating in HMs, as a healer.
I ran HM foundry with one the other day, and literally as soon as I healed on some of the pulls 2-3 mobs would be eating me. It's possible the guy just wasn't very good, but the difference between jedis and even semi-competent powertechs is pretty stark. I hardly ever see assassin tanks.
That shouldn't happen on any pull 5 or less mobs as a Guardian, unless maybe they're all spread out and not being CCed. That being said, a Powertech/Vanguard has it a million times easier, because not only do they have 4 AoEs, they have harpoon to pull dudes into that AoE, and hammer shot to hit a ranged guy to keep healing agro off, where Guardian has only saber throw for a ranged option.
Tanking on a Guardian right now is basically TBC Warrior tanking, down to analogues of the same abilities. AoE is an utter joke while the other tanks have a cakewalk of it, and it needs work in the single target area too. I'm sure the first expansion will get a copy of sword and board and shockwave and all will be well, but until then... =)
Guardian/juggernaut tanks are super frustrating in HMs, as a healer.
I ran HM foundry with one the other day, and literally as soon as I healed on some of the pulls 2-3 mobs would be eating me. It's possible the guy just wasn't very good, but the difference between jedis and even semi-competent powertechs is pretty stark. I hardly ever see assassin tanks.
He probably just wasn't that good. While it's true the number of AoE options are limited compared to assassins and powertechs, by that point he should be smart enough to smash as soon as he lands on the charge, and do everything he can to make sure use sweeping slash regularly and that it hits as many people as possible.
I mean, that's what I do with my Guardian Tank, and while it's true she's still only in the mid 30's, noones complained about it.
...and the almost utter absence of tank assassins when I'm not playing my other two tanks really makes me want to make one... if only the act one stories of both Inqs and Consulars weren't so boring...
...that, I and really don't feel like rerolling my sorc now that it's in RC... though she still hasn't finish Balmora...
The problem with heavy force tanks is that smash/sweep doesn't scale well. Sure, it's fine when you're just starting hard modes, but when you get a group of Columi/Rakata geared DPS, your AoEs are going to be useless.
Maybe I'm just a shitty tank. All those years in WoW and CoH mean nothing, but I'm happy as hell that I'm a DPS juggernaut now.
I have read through this thread and have seen quite a few comments about Powertech pvp that doesn't seem to be anything like my experience.
I created Xeoo on imperial side of the Sith Wyrm server in the middle of January and am currently valor level 63. I main/offtank for my guild on hard mode raids and pvp with a hybrid spec of 21/2/18
When I am pvping I use my ion/tank cylinder and almost always have up guard on a guild sorc. The gear I'm using for pvp is the merc eliminator set for the rail gun damage boost. Rakata shield in offhand, Rakata dps gun in main. I keep my expertise around 450-500 and use modded orange gear for chest/wrist/bracers. Biochem for the endurance stim and the crit adrenal. I'm usually running around with 19k hps in mostly dps gear. Aim and
Endurance both at 1611.
Since I have switched to the shield/pyro hybrid spec there is no class at all I fear anymore. I try to take on all the big names 1 on 1 just to see how overpowered this spec and gear setup is. It's beyond broken. Try it out and go feel like a tiny god.
PS. I was really shocked at the comments about how marauders destroy us. Even in full shield spec I felt they were always the easiest kills. With hybrid shield/pyro spec they just explode, even in full battlemaster gear.
So I just hit 50 with my Juggernaut and I guess its time for me to start tanking instances. Im kind of tempted to just jump in and start with hard modes, but I dont know if thats doable given my stats:
13500hp
22is% defense chance
22ish% shield chance
30ish% shield absorb
This is my current build but I kind of think the point in Unleashed may be better spent in Heavy Handed (5% damage increase is a 7.5% threat increase right?).
So I just hit 50 with my Juggernaut and I guess its time for me to start tanking instances. Im kind of tempted to just jump in and start with hard modes, but I dont know if thats doable given my stats:
13500hp
22is% defense chance
22ish% shield chance
30ish% shield absorb
This is my current build but I kind of think the point in Unleashed may be better spent in Heavy Handed (5% damage increase is a 7.5% threat increase right?).
I'd move some stuff around so that you can get unstoppable in the vengeance tree... but thats just me. You wont have crushing blow, but you will have more utility and CC immunity. More reason to use intercede then leap back in... 20% damage reduction isn't a bad thing either.
I would recommend gearing up a little bit before going into HMs, or just sticking to the lower ones with those stats. Even some of the basic pvp gear could probably help make things easier on your healers. You don't have too far to go though.
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ArrynAsk not the InnkeeperFor destiny is thy name!Registered Userregular
I would say your stats are right on for what I remember being a fresh 50. Your hp and shield chance are both a little low, but not by much.
Depending on the group you go with, you might be able to handle some of the more forgiving FPs. Taral V (skip the bonus boss) would be good.
I would try to get more health, whether that means changing some mods around or buying boe implants/earpieces (there are nice BoE ones on the market for not that much money.) Try and get up to 14-15k; some bosses hit you with spike damage or have enrages that can smash you if you have less health than that.
the last boss' aoe will one shot you if you don't run out of it (after she pulls you in.)
For an example of what I'm talking about, I ran HM BT with somebody from the guild the other night, and the bonus boss would just one shot him once he got under 20% and soft enraged. I think he had 13k health or so.
Nah, she wanst enraged after I died the group killed her just fine. She one shotted the sniper in the group earlier too. It was kind of weird. DPS in the group was surprisingly good given that I was dpsing while in tank spec. The bonus boss enraged, but it was at like 1%.
I have to get used to doing instances/ops in melee range, Ive been ranged for way too long (my mains a sniper, and when I played WoW way back in 2008 I was a Moonkin and before that a warlock).
Sooo I made a baby shadow and just got to 14.
I love tanking on this thing. I've already tanked every heroic my level and the baby flashpoint, although that one wasn't hard. But I just did that one for fun.
I need advices for both pve and pvp tanking. Specs, gear, etc. No, I will not switch to dps for pvp. I'm going to be a guard bot and love it. Although I will probably put on dps gear.
Also I have a sith warrior tank, but they are more straightforward. There also seems to be a lot more tankey advice floating around.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
The tank spec for shadow is the best spec that class has for pvp honestly. One of my buddies routinely does over 300k damage with over 100k protection in that spec. Wearing dps gear of course. Shadow tanking is pretty straightforward though, keep your shield buff up(the one that's off the GCD), double strike for filler, project all the time, cast tk throw when you have 3 stacks of harnessed shadows, yada yada.
I think this is the build most people level with (or close enough to it). Im either going to use that build or this one. I havent totally decided, and Im not even sure if I really dig the Shadow. I think I expected faster paced combat, but its probably too early for me to judge since Ive only hit level 16 or so.
With those last two unspent points going wherever you like, either in psychokinesis, applied force, or whatever you felt like. Most likely psychokinesis, just because project costs a lot of force.
Posts
Maybe, I guess I wouldn't know as I don't think I've ever run into an Assassin 1 v 1. Pretty much every Inquis I've ever fought has been a Sorc of either the dps or healy variety. Dunno why that is, maybe just my server.
...and Sniper/Gunslingers in my experince are like syphilis; you deal with it as soon as it shows up, there isn't too much of a problem, but wait too long, and you start losing body parts in a frightening manner, so most I see get stunned, then grappled to where I'm at, and then set on fire.
In any case @Joshmvii, I saw that he said he was a Powertech tank, so I was just saying what ACs that I found beatable as a Powertech tank because of, (or perhaps, in spite of) having tank gear with def/shield/absorb... and that was still 3 of 8, so I wasn't disagreeing with you so much as pointing out the exceptions while agreeing with you in a different way
AoE threat isn't that important in Ops though, except on a few fights, mostly trash pulls.
I honestly get the feeling that Guardian tanking is going to get a major overhaul in the future, but for now, I just swapped to Vigilance DPS which I really enjoy and I just throw on my tank gear and tank the one fight in the raid content that needs 2(subjectively)
I ran HM foundry with one the other day, and literally as soon as I healed on some of the pulls 2-3 mobs would be eating me. It's possible the guy just wasn't very good, but the difference between jedis and even semi-competent powertechs is pretty stark. I hardly ever see assassin tanks.
Tanking on a Guardian right now is basically TBC Warrior tanking, down to analogues of the same abilities. AoE is an utter joke while the other tanks have a cakewalk of it, and it needs work in the single target area too. I'm sure the first expansion will get a copy of sword and board and shockwave and all will be well, but until then... =)
He probably just wasn't that good. While it's true the number of AoE options are limited compared to assassins and powertechs, by that point he should be smart enough to smash as soon as he lands on the charge, and do everything he can to make sure use sweeping slash regularly and that it hits as many people as possible.
I mean, that's what I do with my Guardian Tank, and while it's true she's still only in the mid 30's, noones complained about it.
...and the almost utter absence of tank assassins when I'm not playing my other two tanks really makes me want to make one... if only the act one stories of both Inqs and Consulars weren't so boring...
...that, I and really don't feel like rerolling my sorc now that it's in RC... though she still hasn't finish Balmora...
Maybe I'm just a shitty tank. All those years in WoW and CoH mean nothing, but I'm happy as hell that I'm a DPS juggernaut now.
The Raid
yeah, you might never get another invite
I have read through this thread and have seen quite a few comments about Powertech pvp that doesn't seem to be anything like my experience.
I created Xeoo on imperial side of the Sith Wyrm server in the middle of January and am currently valor level 63. I main/offtank for my guild on hard mode raids and pvp with a hybrid spec of 21/2/18
http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301hRGrboboZMZbIbbdh.1
When I am pvping I use my ion/tank cylinder and almost always have up guard on a guild sorc. The gear I'm using for pvp is the merc eliminator set for the rail gun damage boost. Rakata shield in offhand, Rakata dps gun in main. I keep my expertise around 450-500 and use modded orange gear for chest/wrist/bracers. Biochem for the endurance stim and the crit adrenal. I'm usually running around with 19k hps in mostly dps gear. Aim and
Endurance both at 1611.
Since I have switched to the shield/pyro hybrid spec there is no class at all I fear anymore. I try to take on all the big names 1 on 1 just to see how overpowered this spec and gear setup is. It's beyond broken. Try it out and go feel like a tiny god.
PS. I was really shocked at the comments about how marauders destroy us. Even in full shield spec I felt they were always the easiest kills. With hybrid shield/pyro spec they just explode, even in full battlemaster gear.
Covers the above build along with others, must read for any vanguards out there.
Bnet tag: Nermals#11601
13500hp
22is% defense chance
22ish% shield chance
30ish% shield absorb
This is my current build but I kind of think the point in Unleashed may be better spent in Heavy Handed (5% damage increase is a 7.5% threat increase right?).
I'd move some stuff around so that you can get unstoppable in the vengeance tree... but thats just me. You wont have crushing blow, but you will have more utility and CC immunity. More reason to use intercede then leap back in... 20% damage reduction isn't a bad thing either.
Something like this: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101cMGbuMrkzMZhGM0M.1
That spec leaves 2 points that you could either put in intimidation or quake.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Depending on the group you go with, you might be able to handle some of the more forgiving FPs. Taral V (skip the bonus boss) would be good.
14010hp
21.87% defense chance
32.47% shield chance
24.4% absorb
But yeah, I dont think I can tank HM BT yet. I dpsd it fine (although the final boss did one shot me, but I think that was a glitch).
For an example of what I'm talking about, I ran HM BT with somebody from the guild the other night, and the bonus boss would just one shot him once he got under 20% and soft enraged. I think he had 13k health or so.
I have to get used to doing instances/ops in melee range, Ive been ranged for way too long (my mains a sniper, and when I played WoW way back in 2008 I was a Moonkin and before that a warlock).
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I love tanking on this thing. I've already tanked every heroic my level and the baby flashpoint, although that one wasn't hard. But I just did that one for fun.
I need advices for both pve and pvp tanking. Specs, gear, etc. No, I will not switch to dps for pvp. I'm going to be a guard bot and love it. Although I will probably put on dps gear.
Also I have a sith warrior tank, but they are more straightforward. There also seems to be a lot more tankey advice floating around.
torhead.com/skill-calc#601bIrokrskbsZZf0c.1
With those last two unspent points going wherever you like, either in psychokinesis, applied force, or whatever you felt like. Most likely psychokinesis, just because project costs a lot of force.