[Mass Effect] SPOILER ALL ME3 DISCUSSION. EVERY SINGLE BIT. EVEN HINTS.

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  • DragkoniasDragkonias Registered User regular
    jackisreal wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    What's "the special ending" in broad terms?

    Ending spoilers
    Basically you get a teaser that Shepard might not be dead.

    woah woah woah

    Can you elaborate?

    There is probably a trailer somewhere on the internet but basically.
    Game cuts to rubble. You see a broken and bloodied form sporting the N7 armor. The form lets off a sharp gasp and it cuts there.

  • blinkeblinke Registered User
    So.. if I never played ME2, would it be worth it to pick it up on the cheap before going through ME3?

  • SniperGuySniperGuy Also known as Dohaeris Registered User regular
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    I honestly dislike the increased unlock for aliens.

    Keep me from getting any decent guns. Well...I've gotten a few but I would like a few more.
    Thing I hate most about the ending
    Your choices for the last 3 games

    MEANINGLESS

    None of it makes a goddamn bit of difference. You do all that, and oh here's 3 fucking buttons pick your ending.

    It soured me so much on human revolution I haven't touched it since, why the fuck would Bioware repeat that

    You know I really don't understand this.
    At the end of the day the choices you make are the choices you make. Saying something is meaningless because things didn't turn out the way you wanted them to is pretty silly, imo.

    I mean I've read the ending and I know that Shepard is going to bite it for the most part. Yet I don't think that somehow invalidates the conversations I have with squadmates about what we're going to do once everything is over.

    The choices you made at the time were in the best interests of the galaxy simple as that.

    That being said I have a much different perspective on these kinds of games than other people.
    I'm saying the choices I made were meaningless because they had no effect on the outcome, the game just told us "here are the endings, pick one" and we get nothing beyond that

    What happened with the quarians, most of their population is on Rannoc, how are they doing?
    Since the Salarians are mostly intact, are they now the dominant power in the galaxy?
    How long until the races were in contact with each other again?
    WHY DID THE NORMANDY CRASH, AND WHERE THE HELL IS THAT PLANET AT?!

    Have you ever thought that the reason those things are
    uncertain because they are uncertain?

    I think people underestimate just what the ending means. At the end of ME3 for better or for worse you have pretty much stopped thr Reapers. You have stopped a race of sentient beings who have been guiding the galaxy by their plans for millions of years now.

    And that's why I think the end of ME3 is great. Because for the first time in those years the universe is finally free of Reapers. Which while refreshing also leaves a sense of uncertainty. Remember that the galaxy has been dependent on Reaper tech to the point where they never bothered to understand, that's gone and with it a future with many possibilities.

    Also, problem I have with those questions is that yeah they would be nice to know but at the end of the day those aren't things that need to be answered immediately.

    Mass Effect has always been Shepard's story and his/her quest to stop the Reapers. That's it. All that other stuff about the Krogans, Quarians, etc while nice were just there to help paint the universe.

    And ME3 does end Shepard's story(which is actually why the special ending annoys me). And even though Shepard's story ends the story of the universe is still ongoing it doesn't have a definite conclusion. If anything the destruction of the Reapers just opens more mysteries.

    As for what will come of Shepard's actions who knows, and I believe that's the point. Many things could happen.

    I don't know I think people are so used to having things spelled out for them that they can't appreciate an open ending.
    End spoilers
    But that's the point. That's why people are
    upset. An open ending isn't an ending. We're attached to far more than just Shep and we don't get to see the outcomes of any of those other decisions. Some of those stories are just as important as the reapers and we don't get to see any conclusions for them. It's terribly unsatisfying. If the last episode of Star Wars was Empire Strikes Back people would be pissed. Vader defeats son and friends, goes to rule the galaxy. You wanted to find out what happened to Han/Lando/Luke/Chewie/Droids and friends? Sorry, the story was about Vader. This may be a terrible analogy.

    And that's something I think people generally need to start getting over. As someone who has been apart of ME since the beginning I can tell you...
    that the things that keep people talking about the series are the indefinites. People discussing Quarians vs. Geth, the Genophage, even aspects of certain characters. We discussed those things because there were no definite answers. And because of this you could get many different interpretations of the same situation because of how people looked at them.

    Even ME3 is like that. Take for instance the Krogan/Turian conflict or the Geth/Quarian conflict. Even though you can "solve" both of those they are both left very open.

    Like I helped saved the Krogan but even then I understand the risk that it poses(the game itself even does this, supporting both sides so there isn't a "right"). I mean I can place hope in Wrex and Eve and hope they do the right thing, or maybe even then the same mistakes will be repeated over.

    Who knows? And that's why it is fun to debate those things.

    If the game just spells it out for you then you lose that.

    No it doesn't support both sides. Wrex very clearly states he won't be pursuing war against the other races. It's very obviously the moral thing to do. That aside, it doesn't present any closure. If there was another game following this, it'd be fine, but since this is all we get people are upset. At the very least finding out what happened to the characters we know and love would have been great, but instead everything is left unknown. Everything. You make these big decisions and agonize over them only to find out that that decision didn't matter. You'd have gotten a fleet either way, but you never find out the lasting implication of your decision. In ME1 and ME2 you find out what your decisions mean and what they caused, and in ME3 you see the results of many of your decisions. But you get more decisions and you'll never get to find out what happened to those. It breaks from the established trend. If you liked it, great, but people are absolutely justified in being dissatisfied. This isn't a new chapter, it's the last chapter and we'll never get to find out the actual ending. To go back to Star Wars, at the end of that we found out what happened to everyone even though their lives aren't over. There's plenty of extended universe stuff but the stories of those characters at those times were completed. In ME all we get is one of many many characters to complete a whole story.

    Twitch Streaming W/TH/F and more
    Dohaeris210 on PSN / SniperGuy710 on Xbone Live
    Sometimes, I make YouTube videos
  • SniperGuySniperGuy Also known as Dohaeris Registered User regular
    blinke wrote: »
    So.. if I never played ME2, would it be worth it to pick it up on the cheap before going through ME3?

    Yes.

    Twitch Streaming W/TH/F and more
    Dohaeris210 on PSN / SniperGuy710 on Xbone Live
    Sometimes, I make YouTube videos
  • SniperGuySniperGuy Also known as Dohaeris Registered User regular
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    jackisreal wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    What's "the special ending" in broad terms?

    Ending spoilers
    Basically you get a teaser that Shepard might not be dead.

    woah woah woah

    Can you elaborate?

    There is probably a trailer somewhere on the internet but basically.
    Game cuts to rubble. You see a broken and bloodied form sporting the N7 armor. The form lets off a sharp gasp and it cuts there.

    GIANT GIANT SPOILERS INSIDE:
    NO REALLY

    Twitch Streaming W/TH/F and more
    Dohaeris210 on PSN / SniperGuy710 on Xbone Live
    Sometimes, I make YouTube videos
  • DragkoniasDragkonias Registered User regular
    edited March 2012
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    I honestly dislike the increased unlock for aliens.

    Keep me from getting any decent guns. Well...I've gotten a few but I would like a few more.
    Thing I hate most about the ending
    Your choices for the last 3 games

    MEANINGLESS

    None of it makes a goddamn bit of difference. You do all that, and oh here's 3 fucking buttons pick your ending.

    It soured me so much on human revolution I haven't touched it since, why the fuck would Bioware repeat that

    You know I really don't understand this.
    At the end of the day the choices you make are the choices you make. Saying something is meaningless because things didn't turn out the way you wanted them to is pretty silly, imo.

    I mean I've read the ending and I know that Shepard is going to bite it for the most part. Yet I don't think that somehow invalidates the conversations I have with squadmates about what we're going to do once everything is over.

    The choices you made at the time were in the best interests of the galaxy simple as that.

    That being said I have a much different perspective on these kinds of games than other people.
    I'm saying the choices I made were meaningless because they had no effect on the outcome, the game just told us "here are the endings, pick one" and we get nothing beyond that

    What happened with the quarians, most of their population is on Rannoc, how are they doing?
    Since the Salarians are mostly intact, are they now the dominant power in the galaxy?
    How long until the races were in contact with each other again?
    WHY DID THE NORMANDY CRASH, AND WHERE THE HELL IS THAT PLANET AT?!

    Have you ever thought that the reason those things are
    uncertain because they are uncertain?

    I think people underestimate just what the ending means. At the end of ME3 for better or for worse you have pretty much stopped thr Reapers. You have stopped a race of sentient beings who have been guiding the galaxy by their plans for millions of years now.

    And that's why I think the end of ME3 is great. Because for the first time in those years the universe is finally free of Reapers. Which while refreshing also leaves a sense of uncertainty. Remember that the galaxy has been dependent on Reaper tech to the point where they never bothered to understand, that's gone and with it a future with many possibilities.

    Also, problem I have with those questions is that yeah they would be nice to know but at the end of the day those aren't things that need to be answered immediately.

    Mass Effect has always been Shepard's story and his/her quest to stop the Reapers. That's it. All that other stuff about the Krogans, Quarians, etc while nice were just there to help paint the universe.

    And ME3 does end Shepard's story(which is actually why the special ending annoys me). And even though Shepard's story ends the story of the universe is still ongoing it doesn't have a definite conclusion. If anything the destruction of the Reapers just opens more mysteries.

    As for what will come of Shepard's actions who knows, and I believe that's the point. Many things could happen.

    I don't know I think people are so used to having things spelled out for them that they can't appreciate an open ending.
    End spoilers
    But that's the point. That's why people are
    upset. An open ending isn't an ending. We're attached to far more than just Shep and we don't get to see the outcomes of any of those other decisions. Some of those stories are just as important as the reapers and we don't get to see any conclusions for them. It's terribly unsatisfying. If the last episode of Star Wars was Empire Strikes Back people would be pissed. Vader defeats son and friends, goes to rule the galaxy. You wanted to find out what happened to Han/Lando/Luke/Chewie/Droids and friends? Sorry, the story was about Vader. This may be a terrible analogy.

    And that's something I think people generally need to start getting over. As someone who has been apart of ME since the beginning I can tell you...
    that the things that keep people talking about the series are the indefinites. People discussing Quarians vs. Geth, the Genophage, even aspects of certain characters. We discussed those things because there were no definite answers. And because of this you could get many different interpretations of the same situation because of how people looked at them.

    Even ME3 is like that. Take for instance the Krogan/Turian conflict or the Geth/Quarian conflict. Even though you can "solve" both of those they are both left very open.

    Like I helped saved the Krogan but even then I understand the risk that it poses(the game itself even does this, supporting both sides so there isn't a "right"). I mean I can place hope in Wrex and Eve and hope they do the right thing, or maybe even then the same mistakes will be repeated over.

    Who knows? And that's why it is fun to debate those things.

    If the game just spells it out for you then you lose that.

    No it doesn't support both sides. Wrex very clearly states he won't be pursuing war against the other races. It's very obviously the moral thing to do. That aside, it doesn't present any closure. If there was another game following this, it'd be fine, but since this is all we get people are upset. At the very least finding out what happened to the characters we know and love would have been great, but instead everything is left unknown. Everything. You make these big decisions and agonize over them only to find out that that decision didn't matter. You'd have gotten a fleet either way, but you never find out the lasting implication of your decision. In ME1 and ME2 you find out what your decisions mean and what they caused, and in ME3 you see the results of many of your decisions. But you get more decisions and you'll never get to find out what happened to those. It breaks from the established trend. If you liked it, great, but people are absolutely justified in being dissatisfied. This isn't a new chapter, it's the last chapter and we'll never get to find out the actual ending. To go back to Star Wars, at the end of that we found out what happened to everyone even though their lives aren't over. There's plenty of extended universe stuff but the stories of those characters at those times were completed. In ME all we get is one of many many characters to complete a whole story.

    And just because someone says something its true?

    If you believe that I've got a million year old penny I'd like to sell you.

    Dragkonias on
  • HboxHbox Registered User regular
    Arteen wrote: »
    So, the ending...
    I just shut my Xbox off right at the end. I was already disappointed at how they handled TIM (indoctrination again?), but after that what the hell. Now I don't even want to finish the game. I just don't care anymore. I'm just going to pretend we got to Earth, kicked Reaper ass, then partied on the Normandy all night long.

    I really, really, really, really, REALLY wish I did that. Though I wasn't disappointed at that first thing.

    720551nt8.png
    PSN ID : HBoxx
  • SniperGuySniperGuy Also known as Dohaeris Registered User regular
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    I honestly dislike the increased unlock for aliens.

    Keep me from getting any decent guns. Well...I've gotten a few but I would like a few more.
    Thing I hate most about the ending
    Your choices for the last 3 games

    MEANINGLESS

    None of it makes a goddamn bit of difference. You do all that, and oh here's 3 fucking buttons pick your ending.

    It soured me so much on human revolution I haven't touched it since, why the fuck would Bioware repeat that

    You know I really don't understand this.
    At the end of the day the choices you make are the choices you make. Saying something is meaningless because things didn't turn out the way you wanted them to is pretty silly, imo.

    I mean I've read the ending and I know that Shepard is going to bite it for the most part. Yet I don't think that somehow invalidates the conversations I have with squadmates about what we're going to do once everything is over.

    The choices you made at the time were in the best interests of the galaxy simple as that.

    That being said I have a much different perspective on these kinds of games than other people.
    I'm saying the choices I made were meaningless because they had no effect on the outcome, the game just told us "here are the endings, pick one" and we get nothing beyond that

    What happened with the quarians, most of their population is on Rannoc, how are they doing?
    Since the Salarians are mostly intact, are they now the dominant power in the galaxy?
    How long until the races were in contact with each other again?
    WHY DID THE NORMANDY CRASH, AND WHERE THE HELL IS THAT PLANET AT?!

    Have you ever thought that the reason those things are
    uncertain because they are uncertain?

    I think people underestimate just what the ending means. At the end of ME3 for better or for worse you have pretty much stopped thr Reapers. You have stopped a race of sentient beings who have been guiding the galaxy by their plans for millions of years now.

    And that's why I think the end of ME3 is great. Because for the first time in those years the universe is finally free of Reapers. Which while refreshing also leaves a sense of uncertainty. Remember that the galaxy has been dependent on Reaper tech to the point where they never bothered to understand, that's gone and with it a future with many possibilities.

    Also, problem I have with those questions is that yeah they would be nice to know but at the end of the day those aren't things that need to be answered immediately.

    Mass Effect has always been Shepard's story and his/her quest to stop the Reapers. That's it. All that other stuff about the Krogans, Quarians, etc while nice were just there to help paint the universe.

    And ME3 does end Shepard's story(which is actually why the special ending annoys me). And even though Shepard's story ends the story of the universe is still ongoing it doesn't have a definite conclusion. If anything the destruction of the Reapers just opens more mysteries.

    As for what will come of Shepard's actions who knows, and I believe that's the point. Many things could happen.

    I don't know I think people are so used to having things spelled out for them that they can't appreciate an open ending.
    End spoilers
    But that's the point. That's why people are
    upset. An open ending isn't an ending. We're attached to far more than just Shep and we don't get to see the outcomes of any of those other decisions. Some of those stories are just as important as the reapers and we don't get to see any conclusions for them. It's terribly unsatisfying. If the last episode of Star Wars was Empire Strikes Back people would be pissed. Vader defeats son and friends, goes to rule the galaxy. You wanted to find out what happened to Han/Lando/Luke/Chewie/Droids and friends? Sorry, the story was about Vader. This may be a terrible analogy.

    And that's something I think people generally need to start getting over. As someone who has been apart of ME since the beginning I can tell you...
    that the things that keep people talking about the series are the indefinites. People discussing Quarians vs. Geth, the Genophage, even aspects of certain characters. We discussed those things because there were no definite answers. And because of this you could get many different interpretations of the same situation because of how people looked at them.

    Even ME3 is like that. Take for instance the Krogan/Turian conflict or the Geth/Quarian conflict. Even though you can "solve" both of those they are both left very open.

    Like I helped saved the Krogan but even then I understand the risk that it poses(the game itself even does this, supporting both sides so there isn't a "right"). I mean I can place hope in Wrex and Eve and hope they do the right thing, or maybe even then the same mistakes will be repeated over.

    Who knows? And that's why it is fun to debate those things.

    If the game just spells it out for you then you lose that.

    No it doesn't support both sides. Wrex very clearly states he won't be pursuing war against the other races. It's very obviously the moral thing to do. That aside, it doesn't present any closure. If there was another game following this, it'd be fine, but since this is all we get people are upset. At the very least finding out what happened to the characters we know and love would have been great, but instead everything is left unknown. Everything. You make these big decisions and agonize over them only to find out that that decision didn't matter. You'd have gotten a fleet either way, but you never find out the lasting implication of your decision. In ME1 and ME2 you find out what your decisions mean and what they caused, and in ME3 you see the results of many of your decisions. But you get more decisions and you'll never get to find out what happened to those. It breaks from the established trend. If you liked it, great, but people are absolutely justified in being dissatisfied. This isn't a new chapter, it's the last chapter and we'll never get to find out the actual ending. To go back to Star Wars, at the end of that we found out what happened to everyone even though their lives aren't over. There's plenty of extended universe stuff but the stories of those characters at those times were completed. In ME all we get is one of many many characters to complete a whole story.

    And just because someone says something its true?

    If you believe that I've got a million year old penny I'd like to sell you.

    You and I clearly are not going to reach an agreement on this point.

    So, multi sure is fun. Anyone confirm the rumor of a Volus Adept? Cause I want it.

    Twitch Streaming W/TH/F and more
    Dohaeris210 on PSN / SniperGuy710 on Xbone Live
    Sometimes, I make YouTube videos
  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited March 2012
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    I honestly dislike the increased unlock for aliens.

    Keep me from getting any decent guns. Well...I've gotten a few but I would like a few more.
    Thing I hate most about the ending
    Your choices for the last 3 games

    MEANINGLESS

    None of it makes a goddamn bit of difference. You do all that, and oh here's 3 fucking buttons pick your ending.

    It soured me so much on human revolution I haven't touched it since, why the fuck would Bioware repeat that

    You know I really don't understand this.
    At the end of the day the choices you make are the choices you make. Saying something is meaningless because things didn't turn out the way you wanted them to is pretty silly, imo.

    I mean I've read the ending and I know that Shepard is going to bite it for the most part. Yet I don't think that somehow invalidates the conversations I have with squadmates about what we're going to do once everything is over.

    The choices you made at the time were in the best interests of the galaxy simple as that.

    That being said I have a much different perspective on these kinds of games than other people.
    I'm saying the choices I made were meaningless because they had no effect on the outcome, the game just told us "here are the endings, pick one" and we get nothing beyond that

    What happened with the quarians, most of their population is on Rannoc, how are they doing?
    Since the Salarians are mostly intact, are they now the dominant power in the galaxy?
    How long until the races were in contact with each other again?
    WHY DID THE NORMANDY CRASH, AND WHERE THE HELL IS THAT PLANET AT?!

    Have you ever thought that the reason those things are
    uncertain because they are uncertain?

    I think people underestimate just what the ending means. At the end of ME3 for better or for worse you have pretty much stopped thr Reapers. You have stopped a race of sentient beings who have been guiding the galaxy by their plans for millions of years now.

    And that's why I think the end of ME3 is great. Because for the first time in those years the universe is finally free of Reapers. Which while refreshing also leaves a sense of uncertainty. Remember that the galaxy has been dependent on Reaper tech to the point where they never bothered to understand, that's gone and with it a future with many possibilities.

    Also, problem I have with those questions is that yeah they would be nice to know but at the end of the day those aren't things that need to be answered immediately.

    Mass Effect has always been Shepard's story and his/her quest to stop the Reapers. That's it. All that other stuff about the Krogans, Quarians, etc while nice were just there to help paint the universe.

    And ME3 does end Shepard's story(which is actually why the special ending annoys me). And even though Shepard's story ends the story of the universe is still ongoing it doesn't have a definite conclusion. If anything the destruction of the Reapers just opens more mysteries.

    As for what will come of Shepard's actions who knows, and I believe that's the point. Many things could happen.

    I don't know I think people are so used to having things spelled out for them that they can't appreciate an open ending.
    End spoilers
    But that's the point. That's why people are
    upset. An open ending isn't an ending. We're attached to far more than just Shep and we don't get to see the outcomes of any of those other decisions. Some of those stories are just as important as the reapers and we don't get to see any conclusions for them. It's terribly unsatisfying. If the last episode of Star Wars was Empire Strikes Back people would be pissed. Vader defeats son and friends, goes to rule the galaxy. You wanted to find out what happened to Han/Lando/Luke/Chewie/Droids and friends? Sorry, the story was about Vader. This may be a terrible analogy.

    And that's something I think people generally need to start getting over. As someone who has been apart of ME since the beginning I can tell you...
    that the things that keep people talking about the series are the indefinites. People discussing Quarians vs. Geth, the Genophage, even aspects of certain characters. We discussed those things because there were no definite answers. And because of this you could get many different interpretations of the same situation because of how people looked at them.

    Even ME3 is like that. Take for instance the Krogan/Turian conflict or the Geth/Quarian conflict. Even though you can "solve" both of those they are both left very open.

    Like I helped saved the Krogan but even then I understand the risk that it poses(the game itself even does this, supporting both sides so there isn't a "right"). I mean I can place hope in Wrex and Eve and hope they do the right thing, or maybe even then the same mistakes will be repeated over.

    Who knows? And that's why it is fun to debate those things.

    If the game just spells it out for you then you lose that.

    No it doesn't support both sides. Wrex very clearly states he won't be pursuing war against the other races. It's very obviously the moral thing to do. That aside, it doesn't present any closure. If there was another game following this, it'd be fine, but since this is all we get people are upset. At the very least finding out what happened to the characters we know and love would have been great, but instead everything is left unknown. Everything. You make these big decisions and agonize over them only to find out that that decision didn't matter. You'd have gotten a fleet either way, but you never find out the lasting implication of your decision. In ME1 and ME2 you find out what your decisions mean and what they caused, and in ME3 you see the results of many of your decisions. But you get more decisions and you'll never get to find out what happened to those. It breaks from the established trend. If you liked it, great, but people are absolutely justified in being dissatisfied. This isn't a new chapter, it's the last chapter and we'll never get to find out the actual ending. To go back to Star Wars, at the end of that we found out what happened to everyone even though their lives aren't over. There's plenty of extended universe stuff but the stories of those characters at those times were completed. In ME all we get is one of many many characters to complete a whole story.

    And just because someone says something its true?

    If you believe that I've got a million year old penny I'd like to sell you.

    If Bioware releases DLC that takes place after the end of the game I would eat my shoe but be thrilled. Chances are we will get fifty million "new multiplayer map/gun/character" dlcs and a few DLCs that add new missions along the way

    If they announce an ME4, I really have no fucking clue how that'd work without the
    mass relays, you'd be stuck
    my hate will turn to a nerd boner so fucking fast

    More likely we'll get a prequel or some shit
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    I honestly dislike the increased unlock for aliens.

    Keep me from getting any decent guns. Well...I've gotten a few but I would like a few more.
    Thing I hate most about the ending
    Your choices for the last 3 games

    MEANINGLESS

    None of it makes a goddamn bit of difference. You do all that, and oh here's 3 fucking buttons pick your ending.

    It soured me so much on human revolution I haven't touched it since, why the fuck would Bioware repeat that

    You know I really don't understand this.
    At the end of the day the choices you make are the choices you make. Saying something is meaningless because things didn't turn out the way you wanted them to is pretty silly, imo.

    I mean I've read the ending and I know that Shepard is going to bite it for the most part. Yet I don't think that somehow invalidates the conversations I have with squadmates about what we're going to do once everything is over.

    The choices you made at the time were in the best interests of the galaxy simple as that.

    That being said I have a much different perspective on these kinds of games than other people.
    I'm saying the choices I made were meaningless because they had no effect on the outcome, the game just told us "here are the endings, pick one" and we get nothing beyond that

    What happened with the quarians, most of their population is on Rannoc, how are they doing?
    Since the Salarians are mostly intact, are they now the dominant power in the galaxy?
    How long until the races were in contact with each other again?
    WHY DID THE NORMANDY CRASH, AND WHERE THE HELL IS THAT PLANET AT?!

    Have you ever thought that the reason those things are
    uncertain because they are uncertain?

    I think people underestimate just what the ending means. At the end of ME3 for better or for worse you have pretty much stopped thr Reapers. You have stopped a race of sentient beings who have been guiding the galaxy by their plans for millions of years now.

    And that's why I think the end of ME3 is great. Because for the first time in those years the universe is finally free of Reapers. Which while refreshing also leaves a sense of uncertainty. Remember that the galaxy has been dependent on Reaper tech to the point where they never bothered to understand, that's gone and with it a future with many possibilities.

    Also, problem I have with those questions is that yeah they would be nice to know but at the end of the day those aren't things that need to be answered immediately.

    Mass Effect has always been Shepard's story and his/her quest to stop the Reapers. That's it. All that other stuff about the Krogans, Quarians, etc while nice were just there to help paint the universe.

    And ME3 does end Shepard's story(which is actually why the special ending annoys me). And even though Shepard's story ends the story of the universe is still ongoing it doesn't have a definite conclusion. If anything the destruction of the Reapers just opens more mysteries.

    As for what will come of Shepard's actions who knows, and I believe that's the point. Many things could happen.

    I don't know I think people are so used to having things spelled out for them that they can't appreciate an open ending.
    The normandy randomly crashing on a planet that by all rights they shouldn't be anywhere near (unless there's a habitable planet within a few light-minutes of earth?) isn't an open ending, it's fucking nonsensical

    override367 on
  • Dox the PIDox the PI Registered User regular
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    I honestly dislike the increased unlock for aliens.

    Keep me from getting any decent guns. Well...I've gotten a few but I would like a few more.
    Thing I hate most about the ending
    Your choices for the last 3 games

    MEANINGLESS

    None of it makes a goddamn bit of difference. You do all that, and oh here's 3 fucking buttons pick your ending.

    It soured me so much on human revolution I haven't touched it since, why the fuck would Bioware repeat that

    You know I really don't understand this.
    At the end of the day the choices you make are the choices you make. Saying something is meaningless because things didn't turn out the way you wanted them to is pretty silly, imo.

    I mean I've read the ending and I know that Shepard is going to bite it for the most part. Yet I don't think that somehow invalidates the conversations I have with squadmates about what we're going to do once everything is over.

    The choices you made at the time were in the best interests of the galaxy simple as that.

    That being said I have a much different perspective on these kinds of games than other people.
    I'm saying the choices I made were meaningless because they had no effect on the outcome, the game just told us "here are the endings, pick one" and we get nothing beyond that

    What happened with the quarians, most of their population is on Rannoc, how are they doing?
    Since the Salarians are mostly intact, are they now the dominant power in the galaxy?
    How long until the races were in contact with each other again?
    WHY DID THE NORMANDY CRASH, AND WHERE THE HELL IS THAT PLANET AT?!

    Have you ever thought that the reason those things are
    uncertain because they are uncertain?

    I think people underestimate just what the ending means. At the end of ME3 for better or for worse you have pretty much stopped thr Reapers. You have stopped a race of sentient beings who have been guiding the galaxy by their plans for millions of years now.

    And that's why I think the end of ME3 is great. Because for the first time in those years the universe is finally free of Reapers. Which while refreshing also leaves a sense of uncertainty. Remember that the galaxy has been dependent on Reaper tech to the point where they never bothered to understand, that's gone and with it a future with many possibilities.

    Also, problem I have with those questions is that yeah they would be nice to know but at the end of the day those aren't things that need to be answered immediately.

    Mass Effect has always been Shepard's story and his/her quest to stop the Reapers. That's it. All that other stuff about the Krogans, Quarians, etc while nice were just there to help paint the universe.

    And ME3 does end Shepard's story(which is actually why the special ending annoys me). And even though Shepard's story ends the story of the universe is still ongoing it doesn't have a definite conclusion. If anything the destruction of the Reapers just opens more mysteries.

    As for what will come of Shepard's actions who knows, and I believe that's the point. Many things could happen.

    I don't know I think people are so used to having things spelled out for them that they can't appreciate an open ending.
    End spoilers
    But that's the point. That's why people are
    upset. An open ending isn't an ending. We're attached to far more than just Shep and we don't get to see the outcomes of any of those other decisions. Some of those stories are just as important as the reapers and we don't get to see any conclusions for them. It's terribly unsatisfying. If the last episode of Star Wars was Empire Strikes Back people would be pissed. Vader defeats son and friends, goes to rule the galaxy. You wanted to find out what happened to Han/Lando/Luke/Chewie/Droids and friends? Sorry, the story was about Vader. This may be a terrible analogy.

    And that's something I think people generally need to start getting over. As someone who has been apart of ME since the beginning I can tell you...
    that the things that keep people talking about the series are the indefinites. People discussing Quarians vs. Geth, the Genophage, even aspects of certain characters. We discussed those things because there were no definite answers. And because of this you could get many different interpretations of the same situation because of how people looked at them.

    Even ME3 is like that. Take for instance the Krogan/Turian conflict or the Geth/Quarian conflict. Even though you can "solve" both of those they are both left very open.

    Like I helped saved the Krogan but even then I understand the risk that it poses(the game itself even does this, supporting both sides so there isn't a "right"). I mean I can place hope in Wrex and Eve and hope they do the right thing, or maybe even then the same mistakes will be repeated over.

    Who knows? And that's why it is fun to debate those things.

    If the game just spells it out for you then you lose that.

    No it doesn't support both sides. Wrex very clearly states he won't be pursuing war against the other races. It's very obviously the moral thing to do. That aside, it doesn't present any closure. If there was another game following this, it'd be fine, but since this is all we get people are upset. At the very least finding out what happened to the characters we know and love would have been great, but instead everything is left unknown. Everything. You make these big decisions and agonize over them only to find out that that decision didn't matter. You'd have gotten a fleet either way, but you never find out the lasting implication of your decision. In ME1 and ME2 you find out what your decisions mean and what they caused, and in ME3 you see the results of many of your decisions. But you get more decisions and you'll never get to find out what happened to those. It breaks from the established trend. If you liked it, great, but people are absolutely justified in being dissatisfied. This isn't a new chapter, it's the last chapter and we'll never get to find out the actual ending. To go back to Star Wars, at the end of that we found out what happened to everyone even though their lives aren't over. There's plenty of extended universe stuff but the stories of those characters at those times were completed. In ME all we get is one of many many characters to complete a whole story.

    And just because someone says something its true?

    If you believe that I've got a million year old penny I'd like to sell you.

    If Bioware releases DLC that takes place after the end of the game I would eat my shoe but be thrilled. Chances are we will get fifty million "new multiplayer map/gun/character" dlcs and a few DLCs that add new missions along the way

    If they announce an ME4, I really have no fucking clue how that'd work without the
    mass relays, you'd be stuck
    my hate will turn to a nerd boner so fucking fast

    More likely we'll get a prequel or some shit
    FTL is still a thing within the galaxy, it's how you travel with the fuel in game
    If anything the lack of Mass Relays could lead to interesting situations where everyone becomes alot more territorial as people are more isolated and getting long distances is harder
    and bootleg reaper tech could start springing up

  • mjekmjek Registered User
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    I honestly dislike the increased unlock for aliens.

    Keep me from getting any decent guns. Well...I've gotten a few but I would like a few more.
    Thing I hate most about the ending
    Your choices for the last 3 games

    MEANINGLESS

    None of it makes a goddamn bit of difference. You do all that, and oh here's 3 fucking buttons pick your ending.

    It soured me so much on human revolution I haven't touched it since, why the fuck would Bioware repeat that

    You know I really don't understand this.
    At the end of the day the choices you make are the choices you make. Saying something is meaningless because things didn't turn out the way you wanted them to is pretty silly, imo.

    I mean I've read the ending and I know that Shepard is going to bite it for the most part. Yet I don't think that somehow invalidates the conversations I have with squadmates about what we're going to do once everything is over.

    The choices you made at the time were in the best interests of the galaxy simple as that.

    That being said I have a much different perspective on these kinds of games than other people.
    I'm saying the choices I made were meaningless because they had no effect on the outcome, the game just told us "here are the endings, pick one" and we get nothing beyond that

    What happened with the quarians, most of their population is on Rannoc, how are they doing?
    Since the Salarians are mostly intact, are they now the dominant power in the galaxy?
    How long until the races were in contact with each other again?
    WHY DID THE NORMANDY CRASH, AND WHERE THE HELL IS THAT PLANET AT?!

    Have you ever thought that the reason those things are
    uncertain because they are uncertain?

    I think people underestimate just what the ending means. At the end of ME3 for better or for worse you have pretty much stopped thr Reapers. You have stopped a race of sentient beings who have been guiding the galaxy by their plans for millions of years now.

    And that's why I think the end of ME3 is great. Because for the first time in those years the universe is finally free of Reapers. Which while refreshing also leaves a sense of uncertainty. Remember that the galaxy has been dependent on Reaper tech to the point where they never bothered to understand, that's gone and with it a future with many possibilities.

    Also, problem I have with those questions is that yeah they would be nice to know but at the end of the day those aren't things that need to be answered immediately.

    Mass Effect has always been Shepard's story and his/her quest to stop the Reapers. That's it. All that other stuff about the Krogans, Quarians, etc while nice were just there to help paint the universe.

    And ME3 does end Shepard's story(which is actually why the special ending annoys me). And even though Shepard's story ends the story of the universe is still ongoing it doesn't have a definite conclusion. If anything the destruction of the Reapers just opens more mysteries.

    As for what will come of Shepard's actions who knows, and I believe that's the point. Many things could happen.

    I don't know I think people are so used to having things spelled out for them that they can't appreciate an open ending.
    End spoilers
    But that's the point. That's why people are
    upset. An open ending isn't an ending. We're attached to far more than just Shep and we don't get to see the outcomes of any of those other decisions. Some of those stories are just as important as the reapers and we don't get to see any conclusions for them. It's terribly unsatisfying. If the last episode of Star Wars was Empire Strikes Back people would be pissed. Vader defeats son and friends, goes to rule the galaxy. You wanted to find out what happened to Han/Lando/Luke/Chewie/Droids and friends? Sorry, the story was about Vader. This may be a terrible analogy.

    And that's something I think people generally need to start getting over. As someone who has been apart of ME since the beginning I can tell you...
    that the things that keep people talking about the series are the indefinites. People discussing Quarians vs. Geth, the Genophage, even aspects of certain characters. We discussed those things because there were no definite answers. And because of this you could get many different interpretations of the same situation because of how people looked at them.

    Even ME3 is like that. Take for instance the Krogan/Turian conflict or the Geth/Quarian conflict. Even though you can "solve" both of those they are both left very open.

    Like I helped saved the Krogan but even then I understand the risk that it poses(the game itself even does this, supporting both sides so there isn't a "right"). I mean I can place hope in Wrex and Eve and hope they do the right thing, or maybe even then the same mistakes will be repeated over.

    Who knows? And that's why it is fun to debate those things.

    If the game just spells it out for you then you lose that.

    Debating things is fun, but this is end of the trilogy. Shepard's story is over and there has been no real resolution of any kind. The last level of ME3 is a non-ending. It reminds me a lot of Fallout 3 without DLC- you spend the entire game adventuring around and then at the end you get turned into grey goo. Until six months later when the DLC came out.

    Remember the feeling of victory you felt at the end of ME1 and 2- you won, against all odds, and the endings reflected that. ME3 just gives a three-minute cinematic and rolls credits.

    From a writing standpoint, my biggest issue with the ending is that it's a Deus Ex Machina if there ever was one. You meet the Crucible and he tells you that he controls the cycle (but not how or why), tells you synthetic life and organic life can never get along (but why, or acknowledging EDI or the geth or their symbiosis with the quarians), and finally gives you a third option (that is not explained in any detail at all- what, did Joker become a Terminator or is the green glow just for cool factor?).

    That ending pretty much breaks every rule of fiction there is, and does so without putting something well-done in it's place. Who the hell wrote this bullshit? I've seen more technically proficient endings in Harry Potter fanfiction.

  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited March 2012
    mjek wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    I honestly dislike the increased unlock for aliens.

    Keep me from getting any decent guns. Well...I've gotten a few but I would like a few more.
    Thing I hate most about the ending
    Your choices for the last 3 games

    MEANINGLESS

    None of it makes a goddamn bit of difference. You do all that, and oh here's 3 fucking buttons pick your ending.

    It soured me so much on human revolution I haven't touched it since, why the fuck would Bioware repeat that

    You know I really don't understand this.
    At the end of the day the choices you make are the choices you make. Saying something is meaningless because things didn't turn out the way you wanted them to is pretty silly, imo.

    I mean I've read the ending and I know that Shepard is going to bite it for the most part. Yet I don't think that somehow invalidates the conversations I have with squadmates about what we're going to do once everything is over.

    The choices you made at the time were in the best interests of the galaxy simple as that.

    That being said I have a much different perspective on these kinds of games than other people.
    I'm saying the choices I made were meaningless because they had no effect on the outcome, the game just told us "here are the endings, pick one" and we get nothing beyond that

    What happened with the quarians, most of their population is on Rannoc, how are they doing?
    Since the Salarians are mostly intact, are they now the dominant power in the galaxy?
    How long until the races were in contact with each other again?
    WHY DID THE NORMANDY CRASH, AND WHERE THE HELL IS THAT PLANET AT?!

    Have you ever thought that the reason those things are
    uncertain because they are uncertain?

    I think people underestimate just what the ending means. At the end of ME3 for better or for worse you have pretty much stopped thr Reapers. You have stopped a race of sentient beings who have been guiding the galaxy by their plans for millions of years now.

    And that's why I think the end of ME3 is great. Because for the first time in those years the universe is finally free of Reapers. Which while refreshing also leaves a sense of uncertainty. Remember that the galaxy has been dependent on Reaper tech to the point where they never bothered to understand, that's gone and with it a future with many possibilities.

    Also, problem I have with those questions is that yeah they would be nice to know but at the end of the day those aren't things that need to be answered immediately.

    Mass Effect has always been Shepard's story and his/her quest to stop the Reapers. That's it. All that other stuff about the Krogans, Quarians, etc while nice were just there to help paint the universe.

    And ME3 does end Shepard's story(which is actually why the special ending annoys me). And even though Shepard's story ends the story of the universe is still ongoing it doesn't have a definite conclusion. If anything the destruction of the Reapers just opens more mysteries.

    As for what will come of Shepard's actions who knows, and I believe that's the point. Many things could happen.

    I don't know I think people are so used to having things spelled out for them that they can't appreciate an open ending.
    End spoilers
    But that's the point. That's why people are
    upset. An open ending isn't an ending. We're attached to far more than just Shep and we don't get to see the outcomes of any of those other decisions. Some of those stories are just as important as the reapers and we don't get to see any conclusions for them. It's terribly unsatisfying. If the last episode of Star Wars was Empire Strikes Back people would be pissed. Vader defeats son and friends, goes to rule the galaxy. You wanted to find out what happened to Han/Lando/Luke/Chewie/Droids and friends? Sorry, the story was about Vader. This may be a terrible analogy.

    And that's something I think people generally need to start getting over. As someone who has been apart of ME since the beginning I can tell you...
    that the things that keep people talking about the series are the indefinites. People discussing Quarians vs. Geth, the Genophage, even aspects of certain characters. We discussed those things because there were no definite answers. And because of this you could get many different interpretations of the same situation because of how people looked at them.

    Even ME3 is like that. Take for instance the Krogan/Turian conflict or the Geth/Quarian conflict. Even though you can "solve" both of those they are both left very open.

    Like I helped saved the Krogan but even then I understand the risk that it poses(the game itself even does this, supporting both sides so there isn't a "right"). I mean I can place hope in Wrex and Eve and hope they do the right thing, or maybe even then the same mistakes will be repeated over.

    Who knows? And that's why it is fun to debate those things.

    If the game just spells it out for you then you lose that.

    Debating things is fun, but this is end of the trilogy. Shepard's story is over and there has been no real resolution of any kind. The last level of ME3 is a non-ending. It reminds me a lot of Fallout 3 without DLC- you spend the entire game adventuring around and then at the end you get turned into grey goo. Until six months later when the DLC came out.

    Remember the feeling of victory you felt at the end of ME1 and 2- you won, against all odds, and the endings reflected that. ME3 just gives a three-minute cinematic and rolls credits.

    From a writing standpoint, my biggest issue with the ending is that it's a Deus Ex Machina if there ever was one. You meet the Crucible and he tells you that he controls the cycle (but not how or why), tells you synthetic life and organic life can never get along (but why, or acknowledging EDI or the geth or their symbiosis with the quarians), and finally gives you a third option (that is not explained in any detail at all- what, did Joker become a Terminator or is the green glow just for cool factor?).

    That ending pretty much breaks every rule of fiction there is, and does so without putting something well-done in it's place. Who the hell wrote this bullshit? I've seen more technically proficient endings in Harry Potter fanfiction.

    Absolutely this

    override367 on
  • ArkadyArkady Registered User regular
    edited March 2012
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    I honestly dislike the increased unlock for aliens.

    Keep me from getting any decent guns. Well...I've gotten a few but I would like a few more.
    Thing I hate most about the ending
    Your choices for the last 3 games

    MEANINGLESS

    None of it makes a goddamn bit of difference. You do all that, and oh here's 3 fucking buttons pick your ending.

    It soured me so much on human revolution I haven't touched it since, why the fuck would Bioware repeat that

    You know I really don't understand this.
    At the end of the day the choices you make are the choices you make. Saying something is meaningless because things didn't turn out the way you wanted them to is pretty silly, imo.

    I mean I've read the ending and I know that Shepard is going to bite it for the most part. Yet I don't think that somehow invalidates the conversations I have with squadmates about what we're going to do once everything is over.

    The choices you made at the time were in the best interests of the galaxy simple as that.

    That being said I have a much different perspective on these kinds of games than other people.
    I'm saying the choices I made were meaningless because they had no effect on the outcome, the game just told us "here are the endings, pick one" and we get nothing beyond that

    What happened with the quarians, most of their population is on Rannoc, how are they doing?
    Since the Salarians are mostly intact, are they now the dominant power in the galaxy?
    How long until the races were in contact with each other again?
    WHY DID THE NORMANDY CRASH, AND WHERE THE HELL IS THAT PLANET AT?!

    Have you ever thought that the reason those things are
    uncertain because they are uncertain?

    I think people underestimate just what the ending means. At the end of ME3 for better or for worse you have pretty much stopped thr Reapers. You have stopped a race of sentient beings who have been guiding the galaxy by their plans for millions of years now.

    And that's why I think the end of ME3 is great. Because for the first time in those years the universe is finally free of Reapers. Which while refreshing also leaves a sense of uncertainty. Remember that the galaxy has been dependent on Reaper tech to the point where they never bothered to understand, that's gone and with it a future with many possibilities.

    Also, problem I have with those questions is that yeah they would be nice to know but at the end of the day those aren't things that need to be answered immediately.

    Mass Effect has always been Shepard's story and his/her quest to stop the Reapers. That's it. All that other stuff about the Krogans, Quarians, etc while nice were just there to help paint the universe.

    And ME3 does end Shepard's story(which is actually why the special ending annoys me). And even though Shepard's story ends the story of the universe is still ongoing it doesn't have a definite conclusion. If anything the destruction of the Reapers just opens more mysteries.

    As for what will come of Shepard's actions who knows, and I believe that's the point. Many things could happen.

    I don't know I think people are so used to having things spelled out for them that they can't appreciate an open ending.
    End spoilers
    But that's the point. That's why people are
    upset. An open ending isn't an ending. We're attached to far more than just Shep and we don't get to see the outcomes of any of those other decisions. Some of those stories are just as important as the reapers and we don't get to see any conclusions for them. It's terribly unsatisfying. If the last episode of Star Wars was Empire Strikes Back people would be pissed. Vader defeats son and friends, goes to rule the galaxy. You wanted to find out what happened to Han/Lando/Luke/Chewie/Droids and friends? Sorry, the story was about Vader. This may be a terrible analogy.

    And that's something I think people generally need to start getting over. As someone who has been apart of ME since the beginning I can tell you...
    that the things that keep people talking about the series are the indefinites. People discussing Quarians vs. Geth, the Genophage, even aspects of certain characters. We discussed those things because there were no definite answers. And because of this you could get many different interpretations of the same situation because of how people looked at them.

    Even ME3 is like that. Take for instance the Krogan/Turian conflict or the Geth/Quarian conflict. Even though you can "solve" both of those they are both left very open.

    Like I helped saved the Krogan but even then I understand the risk that it poses(the game itself even does this, supporting both sides so there isn't a "right"). I mean I can place hope in Wrex and Eve and hope they do the right thing, or maybe even then the same mistakes will be repeated over.

    Who knows? And that's why it is fun to debate those things.

    If the game just spells it out for you then you lose that.

    My issue with the ending isn't just that it's open ended, it's that 2 of the final 3 decisions you make are just fucking stupid for the series as a whole. Why does destroying the reapers destroy all other AI? And where the fuck did the notion of synthesis even come from? Other than 1 or 2 throwaway conversations? And why is controlling the reapers the paragon decision? It's all just silly. At least the endings of Human Revolution made sense in the setting and were issues the game had been dealing with the whole time. The ending of ME3 is the worst deus ex machina I've ever seen in a game, having a god like figure present us with 3 options a lot of people don't even want. It really just shits all over everything we've done in the series up to this point.

    Or put succinctly; My playthrough was 35 hours. 34 hours and 57 minutes of it were the best time I've ever had in a game and then 3 minutes took a giant steaming shit all over it.

    Arkady on
    untitled-1.jpg
    LoL: failboattootoot
  • DragkoniasDragkonias Registered User regular
    I actually think that would be pretty interesting myself.

    Endgame spoilers/ponderings.
    Like I said, it is my opinion that the mass relays were a construct of the Reapers and the order that they inflicted on the galaxy. By destroying that you pretty much destroy that balance, breaking free from it but making the universe a scary place at the same time.

    If ME4 was a more gritty, wild west RPG where the universe is a much harsher place I would be tickled pink.

  • Inter_dInter_d Registered User regular
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    I honestly dislike the increased unlock for aliens.

    Keep me from getting any decent guns. Well...I've gotten a few but I would like a few more.
    Thing I hate most about the ending
    Your choices for the last 3 games

    MEANINGLESS

    None of it makes a goddamn bit of difference. You do all that, and oh here's 3 fucking buttons pick your ending.

    It soured me so much on human revolution I haven't touched it since, why the fuck would Bioware repeat that

    You know I really don't understand this.
    At the end of the day the choices you make are the choices you make. Saying something is meaningless because things didn't turn out the way you wanted them to is pretty silly, imo.

    I mean I've read the ending and I know that Shepard is going to bite it for the most part. Yet I don't think that somehow invalidates the conversations I have with squadmates about what we're going to do once everything is over.

    The choices you made at the time were in the best interests of the galaxy simple as that.

    That being said I have a much different perspective on these kinds of games than other people.
    I'm saying the choices I made were meaningless because they had no effect on the outcome, the game just told us "here are the endings, pick one" and we get nothing beyond that

    What happened with the quarians, most of their population is on Rannoc, how are they doing?
    Since the Salarians are mostly intact, are they now the dominant power in the galaxy?
    How long until the races were in contact with each other again?
    WHY DID THE NORMANDY CRASH, AND WHERE THE HELL IS THAT PLANET AT?!

    Have you ever thought that the reason those things are
    uncertain because they are uncertain?

    I think people underestimate just what the ending means. At the end of ME3 for better or for worse you have pretty much stopped thr Reapers. You have stopped a race of sentient beings who have been guiding the galaxy by their plans for millions of years now.

    And that's why I think the end of ME3 is great. Because for the first time in those years the universe is finally free of Reapers. Which while refreshing also leaves a sense of uncertainty. Remember that the galaxy has been dependent on Reaper tech to the point where they never bothered to understand, that's gone and with it a future with many possibilities.

    Also, problem I have with those questions is that yeah they would be nice to know but at the end of the day those aren't things that need to be answered immediately.

    Mass Effect has always been Shepard's story and his/her quest to stop the Reapers. That's it. All that other stuff about the Krogans, Quarians, etc while nice were just there to help paint the universe.

    And ME3 does end Shepard's story(which is actually why the special ending annoys me). And even though Shepard's story ends the story of the universe is still ongoing it doesn't have a definite conclusion. If anything the destruction of the Reapers just opens more mysteries.

    As for what will come of Shepard's actions who knows, and I believe that's the point. Many things could happen.

    I don't know I think people are so used to having things spelled out for them that they can't appreciate an open ending.

    So tell me if they had an actual ending that tied up the most pressing loose ends and gave us some actual closure on this story and the wonderful world inside it but you had to work for it by completing some arbitrary set of requirements, would you pick it?

    I'm glad you like the endings. I am.

    I don't. I want closure, I want to know what the effects were of the decisions I made because ending so abruptly with a token epilogue that can be applied to all endings is not doing it for us.

    I'm not telling you to be mad or to demand the everything-spelled-out ending that we want, just don't claim we're philistines because we can't accept such an unsatisfying end to what is an amazing 5 year journey.

    I'm not even saying change the endings, I'd be pleased as punch if they just gave us an actual epilogue that tells us our friends are okay/dead and what the state of the galaxy is after this major war.

  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited March 2012
    Dox the PI wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    I honestly dislike the increased unlock for aliens.

    Keep me from getting any decent guns. Well...I've gotten a few but I would like a few more.
    Thing I hate most about the ending
    Your choices for the last 3 games

    MEANINGLESS

    None of it makes a goddamn bit of difference. You do all that, and oh here's 3 fucking buttons pick your ending.

    It soured me so much on human revolution I haven't touched it since, why the fuck would Bioware repeat that

    You know I really don't understand this.
    At the end of the day the choices you make are the choices you make. Saying something is meaningless because things didn't turn out the way you wanted them to is pretty silly, imo.

    I mean I've read the ending and I know that Shepard is going to bite it for the most part. Yet I don't think that somehow invalidates the conversations I have with squadmates about what we're going to do once everything is over.

    The choices you made at the time were in the best interests of the galaxy simple as that.

    That being said I have a much different perspective on these kinds of games than other people.
    I'm saying the choices I made were meaningless because they had no effect on the outcome, the game just told us "here are the endings, pick one" and we get nothing beyond that

    What happened with the quarians, most of their population is on Rannoc, how are they doing?
    Since the Salarians are mostly intact, are they now the dominant power in the galaxy?
    How long until the races were in contact with each other again?
    WHY DID THE NORMANDY CRASH, AND WHERE THE HELL IS THAT PLANET AT?!

    Have you ever thought that the reason those things are
    uncertain because they are uncertain?

    I think people underestimate just what the ending means. At the end of ME3 for better or for worse you have pretty much stopped thr Reapers. You have stopped a race of sentient beings who have been guiding the galaxy by their plans for millions of years now.

    And that's why I think the end of ME3 is great. Because for the first time in those years the universe is finally free of Reapers. Which while refreshing also leaves a sense of uncertainty. Remember that the galaxy has been dependent on Reaper tech to the point where they never bothered to understand, that's gone and with it a future with many possibilities.

    Also, problem I have with those questions is that yeah they would be nice to know but at the end of the day those aren't things that need to be answered immediately.

    Mass Effect has always been Shepard's story and his/her quest to stop the Reapers. That's it. All that other stuff about the Krogans, Quarians, etc while nice were just there to help paint the universe.

    And ME3 does end Shepard's story(which is actually why the special ending annoys me). And even though Shepard's story ends the story of the universe is still ongoing it doesn't have a definite conclusion. If anything the destruction of the Reapers just opens more mysteries.

    As for what will come of Shepard's actions who knows, and I believe that's the point. Many things could happen.

    I don't know I think people are so used to having things spelled out for them that they can't appreciate an open ending.
    End spoilers
    But that's the point. That's why people are
    upset. An open ending isn't an ending. We're attached to far more than just Shep and we don't get to see the outcomes of any of those other decisions. Some of those stories are just as important as the reapers and we don't get to see any conclusions for them. It's terribly unsatisfying. If the last episode of Star Wars was Empire Strikes Back people would be pissed. Vader defeats son and friends, goes to rule the galaxy. You wanted to find out what happened to Han/Lando/Luke/Chewie/Droids and friends? Sorry, the story was about Vader. This may be a terrible analogy.

    And that's something I think people generally need to start getting over. As someone who has been apart of ME since the beginning I can tell you...
    that the things that keep people talking about the series are the indefinites. People discussing Quarians vs. Geth, the Genophage, even aspects of certain characters. We discussed those things because there were no definite answers. And because of this you could get many different interpretations of the same situation because of how people looked at them.

    Even ME3 is like that. Take for instance the Krogan/Turian conflict or the Geth/Quarian conflict. Even though you can "solve" both of those they are both left very open.

    Like I helped saved the Krogan but even then I understand the risk that it poses(the game itself even does this, supporting both sides so there isn't a "right"). I mean I can place hope in Wrex and Eve and hope they do the right thing, or maybe even then the same mistakes will be repeated over.

    Who knows? And that's why it is fun to debate those things.

    If the game just spells it out for you then you lose that.

    No it doesn't support both sides. Wrex very clearly states he won't be pursuing war against the other races. It's very obviously the moral thing to do. That aside, it doesn't present any closure. If there was another game following this, it'd be fine, but since this is all we get people are upset. At the very least finding out what happened to the characters we know and love would have been great, but instead everything is left unknown. Everything. You make these big decisions and agonize over them only to find out that that decision didn't matter. You'd have gotten a fleet either way, but you never find out the lasting implication of your decision. In ME1 and ME2 you find out what your decisions mean and what they caused, and in ME3 you see the results of many of your decisions. But you get more decisions and you'll never get to find out what happened to those. It breaks from the established trend. If you liked it, great, but people are absolutely justified in being dissatisfied. This isn't a new chapter, it's the last chapter and we'll never get to find out the actual ending. To go back to Star Wars, at the end of that we found out what happened to everyone even though their lives aren't over. There's plenty of extended universe stuff but the stories of those characters at those times were completed. In ME all we get is one of many many characters to complete a whole story.

    And just because someone says something its true?

    If you believe that I've got a million year old penny I'd like to sell you.

    If Bioware releases DLC that takes place after the end of the game I would eat my shoe but be thrilled. Chances are we will get fifty million "new multiplayer map/gun/character" dlcs and a few DLCs that add new missions along the way

    If they announce an ME4, I really have no fucking clue how that'd work without the
    mass relays, you'd be stuck
    my hate will turn to a nerd boner so fucking fast

    More likely we'll get a prequel or some shit
    FTL is still a thing within the galaxy, it's how you travel with the fuel in game
    If anything the lack of Mass Relays could lead to interesting situations where everyone becomes alot more territorial as people are more isolated and getting long distances is harder
    and bootleg reaper tech could start springing up

    See this would be cool


    Dragkonias wrote: »
    I actually think that would be pretty interesting myself.

    Endgame spoilers/ponderings.
    Like I said, it is my opinion that the mass relays were a construct of the Reapers and the order that they inflicted on the galaxy. By destroying that you pretty much destroy that balance, breaking free from it but making the universe a scary place at the same time.

    If ME4 was a more gritty, wild west RPG where the universe is a much harsher place I would be tickled pink.
    I'm still waiting for you to explain the Normandy crash, having a unicorn show up and announce the kingdom is under attack and then cutting off isn't an open ending, it's bad writing

    Now I posted this already but it was in a spoiler.

    This is how you do a good open ending that
    actually ties up your story
    , and hey there isn't even any dialogue (it's from the movie Wall-E by Pixar)

    override367 on
  • RT800RT800 Registered User regular
    edited March 2012
    I keep thinking I wanna go all the way back and create a new character starting at Mass Effect 1
    But then I remember that no matter what I do different, it'll all still boil down to the same three endings.

    So bummed.

    RT800 on
  • DragkoniasDragkonias Registered User regular
    mjek wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    I honestly dislike the increased unlock for aliens.

    Keep me from getting any decent guns. Well...I've gotten a few but I would like a few more.
    Thing I hate most about the ending
    Your choices for the last 3 games

    MEANINGLESS

    None of it makes a goddamn bit of difference. You do all that, and oh here's 3 fucking buttons pick your ending.

    It soured me so much on human revolution I haven't touched it since, why the fuck would Bioware repeat that

    You know I really don't understand this.
    At the end of the day the choices you make are the choices you make. Saying something is meaningless because things didn't turn out the way you wanted them to is pretty silly, imo.

    I mean I've read the ending and I know that Shepard is going to bite it for the most part. Yet I don't think that somehow invalidates the conversations I have with squadmates about what we're going to do once everything is over.

    The choices you made at the time were in the best interests of the galaxy simple as that.

    That being said I have a much different perspective on these kinds of games than other people.
    I'm saying the choices I made were meaningless because they had no effect on the outcome, the game just told us "here are the endings, pick one" and we get nothing beyond that

    What happened with the quarians, most of their population is on Rannoc, how are they doing?
    Since the Salarians are mostly intact, are they now the dominant power in the galaxy?
    How long until the races were in contact with each other again?
    WHY DID THE NORMANDY CRASH, AND WHERE THE HELL IS THAT PLANET AT?!

    Have you ever thought that the reason those things are
    uncertain because they are uncertain?

    I think people underestimate just what the ending means. At the end of ME3 for better or for worse you have pretty much stopped thr Reapers. You have stopped a race of sentient beings who have been guiding the galaxy by their plans for millions of years now.

    And that's why I think the end of ME3 is great. Because for the first time in those years the universe is finally free of Reapers. Which while refreshing also leaves a sense of uncertainty. Remember that the galaxy has been dependent on Reaper tech to the point where they never bothered to understand, that's gone and with it a future with many possibilities.

    Also, problem I have with those questions is that yeah they would be nice to know but at the end of the day those aren't things that need to be answered immediately.

    Mass Effect has always been Shepard's story and his/her quest to stop the Reapers. That's it. All that other stuff about the Krogans, Quarians, etc while nice were just there to help paint the universe.

    And ME3 does end Shepard's story(which is actually why the special ending annoys me). And even though Shepard's story ends the story of the universe is still ongoing it doesn't have a definite conclusion. If anything the destruction of the Reapers just opens more mysteries.

    As for what will come of Shepard's actions who knows, and I believe that's the point. Many things could happen.

    I don't know I think people are so used to having things spelled out for them that they can't appreciate an open ending.
    End spoilers
    But that's the point. That's why people are
    upset. An open ending isn't an ending. We're attached to far more than just Shep and we don't get to see the outcomes of any of those other decisions. Some of those stories are just as important as the reapers and we don't get to see any conclusions for them. It's terribly unsatisfying. If the last episode of Star Wars was Empire Strikes Back people would be pissed. Vader defeats son and friends, goes to rule the galaxy. You wanted to find out what happened to Han/Lando/Luke/Chewie/Droids and friends? Sorry, the story was about Vader. This may be a terrible analogy.

    And that's something I think people generally need to start getting over. As someone who has been apart of ME since the beginning I can tell you...
    that the things that keep people talking about the series are the indefinites. People discussing Quarians vs. Geth, the Genophage, even aspects of certain characters. We discussed those things because there were no definite answers. And because of this you could get many different interpretations of the same situation because of how people looked at them.

    Even ME3 is like that. Take for instance the Krogan/Turian conflict or the Geth/Quarian conflict. Even though you can "solve" both of those they are both left very open.

    Like I helped saved the Krogan but even then I understand the risk that it poses(the game itself even does this, supporting both sides so there isn't a "right"). I mean I can place hope in Wrex and Eve and hope they do the right thing, or maybe even then the same mistakes will be repeated over.

    Who knows? And that's why it is fun to debate those things.

    If the game just spells it out for you then you lose that.

    Debating things is fun, but this is end of the trilogy. Shepard's story is over and there has been no real resolution of any kind. The last level of ME3 is a non-ending. It reminds me a lot of Fallout 3 without DLC- you spend the entire game adventuring around and then at the end you get turned into grey goo. Until six months later when the DLC came out.

    Remember the feeling of victory you felt at the end of ME1 and 2- you won, against all odds, and the endings reflected that. ME3 just gives a three-minute cinematic and rolls credits.

    From a writing standpoint, my biggest issue with the ending is that it's a Deus Ex Machina if there ever was one. You meet the Crucible and he tells you that he controls the cycle (but not how or why), tells you synthetic life and organic life can never get along (but why, or acknowledging EDI or the geth or their symbiosis with the quarians), and finally gives you a third option (that is not explained in any detail at all- what, did Joker become a Terminator or is the green glow just for cool factor?).

    That ending pretty much breaks every rule of fiction there is, and does so without putting something well-done in it's place. Who the hell wrote this bullshit? I've seen more technically proficient endings in Harry Potter fanfiction.

    Meh.
    I would say that the trilogy was full of Deus Ex Machina. IMO, you shouldn't have stood a chance against the Reapers from the get go. But Shepard not only managed to do that but he/she managed to end century old conflicts and finish in time for lunch.

    I agree that the Crucible seems to have been hastily thrown in but at the same time that's not really the point of contention I'm arguing.

    As for what rule of fiction this breaks you're going to have to clarify that exactly.

  • SniperGuySniperGuy Also known as Dohaeris Registered User regular
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    mjek wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    I honestly dislike the increased unlock for aliens.

    Keep me from getting any decent guns. Well...I've gotten a few but I would like a few more.
    Thing I hate most about the ending
    Your choices for the last 3 games

    MEANINGLESS

    None of it makes a goddamn bit of difference. You do all that, and oh here's 3 fucking buttons pick your ending.

    It soured me so much on human revolution I haven't touched it since, why the fuck would Bioware repeat that

    You know I really don't understand this.
    At the end of the day the choices you make are the choices you make. Saying something is meaningless because things didn't turn out the way you wanted them to is pretty silly, imo.

    I mean I've read the ending and I know that Shepard is going to bite it for the most part. Yet I don't think that somehow invalidates the conversations I have with squadmates about what we're going to do once everything is over.

    The choices you made at the time were in the best interests of the galaxy simple as that.

    That being said I have a much different perspective on these kinds of games than other people.
    I'm saying the choices I made were meaningless because they had no effect on the outcome, the game just told us "here are the endings, pick one" and we get nothing beyond that

    What happened with the quarians, most of their population is on Rannoc, how are they doing?
    Since the Salarians are mostly intact, are they now the dominant power in the galaxy?
    How long until the races were in contact with each other again?
    WHY DID THE NORMANDY CRASH, AND WHERE THE HELL IS THAT PLANET AT?!

    Have you ever thought that the reason those things are
    uncertain because they are uncertain?

    I think people underestimate just what the ending means. At the end of ME3 for better or for worse you have pretty much stopped thr Reapers. You have stopped a race of sentient beings who have been guiding the galaxy by their plans for millions of years now.

    And that's why I think the end of ME3 is great. Because for the first time in those years the universe is finally free of Reapers. Which while refreshing also leaves a sense of uncertainty. Remember that the galaxy has been dependent on Reaper tech to the point where they never bothered to understand, that's gone and with it a future with many possibilities.

    Also, problem I have with those questions is that yeah they would be nice to know but at the end of the day those aren't things that need to be answered immediately.

    Mass Effect has always been Shepard's story and his/her quest to stop the Reapers. That's it. All that other stuff about the Krogans, Quarians, etc while nice were just there to help paint the universe.

    And ME3 does end Shepard's story(which is actually why the special ending annoys me). And even though Shepard's story ends the story of the universe is still ongoing it doesn't have a definite conclusion. If anything the destruction of the Reapers just opens more mysteries.

    As for what will come of Shepard's actions who knows, and I believe that's the point. Many things could happen.

    I don't know I think people are so used to having things spelled out for them that they can't appreciate an open ending.
    End spoilers
    But that's the point. That's why people are
    upset. An open ending isn't an ending. We're attached to far more than just Shep and we don't get to see the outcomes of any of those other decisions. Some of those stories are just as important as the reapers and we don't get to see any conclusions for them. It's terribly unsatisfying. If the last episode of Star Wars was Empire Strikes Back people would be pissed. Vader defeats son and friends, goes to rule the galaxy. You wanted to find out what happened to Han/Lando/Luke/Chewie/Droids and friends? Sorry, the story was about Vader. This may be a terrible analogy.

    And that's something I think people generally need to start getting over. As someone who has been apart of ME since the beginning I can tell you...
    that the things that keep people talking about the series are the indefinites. People discussing Quarians vs. Geth, the Genophage, even aspects of certain characters. We discussed those things because there were no definite answers. And because of this you could get many different interpretations of the same situation because of how people looked at them.

    Even ME3 is like that. Take for instance the Krogan/Turian conflict or the Geth/Quarian conflict. Even though you can "solve" both of those they are both left very open.

    Like I helped saved the Krogan but even then I understand the risk that it poses(the game itself even does this, supporting both sides so there isn't a "right"). I mean I can place hope in Wrex and Eve and hope they do the right thing, or maybe even then the same mistakes will be repeated over.

    Who knows? And that's why it is fun to debate those things.

    If the game just spells it out for you then you lose that.

    Debating things is fun, but this is end of the trilogy. Shepard's story is over and there has been no real resolution of any kind. The last level of ME3 is a non-ending. It reminds me a lot of Fallout 3 without DLC- you spend the entire game adventuring around and then at the end you get turned into grey goo. Until six months later when the DLC came out.

    Remember the feeling of victory you felt at the end of ME1 and 2- you won, against all odds, and the endings reflected that. ME3 just gives a three-minute cinematic and rolls credits.

    From a writing standpoint, my biggest issue with the ending is that it's a Deus Ex Machina if there ever was one. You meet the Crucible and he tells you that he controls the cycle (but not how or why), tells you synthetic life and organic life can never get along (but why, or acknowledging EDI or the geth or their symbiosis with the quarians), and finally gives you a third option (that is not explained in any detail at all- what, did Joker become a Terminator or is the green glow just for cool factor?).

    That ending pretty much breaks every rule of fiction there is, and does so without putting something well-done in it's place. Who the hell wrote this bullshit? I've seen more technically proficient endings in Harry Potter fanfiction.

    Meh.
    I would say that the trilogy was full of Deus Ex Machina. IMO, you shouldn't have stood a chance against the Reapers from the get go. But Shepard not only managed to do that but he/she managed to end century old conflicts and finish in time for lunch.

    I agree that the Crucible seems to have been hastily thrown in but at the same time that's not really the point of contention I'm arguing.

    As for what rule of fiction this breaks you're going to have to clarify that exactly.

    Um, no?
    The reason you stand a chance is because all the other cycles have been helping build up to allow one cycle, this one, to stop them. Virgil helps with the Conduit on Ilos and you get the Crucible. What other Deux Ex machinas were there?

    Twitch Streaming W/TH/F and more
    Dohaeris210 on PSN / SniperGuy710 on Xbone Live
    Sometimes, I make YouTube videos
  • DragkoniasDragkonias Registered User regular
    Inter_d wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    I honestly dislike the increased unlock for aliens.

    Keep me from getting any decent guns. Well...I've gotten a few but I would like a few more.
    Thing I hate most about the ending
    Your choices for the last 3 games

    MEANINGLESS

    None of it makes a goddamn bit of difference. You do all that, and oh here's 3 fucking buttons pick your ending.

    It soured me so much on human revolution I haven't touched it since, why the fuck would Bioware repeat that

    You know I really don't understand this.
    At the end of the day the choices you make are the choices you make. Saying something is meaningless because things didn't turn out the way you wanted them to is pretty silly, imo.

    I mean I've read the ending and I know that Shepard is going to bite it for the most part. Yet I don't think that somehow invalidates the conversations I have with squadmates about what we're going to do once everything is over.

    The choices you made at the time were in the best interests of the galaxy simple as that.

    That being said I have a much different perspective on these kinds of games than other people.
    I'm saying the choices I made were meaningless because they had no effect on the outcome, the game just told us "here are the endings, pick one" and we get nothing beyond that

    What happened with the quarians, most of their population is on Rannoc, how are they doing?
    Since the Salarians are mostly intact, are they now the dominant power in the galaxy?
    How long until the races were in contact with each other again?
    WHY DID THE NORMANDY CRASH, AND WHERE THE HELL IS THAT PLANET AT?!

    Have you ever thought that the reason those things are
    uncertain because they are uncertain?

    I think people underestimate just what the ending means. At the end of ME3 for better or for worse you have pretty much stopped thr Reapers. You have stopped a race of sentient beings who have been guiding the galaxy by their plans for millions of years now.

    And that's why I think the end of ME3 is great. Because for the first time in those years the universe is finally free of Reapers. Which while refreshing also leaves a sense of uncertainty. Remember that the galaxy has been dependent on Reaper tech to the point where they never bothered to understand, that's gone and with it a future with many possibilities.

    Also, problem I have with those questions is that yeah they would be nice to know but at the end of the day those aren't things that need to be answered immediately.

    Mass Effect has always been Shepard's story and his/her quest to stop the Reapers. That's it. All that other stuff about the Krogans, Quarians, etc while nice were just there to help paint the universe.

    And ME3 does end Shepard's story(which is actually why the special ending annoys me). And even though Shepard's story ends the story of the universe is still ongoing it doesn't have a definite conclusion. If anything the destruction of the Reapers just opens more mysteries.

    As for what will come of Shepard's actions who knows, and I believe that's the point. Many things could happen.

    I don't know I think people are so used to having things spelled out for them that they can't appreciate an open ending.

    So tell me if they had an actual ending that tied up the most pressing loose ends and gave us some actual closure on this story and the wonderful world inside it but you had to work for it by completing some arbitrary set of requirements, would you pick it?

    I'm glad you like the endings. I am.

    I don't. I want closure, I want to know what the effects were of the decisions I made because ending so abruptly with a token epilogue that can be applied to all endings is not doing it for us.

    I'm not telling you to be mad or to demand the everything-spelled-out ending that we want, just don't claim we're philistines because we can't accept such an unsatisfying end to what is an amazing 5 year journey.

    I'm not even saying change the endings, I'd be pleased as punch if they just gave us an actual epilogue that tells us our friends are okay/dead and what the state of the galaxy is after this major war.

    Who ever said I was mad? Believe me I love defending my points and I'm downright giddy right now.
    And like I said for the most part I believe Mass Effect close what he needs to close, that being Shepard's story. Shepard fought to give the galaxy and chance at a future free from the control of the Reapers and he did that.

    What they do with that is up to them.

    As for what happened to your friends. Yeah, sure, I guess that would be nice to know but it isn't needed.

    I believe your crew gets stranded I guess that's scary. It would be simple if the game just told you they died, or if someone told you they lived but they didn't.

    I myself believe that it would kind of cool in the way if they died off there, sacrificing everything along with Shepard to create a future. Though I could also see how some would want to believe they made it and things didn't end badly.

    Interesting how you look at it.

  • psyck0psyck0 Registered User regular
    eugh 5v4 game that we dragged out to 20 min. At the end of it, the asshole gunslinger on our team was 2/16 with 29 bots score. 29 bots in 20 fucking minutes. Fucking pubbies.

    Play Smash Bros 3DS with me! 4399-1034-5444
    steam_sig.png
  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    I don't know why but this game's end reminded me most of kotor 2's ending

    in that doing it makes me want to not play a game anymore than less than an hour beforehand I would swear to you (and be absolutely sincere) that I would be playing nonstop for at least the next month in replays because it's so good

  • DragkoniasDragkonias Registered User regular
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    mjek wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    I honestly dislike the increased unlock for aliens.

    Keep me from getting any decent guns. Well...I've gotten a few but I would like a few more.
    Thing I hate most about the ending
    Your choices for the last 3 games

    MEANINGLESS

    None of it makes a goddamn bit of difference. You do all that, and oh here's 3 fucking buttons pick your ending.

    It soured me so much on human revolution I haven't touched it since, why the fuck would Bioware repeat that

    You know I really don't understand this.
    At the end of the day the choices you make are the choices you make. Saying something is meaningless because things didn't turn out the way you wanted them to is pretty silly, imo.

    I mean I've read the ending and I know that Shepard is going to bite it for the most part. Yet I don't think that somehow invalidates the conversations I have with squadmates about what we're going to do once everything is over.

    The choices you made at the time were in the best interests of the galaxy simple as that.

    That being said I have a much different perspective on these kinds of games than other people.
    I'm saying the choices I made were meaningless because they had no effect on the outcome, the game just told us "here are the endings, pick one" and we get nothing beyond that

    What happened with the quarians, most of their population is on Rannoc, how are they doing?
    Since the Salarians are mostly intact, are they now the dominant power in the galaxy?
    How long until the races were in contact with each other again?
    WHY DID THE NORMANDY CRASH, AND WHERE THE HELL IS THAT PLANET AT?!

    Have you ever thought that the reason those things are
    uncertain because they are uncertain?

    I think people underestimate just what the ending means. At the end of ME3 for better or for worse you have pretty much stopped thr Reapers. You have stopped a race of sentient beings who have been guiding the galaxy by their plans for millions of years now.

    And that's why I think the end of ME3 is great. Because for the first time in those years the universe is finally free of Reapers. Which while refreshing also leaves a sense of uncertainty. Remember that the galaxy has been dependent on Reaper tech to the point where they never bothered to understand, that's gone and with it a future with many possibilities.

    Also, problem I have with those questions is that yeah they would be nice to know but at the end of the day those aren't things that need to be answered immediately.

    Mass Effect has always been Shepard's story and his/her quest to stop the Reapers. That's it. All that other stuff about the Krogans, Quarians, etc while nice were just there to help paint the universe.

    And ME3 does end Shepard's story(which is actually why the special ending annoys me). And even though Shepard's story ends the story of the universe is still ongoing it doesn't have a definite conclusion. If anything the destruction of the Reapers just opens more mysteries.

    As for what will come of Shepard's actions who knows, and I believe that's the point. Many things could happen.

    I don't know I think people are so used to having things spelled out for them that they can't appreciate an open ending.
    End spoilers
    But that's the point. That's why people are
    upset. An open ending isn't an ending. We're attached to far more than just Shep and we don't get to see the outcomes of any of those other decisions. Some of those stories are just as important as the reapers and we don't get to see any conclusions for them. It's terribly unsatisfying. If the last episode of Star Wars was Empire Strikes Back people would be pissed. Vader defeats son and friends, goes to rule the galaxy. You wanted to find out what happened to Han/Lando/Luke/Chewie/Droids and friends? Sorry, the story was about Vader. This may be a terrible analogy.

    And that's something I think people generally need to start getting over. As someone who has been apart of ME since the beginning I can tell you...
    that the things that keep people talking about the series are the indefinites. People discussing Quarians vs. Geth, the Genophage, even aspects of certain characters. We discussed those things because there were no definite answers. And because of this you could get many different interpretations of the same situation because of how people looked at them.

    Even ME3 is like that. Take for instance the Krogan/Turian conflict or the Geth/Quarian conflict. Even though you can "solve" both of those they are both left very open.

    Like I helped saved the Krogan but even then I understand the risk that it poses(the game itself even does this, supporting both sides so there isn't a "right"). I mean I can place hope in Wrex and Eve and hope they do the right thing, or maybe even then the same mistakes will be repeated over.

    Who knows? And that's why it is fun to debate those things.

    If the game just spells it out for you then you lose that.

    Debating things is fun, but this is end of the trilogy. Shepard's story is over and there has been no real resolution of any kind. The last level of ME3 is a non-ending. It reminds me a lot of Fallout 3 without DLC- you spend the entire game adventuring around and then at the end you get turned into grey goo. Until six months later when the DLC came out.

    Remember the feeling of victory you felt at the end of ME1 and 2- you won, against all odds, and the endings reflected that. ME3 just gives a three-minute cinematic and rolls credits.

    From a writing standpoint, my biggest issue with the ending is that it's a Deus Ex Machina if there ever was one. You meet the Crucible and he tells you that he controls the cycle (but not how or why), tells you synthetic life and organic life can never get along (but why, or acknowledging EDI or the geth or their symbiosis with the quarians), and finally gives you a third option (that is not explained in any detail at all- what, did Joker become a Terminator or is the green glow just for cool factor?).

    That ending pretty much breaks every rule of fiction there is, and does so without putting something well-done in it's place. Who the hell wrote this bullshit? I've seen more technically proficient endings in Harry Potter fanfiction.

    Meh.
    I would say that the trilogy was full of Deus Ex Machina. IMO, you shouldn't have stood a chance against the Reapers from the get go. But Shepard not only managed to do that but he/she managed to end century old conflicts and finish in time for lunch.

    I agree that the Crucible seems to have been hastily thrown in but at the same time that's not really the point of contention I'm arguing.

    As for what rule of fiction this breaks you're going to have to clarify that exactly.

    Um, no?
    The reason you stand a chance is because all the other cycles have been helping build up to allow one cycle, this one, to stop them. Virgil helps with the Conduit on Ilos and you get the Crucible. What other Deux Ex machinas were there?

    Didn't you just say something about agreeing to disagree?

    I mean if you want to continue our debate I'm more than happy to. But I'm not going to bother if you just back out every time you don't feel like continuing.

  • BlackDragon480BlackDragon480 Bluster Kerfuffle Master of Windy ImportRegistered User regular
    edited March 2012
    Not to interrupt what I'm sure is a wonderful debate about the ending, but I'm just now finishing up on Tuchanka:
    The chase through the ruins once Kalros starts tailing the trucks is full of awesome dialog between Eve, Wrex, and Mordin. I especially like this exchange:

    Mordin: "Thresher Maw getting closer!!"

    Wrex: "Tell me something I don't know!"

    Mordin: "Metal content of truck makes excellent iron supplement for maw's diet."

    BlackDragon480 on
    First they came for the Muslims and we said...NOT TODAY MOTHERFUCKERS!
  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited March 2012
    The ending
    is a literal fucking deus ex machina!

    A GOD WALKS OUT OF A MACHINE AND HANDS YOU THE ENDING! Seriously, did nobody at Bioware realize that was what they were doing?!

    override367 on
  • RT800RT800 Registered User regular
    edited March 2012
    I fully expected a
    Deus Ex Machina solution to the Reaper threat.

    I mean they had given us nothing throughout games one and two. Of course they pulled a magical Reaper-killing gun out of their ass at the last minute.

    It doesn't bother me. What bothers me is what happened when that gun was fired.

    RT800 on
  • DragkoniasDragkonias Registered User regular
    edited March 2012
    RT800 wrote: »
    I fully expected a
    Deus Ex Machina solution to the Reaper threat.

    I mean they had given us nothing throughout games one and two. Of course they pulled a magical Reaper-killing gun out of their ass at the last minute.

    It doesn't bother me. What bothers me is what happened when that gun was fired.

    Pretty much. About the

    *Ending stuff*
    Deus Ex Machina. There is what...like 4 year between ME1 to ME3...no way you were beating the Reapers without divine intervention of some sort.

    Dragkonias on
  • Black_HeartBlack_Heart Registered User regular
    Man I don't understand how people are blowing through this game so fast. ME2 took me about 42 hours on my first playthrough, about 2 weeks of playing everyday.

    Do people just rush through to get to the ending, ignoring all the side missions, extra content, conversations, etc? Is the game that short? Or am I the only person who works a full time job? I picked it up on Tuesday, and I'm about 17 hours in and I still feel like I've barely scratched the surface of this game.

  • DragkoniasDragkonias Registered User regular
    Man I don't understand how people are blowing through this game so fast. ME2 took me about 42 hours on my first playthrough, about 2 weeks of playing everyday.

    Do people just rush through to get to the ending, ignoring all the side missions, extra content, conversations, etc? Is the game that short? Or am I the only person who works a full time job? I picked it up on Tuesday, and I'm about 17 hours in and I still feel like I've barely scratched the surface of this game.

    I've actually watched the ending for the most part. I'm only 3/4ths through the real game.

    Honestly I didn't even want to argue the ending until I completely experienced it. But I've had some stuff I've wanted to say about what I have observed so far and I disagreed with a couple of things being said.

  • SniperGuySniperGuy Also known as Dohaeris Registered User regular
    edited March 2012
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    mjek wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    I honestly dislike the increased unlock for aliens.

    Keep me from getting any decent guns. Well...I've gotten a few but I would like a few more.
    Thing I hate most about the ending
    Your choices for the last 3 games

    MEANINGLESS

    None of it makes a goddamn bit of difference. You do all that, and oh here's 3 fucking buttons pick your ending.

    It soured me so much on human revolution I haven't touched it since, why the fuck would Bioware repeat that

    You know I really don't understand this.
    At the end of the day the choices you make are the choices you make. Saying something is meaningless because things didn't turn out the way you wanted them to is pretty silly, imo.

    I mean I've read the ending and I know that Shepard is going to bite it for the most part. Yet I don't think that somehow invalidates the conversations I have with squadmates about what we're going to do once everything is over.

    The choices you made at the time were in the best interests of the galaxy simple as that.

    That being said I have a much different perspective on these kinds of games than other people.
    I'm saying the choices I made were meaningless because they had no effect on the outcome, the game just told us "here are the endings, pick one" and we get nothing beyond that

    What happened with the quarians, most of their population is on Rannoc, how are they doing?
    Since the Salarians are mostly intact, are they now the dominant power in the galaxy?
    How long until the races were in contact with each other again?
    WHY DID THE NORMANDY CRASH, AND WHERE THE HELL IS THAT PLANET AT?!

    Have you ever thought that the reason those things are
    uncertain because they are uncertain?

    I think people underestimate just what the ending means. At the end of ME3 for better or for worse you have pretty much stopped thr Reapers. You have stopped a race of sentient beings who have been guiding the galaxy by their plans for millions of years now.

    And that's why I think the end of ME3 is great. Because for the first time in those years the universe is finally free of Reapers. Which while refreshing also leaves a sense of uncertainty. Remember that the galaxy has been dependent on Reaper tech to the point where they never bothered to understand, that's gone and with it a future with many possibilities.

    Also, problem I have with those questions is that yeah they would be nice to know but at the end of the day those aren't things that need to be answered immediately.

    Mass Effect has always been Shepard's story and his/her quest to stop the Reapers. That's it. All that other stuff about the Krogans, Quarians, etc while nice were just there to help paint the universe.

    And ME3 does end Shepard's story(which is actually why the special ending annoys me). And even though Shepard's story ends the story of the universe is still ongoing it doesn't have a definite conclusion. If anything the destruction of the Reapers just opens more mysteries.

    As for what will come of Shepard's actions who knows, and I believe that's the point. Many things could happen.

    I don't know I think people are so used to having things spelled out for them that they can't appreciate an open ending.
    End spoilers
    But that's the point. That's why people are
    upset. An open ending isn't an ending. We're attached to far more than just Shep and we don't get to see the outcomes of any of those other decisions. Some of those stories are just as important as the reapers and we don't get to see any conclusions for them. It's terribly unsatisfying. If the last episode of Star Wars was Empire Strikes Back people would be pissed. Vader defeats son and friends, goes to rule the galaxy. You wanted to find out what happened to Han/Lando/Luke/Chewie/Droids and friends? Sorry, the story was about Vader. This may be a terrible analogy.

    And that's something I think people generally need to start getting over. As someone who has been apart of ME since the beginning I can tell you...
    that the things that keep people talking about the series are the indefinites. People discussing Quarians vs. Geth, the Genophage, even aspects of certain characters. We discussed those things because there were no definite answers. And because of this you could get many different interpretations of the same situation because of how people looked at them.

    Even ME3 is like that. Take for instance the Krogan/Turian conflict or the Geth/Quarian conflict. Even though you can "solve" both of those they are both left very open.

    Like I helped saved the Krogan but even then I understand the risk that it poses(the game itself even does this, supporting both sides so there isn't a "right"). I mean I can place hope in Wrex and Eve and hope they do the right thing, or maybe even then the same mistakes will be repeated over.

    Who knows? And that's why it is fun to debate those things.

    If the game just spells it out for you then you lose that.

    Debating things is fun, but this is end of the trilogy. Shepard's story is over and there has been no real resolution of any kind. The last level of ME3 is a non-ending. It reminds me a lot of Fallout 3 without DLC- you spend the entire game adventuring around and then at the end you get turned into grey goo. Until six months later when the DLC came out.

    Remember the feeling of victory you felt at the end of ME1 and 2- you won, against all odds, and the endings reflected that. ME3 just gives a three-minute cinematic and rolls credits.

    From a writing standpoint, my biggest issue with the ending is that it's a Deus Ex Machina if there ever was one. You meet the Crucible and he tells you that he controls the cycle (but not how or why), tells you synthetic life and organic life can never get along (but why, or acknowledging EDI or the geth or their symbiosis with the quarians), and finally gives you a third option (that is not explained in any detail at all- what, did Joker become a Terminator or is the green glow just for cool factor?).

    That ending pretty much breaks every rule of fiction there is, and does so without putting something well-done in it's place. Who the hell wrote this bullshit? I've seen more technically proficient endings in Harry Potter fanfiction.

    Meh.
    I would say that the trilogy was full of Deus Ex Machina. IMO, you shouldn't have stood a chance against the Reapers from the get go. But Shepard not only managed to do that but he/she managed to end century old conflicts and finish in time for lunch.

    I agree that the Crucible seems to have been hastily thrown in but at the same time that's not really the point of contention I'm arguing.

    As for what rule of fiction this breaks you're going to have to clarify that exactly.

    Um, no?
    The reason you stand a chance is because all the other cycles have been helping build up to allow one cycle, this one, to stop them. Virgil helps with the Conduit on Ilos and you get the Crucible. What other Deux Ex machinas were there?

    Didn't you just say something about agreeing to disagree?

    I mean if you want to continue our debate I'm more than happy to. But I'm not going to bother if you just back out every time you don't feel like continuing.

    I was more meaning the thing about the penny you said, not the discussion about endings on the whole. I am curious as to what
    Other deux ex machinas there were in ME1 and ME2. You do stand a chance against the Reapers from the get go for several very specific reasons that are well explained.


    edit: Also, your "There is what...like 4 year between ME1 to ME3...no way you were beating the Reapers without divine intervention of some sort." Uh, why not? They had a bunch of fleets sitting around anyway. Why is this unreasonable? They even manage to kill several without Shep's help.

    SniperGuy on
    Twitch Streaming W/TH/F and more
    Dohaeris210 on PSN / SniperGuy710 on Xbone Live
    Sometimes, I make YouTube videos
  • YnuuYnuu Registered User regular
    edited March 2012
    Yea (endgame spoilers 'n such):
    Yea, I was expecting a Prothean nuke or something - I like the gradual Crucible build up better, though. The bits of knowledge that escaped the cycle being passed down until, finally, it was time to kick some Reaper ass.

    Really, I don't have a problem with the endings (although the presentation of em could have been better, I especially never really cared for the little kid that kept popping up throughout the game). They all changed the galaxy in some pretty dramatic (and, I think, interesting) ways that could be explored in further adventures in the Mass Effect universe.

    I want an epilogue, though. Not to know every little detail or to plot the course of the galaxy or anything. I just want to know what happened to my buddies because it is literally killing me. Heart attack and everything.

    Still loved the absolute shit out of this game though. I'd put Tuchanka as my favorite, at the moment. That was so excellently done I'm having trouble believing I actually played through it.

    Ynuu on
  • DragkoniasDragkonias Registered User regular
    edited March 2012
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    mjek wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    I honestly dislike the increased unlock for aliens.

    Keep me from getting any decent guns. Well...I've gotten a few but I would like a few more.
    Thing I hate most about the ending
    Your choices for the last 3 games

    MEANINGLESS

    None of it makes a goddamn bit of difference. You do all that, and oh here's 3 fucking buttons pick your ending.

    It soured me so much on human revolution I haven't touched it since, why the fuck would Bioware repeat that

    You know I really don't understand this.
    At the end of the day the choices you make are the choices you make. Saying something is meaningless because things didn't turn out the way you wanted them to is pretty silly, imo.

    I mean I've read the ending and I know that Shepard is going to bite it for the most part. Yet I don't think that somehow invalidates the conversations I have with squadmates about what we're going to do once everything is over.

    The choices you made at the time were in the best interests of the galaxy simple as that.

    That being said I have a much different perspective on these kinds of games than other people.
    I'm saying the choices I made were meaningless because they had no effect on the outcome, the game just told us "here are the endings, pick one" and we get nothing beyond that

    What happened with the quarians, most of their population is on Rannoc, how are they doing?
    Since the Salarians are mostly intact, are they now the dominant power in the galaxy?
    How long until the races were in contact with each other again?
    WHY DID THE NORMANDY CRASH, AND WHERE THE HELL IS THAT PLANET AT?!

    Have you ever thought that the reason those things are
    uncertain because they are uncertain?

    I think people underestimate just what the ending means. At the end of ME3 for better or for worse you have pretty much stopped thr Reapers. You have stopped a race of sentient beings who have been guiding the galaxy by their plans for millions of years now.

    And that's why I think the end of ME3 is great. Because for the first time in those years the universe is finally free of Reapers. Which while refreshing also leaves a sense of uncertainty. Remember that the galaxy has been dependent on Reaper tech to the point where they never bothered to understand, that's gone and with it a future with many possibilities.

    Also, problem I have with those questions is that yeah they would be nice to know but at the end of the day those aren't things that need to be answered immediately.

    Mass Effect has always been Shepard's story and his/her quest to stop the Reapers. That's it. All that other stuff about the Krogans, Quarians, etc while nice were just there to help paint the universe.

    And ME3 does end Shepard's story(which is actually why the special ending annoys me). And even though Shepard's story ends the story of the universe is still ongoing it doesn't have a definite conclusion. If anything the destruction of the Reapers just opens more mysteries.

    As for what will come of Shepard's actions who knows, and I believe that's the point. Many things could happen.

    I don't know I think people are so used to having things spelled out for them that they can't appreciate an open ending.
    End spoilers
    But that's the point. That's why people are
    upset. An open ending isn't an ending. We're attached to far more than just Shep and we don't get to see the outcomes of any of those other decisions. Some of those stories are just as important as the reapers and we don't get to see any conclusions for them. It's terribly unsatisfying. If the last episode of Star Wars was Empire Strikes Back people would be pissed. Vader defeats son and friends, goes to rule the galaxy. You wanted to find out what happened to Han/Lando/Luke/Chewie/Droids and friends? Sorry, the story was about Vader. This may be a terrible analogy.

    And that's something I think people generally need to start getting over. As someone who has been apart of ME since the beginning I can tell you...
    that the things that keep people talking about the series are the indefinites. People discussing Quarians vs. Geth, the Genophage, even aspects of certain characters. We discussed those things because there were no definite answers. And because of this you could get many different interpretations of the same situation because of how people looked at them.

    Even ME3 is like that. Take for instance the Krogan/Turian conflict or the Geth/Quarian conflict. Even though you can "solve" both of those they are both left very open.

    Like I helped saved the Krogan but even then I understand the risk that it poses(the game itself even does this, supporting both sides so there isn't a "right"). I mean I can place hope in Wrex and Eve and hope they do the right thing, or maybe even then the same mistakes will be repeated over.

    Who knows? And that's why it is fun to debate those things.

    If the game just spells it out for you then you lose that.

    Debating things is fun, but this is end of the trilogy. Shepard's story is over and there has been no real resolution of any kind. The last level of ME3 is a non-ending. It reminds me a lot of Fallout 3 without DLC- you spend the entire game adventuring around and then at the end you get turned into grey goo. Until six months later when the DLC came out.

    Remember the feeling of victory you felt at the end of ME1 and 2- you won, against all odds, and the endings reflected that. ME3 just gives a three-minute cinematic and rolls credits.

    From a writing standpoint, my biggest issue with the ending is that it's a Deus Ex Machina if there ever was one. You meet the Crucible and he tells you that he controls the cycle (but not how or why), tells you synthetic life and organic life can never get along (but why, or acknowledging EDI or the geth or their symbiosis with the quarians), and finally gives you a third option (that is not explained in any detail at all- what, did Joker become a Terminator or is the green glow just for cool factor?).

    That ending pretty much breaks every rule of fiction there is, and does so without putting something well-done in it's place. Who the hell wrote this bullshit? I've seen more technically proficient endings in Harry Potter fanfiction.

    Meh.
    I would say that the trilogy was full of Deus Ex Machina. IMO, you shouldn't have stood a chance against the Reapers from the get go. But Shepard not only managed to do that but he/she managed to end century old conflicts and finish in time for lunch.

    I agree that the Crucible seems to have been hastily thrown in but at the same time that's not really the point of contention I'm arguing.

    As for what rule of fiction this breaks you're going to have to clarify that exactly.

    Um, no?
    The reason you stand a chance is because all the other cycles have been helping build up to allow one cycle, this one, to stop them. Virgil helps with the Conduit on Ilos and you get the Crucible. What other Deux Ex machinas were there?

    Didn't you just say something about agreeing to disagree?

    I mean if you want to continue our debate I'm more than happy to. But I'm not going to bother if you just back out every time you don't feel like continuing.

    I was more meaning the thing about the penny you said, not the discussion about endings on the whole. I am curious as to what
    Other deux ex machinas there were in ME1 and ME2. You do stand a chance against the Reapers from the get go for several very specific reasons that are well explained.

    You make a good point. I'm guessing the reason that stuff is so jarring is because of how quickly its thrown in your lap.
    Like the Crucible...you mean that stuff has been sitting in Alliance space for decades and I just learn about it now?

    If not Deus Ex Machina...that's really convenient. If anything some buildup would have been nice.

    Dragkonias on
  • ExtreaminatusExtreaminatus Registered User regular
    I took my time with it, did the side missions, enjoyed the conversations, played like I thought it would be awesome if it were a movie on the big screen.

    I also happen to work 12-hour shifts, so I have most of my week off, which allowed me to marathon my first run through.

    Preacher wrote: »
    There are plenty of people out there that believe in white supremacy and sweet sweet big foot dick.
  • Captain CarrotCaptain Carrot Alexandria, VARegistered User regular
    RT800 wrote: »
    I fully expected a
    Deus Ex Machina solution to the Reaper threat.

    I mean they had given us nothing throughout games one and two. Of course they pulled a magical Reaper-killing gun out of their ass at the last minute.

    It doesn't bother me. What bothers me is what happened when that gun was fired.

    Also, it would have been nice if they hadn't completely dropped the
    dark energy subplot from 2. That's more interesting than the cliched "robots always hate humans and try to kill them" crap.
    I guess I'll just have to hope that there's a patch or DLC that gives closure for my choices during the series.

  • SniperGuySniperGuy Also known as Dohaeris Registered User regular
    To agree with Ynuu, ending spoilers
    I don't mind what happened in the endings, I mind what we didn't get to see of the endings. The Normandy crash was weird and out of place though. I suppose he had just used a Relay and the explosion thing caught up with him during flight, throwing Joker and crew to that new planet?

    Twitch Streaming W/TH/F and more
    Dohaeris210 on PSN / SniperGuy710 on Xbone Live
    Sometimes, I make YouTube videos
  • Captain CarrotCaptain Carrot Alexandria, VARegistered User regular
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    To agree with Ynuu, ending spoilers
    I don't mind what happened in the endings, I mind what we didn't get to see of the endings. The Normandy crash was weird and out of place though. I suppose he had just used a Relay and the explosion thing caught up with him during flight, throwing Joker and crew to that new planet?

    I think he was betting that
    the Citadel and Crucible exploding would do the same thing that happened in Arrival; there was no way to save Shepard, so he had to get the hell out of there, and using the Charon Relay to leave Sol System was the safest option.

  • TejsTejs Registered User regular
    Ok, so I just finished up my canon playthrough with my Paragon Engineer Maleshep. Read through a bunch of spoiler tags of other people now that I am done, and this is my impression:
    ENDGAME SPOILERS, BEWARE

    1) WTF. What the hell was that ending? At least I am not alone in wondering what brand of special drugs they were on with that ending. The rest of the game and writing was great, but the ending has left a completely sour taste in my mouth. I was really, really hoping it would not have a Battlestar Galactica ending, and then they just do a complete 180 and go into mystical crap. I chose synthesis, since it seemed like the "best" option. What an extreme letdown.

    2) How the hell did Liara or any of those guys get back onto the Normandy before I got into the beam transporter? That's the only way to explain why Joker is running like hell (like some kind of coward in the biggest space battle of all time) for him to get caught in the mass effect relay collapsing.

    3) Absolutely no closure on most of the storyline I cared about. I dont see anything that happens to any of my squadmates in any meaningful fashion after the citadel activating thing. Congrats, you crash landed on a strange planet. I hope it's not the same planet that Jacob's dad landed on, because you guys are effed now.

    4) It just seems like they were going so well on the storyline, and then ran out of budget / time or something and threw some kind of half mystical ending together. The creepy post credits cinematic was just oddly placed as well. The only way to have made it better would be to have some Krogans retelling stories of the "Shepard".

  • Triple BTriple B Bastard of the North MARegistered User regular
    Question about readiness and effectiveness and the point in the game where it begins to matter:
    Is it the assault on the Cerberus HQ? When you track down TIM, I mean. I'm weary, because Hackett was all "This may as well be the first step in our attack on Earth.", so I'm kinda wondering. I haven't yet committed to assaulting TIM's base yet, because I'm hoping for an answer here. Are my instincts correct and I should finish up any sidequests/get a few extra % of readiness in multiplayer before starting this assault?

    steam_sig.png XBL: FiveAgainst1
  • mjekmjek Registered User
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    mjek wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    Dragkonias wrote: »
    I honestly dislike the increased unlock for aliens.

    Keep me from getting any decent guns. Well...I've gotten a few but I would like a few more.
    Thing I hate most about the ending
    Your choices for the last 3 games

    MEANINGLESS

    None of it makes a goddamn bit of difference. You do all that, and oh here's 3 fucking buttons pick your ending.

    It soured me so much on human revolution I haven't touched it since, why the fuck would Bioware repeat that

    You know I really don't understand this.
    At the end of the day the choices you make are the choices you make. Saying something is meaningless because things didn't turn out the way you wanted them to is pretty silly, imo.

    I mean I've read the ending and I know that Shepard is going to bite it for the most part. Yet I don't think that somehow invalidates the conversations I have with squadmates about what we're going to do once everything is over.

    The choices you made at the time were in the best interests of the galaxy simple as that.

    That being said I have a much different perspective on these kinds of games than other people.
    I'm saying the choices I made were meaningless because they had no effect on the outcome, the game just told us "here are the endings, pick one" and we get nothing beyond that

    What happened with the quarians, most of their population is on Rannoc, how are they doing?
    Since the Salarians are mostly intact, are they now the dominant power in the galaxy?
    How long until the races were in contact with each other again?
    WHY DID THE NORMANDY CRASH, AND WHERE THE HELL IS THAT PLANET AT?!

    Have you ever thought that the reason those things are
    uncertain because they are uncertain?

    I think people underestimate just what the ending means. At the end of ME3 for better or for worse you have pretty much stopped thr Reapers. You have stopped a race of sentient beings who have been guiding the galaxy by their plans for millions of years now.

    And that's why I think the end of ME3 is great. Because for the first time in those years the universe is finally free of Reapers. Which while refreshing also leaves a sense of uncertainty. Remember that the galaxy has been dependent on Reaper tech to the point where they never bothered to understand, that's gone and with it a future with many possibilities.

    Also, problem I have with those questions is that yeah they would be nice to know but at the end of the day those aren't things that need to be answered immediately.

    Mass Effect has always been Shepard's story and his/her quest to stop the Reapers. That's it. All that other stuff about the Krogans, Quarians, etc while nice were just there to help paint the universe.

    And ME3 does end Shepard's story(which is actually why the special ending annoys me). And even though Shepard's story ends the story of the universe is still ongoing it doesn't have a definite conclusion. If anything the destruction of the Reapers just opens more mysteries.

    As for what will come of Shepard's actions who knows, and I believe that's the point. Many things could happen.

    I don't know I think people are so used to having things spelled out for them that they can't appreciate an open ending.
    End spoilers
    But that's the point. That's why people are
    upset. An open ending isn't an ending. We're attached to far more than just Shep and we don't get to see the outcomes of any of those other decisions. Some of those stories are just as important as the reapers and we don't get to see any conclusions for them. It's terribly unsatisfying. If the last episode of Star Wars was Empire Strikes Back people would be pissed. Vader defeats son and friends, goes to rule the galaxy. You wanted to find out what happened to Han/Lando/Luke/Chewie/Droids and friends? Sorry, the story was about Vader. This may be a terrible analogy.

    And that's something I think people generally need to start getting over. As someone who has been apart of ME since the beginning I can tell you...
    that the things that keep people talking about the series are the indefinites. People discussing Quarians vs. Geth, the Genophage, even aspects of certain characters. We discussed those things because there were no definite answers. And because of this you could get many different interpretations of the same situation because of how people looked at them.

    Even ME3 is like that. Take for instance the Krogan/Turian conflict or the Geth/Quarian conflict. Even though you can "solve" both of those they are both left very open.

    Like I helped saved the Krogan but even then I understand the risk that it poses(the game itself even does this, supporting both sides so there isn't a "right"). I mean I can place hope in Wrex and Eve and hope they do the right thing, or maybe even then the same mistakes will be repeated over.

    Who knows? And that's why it is fun to debate those things.

    If the game just spells it out for you then you lose that.

    Debating things is fun, but this is end of the trilogy. Shepard's story is over and there has been no real resolution of any kind. The last level of ME3 is a non-ending. It reminds me a lot of Fallout 3 without DLC- you spend the entire game adventuring around and then at the end you get turned into grey goo. Until six months later when the DLC came out.

    Remember the feeling of victory you felt at the end of ME1 and 2- you won, against all odds, and the endings reflected that. ME3 just gives a three-minute cinematic and rolls credits.

    From a writing standpoint, my biggest issue with the ending is that it's a Deus Ex Machina if there ever was one. You meet the Crucible and he tells you that he controls the cycle (but not how or why), tells you synthetic life and organic life can never get along (but why, or acknowledging EDI or the geth or their symbiosis with the quarians), and finally gives you a third option (that is not explained in any detail at all- what, did Joker become a Terminator or is the green glow just for cool factor?).

    That ending pretty much breaks every rule of fiction there is, and does so without putting something well-done in it's place. Who the hell wrote this bullshit? I've seen more technically proficient endings in Harry Potter fanfiction.

    Meh.
    I would say that the trilogy was full of Deus Ex Machina. IMO, you shouldn't have stood a chance against the Reapers from the get go. But Shepard not only managed to do that but he/she managed to end century old conflicts and finish in time for lunch.

    I agree that the Crucible seems to have been hastily thrown in but at the same time that's not really the point of contention I'm arguing.

    As for what rule of fiction this breaks you're going to have to clarify that exactly.
    The rule that character's actions have consequences, and that they build upon one another to create a continuity of story from opening to close. That's a lot of college major bullshit, so I'm going to use some examples for comparison: The Original Trilogy and Harry Potter, because then most everyone here will know what I'm talking about.

    1) The ending of Return of the Jedi happened completely because of the character's choices and their struggles, and nothing else. The Force didn't just descend and solve everyone's problems by waving its hand. Then, then last scenes showed resolution for the characters: Han and Leia cemented their relationship; Anakin was redeemed and Luke earned his knighthood; the Rebellion had been victorious. In ME3, you hobble over to hologram and get your ending handed to you without absolutely no input from your previous choices or any other character.

    2) Like ME3, Deathly Hallows built it's ending around plot points introduced within itself- the titular Hallows and Harry's love-driven survival. However, those plot points had been foreshadowed and setup from the very beginning of the series- look at how Harry defeated Quirrel or why Voldemort needed his blood; they were plot points that setup the fact that Harry's ability to love was his saving grace. in ME3, the Crucible is a barely-explained MacGuffin, and its actual traits are never even hinted at.


    Also, did you noticed that we never actually learned who built the Reapers, when, or why? All we get is some line about synthetics and organics which is demonstrably false by the rest of the story.

    It's like one writer handled the rest of the game, and another wrote the ending without the two ever speaking to each other.



  • jackisrealjackisreal Registered User
    SniperGuy wrote: »
    To agree with Ynuu, ending spoilers
    I don't mind what happened in the endings, I mind what we didn't get to see of the endings. The Normandy crash was weird and out of place though. I suppose he had just used a Relay and the explosion thing caught up with him during flight, throwing Joker and crew to that new planet?

    I think he was betting that
    the Citadel and Crucible exploding would do the same thing that happened in Arrival; there was no way to save Shepard, so he had to get the hell out of there, and using the Charon Relay to leave Sol System was the safest option.
    Did he definitely use a relay? I didn't see that

    Although I guess it's the only thing that makes sense, because that planet sure isn't in Sol

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