Yeah, and if earth was doing a big 'this is our first exploratory ship, let's go be diplomats' it's hard to believe they wouldn't have consulted the vulcans and gone along some sort of sane route of introduction to the local species in their part of the galaxy.
Well the humans hated the Vulcans because they wouldnt help them go faster or whatever and the Vulcans wouldnt give them anything beyond their basic starcharts or something. Not the best explanation, but whatever.
Yeah, but you'd think that Earth wouldn't want to go and prove the Vulcans right, and instead give their ship to the best Earth has to offer.
I think Archer is supposed to be one of the best pilots, and he has experience designing ships or something. Hoshi is the best translator they have to offer, Engineer guy is supposed to be their best engineer. Helms guy is well acquainted with space? They should have brought a diplomat though.
Earth's best captain, Earth's best pilot, Earth's best translator... kinda makes me feel bad for Earth's best doctor, who got passed over for the alien doctor who just happened to be standing there.
And they should have brought along a scientist too, given how many scientific opportunities were lost. How many times did they skip over an asteroid or nebula or whatever that was completely unlike anything humanity had ever seen because it's "boring" and they'd rather visit the planet of the topless babes or some such?
And maybe the guy with Earth's best common sense, to tell them not to go camping on a planet no one's ever set foot on before without taking an environmental survey and making a weather scan to make sure they won't all die in the next 12 hours.
Yeah, they should have taken common sense guy, but science guy who wants to look at space rocks instead of space boobs? Thats just fucking crazy. Theres plenty to be learned about space boobs, and dont you need repeat experiments to confirm hypothesis? Basically what Im saying is we need to spend more money/time investigating boobs. For science.
Yeah, and if earth was doing a big 'this is our first exploratory ship, let's go be diplomats' it's hard to believe they wouldn't have consulted the vulcans and gone along some sort of sane route of introduction to the local species in their part of the galaxy.
Well the humans hated the Vulcans because they wouldnt help them go faster or whatever and the Vulcans wouldnt give them anything beyond their basic starcharts or something. Not the best explanation, but whatever.
Yeah, but you'd think that Earth wouldn't want to go and prove the Vulcans right, and instead give their ship to the best Earth has to offer.
I think Archer is supposed to be one of the best pilots, and he has experience designing ships or something. Hoshi is the best translator they have to offer, Engineer guy is supposed to be their best engineer. Helms guy is well acquainted with space? They should have brought a diplomat though.
Hoshi is the super-linguist who can claw out subtleties of meaning and nuances of grammar that would slip past an Elcor. Therefore she is the butt-monkey and the useless idiot running around being afraid of thigns and getting in trouble while most of the aliens speak perfect English.
Archer is the son of a famous warp scientist, a good engineer and pilot himself, a well-established officer with lots of experience in both command and piloting and a man with a strong moral compass. So of course he knows how to do nothing and spends most of his time making terrible speeches in defense of moral compass that spins like a gyroscope. Also he spent quite a bit of time working with the Vulcans, which is why he keeps mistrusting and bitterly resenting them and having no respect for their lifestyle or culture.
Dr. Phlox is an alien, and to be honest he's pretty much everything Neelix was SUPPOSED to be (witty, charming, a little bit alien but with a little "local flavor"). He cures things with home remedies as (or more) often than Western Medicine because Rick Berman is secretly a goddamn hippie. He also spends a lot of time vacillating between being a tough "executive decisions" triage doctor who can and will cut off a leg to save the body and an insane bleeding heart who will let you die of gangrene because amputation is morally unacceptable mutilation of a subject.
and then there's the whole attempted genocide of the breenValakians thing
Charles "Catfish" Tucker was a master engineer because he spent his early years learning how to fix boat engines out in whatever swampy mudhole he called home. I'm detecting a pattern of "stupid is smart, ivory tower is stupid, luddite life is best life" here. Otherwise if you can get past his southern drawl and country-boy tropes he's just the engineer. It would be like if O'Brien was Irishing it up every other episode and drinking whiskey while shouting "bloody jaysus an' begorrah" or the like.
Travis Mayweather, Pilot, spacer kid, fairly competent but young. He's Ensign Wesley Crusher in the later seasons of TNG with a little more experience and without the baggage of his earlier, terrible appearances. Supposed to be a super pilot, but mostly they just had him show up and talk about having been a spacer kid at autistically awkward times.
Malcolm Reed, a British naval officer stereotype, as well as the most competent man on the entire ship, a creative engineer, and the only man with a plausibly military demeanor. Unsurprisingly he was therefore outranked by most folk and spent a lot of time being the, "voice of reason that no one listens to," with a side order of, "hauling everyone's fat out of the fire and getting no thanks for it."
T'Pol was a highly skilled agent and experienced ambassador, having spent much time observing and dealing with alien (that includes humans) culture. She knew her way around the the 'frisco jazz clubs and the brutal drinking halls of Quo'nos and had dignity, skill and experience. So of course she tarted about in Sexy McSexypants and played the "uptight librarian with a smoldering sensual core" fetish-bait character to be the object of antagonism and lust throughout the series.
Every single one of these characters COULD have been good if the scripts had been handled by someone other than a pack of buffoons. Hell half of them still weren't that bad, they just weren't good either and the writers saw no reason to mkae the effort.
Yeah, what I meant is that the show told us one thing about the characters and how good they were, and then for the most part showed us that all of the great things we'd been told about the crew was a huge exaggeration, and that they were right on the edge of criminally incompetent far too often.
The writers can tell us something, but they need to show some of that as well or the audience will stop believing them.
Then again, apparently Earth wasn't that much better in the competency department.
Yeah, we wrote off the breakup in "Warlord" as the dude controlling her. Didn't think that would actually stay that way. That doesn't logically make any sense.
The answer is:
Bad Writing
I seem to remember the breakup being how Kess really felt, but she just never had the courage to stand up to Neelix because he rescued her.
Really their relationship is kind of creepy to begin with if you think about it, Neelix is exploiting the fact that he rescued her to pressure her into staying with him the whole time.
Man, next you'll be pointing out that legally he's a pedophile and their biology only makes sense if they were designed as a race of "toys" by a sociopathic bioengineer for creepy clientele.
Hell, certain states' interpretation of laws could make Star Trek Voyager child pornography, if they actually knew the plot.
I wasn't referring to her age, more that she's from a backwater that never encountered other races directly and he's a spaceman with a spaceship and saved her life, of course she went out with him. Go watch Neelix and Kes episodes, he's more than just annoying hes a total shithead who treats her like a moron
Oh I know, I just wanted to add to the list of horrible, creepy exploitation and abuse tropes that her character represented. Hell her whole point was to be an innocent and docile little sex object for the creepier fanbase. A doll with sex appeal, an innocent who learns, an abused ex-slave being "saved", the bird with the broken wing, etc. And the weird part? Rumor has it that it was her or Harry Kim that were being booted, because they both were supposed to be representing the same general fetish and the show only needed one sexy prey for the sexual predators.
Or at least that's what I heard.
Well I'm not entirely sure about all that, they did end up giving Kes some character, made her more assertive, and less bendable to the will of those around her somewhere around the time she got her hair redone so she didn't look 12 years old
Yeah, and if earth was doing a big 'this is our first exploratory ship, let's go be diplomats' it's hard to believe they wouldn't have consulted the vulcans and gone along some sort of sane route of introduction to the local species in their part of the galaxy.
Well the humans hated the Vulcans because they wouldnt help them go faster or whatever and the Vulcans wouldnt give them anything beyond their basic starcharts or something. Not the best explanation, but whatever.
Yeah, but you'd think that Earth wouldn't want to go and prove the Vulcans right, and instead give their ship to the best Earth has to offer.
I think Archer is supposed to be one of the best pilots, and he has experience designing ships or something. Hoshi is the best translator they have to offer, Engineer guy is supposed to be their best engineer. Helms guy is well acquainted with space? They should have brought a diplomat though.
Hoshi is the super-linguist who can claw out subtleties of meaning and nuances of grammar that would slip past an Elcor. Therefore she is the butt-monkey and the useless idiot running around being afraid of thigns and getting in trouble while most of the aliens speak perfect English.
Archer is the son of a famous warp scientist, a good engineer and pilot himself, a well-established officer with lots of experience in both command and piloting and a man with a strong moral compass. So of course he knows how to do nothing and spends most of his time making terrible speeches in defense of moral compass that spins like a gyroscope. Also he spent quite a bit of time working with the Vulcans, which is why he keeps mistrusting and bitterly resenting them and having no respect for their lifestyle or culture.
Dr. Phlox is an alien, and to be honest he's pretty much everything Neelix was SUPPOSED to be (witty, charming, a little bit alien but with a little "local flavor"). He cures things with home remedies as (or more) often than Western Medicine because Rick Berman is secretly a goddamn hippie. He also spends a lot of time vacillating between being a tough "executive decisions" triage doctor who can and will cut off a leg to save the body and an insane bleeding heart who will let you die of gangrene because amputation is morally unacceptable mutilation of a subject.
and then there's the whole attempted genocide of the breenValakians thing
Charles "Catfish" Tucker was a master engineer because he spent his early years learning how to fix boat engines out in whatever swampy mudhole he called home. I'm detecting a pattern of "stupid is smart, ivory tower is stupid, luddite life is best life" here. Otherwise if you can get past his southern drawl and country-boy tropes he's just the engineer. It would be like if O'Brien was Irishing it up every other episode and drinking whiskey while shouting "bloody jaysus an' begorrah" or the like.
Travis Mayweather, Pilot, spacer kid, fairly competent but young. He's Ensign Wesley Crusher in the later seasons of TNG with a little more experience and without the baggage of his earlier, terrible appearances. Supposed to be a super pilot, but mostly they just had him show up and talk about having been a spacer kid at autistically awkward times.
Malcolm Reed, a British naval officer stereotype, as well as the most competent man on the entire ship, a creative engineer, and the only man with a plausibly military demeanor. Unsurprisingly he was therefore outranked by most folk and spent a lot of time being the, "voice of reason that no one listens to," with a side order of, "hauling everyone's fat out of the fire and getting no thanks for it."
T'Pol was a highly skilled agent and experienced ambassador, having spent much time observing and dealing with alien (that includes humans) culture. She knew her way around the the 'frisco jazz clubs and the brutal drinking halls of Quo'nos and had dignity, skill and experience. So of course she tarted about in Sexy McSexypants and played the "uptight librarian with a smoldering sensual core" fetish-bait character to be the object of antagonism and lust throughout the series.
Every single one of these characters COULD have been good if the scripts had been handled by someone other than a pack of buffoons. Hell half of them still weren't that bad, they just weren't good either and the writers saw no reason to mkae the effort.
I agree with all of that, and still find Enterprise likeable and very watchable. I can't really explain it, but where I find Voyager complete tripe I really enjoy Enterprise. I even think it does some things better - the cameraderie of the crew is much better than in DS9, for example, where it's a little bit artificial for my taste.
...and I thought of how all those people died, and what a good death that is. That nobody can blame you for it, because everyone else died along with you, and it is the fault of none, save those who did the killing.
I even think it does some things better - the cameraderie of the crew is much better than in DS9, for example, where it's a little bit artificial for my taste.
Could you elaborate on this?
I don't think any star trek has demonstrated more complex diversity in the bonds formed between characters than in DS9.
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Mr_Rose83 Blue Ridge Protects the HolyRegistered Userregular
Yeah, the constant struggle between Kira's mistrust of aliens, her fangirling over the Emissary and finally her genuine respect for Sisko the man as it developed over the series was quite entertaining really.
And the scene where Bashir and Dax come aboard for the first time; where Bashir is trying to suck up to his new CO whose response is basically "that's nice dear" before he latches on to the hot lieutenant and they immediately start gossiping like schoolgirls? Genius.
Yeah, the constant struggle between Kira's mistrust of aliens, her fangirling over the Emissary and finally her genuine respect for Sisko the man as it developed over the series was quite entertaining really.
And the scene where Bashir and Dax come aboard for the first time; where Bashir is trying to suck up to his new CO whose response is basically "that's nice dear" before he latches on to the hot lieutenant and they immediately start gossiping like schoolgirls? Genius.
I even think it does some things better - the cameraderie of the crew is much better than in DS9, for example, where it's a little bit artificial for my taste.
Could you elaborate on this?
I don't think any star trek has demonstrated more complex diversity in the bonds formed between characters than in DS9.
Also, Enterprise is staffed by plastic crazy people with no depth or consistency.
I even think it does some things better - the cameraderie of the crew is much better than in DS9, for example, where it's a little bit artificial for my taste.
Could you elaborate on this?
I don't think any star trek has demonstrated more complex diversity in the bonds formed between characters than in DS9.
Also, Enterprise is staffed by plastic crazy people with no depth or consistency.
I even think it does some things better - the cameraderie of the crew is much better than in DS9, for example, where it's a little bit artificial for my taste.
Could you elaborate on this?
I don't think any star trek has demonstrated more complex diversity in the bonds formed between characters than in DS9.
Also, Enterprise is staffed by plastic crazy people with no depth or consistency.
I disagree.
That's ok, you are allowed to be wrong Rick Berman.
I even think it does some things better - the cameraderie of the crew is much better than in DS9, for example, where it's a little bit artificial for my taste.
Could you elaborate on this?
I don't think any star trek has demonstrated more complex diversity in the bonds formed between characters than in DS9.
Also, Enterprise is staffed by plastic crazy people with no depth or consistency.
I disagree.
That's ok, you are allowed to be wrong Rick Berman.
Enterprise had almost no chemistry between the crewmembers. This (too) got better in season four, but too little, too late..
Everything about Season 4 is better. Its greatest accomplishment is making me mourn the loss of a show I hadn't watched for three years.
Speaking of endings, I'm finishing a run of DS9 again with the lady, and it really is a bittersweet thing to reflect that the show's series finale is basically the end of Star Trek. All that follows is Nemesis: a deeply, deeply flawed film with virtually no sense of scope, scale or consequence, which technically takes place in the aftermath of a quadrant-wide disaster, though you would never know it. That film was so terrified of its own continuity's baggage that it effectively ignored its own world's incredibly rich opportunities for some classic sci-fi. You don't need to have assumed that everyone watched 7 years of DS9 to establish the aftermath of a really big war in Act I, and it would have made perfect sense for Picard and company to be sent out to secure peace during reconstruction. Hell, they could have still done the Romulan angle, and had it be a story of two civilizations competing over the fate of Cardassia as it struggles to rebuild. There are a lot of really great questions and problems to explore in a situation like that. How do you help an enemy rebuild and defend itself while not utterly conquering it? That's so up Next Gen's alley it's probably the shit Picard lectures to himself about, just to keep in shape.
Having come out in 2002, with the drums banging to blow up the middle east, there was enormous latitude to at once embrace continuity, but to do so in such a way as to make Trek incredibly relevant again.
It's been a long road, gettin' from there to here.
It's been a long time, but my time is finally near!
And I will see my dream come alive at last. I WILL TOUCH THE SKY.
I hate you all.
I wish that "Archer's Theme" was the theme song, it was the jaunty tune they played over the credits. It was more Star Trek-y, but I also sort of liked Enterprise for what it was and season four is my favorite Trek since DS9.
The best thing about the ENT theme is that when everyone complained they made it even worse.
I remember back then there was a "Paramount Internal Only" video going around the net with a supposedly alternative opening - it was the same imagery as the actual one, but had an instrumental theme. Anyone seen that/know if it's legit?
What's funny is that the opening & theme music for the Mirror Universe is perfect. To bad they didn't do something similar for Enterprise's standard opening.
The song is mostly fine, oddly enough I think it would have been more fitting in a show that was what Enterprise was billed as instead of what it was. (i.e. dynamic shift from Star Trek norms to the development of The Federation, different kind of ship combat, much more limited technology, more adult themes, something to draw in new viewers, etc.) I get that everyone can sort of overlook classical instrumental but have a burning hatred for any other particular music genre (goodness knows I can't stand rap and its derivatives) but y'all need to let go. It's hard to hate E-Z semi-pop late-90's music. It's like it's scientifically designed to be inoffensive UNLESS you just hate it for completely unrelated reasons, like nostalgia.
The aforementioned Archer's Theme isn't bad, except it doesn't end right, it sounds like, well, an ENDING rather than an introduction.
Of course I have the advantage of not really hating ANY musical genre (except rap, for specific yet off-topic reasons) and not getting stuck in one decade or another as, "when music died and people started listening to nothing but garbage." I *also* remember the era when no one, not even the Beatles, could top Elvis as the King of Rock and Roll, and all them kids with their dang noise was part of the decline of western civilization.
I try not to get stuck in that trap.
Boring7 on
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AManFromEarthLet's get to twerk!The King in the SwampRegistered Userregular
Yeah, with the thousand things that were wrong with Enterprise, the theme song is pretty far down on the list.
I don't think any star trek has demonstrated more complex diversity in the bonds formed between characters than in DS9.
Agreed, there have been some very interesting and complex relationships in DS9, such as Bashir and Garak, or the hilarious yet sometimes touching Odo and Quark. I just find that in general, the characters in Enterprise seem to be more at ease with each other, interacting in a more natural manner. Maybe that's just the types of characters involved - Archer, for example, is very much at ease with everyone in his crew, interacting with them in a way that just seems more realistic to me than say, Sisko and his crew. Whereas Archer drops in and out of his roles as captain and friend with ease, Sisko is very intense no matter who he is talking to. Maybe that's just because Avery Brooks is so intense in general, while Scott Bakula is not. It works for the character of Sisko because of the setting, with the war, but put Sisko on the bridge of say, Archer's Enterprise or even Picard's and he would be so out of place.
A lot of people hate Archer due to some very stupid decisions and writing (thank you, Bermaga), but I can't hate the character or Bakula for any of that. Like Dr. Phlox in Dear Doctor, for example. Horrible, horrible episode that really damaged the character for many, but that horrible decision given to him from the writers doesn't make me hate the character any. Archer flip-flopped a lot, but again I can't hate or blame the character for bad writing.
That's because none of you except Rohan have Faith. Faith of the heart.
You stop that, right now! Actually, I have no real issues with the theme song, though I would have preferred the more traditional instrumental arrangement. As much as I can't stand Voyager, it has a really beautiful theme song, and it's a shame that Enterprise has this weak rock song leading into every episode.
Rohan on
...and I thought of how all those people died, and what a good death that is. That nobody can blame you for it, because everyone else died along with you, and it is the fault of none, save those who did the killing.
It's been a long road, gettin' from there to here.
It's been a long time, but my time is finally near!
And I will see my dream come alive at last. I WILL TOUCH THE SKY.
I hate you all.
I wish that "Archer's Theme" was the theme song, it was the jaunty tune they played over the credits. It was more Star Trek-y, but I also sort of liked Enterprise for what it was and season four is my favorite Trek since DS9.
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Whereas Archer drops in and out of his roles as captain and friend with ease, Sisko is very intense no matter who he is talking to. Maybe that's just because Avery Brooks is so intense in general, while Scott Bakula is not.
I don't think this is true though.
Sisko displays a wide array of emotional sentiment. For instance, around Jake he exhibits a mix of tenderness and the stern attitude of a father while encouraging him to be his own man. Around Jadzia he always lightens up and displays a more relaxed attitude, the kind someone has around an old friend. With Kira, their relationship settles into that of two people who share ideas about faith, and Bajor as a home, they develop a spiritual bond. With O'Brien he seems to show a special trust in terms of reliability, I think he also has a respect for his lengthy service and as a fellow family man.
Bashir and Worf are probably who he connects the least with. Mostly because he doesn't have all that much in common with either of them. Bashir being a more introverted intellectual, and Worf being the stoic warrior. Sisko just bonds more with people who are a little more vivacious in their personality traits.
Whereas Archer drops in and out of his roles as captain and friend with ease, Sisko is very intense no matter who he is talking to. Maybe that's just because Avery Brooks is so intense in general, while Scott Bakula is not.
I don't think this is true though.
Sisko displays a wide array of emotional sentiment. For instance, around Jake he exhibits a mix of tenderness and the stern attitude of a father while encouraging him to be his own man. Around Jadzia he always lightens up and displays a more relaxed attitude, the kind someone has around an old friend. With Kira, their relationship settles into that of two people who share ideas about faith, and Bajor as a home, they develop a spiritual bond. With O'Brien he seems to show a special trust in terms of reliability, I think he also has a respect for his lengthy service and as a fellow family man.
Bashir and Worf are probably who he connects the least with. Mostly because he doesn't have all that much in common with either of them. Bashir being a more introverted intellectual, and Worf being the stoic warrior. Sisko just bonds more with people who are a little more vivacious in their personality traits.
Yeah the only difference I see is that Sisko seemed more competent, largely because he wasn't constantly making bad decisions or losing fights. I get that maybe you're trying to make Archer seem more human by having him lose every fist-fight he ever gets into and stumble over his speeches (probably because they're so badly-written) but he's still supposed to be the hero, which means you need to have him win every once in a while.
He's also a solid example of character growth. People on the station wanted to airlock him for most of the first two seasons, but he matures, they get used to him, everything works out.
He's also a solid example of character growth. People on the station wanted to airlock him for most of the first two seasons, but he matures, they get used to him, everything works out.
I think that's why even in the early days he wasn't as derided as Wesley: He's annoying, but the characters don't tolerate it. It's like Kai Winn: Good God she's annoying, but the characters know that so you don't have that meta-annoyance. You accept her annoyance as necessary for the plot.
He's also a solid example of character growth. People on the station wanted to airlock him for most of the first two seasons, but he matures, they get used to him, everything works out.
I think that's why even in the early days he wasn't as derided as Wesley: He's annoying, but the characters don't tolerate it. It's like Kai Winn: Good God she's annoying, but the characters know that so you don't have that meta-annoyance. You accept her annoyance as necessary for the plot.
Wesley and Neelix suffer from the same problem. They are annoying but the writers want you to love them.
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mrt144King of the NumbernamesRegistered Userregular
What's funny is that the opening & theme music for the Mirror Universe is perfect. To bad they didn't do something similar for Enterprise's standard opening.
Why didn't they just admit they wanted to make Babylon 5?
Posts
Yeah, they should have taken common sense guy, but science guy who wants to look at space rocks instead of space boobs? Thats just fucking crazy. Theres plenty to be learned about space boobs, and dont you need repeat experiments to confirm hypothesis? Basically what Im saying is we need to spend more money/time investigating boobs. For science.
Hoshi is the super-linguist who can claw out subtleties of meaning and nuances of grammar that would slip past an Elcor. Therefore she is the butt-monkey and the useless idiot running around being afraid of thigns and getting in trouble while most of the aliens speak perfect English.
Archer is the son of a famous warp scientist, a good engineer and pilot himself, a well-established officer with lots of experience in both command and piloting and a man with a strong moral compass. So of course he knows how to do nothing and spends most of his time making terrible speeches in defense of moral compass that spins like a gyroscope. Also he spent quite a bit of time working with the Vulcans, which is why he keeps mistrusting and bitterly resenting them and having no respect for their lifestyle or culture.
Dr. Phlox is an alien, and to be honest he's pretty much everything Neelix was SUPPOSED to be (witty, charming, a little bit alien but with a little "local flavor"). He cures things with home remedies as (or more) often than Western Medicine because Rick Berman is secretly a goddamn hippie. He also spends a lot of time vacillating between being a tough "executive decisions" triage doctor who can and will cut off a leg to save the body and an insane bleeding heart who will let you die of gangrene because amputation is morally unacceptable mutilation of a subject.
Charles "Catfish" Tucker was a master engineer because he spent his early years learning how to fix boat engines out in whatever swampy mudhole he called home. I'm detecting a pattern of "stupid is smart, ivory tower is stupid, luddite life is best life" here. Otherwise if you can get past his southern drawl and country-boy tropes he's just the engineer. It would be like if O'Brien was Irishing it up every other episode and drinking whiskey while shouting "bloody jaysus an' begorrah" or the like.
Travis Mayweather, Pilot, spacer kid, fairly competent but young. He's Ensign Wesley Crusher in the later seasons of TNG with a little more experience and without the baggage of his earlier, terrible appearances. Supposed to be a super pilot, but mostly they just had him show up and talk about having been a spacer kid at autistically awkward times.
Malcolm Reed, a British naval officer stereotype, as well as the most competent man on the entire ship, a creative engineer, and the only man with a plausibly military demeanor. Unsurprisingly he was therefore outranked by most folk and spent a lot of time being the, "voice of reason that no one listens to," with a side order of, "hauling everyone's fat out of the fire and getting no thanks for it."
T'Pol was a highly skilled agent and experienced ambassador, having spent much time observing and dealing with alien (that includes humans) culture. She knew her way around the the 'frisco jazz clubs and the brutal drinking halls of Quo'nos and had dignity, skill and experience. So of course she tarted about in Sexy McSexypants and played the "uptight librarian with a smoldering sensual core" fetish-bait character to be the object of antagonism and lust throughout the series.
Every single one of these characters COULD have been good if the scripts had been handled by someone other than a pack of buffoons. Hell half of them still weren't that bad, they just weren't good either and the writers saw no reason to mkae the effort.
The writers can tell us something, but they need to show some of that as well or the audience will stop believing them.
Then again, apparently Earth wasn't that much better in the competency department.
Well I'm not entirely sure about all that, they did end up giving Kes some character, made her more assertive, and less bendable to the will of those around her somewhere around the time she got her hair redone so she didn't look 12 years old
I agree with all of that, and still find Enterprise likeable and very watchable. I can't really explain it, but where I find Voyager complete tripe I really enjoy Enterprise. I even think it does some things better - the cameraderie of the crew is much better than in DS9, for example, where it's a little bit artificial for my taste.
Nothing's forgotten, nothing is ever forgotten
I don't think any star trek has demonstrated more complex diversity in the bonds formed between characters than in DS9.
And the scene where Bashir and Dax come aboard for the first time; where Bashir is trying to suck up to his new CO whose response is basically "that's nice dear" before he latches on to the hot lieutenant and they immediately start gossiping like schoolgirls? Genius.
Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
Bashir's only super human. No-one can resist Dax.
Also, Enterprise is staffed by plastic crazy people with no depth or consistency.
I disagree.
This and other insightful and well thought out command decisions can be seen on Enterprise.
You're just the worst type of person.
That's ok, you are allowed to be wrong Rick Berman.
Everything about Season 4 is better. Its greatest accomplishment is making me mourn the loss of a show I hadn't watched for three years.
Speaking of endings, I'm finishing a run of DS9 again with the lady, and it really is a bittersweet thing to reflect that the show's series finale is basically the end of Star Trek. All that follows is Nemesis: a deeply, deeply flawed film with virtually no sense of scope, scale or consequence, which technically takes place in the aftermath of a quadrant-wide disaster, though you would never know it. That film was so terrified of its own continuity's baggage that it effectively ignored its own world's incredibly rich opportunities for some classic sci-fi. You don't need to have assumed that everyone watched 7 years of DS9 to establish the aftermath of a really big war in Act I, and it would have made perfect sense for Picard and company to be sent out to secure peace during reconstruction. Hell, they could have still done the Romulan angle, and had it be a story of two civilizations competing over the fate of Cardassia as it struggles to rebuild. There are a lot of really great questions and problems to explore in a situation like that. How do you help an enemy rebuild and defend itself while not utterly conquering it? That's so up Next Gen's alley it's probably the shit Picard lectures to himself about, just to keep in shape.
Having come out in 2002, with the drums banging to blow up the middle east, there was enormous latitude to at once embrace continuity, but to do so in such a way as to make Trek incredibly relevant again.
It's been a long time, but my time is finally near!
I WILL TOUCH THE SKY.
I hate you all.
I wish that "Archer's Theme" was the theme song, it was the jaunty tune they played over the credits. It was more Star Trek-y, but I also sort of liked Enterprise for what it was and season four is my favorite Trek since DS9.
I remember back then there was a "Paramount Internal Only" video going around the net with a supposedly alternative opening - it was the same imagery as the actual one, but had an instrumental theme. Anyone seen that/know if it's legit?
Or like opening Dawson's Creek with the Dawson's Creek theme, then slapping the Star Trek logo on it and hoping fans wouldnt notice anything else.
The song is mostly fine, oddly enough I think it would have been more fitting in a show that was what Enterprise was billed as instead of what it was. (i.e. dynamic shift from Star Trek norms to the development of The Federation, different kind of ship combat, much more limited technology, more adult themes, something to draw in new viewers, etc.) I get that everyone can sort of overlook classical instrumental but have a burning hatred for any other particular music genre (goodness knows I can't stand rap and its derivatives) but y'all need to let go. It's hard to hate E-Z semi-pop late-90's music. It's like it's scientifically designed to be inoffensive UNLESS you just hate it for completely unrelated reasons, like nostalgia.
The aforementioned Archer's Theme isn't bad, except it doesn't end right, it sounds like, well, an ENDING rather than an introduction.
Of course I have the advantage of not really hating ANY musical genre (except rap, for specific yet off-topic reasons) and not getting stuck in one decade or another as, "when music died and people started listening to nothing but garbage." I *also* remember the era when no one, not even the Beatles, could top Elvis as the King of Rock and Roll, and all them kids with their dang noise was part of the decline of western civilization.
I try not to get stuck in that trap.
Agreed, there have been some very interesting and complex relationships in DS9, such as Bashir and Garak, or the hilarious yet sometimes touching Odo and Quark. I just find that in general, the characters in Enterprise seem to be more at ease with each other, interacting in a more natural manner. Maybe that's just the types of characters involved - Archer, for example, is very much at ease with everyone in his crew, interacting with them in a way that just seems more realistic to me than say, Sisko and his crew. Whereas Archer drops in and out of his roles as captain and friend with ease, Sisko is very intense no matter who he is talking to. Maybe that's just because Avery Brooks is so intense in general, while Scott Bakula is not. It works for the character of Sisko because of the setting, with the war, but put Sisko on the bridge of say, Archer's Enterprise or even Picard's and he would be so out of place.
A lot of people hate Archer due to some very stupid decisions and writing (thank you, Bermaga), but I can't hate the character or Bakula for any of that. Like Dr. Phlox in Dear Doctor, for example. Horrible, horrible episode that really damaged the character for many, but that horrible decision given to him from the writers doesn't make me hate the character any. Archer flip-flopped a lot, but again I can't hate or blame the character for bad writing.
You stop that, right now! Actually, I have no real issues with the theme song, though I would have preferred the more traditional instrumental arrangement. As much as I can't stand Voyager, it has a really beautiful theme song, and it's a shame that Enterprise has this weak rock song leading into every episode.
Nothing's forgotten, nothing is ever forgotten
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Sisko displays a wide array of emotional sentiment. For instance, around Jake he exhibits a mix of tenderness and the stern attitude of a father while encouraging him to be his own man. Around Jadzia he always lightens up and displays a more relaxed attitude, the kind someone has around an old friend. With Kira, their relationship settles into that of two people who share ideas about faith, and Bajor as a home, they develop a spiritual bond. With O'Brien he seems to show a special trust in terms of reliability, I think he also has a respect for his lengthy service and as a fellow family man.
Bashir and Worf are probably who he connects the least with. Mostly because he doesn't have all that much in common with either of them. Bashir being a more introverted intellectual, and Worf being the stoic warrior. Sisko just bonds more with people who are a little more vivacious in their personality traits.
Yeah the only difference I see is that Sisko seemed more competent, largely because he wasn't constantly making bad decisions or losing fights. I get that maybe you're trying to make Archer seem more human by having him lose every fist-fight he ever gets into and stumble over his speeches (probably because they're so badly-written) but he's still supposed to be the hero, which means you need to have him win every once in a while.
I think that's why even in the early days he wasn't as derided as Wesley: He's annoying, but the characters don't tolerate it. It's like Kai Winn: Good God she's annoying, but the characters know that so you don't have that meta-annoyance. You accept her annoyance as necessary for the plot.
Wesley and Neelix suffer from the same problem. They are annoying but the writers want you to love them.
Why didn't they just admit they wanted to make Babylon 5?