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[WARMACHINE & HORDES] We just want to unleash some Butchers!
TheConstantWay
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
WARMACHINE: TACTICS is being kickstarted!
Get yourself a vidja game and exclusive sculpts!
Get yourself a vidja game and exclusive sculpts!
Welcome to the world of the Iron Kingdoms!
The steampunk fantasy continent of Immoren, created by PRIVATEER PRESS, is the setting for two tabletop miniatures games: WARMACHINE and HORDES.
WARMACHINE and HORDES are played on a 4' by 4' gaming table, usually with some terrain - forests, trenches, rock walls and so forth - dotted about the battlefield. The players deploy their armies of miniatures across the board, roll dice and have at each other with gusto.
While each is counted as a separate game in its own right, WARMACHINE and HORDES use a compatible rules set and can be played against each other. The key differences between the two systems are warjacks/warbeasts, warlocks/warcasters, and FOCUS/FURY.
Warjacks are the eponymous WARMACHINES: giant steampunk robots which the armies of the Iron Kingdoms use to wage war, controlled by powerful battle-wizards known as warcasters. In HORDES, warriors from the wild places of the world fight alongside hulking monsters called warbeasts, whose savage instincts are held in check by warlocks.
Lastly, FOCUS and FURY is the most glaring difference. Warcasters possess a magical energy called FOCUS, which they can use to cast spells, increase their armour, or allocate to their warjacks to grant them an increased chance of hitting/damaging stuff and perform a variety of devastating power attacks. On the other hand, warlocks use stuff called FURY. FURY is similar to FOCUS in that it allows warlocks to cast spells, but instead of giving it to their warbeasts to increase their performance, warbeasts generate their own FURY when they are forced to boost dice rolls or perform power attacks. During his or her next turn, the warlock will drain off the fury from his warbeasts and use it for spells and whatnot, and the cycle repeats.
The problem is, if your warlock doesn’t drain all the fury from his or her beasts, there’s a good chance the monsters will hulk out and mindlessly attack those around them, friend or foe. So we like to say that while Warmachine is a game of resource management (deciding where to spend your limited pool of FOCUS), Hordes is a game of risk management (can I afford to leave FURY on that beast this turn?).
Hopefully that all makes sense. Now, let’s meet the inhabitants of the Iron Kingdoms.
The playable WARMACHINE factions include:
CYGNAR
A wealthy, populous, and advanced nation, Cygnar are known as “the crown jewel of the Iron Kingdoms”. They are well known for their advanced technology which has ensured their place as one of the major powers in Immoren. Cygnar are very much the 'combined arms' faction in Warmachine, able to field a variety of troops and warjacks that fill all rolls - ranged combat, melee combat, support, etc. - reasonably well. If phrases like "Gun Mage", "Chain Lightning", "Rapid Fire", and "Storm Glaive" make you sexually excited, you might be a Cygnar player in your heart of hearts.
Unfortunately for Cygnar, their success and wealth has earned them the animosity of most of their neighbours, such as...
KHADOR
Khador is a large, wintery nation which bears an uncanny similarity to stereotypical depictions of Russia. The harsh and icy climate has produced a tough, rugged people who are fiercely patriotic and filled with disdain for the weak southern nations. The Khadoran military is characterised by huge, ponderous warjacks with nigh-impenetrable armour and which hit like a ton of bricks; supported by infantry ranging from massed Winter Guard conscripts to elite infantry like the deadly Widowmaker Snipers and the mighty Man-O-Wars. Khador have also recently made strides to modernise their military with more long ranged (if somewhat inaccurate) firepower.
United by the dream of a new Khardic Empire, the Khadoran people have embraced a policy of aggressive expansionism, which unsurprisingly brings them into frequent conflict with the other nations of Immoren.
THE PROTECTORATE OF MENOTH
Formed out of a civil war with Cygnar, the Protectorate of Menoth is the youngest of the Iron Kingdoms. Essentially, the fanatical devotees of Menoth, the creator of man, were exiled to a barren wasteland to the east of Cygnar. There they found oil, diamonds, savage tribes to convert, and built up an army to crush their heathen enemies. Praise Menoth! Protectorate warjacks (and many of their troops) are individually weaker than those of the other factions, but by buffing their armies with their warcaster's spells and key support pieces, the Protectorate become exponentially more powerful. They also favour denying their enemies the ability to shoot or cast spells, thus throwing carefully laid plans into disarray.
Also, fire. Fire everywhere.
CRYX
The Nightmare Empire of Cryx is a series of islands off the western coast of mainland Immoren, and home to the immortal dragonfather Toruk. In addition to hordes of mindless undead thralls, Toruk's vassals include the Satyxis, a race of vicious warrior-women who practice blood rituals, the twelve Lich Lords, and a variety of other lifeforms corrupted and twisted by the dragon's blight. In battle, Cryx are fast, stealthy, and have a huge array of dirty tricks and debuffs up their rotting undead sleeves.
THE RETRIBUTION OF SCYRAH
The Retribution of Scyrah is WARMACHINE's newest faction. Formerly a fringe radical group hailing from the secluded elven nation of Ios, the Retribution has recently gained heavy political ground and acceptance in its homeland. They now have access to and support from some of Ios's greaet Military Houses, including the ranks of the fearsome Dawnguard and the power of Myrmidon Warjacks. They are technologically advanced. They have force fields. They hate you.
They're out for blood and revenge. They are fighting the good fight for the survival of their species. Their last remaining Gods are dying, and they blame human magic use for it. They are damn good at what they do.
Solid units. Some absurdly powerful solos. Well-rounded if focus-hungry Warjacks. The Retribution plays differently and can be rather rewarding for those willing to put some effort into them. They shoot harder than most factions though aren't necessarily as accurate. They are potent in melee, but lack Warcaster support to the degrees most other factions enjoy. Their Warjacks are few in variety but can all do their task well. Take care of them, because they crumple like paper once their force fields are gone. Did I mention mage hunters? Oh yes. Mage hunters.
MERCENARIES
This is a world where conflict rules and wars are always ready to flare up. What kind of moron could pass up a chance to make a buck? Mercenaries come in all shapes and sizes. Some are exiles from their own land, called traitors by those they once called brother. Some are pirates sailing on the high seas. Others are freedom fighters working to save their ruined nation. Others are short bearded fellows who like money. It takes all kinds, right?
What do YOU fight for?
TheConstantWay on
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HORDES is WARMACHINE's younger, feral brother: it's just as large and tends to bite more often. The HORDES factions include...
SKORNE
To the far east of the Iron Kingdoms lies the Skorne Empire, a sadistic race obsessed with martial perfection. The deposed king of Cygnar fled here after his brother overthrew him, and single-handedly conquered the Skorne because he is a scary, scary man. Now he’s attempting to use them to win back his old kingdom; though the Skorne themselves are starting to get other ideas in that regard. Namely, conquest of the entire continent.
Skorne warbeasts typically start off as heavily armoured, lumbering behemoths, but through careful application of support spells and abilities they can become scarily fast. Skorne infantry tends to be different flavours of melee – Praetorian swordsmen who wield two swords in an orgy of choppy death, slow but powerful soldiers like Immortals and Cataphracts, and fast, stealthy Bloodrunner assassins. They also have access to some powerful wizards who like collected the souls of dead allies (or enemies, it varies) to fuel their armies. So yeah, nice folk all round.
TROLLBLOODS
The Trollbloods have villages and communities dotted all over the forests and wild places of Western Immoren. The Trollkin are a civilised and intelligent bunch who frequently interact with the human nations, working as bounty hunters, trackers and hired muscle. However, the humans tend to treat them like second-class citizens at best and try to murder them at worst. With that sort of nonsense, and the humans ever encroaching on their ancestral homelands and sacred sites, the Trollkin have had enough and are fighting back.
Trolls are very, very hard to put down. Most of their infantry have the ‘Tough’ special rule which allows you to roll a die when they’re killed to see if they’re really dead or just faking it. Their warbeasts are even more resilient, with the ability to regenerate health. Like the Protectorate of Menoth in Warmachine, Trolls tend to rely on a number of key support pieces for synergy and buffs that allow them to become even better and punching their enemies’ faces off.
LEGION OF EVERBLIGHT
One of Toruk’s progeny, the dragon Everblight exists as a disembodied essence in the far northern reaches of Immoren. He’s been slowly working to corrupt and enslave the Nyss, an arctic subspecies of elves. Everblight is also fond of using his own blood to create monstrous abominations with rows of sharp teeth and spikes everywhere. Now all his creations are marching south, primarily with the intention of fighting Toruk, but they’re not adverse to throwing down with anyone they encounter on the way.
The Legion are typically characterised as “glass cannons”. They hit you hard and hit you fast, and can be quite difficult to hit in return, but once you do hit them they tend to die rather easily (with a few notable exceptions such as blighted Ogruns and beasts like the Carnivean). They also love ignoring terrain and line of sight. Such things are not for the children of a Dragon!
CIRCLE ORBOROS
A sectrective cabal of Druids, the Circle Orboros are all about maintaining the balance between the order of the civilised world and the chaos of the wild places. They take to the battlefield alongside the Tharn, savage worshippers of the Devourer Wurm, construct warbeasts made of wood and stone, and beasts of the forests like Satyrs and Warpwolves.
The Circle Orboros love terrain, pure and simple. Most of their army choices either or ignore difficult terrain or have some way of gaining the ability to, and more often than not they gain some kind of benefit from hiding in forests. Oh yeah, and a lot of their stuff has the ability to make forests! The Circle play a very hit and run game as they tend to be somewhat fragile; and they can suffer against the heavy armour of factions like Khador and Skorne. However, they have access to some very powerful magic – namely denial and debuff spells – to help them out a bit.
MINIONS
Similar to the Mercenaries of Warmachine, Minions are a rag tag collection of hunters and wild creatures who will ally with the various Hordes factions for fun and profit. As of Hordes mk.II, they’re being promoted to a real faction. They’re mostly divided into Farrow (pig people), and Gatormen (fairly self-explanatory), bolsterd by badass wilderness guides, mad scientists and tentacle monsters. While their range is somewhat limited, they can still field reasonably competitive armies with a few unique tricks and abilities.
Sounds fun, I hear you say. But you’re probably also asking…
How do I get started with all of this?
Well, all of the rules you need to get started are in WARMACHINE: Prime mk.II and HORDES: Primal mk.II, the core rulebooks for each game. I’ve mentioned Mk.II a couple of times; it’s the second edition of the game, which was rolled out over the course of 2010.
If you want to know more about the individual factions, you should take a look at the 'Forces of…' books. While the main rulebooks contain a good selection of warcasters/warlocks, warjacks/warbeasts and troops from each of the factions, the Force books contain every model from that faction that has been released or is going to be released in the near future.
You can also purchase the Mk.II faction decks. All models in Warmachine and Hordes come with a handy quick-reference card, so you don’t have to have your whole collection of books on hand while you’re playing a game. The 2010 Mk.II faction decks contain current cards for all models that existed prior to Mk.II, allowing old hands to convert to the new system with minimal fuss and new players to see what their faction can field.
IMPORTANT NOTE: Make sure it’s the 2010 Mk.II faction deck, not just the Mk.II faction deck. Those are old cards. Yes, I agree it doesn’t make sense, it’s a long story. Anyway, some unscrupulous retailers have tried to rip folks off in the past so be aware of that when purchasing your cards.
Also, faction battleboxes contain a warcaster/warlock and some ‘jacks/beasts, along with the quick start rules. So you and some friends can pick up a box each and start duking it out in no time. There are currently battleboxes for all of the Hordes factions (barring Minions), and the old Warmachine starter boxes with metal models have been replaced with all new spiffy plastic one for Cygnar, Khador, the Protectorate and Cryx (though you can probably find the old ones if you want to).
Whew, I think that’s everything! Here’s some useful links and general stuff of interest:
The official Privateer Press homepage
Forward Kommander - a useful online army calculator.
The Battle College - a wiki full of strategies, tricks and tips, and detailed overviews of all the models.
Doctor Faust's Painting Clinic - a stellar guide on how to paint your mans and paint them good.
Vassal - a sprite-based application which allows you to play Warmachine and Hordes online. Simply download Vassal and the Warmachine and Hordes module, then jump online.
Previous Warmachine & Hordes threads from this very forum:
THREAD 1
THREAD 2
THREAD 3
THREAD 4
THREAD 5
THREAD 6
THREAD 7
And of course, our friend Captain Jeremiah Kraye has this to say:
Have fun, and play like you've got a pair!
HONK!
Out of curiosity, what works well with the Witch Coven? Love the models, and wouldn't mind picking up a 35 point list to go with them. Bonus points if it mostly works with eSkarre.
You could use 3 bonejacks for arc nodes to blend well with the coven, too. Arguably two ripjaws are awesome for the armor piercing and maybe a deathripper. The skarlock is essential there too, to maximize the amount of spells you can throw out. In terms of infantry, probably go cheap. You'll want a character jack, maybe a Seether, and a Slayer if you want a heavy list. If you start to run out of points, definitely just go full McThralls and stitches for safe advance.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
Whoa. Are you going to try to mess with the models at all to see if they can be fixed a little?
(Don't really do the omni-jacking thing.)
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
I want to emphasize that the coven really want a backup heavy. Cryx character jacks are great, but the coven loses a lot of it's threat if it can't send a heavy jack bullet straight through enemy lines. Seethers and slayers are great for this. A stalker might make a decent backup for a last ditch assassination run as well.
I've been looking at pNemo recently. I've avoided using him in favor or eNemo, but 11 focus is very alluring. I'm thinking something like this:
Points: 35/35
Commander Adept Nemo (*6pts)
* Lancer (6pts)
* Stormclad (10pts)
* Squire (2pts)
Black 13th Gun Mage Strike Team (4pts)
Lady Aiyana & Master Holt (4pts)
Stormblade Infantry (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5pts)
* Stormblade Infantry Officer & Standard (3pts)
* 2 Stormblade Infantry Storm Gunner (2pts)
Captain Arlan Strangewayes (2pts)
Journeyman Warcaster (3pts)
Arcane Shield + Deflection seems capable of delivering stormblades. I've got enough casters to power Nemo as well, and the Stormclad would make a decent bullet. Holt + the b13 should provide sufficient firepower on the way in. I'm uneasy about leaving out Rhupert or Runewood though. Maybe switch out the b13 for either Rhupert + Gorman or Runewood + Stormsmith?
The problem here is that stormblades are not a front line unit, and ARM 18 isn't going to protect you much against a charge from [any unit in the game], and just about all of them out reach you. I typically only run the base unit with pNemo. Aiyana & Holt are kind of a luxury in a list like this - at least at this points level. I'd drop them and the Black 13th for a full gun mages + UA, honestly. Or if you'd rather, drop Aiyana & Holt for Rhupert + Lanyssa to more efficiently ram the stormclad down someones throat.
Coven - -5
=Nightwretch - 4
=Deathripper - 4
=Seether - 9
=Stalker - 4
=Skarlock - 2
Full Mechanithralls w/3 Brute Thralls - 8
Necrosurgeon - 2
Min Bile Thralls - 5
Warwitch Siren - 2
Gives a good mix, answers a lot of questions, and synergizes well with the Coven's biggest strengths of massive control range, 'Jack buffs, arc nodes, and mixed infantry support.
2011 PAX Warmachine/Hordes Champion
How do the Bile Thralls do for you? Do you use the McThralls to screen them, or rely on the feat to keep them alive?
2011 PAX Warmachine/Hordes Champion
What do you run instead of the stormblades then? I know their limitations, but I'm not sure what I could replace them with.
I've had mixed success with Lanyssa. She's missed far too many hunter's marks, but on the other hand, she once killed a whole unit of striders by herself in the woods. Rhupert + Lanyssa would work if I kept the stormblades - giving them a little more durability and threat.
This might be a decent alternative:
Commander Adept Nemo (*6pts)
* Lancer (6pts)
* Centurion (9pts)
* Squire (2pts)
Arcane Tempest Gun Mages (Leader and 5 Grunts) (6pts)
* Arcane Tempest Gun Mage Officer (2pts)
Stormguard (Leader and 9 Grunts) (9pts)
Captain Arlan Strangewayes (2pts)
Journeyman Warcaster (3pts)
Lanyssa Ryssyll, Nyss Sorceress (2pts)
But I'm uneasy about that many pow 10s.
Maybe sword knights + runewood?
I don't think I'd be able to use ragman effectively. Order of activation and charge lane problems would make my turns too complicated too quickly.
Edit, since I don't want to double-post:
@admanb - I tried out the eHaley list you reccommended to me at the game store tonight against an eEkarre list.
He had:
Skarre, Queen of the Broken Coast (*6pts)
* Nightwretch (4pts)
* Deathjack (12pts)
* Malice (9pts)
Satyxis Raiders (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5pts)
* Satyxis Raider Sea Witch (2pts)
The Withershadow Combine (5pts)
Satyxis Raider Captain (2pts)
Warwitch Siren (2pts)
Your list worked well - having a defender and a stormclad instead of a lancer and a stormclad allowed me to play more recklessly with my stormclad. My opponent didn't expect the threat range on a bonded stormclad, so I managed to eat the deathjack on the bottom of turn one. No luck killing the satyxis with my commandos though - force barrier stops them cold. I had to feat at the bottom of one to try to keep my infantry alive. Things worked out pretty well, and eventually I was able to get a couple of shots from my Defender on Skarre.
And fuck white.
Also, sorely tempted to drive up to my brother's FLGS and sockjack the hell out of a twat who plays complete bullshit Cryx armies against new players. Apparently he was playing a eDenny heavy infantry army against a new Cygnar player tonight, went first, got some sort of fear off first turn, and had him locked down T2.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
Nightmare
Seether
Helljack Kit
2 Ripjaws
pSkarre
eDenny
Do it. You don't play hard control casters against newbies. It just kills the fun.
The wonders of a non-studio-colors paint job.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
Glad to hear it. I'm kind of surprised you didn't have better luck against the Satyxis -- RAT5+rangers+deadeye vs. DEF16 should be pretty reliable. Might be something I'm missing, though.
I've been playing the eHaley list a lot, and while the Defender+Stormclad one is solid, goddamn am I loving the 2xMinutemen+Avenger variation. Minutemen are brutal.
I think the nicest thing about that list is being able to commit my Stormclad and still have a backup assassination piece. In a game against a more careful opponent I feel like that could make an important difference. As it was, I only lost one system on the stormclad over the course of the game.
I'm pretty rabid for the Avenger. It'll be a huge change in my listbuilding. The only question is: stick it on the caster for potential melee beatdowns, or on the gun mages for long range knockdown.
One day I'd love to see a character avenger for Sloan, maybe with some sort of heavy scattergun instead of the quake cannon.
pKreoss
Templar
Reckoner
Redeemer
Wracks
Vassal
Min. Choir
Max Errants + UA
Daughters (maybe)
I'm kind of stumped what to do with my last five points. I think it's a toss up between Daughters and KE or a few solos (Nicia and a Paladin?).
Stick it on the caster. The extra 2" move from the bond is worth the loss of snipe IMO.
2011 PAX Warmachine/Hordes Champion
Imma be honest... I had forgotten you had just played eDenny when I picked Haley. I feel kinda bad about that, now.
I'd go with pEiryss and maybe Gorman? Maybe a hierophant? Alternately, add in Rhoven and a mechanic. Rhoven letting you ignore stealth is great for a drop'n'pop list. pEiryss stripping focus is also good for that.
Eh, no worries; your game was actually interesting and fun, whereas a stupid mistake I made turn 1 against Denny made that game a painful slog towards a total tabling that mercifully ended with a scenario loss.
On another subject...
And wait, there's more! A pull quote from today's Insider by Will Shick:
2011 PAX Warmachine/Hordes Champion
I meant in more general cases. Bonding it to eHaley is definitely the right move, but what about the other Cygnar casters. It's a wonderful multirole jack, but that leads to the question of which role to emphasize.
Commander Adept Nemo (*6pts)
* Lancer (6pts)
* Ol' Rowdy (9pts)
* Sylys Wyshnalyrr, the Seeker (2pts)
Black 13th Gun Mage Strike Team (4pts)
Stormguard (Leader and 9 Grunts) (9pts)
Captain Arlan Strangewayes (2pts)
Harlan Versh (2pts)
Journeyman Warcaster (3pts)
Lanyssa Ryssyll, Nyss Sorceress (2pts)
Rhupert Carvolo, Piper of Ord (2pts)
I'm still unsure about it though. I played against Old Witch, and she prevented me from pulling off any cool tricks. She also used gallows to pull in Ol' Rowdy to be killed by Doom Reavers. The lancer made a good bullet with five focus. I got an assassination off via chain lightning, but I never felt like I really had a handle on the game. The Stormguard never really engaged, and the Witch shut down most of my cool tricks.
I still don't really have a handle on pNemo, but I definitely saw that he has cool options. I'd welcome any new perspectives on how he works.
eNemo is still king of badass mountain though.
Go up there this morning on my way to work (around 11:30 am) since the window closes on Saturdays at like noon forr some stupid reason, expecting my War Store package full of Vyre to be there. No card in the box.
Go off to work.
Come home, check tracking number.
"Notice Left: March 17, 2012, 7:48 am"
NOTICE LEFT MY ASS.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
Whenever I run Ol' Rowdy with him, I take another 'jack to actually put focus onto - either a Stormclad or T-Pain. This's what I'd typically run at 35, sometimes swapping out Ol' Rowdy for a Centurion.
Points: 35/35
Commander Adept Nemo (*6pts)
* Lancer (6pts)
* Ol' Rowdy (9pts)
* Stormclad (10pts)
* Sylys Wyshnalyrr, the Seeker (2pts)
Black 13th Gun Mage Strike Team (4pts)
Stormblade Infantry (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5pts)
Captain Arlan Strangewayes (2pts)
Journeyman Warcaster (3pts)
Playing against Old Witch is a bad place to be for Cygnar in general, I feel. As if our infantry and mobility weren't mediocre enough, she absolutely destroys both of them. Armor stacking lists play okay against her, but you need to shut down/disrupt the 'Arc Node as early or often as possible to prevent gallows if you do. And on that note, I finally got to try out eNemo today, and holy shit is he fun to play. Tons of 'jacks on the board! I really like this list, too.
Points: 50/50
General Adept Nemo (*6pts)
* Charger (4pts)
* Charger (4pts)
* Minuteman (5pts)
* Centurion (9pts)
* Defender (9pts)
* Thunderhead (12pts)
* Sylys Wyshnalyrr, the Seeker (2pts)
Black 13th Gun Mage Strike Team (4pts)
Captain Arlan Strangewayes (2pts)
Journeyman Warcaster (3pts)
Stormsmith Stormcaller (1pts)
Stormsmith Stormcaller (1pts)
General Adept Nemo (*6pts)
* Hammersmith (8pts)
* Ol' Rowdy (9pts)
* Stormclad (10pts)
* Squire (2pts)
Stormblade Infantry (Leader and 5 Grunts) (5pts)
Captain Arlan Strangewayes (2pts)
Gorman di Wulfe, Rogue Alchemist (2pts)
Journeyman Warcaster (3pts)
Stack Armor. Lightning Shroud on the Hammersmith. The key here is you can put together enough focus to put up all your upkeeps first turn and still run all your jacks. The hammersmith is your kill piece. black oil a heavy target, then beat back and slam it over their caster. Strangewayes enables some fun energizer shenanigans with evasive, and keeps your jacks working. Feat on any turn where you can use 3 focus on two of your jacks. Don't fight people who can make rough terrain.