We went with 1 VP per kill for the bloodletter upgrade.
I've never liked Kingmaking. It takes what should be a game of skill and fortune and turns it into a matter of whatever mood the Kingmaker is in. In my group's CitOW games, anyone who realizes they can't possibly win anymore either keep trying their best to secure a better placement or just pass the last turn. The former is obviously better, but anything is better than intentional Kingmaking.
I can't remember who's totally new to the game, but dial victories are almost unheard of in the expansion and it never works out to go for them over victory points.
Ruination > domination > dial
That's pretty much the priority. You should almost never pass up the higher priorities for the lower. The only exception was the as is bloodletter upgrade but it seems like its nerf is a regular house rule now.
I can't remember who's totally new to the game, but dial victories are almost unheard of in the expansion and it never works out to go for them over victory points.
Pretty cool that Slaanesh has fuck-all ways to secure VP then, huh
I can't remember who's totally new to the game, but dial victories are almost unheard of in the expansion and it never works out to go for them over victory points.
Pretty cool that Slaanesh has fuck-all ways to secure VP then, huh
Personally I think he's the weakest god. Most of his upgrades revolve around building up a super point-generating region, but not only does this usually require two upgrades working in combination, he doesn't really have many means of adequately defending such a region.
0
Options
mi-go hunterOnce again I'm back in the lab.Cleaning my knives, ready for stabs.Registered Userregular
I can't remember who's totally new to the game, but dial victories are almost unheard of in the expansion and it never works out to go for them over victory points.
Pretty cool that Slaanesh has fuck-all ways to secure VP then, huh
Personally I think he's the weakest god. Most of his upgrades revolve around building up a super point-generating region, but not only does this usually require two upgrades working in combination, he doesn't really have many means of adequately defending such a region.
Hmm... I don't know about that. I managed to coordinate a VP victory with just the Rise to Glory upgrade. I didn't need two.
Morrslieb Slaanesh's defensive capabilities are still formidable with Pleasure Shield and Shroud of Secrets (peasant meatshields!)
I can't remember who's totally new to the game, but dial victories are almost unheard of in the expansion and it never works out to go for them over victory points.
Pretty cool that Slaanesh has fuck-all ways to secure VP then, huh
Personally I think he's the weakest god. Most of his upgrades revolve around building up a super point-generating region, but not only does this usually require two upgrades working in combination, he doesn't really have many means of adequately defending such a region.
Hmm... I don't know about that. I managed to coordinate a VP victory with just the Rise to Glory upgrade. I didn't need two.
Morrslieb Slaanesh's defensive capabilities are still formidable with Pleasure Shield and Shroud of Secrets (peasant meatshields!)
Which game?
0
Options
mi-go hunterOnce again I'm back in the lab.Cleaning my knives, ready for stabs.Registered Userregular
Yeah I figured I'd regret leaving the Vermin Lord there, but the 40% chance of you getting less than 3 hits seemed worth it to snag the 2nd place ruination. Oh well, so much for that upgrade being useful.
blahmcblahYou pick your side and you stick - you don't cut and run when things get ugly.Registered Userregular
edited August 2012
Round 4, End Phase
Board at the start of the end phase:
1. Remove Chaos Cards from the Board - no effects
2. Hero Tokens are resolved - A Bloodletter is killed in The Empire, a Bloodsworn dies in the ruins of Bretonnia, and a Leper is murdered in the ruins of Estalia
3. Resolve Old World cards - Witch Hunters erase all taint of Nurgle in The Empire
4. Score Ruined Regions - Tilea: +8 VP+4 VP, The Border Princes: +9 VP+4 VP
5. Advance Threat Dials - Khorne has the most DACs and ticks twice; all others besides Nurgle tick once
6. Check for Game end - At least one god has reached 50+ VP; the game ends.
TZEENTCH WINS A VP VICTORY!
Congratulations doldari!
Board at game's end:
blahmcblah on
0
Options
blahmcblahYou pick your side and you stick - you don't cut and run when things get ugly.Registered Userregular
From the lack of chatter in the thread, I'm guessing people hadn't figured out Tzeentch had it? Or maybe people just weren't around. Either way, that was entertaining. Thanks for playing and putting up with my sporadic updates, all!
I knew Tzeentch was in the lead, but I didn't see much else I could do this turn. I couldn't afford to pass up the chance at 8 VP in Border Princes if my Vermin Lord survived which was a 40% chance.
The other thing was I didn't think Tilea would ruin this round. Tzeentch would have had to put all his remaining points into summoning cultists there AND Khorne would have to whiff. I was considering moving my Vermin Lord there but again the chances at 8 VP in Border Princes and Tilea not ruining that round seemed good enough that I kept him in BR.
I had 2 doomwheels and a Warpstone cache in my hand and wanted to spend my remaining points on those. I was thinking about just playing those cards in Kislev without summoning any figures but was too paranoid of Mystical Disregard canceling one of them so I put 2 cultists there to ensure domination. Mystical Disregard is killer; even without using it its mere threat forces you to be cautious. If it wasn't for that threat I probably would have chucked a rat ogre in Border Princes or Tilea.
Had everything gone to plan, I would have gone into round 5 with 47 VP with 8 PP, a good position to once again dominate 4 VP Kislev, another 3 VP doomwheel card, leaving at least 5 PP to throw the Vermin Lord and some warriors in Tilea to knock off Tzeentch cultists and try for at least second place ruination.
Things I learned!
- Jesus, Mystical Disregard and Havoc. Seriously.
- Unless you can tell ahead of time that adjacent regions are going to be ruined and you're set up in the first one, the Horned Rat has no choice but to take Under Empire for his first upgrade.
- Triple check your edits when it comes to moves!
Advice!
I don't blame the new people for trying dial victories; it worked fine in the base game and it's what I would do if I was playing the expansion for the first time. There's just no way to tell until you play that the game is going to end with a VP win before anyone can dial win. Taking a look at the dial spaces and the fact that the game ends at turn 4 or 5, a player would practically have to double tick every single turn for a dial win (and even then Khorne/Nurgle couldn't win by turn 4).
That said, you're better off settling for one DAC per turn then concentrating everything else on VP. It's usually too risky to forsake VP in favor of trying to double dial tick. Tayrun's play would have been fine textbook base game Khorne, but in the expansion you're better off concentrating in key regions, going for domination/ruin and edging enemies out rather than spreading out a single warrior per region. With the bloodletter VP upgrade, a good idea is to bloodletter/bloodthirster the same region. That way you still get the VP for every kill, but the bloodthirster gets you more attack dice for the cost (not to mention taking triple the hits to kill).
With the exception of Nurgle, I think it's almost always worth it to summon your greater daemon over a warrior. It's such insanely better stats for just 50% more cost. Sure the greater daemon is going to make you lose out on one domination point, but it's also much more likely to survive combat and reach the domination phase.
Very interesting Nurgle first turn and upgrade strategy, but I can't picture it ever working long term. Looks like Nurgle is stuck picking Infested Colony and Leper upgrade forever.
Slaneesh...I dunno. I never could find a realistic winning strategy for him beyond hoping you have a favorable old world token setup, old world cards that plop down more heroes/nobles, and starting off with cards that let you move tokens. (Was that the case with Mi-goh's Slaneesh win?).
The dial thing was exactly the problem. I looked at my assets, saw I had relatively few cultists, so I assumed the game would be balanced around me attempting a dial victory instead.
I guess not.
0
Options
blahmcblahYou pick your side and you stick - you don't cut and run when things get ugly.Registered Userregular
edited March 2012
You're right, MrBody, that game was much closer than the score showed at the end. Both of those last two regions barely ruined in Tzeentch's favor, and if Nurgle had killed the Bloodletter instead of the Vermin Lord, we'd be doing round 5 with you on 47 (and 8 PP) to Tzeentch's 49, or if Khorne hadn't whiffed in Tilea, the score would also be quite different. The threat of Mystical Disregard is truly game-warping - not quite to the level of the non-nerfed Bloodletter upgrade - but still game-warping.
As for the overall balance... I think I must be living in defiance of perceived power levels, because I've won twice with Morrslieb Slaanesh, once with HR, and am on my way to my second loss with Morrslieb Tzeentch.
There was also a chance I could have won this round. If the Vermin Lord had survived Border Prince and I put both doomwheels in Kislev, I would have just squeeked in at 50 VP.
BUT, my experience is to never rely on a complicated plan that requires every aspect to go off perfectly. Tzeentch could have just Mystical Disregarded one of the doomwheels and the game would have gone on to round 5. Going with warpstone cache seemed like the much safer play, especially when I was counting on Tilea not ruining until next round.
As for the overall balance... I think I must be living in defiance of perceived power levels, because I've won twice with Morrslieb Slaanesh, once with HR, and am on my way to my second loss with Morrslieb Tzeentch.
I think that you are selling yourself short on the second Tzeentch loss. You could well win, you'll be in a good VP position come end of turn, though Khorne running away with it is looking likely.
The dial thing was exactly the problem. I looked at my assets, saw I had relatively few cultists, so I assumed the game would be balanced around me attempting a dial victory instead.
I guess not.
There have been a number of dial wins here by Khorne, I think it is games 47 and 54... So it is possible, just rare.
As for my Nurgle opening round it really got screwed by turn 2 and 3 old world cards. :evil:
I never count points so I didn't know the outcome of killing the Vermin Lord, I prefer to play on more of an intuition basis. But Telia ruining with the Khorne whiff went completely under my radar.
Posts
I've never liked Kingmaking. It takes what should be a game of skill and fortune and turns it into a matter of whatever mood the Kingmaker is in. In my group's CitOW games, anyone who realizes they can't possibly win anymore either keep trying their best to secure a better placement or just pass the last turn. The former is obviously better, but anything is better than intentional Kingmaking.
I can't remember who's totally new to the game, but dial victories are almost unheard of in the expansion and it never works out to go for them over victory points.
Ruination > domination > dial
That's pretty much the priority. You should almost never pass up the higher priorities for the lower. The only exception was the as is bloodletter upgrade but it seems like its nerf is a regular house rule now.
Pretty cool that Slaanesh has fuck-all ways to secure VP then, huh
Personally I think he's the weakest god. Most of his upgrades revolve around building up a super point-generating region, but not only does this usually require two upgrades working in combination, he doesn't really have many means of adequately defending such a region.
Hmm... I don't know about that. I managed to coordinate a VP victory with just the Rise to Glory upgrade. I didn't need two.
Morrslieb Slaanesh's defensive capabilities are still formidable with Pleasure Shield and Shroud of Secrets (peasant meatshields!)
Yup, that's me on Steam.
If you are interested in playing, discussing, or hosting Arkham Horror, click here!
Which game?
I should have 64, Khorne 61, Tzeentch 58, and Nurgle 43 VP
Yup, that's me on Steam.
If you are interested in playing, discussing, or hosting Arkham Horror, click here!
http://orokos.com/roll/c-CitOW+Game+66
3 hits in Border Princes. Kill Great Unclean One.
http://orokos.com/roll/64894
Domination step:
Kislev: +7 VP DAC, Cache claimed
Tilea: +3 VP
Corruption step:
The Empire: +2 DAC
Tilea: +4, +2 DAC - 3RD RUINED! - +4 VP +4 VP
The Border Princes: 4TH RUINED! - +5 VP +5 VP
Updated VP:
21 VP
26 + 5 = 31 VP
33 + 12 = 45 VP
7 + 4 = 11 VP
32 + 7 = 39 VP
Board at the start of the end phase:
1. Remove Chaos Cards from the Board - no effects
2. Hero Tokens are resolved - A Bloodletter is killed in The Empire, a Bloodsworn dies in the ruins of Bretonnia, and a Leper is murdered in the ruins of Estalia
3. Resolve Old World cards - Witch Hunters erase all taint of Nurgle in The Empire
4. Score Ruined Regions - Tilea: +8 VP +4 VP, The Border Princes: +9 VP +4 VP
5. Advance Threat Dials - Khorne has the most DACs and ticks twice; all others besides Nurgle tick once
23 - Upgrade
28 - Upgrade
20 - Upgrade
19 - Upgrade
16 - Upgrade
Updated VP:
Khorne: 21 VP
Nurgle: 31 + 8 = 39 VP
Tzeentch: 45 + 8 = 53 VP
Slaanesh: 11 + 9 = 20 VP
The Horned Rat: 39 VP
6. Check for Game end - At least one god has reached 50+ VP; the game ends.
TZEENTCH WINS A VP VICTORY!
Congratulations doldari!
Board at game's end:
Tnanks for playing everyone!
The other thing was I didn't think Tilea would ruin this round. Tzeentch would have had to put all his remaining points into summoning cultists there AND Khorne would have to whiff. I was considering moving my Vermin Lord there but again the chances at 8 VP in Border Princes and Tilea not ruining that round seemed good enough that I kept him in BR.
I had 2 doomwheels and a Warpstone cache in my hand and wanted to spend my remaining points on those. I was thinking about just playing those cards in Kislev without summoning any figures but was too paranoid of Mystical Disregard canceling one of them so I put 2 cultists there to ensure domination. Mystical Disregard is killer; even without using it its mere threat forces you to be cautious. If it wasn't for that threat I probably would have chucked a rat ogre in Border Princes or Tilea.
Had everything gone to plan, I would have gone into round 5 with 47 VP with 8 PP, a good position to once again dominate 4 VP Kislev, another 3 VP doomwheel card, leaving at least 5 PP to throw the Vermin Lord and some warriors in Tilea to knock off Tzeentch cultists and try for at least second place ruination.
Things I learned!
- Jesus, Mystical Disregard and Havoc. Seriously.
- Unless you can tell ahead of time that adjacent regions are going to be ruined and you're set up in the first one, the Horned Rat has no choice but to take Under Empire for his first upgrade.
- Triple check your edits when it comes to moves!
Advice!
I don't blame the new people for trying dial victories; it worked fine in the base game and it's what I would do if I was playing the expansion for the first time. There's just no way to tell until you play that the game is going to end with a VP win before anyone can dial win. Taking a look at the dial spaces and the fact that the game ends at turn 4 or 5, a player would practically have to double tick every single turn for a dial win (and even then Khorne/Nurgle couldn't win by turn 4).
That said, you're better off settling for one DAC per turn then concentrating everything else on VP. It's usually too risky to forsake VP in favor of trying to double dial tick. Tayrun's play would have been fine textbook base game Khorne, but in the expansion you're better off concentrating in key regions, going for domination/ruin and edging enemies out rather than spreading out a single warrior per region. With the bloodletter VP upgrade, a good idea is to bloodletter/bloodthirster the same region. That way you still get the VP for every kill, but the bloodthirster gets you more attack dice for the cost (not to mention taking triple the hits to kill).
With the exception of Nurgle, I think it's almost always worth it to summon your greater daemon over a warrior. It's such insanely better stats for just 50% more cost. Sure the greater daemon is going to make you lose out on one domination point, but it's also much more likely to survive combat and reach the domination phase.
Very interesting Nurgle first turn and upgrade strategy, but I can't picture it ever working long term. Looks like Nurgle is stuck picking Infested Colony and Leper upgrade forever.
Slaneesh...I dunno. I never could find a realistic winning strategy for him beyond hoping you have a favorable old world token setup, old world cards that plop down more heroes/nobles, and starting off with cards that let you move tokens. (Was that the case with Mi-goh's Slaneesh win?).
I guess not.
As for the overall balance... I think I must be living in defiance of perceived power levels, because I've won twice with Morrslieb Slaanesh, once with HR, and am on my way to my second loss with Morrslieb Tzeentch.
BUT, my experience is to never rely on a complicated plan that requires every aspect to go off perfectly. Tzeentch could have just Mystical Disregarded one of the doomwheels and the game would have gone on to round 5. Going with warpstone cache seemed like the much safer play, especially when I was counting on Tilea not ruining until next round.
I think that you are selling yourself short on the second Tzeentch loss. You could well win, you'll be in a good VP position come end of turn, though Khorne running away with it is looking likely.
There have been a number of dial wins here by Khorne, I think it is games 47 and 54... So it is possible, just rare.
As for my Nurgle opening round it really got screwed by turn 2 and 3 old world cards. :evil:
I never count points so I didn't know the outcome of killing the Vermin Lord, I prefer to play on more of an intuition basis. But Telia ruining with the Khorne whiff went completely under my radar.
Isn't it like 100-something for base?