Mr_Rose83 Blue Ridge Protects the HolyRegistered Userregular
Indeed; a necromancer and his wight bodyguard have five wounds to a vampire hero's two and are strategically more useful because one can be the BSB while the other is the General.
-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
Yeah, basically you'll want 2 heroes. One to be the general (which is always the caster with the highest leadership in a VC army) and a fighter hero, mostly because unless you're in a high point level game and have quite a few heroes that can take over maintaining the army, losing your general is crippling.
Taking a Necromancer and a Wight King puts the Necromancer as the general, and leaves the Wight King to do the fighting.You don't have all of it wrapped up in one Vampire who will be doing the fighting and casting heavy lifting, and be public enemy number 1 due to killing the whole army by killing him.
You trade one expensive hero for two moderately priced heroes who, while they come to a price more than the vampire combined, offer more versatility and safety. Once you expand to 1000pts, other heroes are still more cost effective, like Wraiths and Banshees.
Don't go with Vampires until you break 1500pts. While they're dead killy, have statlines to die for and can make great casters, once you've tooled them up a little they're very expensive.
Ah, and those are good points and I'll be sure to pass them along to my newbie friend.
Should I be doing the same thing with my tomb kings? A liche priest and prince? Bsb doesn't seem great in either undead army... Maybe I'll just use a prince for the ws bonus.
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Mr_Rose83 Blue Ridge Protects the HolyRegistered Userregular
I think Warhammer needs more Special Character BSBs to liven things up a little.
I don't understand how the BSB is such a must-have for most armies, but they made them pretty much useless to any ItP army. They couldn't have thought of something cool to do with BSB's for undead?
Which is pretty goddamn useful, thank you. Also, it still allows Ld re-rolls for all those pesky combat reforms and swift reforms (and frenzy restraint rolls), AND still gives +1 combat res. over and above a regular standard.
My friend and I are going to get back into Fantasy after a long break (and coming from a mostly 40K background) - he has decided to go with Skaven (and get the starter Box), and I am going to go with Empire.
If we have any knowledgeble Empire players I would love to hear what works well in a Empire army (not just against Skaven, but in general). I will be building the force from scratch (I currently have just 10 State Troops) so can go in any direction really.
For the paint scheme I am thinking Ostermark - I wanted to keep with an official scheme and Purple / Yellow just seems to look cool (and I have a post in the paint thread asking for advise with that). My only worry is if they are seen "everywhere" - I would like to choose a lesser used scheme so if there is any advise on that it will be great!
If I did stick with Ostermark - are there any units / choises that would be especially fluffy?
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Mr_Rose83 Blue Ridge Protects the HolyRegistered Userregular
I've never seen a full Ostermark army in person; mostly you see Altdorf, Talabheim, and Nuln. But in any case you should just roll whatever paint scheme you like the look of; you're the one who's going to have to repeat it 100 times after all and that is terrifyingly tedious with a scheme you don't like.
As for fluff; Ostermark is in the North, right next to Kislev and close enough to the Wastes that the people would probably want more priests than wizards hanging around, and I would expect more than the normal number of Flagellants too. Shipping cannon up there would be a pain so you might not have ans many, and there would be nowhere near as many whiz-bang gadgets and experimental weapons (nor the engineers to maintain them) up that way either. More crossbows than handguns too, for similar reasons.
Looks like I may be onto a winner then as I really like the Purple / Yellow split (I say that now, things could change after trying to paint the yellow :P)
Fluff wise (and to show my ignorance of the setting), why would they want priests more than wizards and why would Flagellants be there in large numbers? Would Chaos be lurking nearby?
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Mr_Rose83 Blue Ridge Protects the HolyRegistered Userregular
Aye, that. The Warhammer World has two primary sources of Chaos and chaotic material, one at each geographic pole, caused by the collapse of the Warp Gates used as a means of travel by the Old Ones. No-one knows why/how the gates collapsed and indeed most folk arent even aware of the gates or that the world was ever any different than it is.
Still, they are aware that chaos==bad and the Empire in particular has a love/hate relationship with Wizards, not least because the magic men use was taught to them by the elves, but mostly because the warp gates are also the source of all magical power in the world, so anything to do with manipulating that is mistrusted.
Priests, on the other hand, are granted their power by the gods so they must be good men and true.
So it sounds like the following could work from a fluff point of view; A solid core of State Troops with Crossbow detachments, some roudy Free Company militia, a pasing nightly order, a couple of rusty antique cannons, Battlepriests, and a cliche mistrusted state mage. No idea how that would fit in an army list but that can be worked on later
With detachments... can you add two of the same detachment to a parent unit? From what I understand you an have a detachment that is from 5 men up to half the parent unit size, and each parent can have 2 detachments. Does that mean an unit of 10 Swordsmen could have two detachments of 5 Crossbowmen each. (Not saying that is a good config, just as an example).
Edit: The army talks about Lutor Huss fighting Skaven / Beastmen etc. As Skaven look like they will be my primary foe would he be worth picking up at all?
Supposedly Empire are getting a new book April 7th-ish...so keep that in mind. One of the reasons I haven't pulled the trigger on TK yet is because I'm drawn to the Empire fluff/playstyle more. If only their models didn't look pants-on-head ridiculous to me
And @Mr_Rose, I can see the value in taking one less wound from crumbling, especially in things like Constructs where one wound can mean a lot. I just don't think it's on par with how much value other armies get out of a BSB. I think the BSB is a really cool idea from a fluff standpoint, I'd like to see something more flavorful...like rerolling a d6 for healing or something (for TK, that'd be pretty broken for VC).
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-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
The big draw used to be being able to take some nasty magic banners. Like the Drakenhof banner, giving the unit a 4+ regeneration save. When put on a unit og Grave Guard, it gave them a 5+ Heavy Armour save and a 4+ Regeneration save.
I haven't seen the new stuff yet, so I can't comment on the magic banners in the new book.
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Mr_Rose83 Blue Ridge Protects the HolyRegistered Userregular
Has anyone else noticed how absurd Krell is? I was just looking through the summary when I spotted he had four wounds and thought that had to be a typo, so I looke him up properly; 4W, T5, and magic armour that destroys any magic weapon it saves against, plus his famous axe with the creeping shards. Dude is an unliving tank.
Does Nagash still have a stat line or did the idea of him on the tabletop die with that awful goofy figure they gave him back in the day when I still played?
No more statline. Though I'd love to see an insane Storm of Magic Warhammer Forge version someday.
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-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
edited March 2012
I was pretty annoyed when they didn't give us some 'ultimate' spellcaster characters with Storm of Magic, and resurrect Nagash. Seemed the perfect chance to do it. But they were too focused on the monsters. It would be great if Warhammer Forge tackled it.
The problem is, he fits more in with a Tomb Kings army with the Vampire Counts heroes sans Vampires (since he's pretty pissed at them for failing him). It would basically need to be done as a Nagash army book, with Nagash as the compulsory lord and units mixed from both Tomb Kings and Vampire Counts. Which, again, would be good for a Warhammer Forge thing.
As a break from painting I figured I'd try out my idea for the magnetized movement trays. Basically, I got a big roll of adhesive magnet sheets from Michael's ($10 for what I think is 2-3 8x11 sheets) and a bunch of the tiny disc rare earth magnets. I used greenstuff to get the magnets flush with the bottom of the bases on my Warhounds, and voila!
It works really well, with a few hangups. The adhesive is terrible on the magnet sheet, I don't think it'd work well even for the hobby applications it's meant for. I just used super glue to stick it down to the movement tray. You've got to get it close to the edges of the sheeting though, so you don't have it start to raise up. The Warhounds were a bit wiggly with only one magnet, so I used two. That should be enough for all models. The Warhounds also sit on those cavalry bases with bars on the bottom, so I had to use an exacto knife to carve out a little notch for the magnet's to fit.
End result though? 5 minutes worth of work, magnetized tray of Warhounds. Now I just need more magnets...
A quick question for @Mr_Rose or anyone else that is good with Empire fluff. I am starting to feel less confident with Ostermark, and after a couple of evenings trying to decide on an "official" region for my force to be from I am coming up blank.
How realistic would a "Mercenary" force be (I was partly inspired by watching a Let's Play of Dark Omen) as if this would be reasonable within established fluff I am thinking I could make it a fun army to build. I would still focus on melee infantry (state troopers / militia), with supporting fire coming from crossbows (not rifles). Rather than Battle Priests I could throw in a few mages, and Cannons would still be viable - but the "fancy" experimental weapons would remain out (which doesn’t bother me). The only sticking point could be cavalry, but I am sure that could be worked out.
Just a few quick snapshots of magnetic tray action:
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tzeentchlingDoctor of RocksOaklandRegistered Userregular
For my magnetic movement trays, I got a sheet of metal, I guess designed for some sort of siding. Then I just cut it out and glue it to whatever I'm using for the trays, and do the magnets-in-the-bases trick you've got going. The metal sticks much more permanently and won't curl up, and the attraction is enough to hold them upside down.
Man, I somehow stumbled into a bit of a rabbit hole.
I started watching Youtube batreps by Bluetablepainting...sometimes they can be a bit OTT but they generally walk through each and every step of the game, rather than just end of turn recaps. They cut out the bits of them looking up rules and reorganizing models or whatever, but the end result is that each game video is like 2-3 hours (broken up into segments).
Anyways, it's surprisingly good to have on in the background while I'm working. What's worse, is seeing the way some of these armies plays makes me rethink some stuff...it's not as good as playing with an army, but it's leagues ahead of paperhammer. Some of the TK stuff I was so excited about isn't that great once I stop looking at it in a vacuum and realize how it'll work on the table. The Sphinx, for example, sounds sweet at T8 but tons of stuff still wounds it on 6's, and there's plenty of ways to bring 40 attacks to bear.
At the very least, I'm way more confident in my understanding of the rules, considering how many those guys seem to botch
I'm already learning a lot just watching these videos. It's really making me rethink what my next army will be, because Empire looks pretty sweet sitting on the table and they look like a lot of fun to play. If only we had some WD leaks...
I remember someone saying in the 40k thread that the reason the Nids book sucks is because he mixed up Fantasy concepts, which he's more familiar with, into the 40k rules. That reeks of amateurism which frightens me, even if Fantasy is his comfort zone.
Plus, the TK book has some glaring errors. Things like healing constructs which, if written properly, could make the book a lot more fun to play.
So the GW store in my neck of the woods closed today. The next one by is a battle bunker and it is about 45-1hr depending on traffic. This sure sucks as I lost my gaming store when I was around 14 and there were some kids there today that were about that age so that sucks, especially how I know some of them sort of made friends there. The manager was giving a way a bunch of promo stuff. I got some nice posters, there was some food and it was an overall somber kinda event, though the fucking place was packed! Pretty much everyone showed up, including some less than welcome faces.
Big take aways, I finally bought for $15 the Gamesday Skaven metal model- so that's nice. I got a warp lightning cannon kit. Also you guys know those huge wall pictures of the different armies in GW stores? Yeah, I got the Skaven one. Some folks were peeling them off and the Skaven one came out pretty good. It now looks like an old tapestry. I'll probably mount it against some crescent board and hang it up.
Posts
Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
Taking a Necromancer and a Wight King puts the Necromancer as the general, and leaves the Wight King to do the fighting.You don't have all of it wrapped up in one Vampire who will be doing the fighting and casting heavy lifting, and be public enemy number 1 due to killing the whole army by killing him.
You trade one expensive hero for two moderately priced heroes who, while they come to a price more than the vampire combined, offer more versatility and safety. Once you expand to 1000pts, other heroes are still more cost effective, like Wraiths and Banshees.
Don't go with Vampires until you break 1500pts. While they're dead killy, have statlines to die for and can make great casters, once you've tooled them up a little they're very expensive.
Should I be doing the same thing with my tomb kings? A liche priest and prince? Bsb doesn't seem great in either undead army... Maybe I'll just use a prince for the ws bonus.
Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
Which is pretty goddamn useful, thank you. Also, it still allows Ld re-rolls for all those pesky combat reforms and swift reforms (and frenzy restraint rolls), AND still gives +1 combat res. over and above a regular standard.
Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
If we have any knowledgeble Empire players I would love to hear what works well in a Empire army (not just against Skaven, but in general). I will be building the force from scratch (I currently have just 10 State Troops) so can go in any direction really.
For the paint scheme I am thinking Ostermark - I wanted to keep with an official scheme and Purple / Yellow just seems to look cool (and I have a post in the paint thread asking for advise with that). My only worry is if they are seen "everywhere" - I would like to choose a lesser used scheme so if there is any advise on that it will be great!
If I did stick with Ostermark - are there any units / choises that would be especially fluffy?
As for fluff; Ostermark is in the North, right next to Kislev and close enough to the Wastes that the people would probably want more priests than wizards hanging around, and I would expect more than the normal number of Flagellants too. Shipping cannon up there would be a pain so you might not have ans many, and there would be nowhere near as many whiz-bang gadgets and experimental weapons (nor the engineers to maintain them) up that way either. More crossbows than handguns too, for similar reasons.
Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
Fluff wise (and to show my ignorance of the setting), why would they want priests more than wizards and why would Flagellants be there in large numbers? Would Chaos be lurking nearby?
Still, they are aware that chaos==bad and the Empire in particular has a love/hate relationship with Wizards, not least because the magic men use was taught to them by the elves, but mostly because the warp gates are also the source of all magical power in the world, so anything to do with manipulating that is mistrusted.
Priests, on the other hand, are granted their power by the gods so they must be good men and true.
Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
With detachments... can you add two of the same detachment to a parent unit? From what I understand you an have a detachment that is from 5 men up to half the parent unit size, and each parent can have 2 detachments. Does that mean an unit of 10 Swordsmen could have two detachments of 5 Crossbowmen each. (Not saying that is a good config, just as an example).
Edit: The army talks about Lutor Huss fighting Skaven / Beastmen etc. As Skaven look like they will be my primary foe would he be worth picking up at all?
And @Mr_Rose, I can see the value in taking one less wound from crumbling, especially in things like Constructs where one wound can mean a lot. I just don't think it's on par with how much value other armies get out of a BSB. I think the BSB is a really cool idea from a fluff standpoint, I'd like to see something more flavorful...like rerolling a d6 for healing or something (for TK, that'd be pretty broken for VC).
I haven't seen the new stuff yet, so I can't comment on the magic banners in the new book.
Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
Does Nagash still have a stat line or did the idea of him on the tabletop die with that awful goofy figure they gave him back in the day when I still played?
The problem is, he fits more in with a Tomb Kings army with the Vampire Counts heroes sans Vampires (since he's pretty pissed at them for failing him). It would basically need to be done as a Nagash army book, with Nagash as the compulsory lord and units mixed from both Tomb Kings and Vampire Counts. Which, again, would be good for a Warhammer Forge thing.
As a break from painting I figured I'd try out my idea for the magnetized movement trays. Basically, I got a big roll of adhesive magnet sheets from Michael's ($10 for what I think is 2-3 8x11 sheets) and a bunch of the tiny disc rare earth magnets. I used greenstuff to get the magnets flush with the bottom of the bases on my Warhounds, and voila!
It works really well, with a few hangups. The adhesive is terrible on the magnet sheet, I don't think it'd work well even for the hobby applications it's meant for. I just used super glue to stick it down to the movement tray. You've got to get it close to the edges of the sheeting though, so you don't have it start to raise up. The Warhounds were a bit wiggly with only one magnet, so I used two. That should be enough for all models. The Warhounds also sit on those cavalry bases with bars on the bottom, so I had to use an exacto knife to carve out a little notch for the magnet's to fit.
End result though? 5 minutes worth of work, magnetized tray of Warhounds. Now I just need more magnets...
How realistic would a "Mercenary" force be (I was partly inspired by watching a Let's Play of Dark Omen) as if this would be reasonable within established fluff I am thinking I could make it a fun army to build. I would still focus on melee infantry (state troopers / militia), with supporting fire coming from crossbows (not rifles). Rather than Battle Priests I could throw in a few mages, and Cannons would still be viable - but the "fancy" experimental weapons would remain out (which doesn’t bother me). The only sticking point could be cavalry, but I am sure that could be worked out.
I started watching Youtube batreps by Bluetablepainting...sometimes they can be a bit OTT but they generally walk through each and every step of the game, rather than just end of turn recaps. They cut out the bits of them looking up rules and reorganizing models or whatever, but the end result is that each game video is like 2-3 hours (broken up into segments).
Anyways, it's surprisingly good to have on in the background while I'm working. What's worse, is seeing the way some of these armies plays makes me rethink some stuff...it's not as good as playing with an army, but it's leagues ahead of paperhammer. Some of the TK stuff I was so excited about isn't that great once I stop looking at it in a vacuum and realize how it'll work on the table. The Sphinx, for example, sounds sweet at T8 but tons of stuff still wounds it on 6's, and there's plenty of ways to bring 40 attacks to bear.
At the very least, I'm way more confident in my understanding of the rules, considering how many those guys seem to botch
I'm already learning a lot just watching these videos. It's really making me rethink what my next army will be, because Empire looks pretty sweet sitting on the table and they look like a lot of fun to play. If only we had some WD leaks...
Oh now I remember.
I remember someone saying in the 40k thread that the reason the Nids book sucks is because he mixed up Fantasy concepts, which he's more familiar with, into the 40k rules. That reeks of amateurism which frightens me, even if Fantasy is his comfort zone.
Plus, the TK book has some glaring errors. Things like healing constructs which, if written properly, could make the book a lot more fun to play.
http://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/157676/interest-warhammer-fantasy-roleplay-1st-ed-pbp
Big take aways, I finally bought for $15 the Gamesday Skaven metal model- so that's nice. I got a warp lightning cannon kit. Also you guys know those huge wall pictures of the different armies in GW stores? Yeah, I got the Skaven one. Some folks were peeling them off and the Skaven one came out pretty good. It now looks like an old tapestry. I'll probably mount it against some crescent board and hang it up.