But I do agree that this is sort of a weirdly critical junction for games and the interplay between creators and their consumers, as well as for games as art
indeed.
perhaps...a thread?
oooo...
My only problem is I am trying so hard to avoid spoilers because if it works out I am picking this game up in two weeks
Yeah...
I think we could argue about it in the abstract, and avoid spoilers...
surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
idk why this is such a surprising thing
its only recently that content creators have been able to control the content that you have bought from them after you bought it
if you wanted to change the ending to a book youd have to mail out a new ending and get them to stick it in
whereas for this you can literally deliver a new ending to people
if books had been digital from the start poor old dickens would have been inundated with letters asking for happy endings and petitions and then beaten with oversized quills
i am baffled by people who see this as a question of "art" - its just simply not been a practical thing to do until now
Man, this whole thing with ME3 has spawned some type of awesome meta-commentary regarding how people perceive the artistic process really.
I'm interested in the articles about how this indicates gamers don't really think games are art.
You don't demand that an artist change its art.
Yeah, I can understand being mad at an ending, but insisting that the ending be changed is fucking weird to me, and my gut reaction is to call them all a bunch of entitled crapbags.
As someone who has not played through it all yet
I find it weird that people donated money to charity to get the ending changed.
Confused bros
Confused
I think the phrase Entitled Crapbags is incredibly appropriate for this kind of thing.
donating money to charity and saying please change it to something that doesn't suck is being a crapbag?
donating money to charity is always cool, but pairing charity with the other weird outrage does not quell my opinion of the weird outrage
like, if you gave a bunch of money to charity and said WE THINK APARTHIED IS NIFTY AND SHOULD COME BACK it wouldn't make it alright. (And yes, I chose something like that to be an embellishment and not a direct comparison)
I mean, I guess it's a testament to how involved a lot of people felt in the story, but at the end of the day it's a story being created by someone else. Thinking that you have any right to dictate what they want their story to be is ridiculous to me. I mean I've had many films that I thought should have handled things differently, as I'm sure many of us have, but I would never try to force the people to redo it the way I wanted. That's fucking dumb.
So yes, entitled crapbags can give money to charity and still be entitled crapbags.
that's a wierd definition of forcing, right there
It's an attempt to force a change through social outrage. I don't think it's that weird, I think it communicates pretty well what's happening. Like, "suggestion" doesn't work when it's a big chunk of angry frothing fans. A suggestion would be like "maybe don't end things quite like this next time" not "YOU GUYS NEED TO CHANGE THIS ENDING IT IS UNACCEPTABLE EVERYONE SPREAD THE WORD THIS WILL NOT STAND"
whole point of the charity guys was not to be like the entitled crapbags
and they're not!
they're going
hey, we're not being entitled crapbags
we would just like a better ending, to an amazing thing we love
Oh are the charity guys separate and not frothy? Cause I guess that's fine if it's just a request of new content. Especially if what they're requesting is optional DLC. Nothing wrong with asking for new/more content necessarily. It's the idea that fans would demand a damn do-over because they didn't like part of a story. If you didn't like an ending, that's just an ending you didn't like. It is not a slight that must be corrected.
its only recently that content creators have been able to control the content that you have bought from them after you bought it
if you wanted to change the ending to a book youd have to mail out a new ending and get them to stick it in
whereas for this you can literally deliver a new ending to people
if books had been digital from the start poor old dickens would have been inundated with letters asking for happy endings and petitions and then beaten with oversized quills
i am baffled by people who see this as a question of "art" - its just simply not been a practical thing to do until now
If someone is receptive to making new endings to their thing then fine but getting pressured to do it because your fanbase is revolting makes me feel sorry for Bioware.
its only recently that content creators have been able to control the content that you have bought from them after you bought it
if you wanted to change the ending to a book youd have to mail out a new ending and get them to stick it in
whereas for this you can literally deliver a new ending to people
if books had been digital from the start poor old dickens would have been inundated with letters asking for happy endings and petitions and then beaten with oversized quills
i am baffled by people who see this as a question of "art" - its just simply not been a practical thing to do until now
they're not gonna change the ending, I'm sure
make an epilogue or an appending bit of something that makes it go down better, probably
Man, this whole thing with ME3 has spawned some type of awesome meta-commentary regarding how people perceive the artistic process really.
I'm interested in the articles about how this indicates gamers don't really think games are art.
You don't demand that an artist change its art.
Yeah, I can understand being mad at an ending, but insisting that the ending be changed is fucking weird to me, and my gut reaction is to call them all a bunch of entitled crapbags.
As someone who has not played through it all yet
I find it weird that people donated money to charity to get the ending changed.
Confused bros
Confused
I think the phrase Entitled Crapbags is incredibly appropriate for this kind of thing.
donating money to charity and saying please change it to something that doesn't suck is being a crapbag?
donating money to charity is always cool, but pairing charity with the other weird outrage does not quell my opinion of the weird outrage
like, if you gave a bunch of money to charity and said WE THINK APARTHIED IS NIFTY AND SHOULD COME BACK it wouldn't make it alright. (And yes, I chose something like that to be an embellishment and not a direct comparison)
I mean, I guess it's a testament to how involved a lot of people felt in the story, but at the end of the day it's a story being created by someone else. Thinking that you have any right to dictate what they want their story to be is ridiculous to me. I mean I've had many films that I thought should have handled things differently, as I'm sure many of us have, but I would never try to force the people to redo it the way I wanted. That's fucking dumb.
So yes, entitled crapbags can give money to charity and still be entitled crapbags.
that's a wierd definition of forcing, right there
It's an attempt to force a change through social outrage. I don't think it's that weird, I think it communicates pretty well what's happening. Like, "suggestion" doesn't work when it's a big chunk of angry frothing fans. A suggestion would be like "maybe don't end things quite like this next time" not "YOU GUYS NEED TO CHANGE THIS ENDING IT IS UNACCEPTABLE EVERYONE SPREAD THE WORD THIS WILL NOT STAND"
whole point of the charity guys was not to be like the entitled crapbags
and they're not!
they're going
hey, we're not being entitled crapbags
we would just like a better ending, to an amazing thing we love
Oh are the charity guys separate and not frothy? Cause I guess that's fine if it's just a request of new content. Especially if what they're requesting is optional DLC. Nothing wrong with asking for new/more content necessarily. It's the idea that fans would demand a damn do-over because they didn't like part of a story. If you didn't like an ending, that's just an ending you didn't like. It is not a slight that must be corrected.
yeah the charity thing was specifically meant to be anti-frothy
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SarksusATTACK AND DETHRONE GODRegistered Userregular
But I do agree that this is sort of a weirdly critical junction for games and the interplay between creators and their consumers, as well as for games as art
indeed.
perhaps...a thread?
oooo...
My only problem is I am trying so hard to avoid spoilers because if it works out I am picking this game up in two weeks
Yeah...
I think we could argue about it in the abstract, and avoid spoilers...
I hope, but I am not touching it yet
Maybe I will
I dont know
Make a thread!
Working on OP.
0
Options
surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
arch you do realise the donations go to childs play rite
re: bioware's fanbase
theyre big boys, im sure theyll be fine
their vocal fanbase has always been stuffed to the gills with vile excrescences so this will hardly be new to any of them that have ever ventured into the forums - see what happened after da2
its just in this case theres one particular issue to rally around, rather than a whole bunch of things (as was the case with da2, which suffered from more than one obvious problem)
i mean it sucks to be told something you made was crap but... in this case i cant think of a single person i know who has actually said they thought the ending was good, so its not like its a terrible stretch. if they produce a better ending to the whole thing that leaves people feeling emotionally satisfied its a net win. plus they get to learn something about why their old ending was shitty and they improve and everybody is happy and the children will dance and sing with gumdrop smiles
Man, this whole thing with ME3 has spawned some type of awesome meta-commentary regarding how people perceive the artistic process really.
I'm interested in the articles about how this indicates gamers don't really think games are art.
You don't demand that an artist change its art.
Yeah, I can understand being mad at an ending, but insisting that the ending be changed is fucking weird to me, and my gut reaction is to call them all a bunch of entitled crapbags.
As someone who has not played through it all yet
I find it weird that people donated money to charity to get the ending changed.
Confused bros
Confused
I think the phrase Entitled Crapbags is incredibly appropriate for this kind of thing.
donating money to charity and saying please change it to something that doesn't suck is being a crapbag?
donating money to charity is always cool, but pairing charity with the other weird outrage does not quell my opinion of the weird outrage
like, if you gave a bunch of money to charity and said WE THINK APARTHIED IS NIFTY AND SHOULD COME BACK it wouldn't make it alright. (And yes, I chose something like that to be an embellishment and not a direct comparison)
I mean, I guess it's a testament to how involved a lot of people felt in the story, but at the end of the day it's a story being created by someone else. Thinking that you have any right to dictate what they want their story to be is ridiculous to me. I mean I've had many films that I thought should have handled things differently, as I'm sure many of us have, but I would never try to force the people to redo it the way I wanted. That's fucking dumb.
So yes, entitled crapbags can give money to charity and still be entitled crapbags.
that's a wierd definition of forcing, right there
It's an attempt to force a change through social outrage. I don't think it's that weird, I think it communicates pretty well what's happening. Like, "suggestion" doesn't work when it's a big chunk of angry frothing fans. A suggestion would be like "maybe don't end things quite like this next time" not "YOU GUYS NEED TO CHANGE THIS ENDING IT IS UNACCEPTABLE EVERYONE SPREAD THE WORD THIS WILL NOT STAND"
whole point of the charity guys was not to be like the entitled crapbags
and they're not!
they're going
hey, we're not being entitled crapbags
we would just like a better ending, to an amazing thing we love
Oh are the charity guys separate and not frothy? Cause I guess that's fine if it's just a request of new content. Especially if what they're requesting is optional DLC. Nothing wrong with asking for new/more content necessarily. It's the idea that fans would demand a damn do-over because they didn't like part of a story. If you didn't like an ending, that's just an ending you didn't like. It is not a slight that must be corrected.
pretty sure not ending things like that would not be a problem when making a new game since it would be a new game and not the same
They're not really all that good at it. Like, they got some bits down that was really fun eventually - the shooting itself, in ME3, what with all the weapons and such - but they're still doing bad sticky cover and such
maybe if they get the chance to start over they can make gameplay that's thoroughly good, instead of something that at best feels rotten in the core.
I'm just thinking
what kind of game would be best for them? What would benefit most from the bioware way of doing things?
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Options
ElldrenIs a woman dammitceterum censeoRegistered Userregular
its only recently that content creators have been able to control the content that you have bought from them after you bought it
if you wanted to change the ending to a book youd have to mail out a new ending and get them to stick it in
whereas for this you can literally deliver a new ending to people
if books had been digital from the start poor old dickens would have been inundated with letters asking for happy endings and petitions and then beaten with oversized quills
i am baffled by people who see this as a question of "art" - its just simply not been a practical thing to do until now
Posts
less worthy charity?
it's not a charity
it's a reason to give to charity
I hope, but I am not touching it yet
Maybe I will
I dont know
Make a thread!
I grew up a meat and potatoes boy.
Losing my religion.
its only recently that content creators have been able to control the content that you have bought from them after you bought it
if you wanted to change the ending to a book youd have to mail out a new ending and get them to stick it in
whereas for this you can literally deliver a new ending to people
if books had been digital from the start poor old dickens would have been inundated with letters asking for happy endings and petitions and then beaten with oversized quills
i am baffled by people who see this as a question of "art" - its just simply not been a practical thing to do until now
I haven't had meat all day
if you don't count nibbling at the fridge
yesterday I had a lunch of meat, with meat
and spaghetti carbonara for dinner
fair enough I guess
next time they make a game
Oh are the charity guys separate and not frothy? Cause I guess that's fine if it's just a request of new content. Especially if what they're requesting is optional DLC. Nothing wrong with asking for new/more content necessarily. It's the idea that fans would demand a damn do-over because they didn't like part of a story. If you didn't like an ending, that's just an ending you didn't like. It is not a slight that must be corrected.
PSN/XBL: Zampanov -- Steam: Zampanov
If someone is receptive to making new endings to their thing then fine but getting pressured to do it because your fanbase is revolting makes me feel sorry for Bioware.
Someone please tell us, we have no idea
seriously
SO GOOOOOD...
Check out my site, the Bismuth Heart | My Twitter
they're not gonna change the ending, I'm sure
make an epilogue or an appending bit of something that makes it go down better, probably
which is not unheard of in other media
Anybody know what's going in America...?
No, really, what are you referring to?
yeah the charity thing was specifically meant to be anti-frothy
as blackmail goes, "do as I say or I'll not donate all this money to charity after all!" isn't so bad
Working on OP.
re: bioware's fanbase
theyre big boys, im sure theyll be fine
their vocal fanbase has always been stuffed to the gills with vile excrescences so this will hardly be new to any of them that have ever ventured into the forums - see what happened after da2
its just in this case theres one particular issue to rally around, rather than a whole bunch of things (as was the case with da2, which suffered from more than one obvious problem)
i mean it sucks to be told something you made was crap but... in this case i cant think of a single person i know who has actually said they thought the ending was good, so its not like its a terrible stretch. if they produce a better ending to the whole thing that leaves people feeling emotionally satisfied its a net win. plus they get to learn something about why their old ending was shitty and they improve and everybody is happy and the children will dance and sing with gumdrop smiles
pretty sure not ending things like that would not be a problem when making a new game since it would be a new game and not the same
Tanks rolled into Beijing and apparently shots have been fired. There are rumors of a coup but the internet censors cracked down on them pretty hard.
i should have said "reasons to donate to charity"
bioware will emerge stronger from this experience and go on to glorious things
take the long view, people
A: Infuriates entitled crapbags
B: Inspires calmer people to give to charity
C: Guarantees DLC purchases
It's win win win
PSN/XBL: Zampanov -- Steam: Zampanov
Fuck if my fanbase was crazy I'd troll the fuck out of them.
what'll Bioware's next thing be, after DA3?
When I heard the story, it was just gunfire. Seems to be a rumour though.
Wait are they making a third Dragon Age? Man.
it would definitely be cool to see a new IP
maybe they could do a western!
PSN/XBL: Zampanov -- Steam: Zampanov
I heard rumours about that. Rumours I heard here though. Hang on. Will investigate.
Gay cowboys.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/mar/21/inside-the-ring-436080940/
There are other sources. They're all just rumors though. I know a few people here live in China so I was hoping somebody might have some info here.
I have searched my g-mail, gone through my documents file on both computers, and checked my school e-mail
I KNOW I did this I just have no idea where it is.
honestly unless they live in the relevant part of beijing itself, they are unlikely to have better information than random Chinese netizens
No they should definitely suck money out of the whiners.
PSN/XBL: Zampanov -- Steam: Zampanov
Eeeeeeh. More shooting?
They're not really all that good at it. Like, they got some bits down that was really fun eventually - the shooting itself, in ME3, what with all the weapons and such - but they're still doing bad sticky cover and such
maybe if they get the chance to start over they can make gameplay that's thoroughly good, instead of something that at best feels rotten in the core.
I'm just thinking
what kind of game would be best for them? What would benefit most from the bioware way of doing things?
you say that as if that didn't happen to Dickens