I'm already aware of the normal requirements for applying to Army OCS as a civilian, and I meet those fine. It's just that the final two stages after a completed packet are an interview with a selection board comprised of officers from my recruiter's battalion, and then if you are recommended by them a final decision made at the national level.
Again, my recruiters may be full of shit, but over the past few months as I've assembled everything I needed, they went from pretty excited and confident about my chances to telling me that there are just way too many applicants in my area, many of them high-quality, and that the selection boards are getting extremely competitive - and even then if you're recommended you're not guaranteed anything. The only thing I can really improve at this point is my PT score - meanwhile I'm still unemployed in a dead town with no work and can't afford to get away. I was the one who suggested to them (after researching everything) enlisting in 35w and then possibly going green-to-gold from there.
Don't get me wrong, I'm joining for more than financial reasons, its just that I can't afford to wait around any longer for longshot odds.
As previously mentioned, there are several prorams in place to go from E to O. If you need in, then E is the fastest and easiest route, but there's no guarantee of a chance to go O.
At the very least, don't go in without the job you want in writing as your designated field.
Very well, in that situation you could do a lot worse than enlisting as a linguist. Just remember that a recruiter can be one helluva nice guy but is never your friend. It's entirely possible that he's overstating the current board requirements because you are more important to him in a harder to fill linguist spot. Also, you may want to check available duty stations for the different languages you qualify for. Some of my linguists had essentially 3 units they could go too. Different branch but something to check all the same.
Yeah, I'm happy enough with my recruiters, they probably bullshit me occasionally but I've been around enough to at least catch the scent of it in the air when it happens. I just have issues with them sometimes seeming like they are half-assing things, which only really affects me (shit rolls downhill and all). There's no university for a couple hours in any direction here, so they don't get much else but high-schoolers and burn-outs in the station; they've never put a linguist in, for example, so I was the one who had to ask to take the DLAB and I was like the first guy to take it from that station in a LONG time. I was the one to tell them that the Army just cut down the MOSes that qualify for enlistment bonuses down to 6 from over 100. And now, getting me in front of a contract to sign has been like pulling teeth (and it still hasn't happened). But it's something I've gotten over, since I'm pretty sure that's just how things work in this system - keep your head on a swivel and pay attention to the things with your name attached.
Sorta, not really. Like Iceman said about the USAF, applies to the Army. They can predict roughly how many people they will gain in new Officers at least two years out based upon attendance at West Point and the number of contracted ROTC cadets. Promotion rate for junior officers is set, and slots available rarely change across the board. Based off that they can figure out how many OCS slots to offer to current and incoming Soldiers. Excess people don't get selected for Active service and enter the Guard or Reserve.
I guess my confusion stems from how "up in the air" your application process seems to be. For example, if you wish to join the CF, you goto a recruitment center and discuss with the recruitment staff your various options for joining. Naturally, they have certain jobs they need more than others, so they will try to direct you to certain careers. After that, you do your CFAT, interview and application, wait for a review board response and then choose whether to accept your contract or not.
By comparison, our system seems much more streamlined, and I think that is what causes me to view your's as convoluted. However, I do realize the US military operates differently (divides between the different "elements" are more formal, etc.) and on a much larger scale.
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jungleroomxIt's never too many graves, it's always not enough shovelsRegistered Userregular
Yeah, I'm happy enough with my recruiters, they probably bullshit me occasionally but I've been around enough to at least catch the scent of it in the air when it happens. I just have issues with them sometimes seeming like they are half-assing things, which only really affects me (shit rolls downhill and all). There's no university for a couple hours in any direction here, so they don't get much else but high-schoolers and burn-outs in the station; they've never put a linguist in, for example, so I was the one who had to ask to take the DLAB and I was like the first guy to take it from that station in a LONG time. I was the one to tell them that the Army just cut down the MOSes that qualify for enlistment bonuses down to 6 from over 100. And now, getting me in front of a contract to sign has been like pulling teeth (and it still hasn't happened). But it's something I've gotten over, since I'm pretty sure that's just how things work in this system - keep your head on a swivel and pay attention to the things with your name attached.
Well, there's a few things that you have to understand:
The Army is in drawdown mode, and they're really upping the standards for who stays and who goes. This is apparently making your entry into the Army even more difficult, as they are looking not just for people who can check all the blocks and do things to the standard anymore... there will be open competition in education, physical fitness, and job competence. The commander of your unit now has the say-so on whether or not you can re-enlist, something that is new to quite a few people.
Basically, the whole military is tightening their belts and getting back down to what it should be: Carefully selected people who can do the fuckin' thang. There's a sea of deadweight soldiers, toxic untrained shitbag NCO's, broken people, and incompetent officers currently dragging down the entire organization. People need to be separated, given their disability, or retrained until it hurts.
You're basically walking into what's going to be a pretty competitive, nasty free-for-all on who gets to serve and who gets the boot. Prepare accordingly, and keep that PT up, son. You can suck at your job all day, but if you can run a 12 minute 2 mile you are golden.
AManFromEarthLet's get to twerk!The King in the SwampRegistered Userregular
How useful would it be to look into doing Guard or Reserve duty as an officer right now? Or will most of those spots be taken up by people getting pushed around during the draw down?
It's always useful to look into it. As far as I know, and I know very little, a large number of reserve officer positions are reserved for ROTC.
It can't hurt to have a chat with the local reserve recruiter.
Everyday I wake up is the worst day of my life.
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AManFromEarthLet's get to twerk!The King in the SwampRegistered Userregular
That's what I figured. I mean, it won't be for a while since I'm living overseas for my master's right now and I need to drop a considerable amount of weight before anyone will take me seriously so the situation could be completely different by then.
As far as the Reserves and Guard go, if you wanted to go through OCS you'd probably.y have a much better shot at being accepted, especially as far as the Guard goes.
There is a significant shortage of officers in the non-Active duty parts of the Army simply because there isn't a lot of people clamoring for the job. If you found a unit, and they needed a 2LT-CPT slot to fill, then went to a recruiter with the name of that unit's commander, you could probably get accepted for a commission with an initial assignment to that unit.
For ROTC, when cadets get ranked nationally to compete for their branch assignments, they are also competing for Active service. Like I mentioned earlier, only so many slots available on Active duty and excess get shunted to the Guards and Reserves. This isn't to say that the lowest ranked all go non-Active, they actually have certain blocks throughout selected for this and it can be total luck of the draw if you score a smidge too high or too low. The alternative is, if you as a commissioning cadet have a unit commander in the Guard/Reserves willing to take you, you automatically get that branch and assignment, no competition necessary. The same goes for OCS, especially since OCS Guard training is all paid for by the State and not Federal. Can't have Missouri pay for someone to commission and then big Army goes "And YOU are being assigned to Idaho!"
As far as the drawdown goes, I expect the biggest cuts to come from the Active service. There is the likelihood that Guard/Reserves may actually INCREASE because they are so much cheaper to maintain in a non-wartime status. The thing to remember is that Guard is strictly state by state, Reserves is federal and can travel with you if you move around for a career. They also do not have the same types of units. reserves is mostly support and logistical assets, while Guard is almost entirely "trigger-pullers" ie Infantry, Artillery, Armor, Aviation, with some logistical assets. Slots will be there, just expect the already slower promotion/training rate to get even slower.
AManFromEarthLet's get to twerk!The King in the SwampRegistered Userregular
Yeah, I did ROTC for a bit in undergrad, but the unit was shit and it was hurting my classwork having to drive down to Tampa 4+ days a week. I'm not looking to make General, obviously, but I'd still like to do some amount of service and I feel like Guard/Reserve would be a good way to do that.
Thanks for the info, I'll definitely sniff around and see what I can find out!
I got that E.A.D. date - it's just a placeholder that says a year after graduation. I hope that changes. I refuse to marry or even date until I have a career.
Well, my PCS leave is almost over. It's a good thing, been blowing all kinds of money on crap I don't really need.
The wife and I will be driving from my family in Iowa to Monterey, California on Saturday. I think it's going to blow, because my wife is 6 months pregnant. So, I will be stopping every 2 hours so she can get out and move around. Fun, fun.
Anyone still at DLI and want to meet up for some beers? I think we are going to be stuck in the hotel there for a month waiting for a house to open up.
" I am a warrior, so that my son may be a merchant, so that his son may be a poet.”
― John Quincy Adams
Got my EA! Going to Maxwell for Field Training this summer.
This just got real.
Have fun, it's gonna be hot as balls.
In the midst of limited Field Training slots, 38 out of 43 students at my det got selected to go to Field Training. I feel terrible for those five, but this is a goodamn miracle.
Maxwell AFB Alabama and CJFTC, Mississippi. I finally found somewhere hotter than Florida.
Got my EA! Going to Maxwell for Field Training this summer.
This just got real.
Have fun, it's gonna be hot as balls.
In the midst of limited Field Training slots, 38 out of 43 students at my det got selected to go to Field Training. I feel terrible for those five, but this is a goodamn miracle.
Having spent the summer in Kuwait, I've gotta say Louisiana is the hottest place I've ever been after sundown, but under the mid-day sun, the desert is like nothing most people have ever experienced.
Having spent the summer in Kuwait, I've gotta say Louisiana is the hottest place I've ever been after sundown, but under the mid-day sun, the desert is like nothing most people have ever experienced.
Absolutely. Even the summer weather in California and Georgia doesn't compare to the heat and humidity in Louisiana. Personally, I'd prefer summer in Kuwait or Iraq over summer in Louisiana. With dry heat your sweat will at least keep you cool and you won't be subject to the tortuous prickly heat.
It's only like... 100-105 on most hot days, but then it's still 90-95 at night. Whereas the desert is 120-130 on a hot day, and 80-90 at night.
It's cuh-ray-zee.
Everyday I wake up is the worst day of my life.
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spookymuffin( ° ʖ ° )Puyallup WA Registered Userregular
I'll take dry heat all day over humidity. Going from Arizona to Arkansas was a shocker, dipping like 20 degrees and gaining a ton of humidity wasn't easy to get used to. 110 degree dry heat in the shade? No problem. 90 with humidity out the ass? No thank you.
PSN: MegaSpooky // 3DS: 3797-6276-7138 Wii U NNID: MegaSpooky
Got my EA! Going to Maxwell for Field Training this summer.
This just got real.
Enjoy the Paperclip.
The track? Man that's a weird 1.5 miles. Its like alien geometry, and it ruins all ability to pace.
With a placeholder EAD date one year after graduation I have the task of finding full time employment while I wait to serve america.
Work at McDonalds and continue to serve America.
Hmm, Amazon just called me for a phone interview. But if McDonalds is more patriotic....
Aren't they required to pay you at some point if your date is really far off or is thay only in certain cases?
The whole point of not going into duty right away is to NOT pay them, sadly.
Whose fault is this, this time? Or shall I go with "lol Congress"... It used to be that only the pilots and other rated slots had to wait. Now everybody has to wait up to a year until told otherwise.
And what do I tell (and not tell) the potential full time employers I'll be seeking in May about "other commitments."
Got my EA! Going to Maxwell for Field Training this summer.
This just got real.
Enjoy the Paperclip.
The track? Man that's a weird 1.5 miles. Its like alien geometry, and it ruins all ability to pace.
With a placeholder EAD date one year after graduation I have the task of finding full time employment while I wait to serve america.
Work at McDonalds and continue to serve America.
Hmm, Amazon just called me for a phone interview. But if McDonalds is more patriotic....
Aren't they required to pay you at some point if your date is really far off or is thay only in certain cases?
The whole point of not going into duty right away is to NOT pay them, sadly.
Whose fault is this, this time? Or shall I go with "lol Congress"... It used to be that only the pilots and other rated slots had to wait. Now everybody has to wait up to a year until told otherwise.
And what do I tell (and not tell) the potential full time employers I'll be seeking in May about "other commitments."
I'm really not sure. That's a tough spot to be in. Plus, if you do land an internship in your field of some kind you're just taking a slot someone who might need the experience could get. It's not a good situation to be in. You could try calling your base (or one nearby) and see if they have any seasonal help requirements. A friend of mine got a job as her future commanders secretary or overhire or something for the summer before she commissioned.
The pilot thing was (so I am told) mostly due to the fact that some ridiculous percentage of people graduate in may/june time frame, but you can't just run pilot schools in may or june, it needs to be year round. Hence the waiting for your date.
And before they started doing THAT, you had "casual status" where they'd send new 'future pilots' out to be section commanders or aides and such while they waited for their training date.
It's an insane system run by people who don't know how money works. *shrug*
Ooohhhh this is a shit situation. I'm asking the officers for their advice.
Haha that's when you know it's a shit situation. Speaking of shit situations, it turns out that the guy responsible for this shit in Afghanistan was in my old company when everything went down. Not good.
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spookymuffin( ° ʖ ° )Puyallup WA Registered Userregular
edited March 2012
My favorite thing about the military: One person shits themselves, and we all have to wear diapers. Can someone explain to me how the thinking that, if one person fucks up, the whole section/flight/squadron pays for it, works? I've never understood this.
spookymuffin on
PSN: MegaSpooky // 3DS: 3797-6276-7138 Wii U NNID: MegaSpooky
My favorite thing about the military: One person shits themselves, and we all have to wear diapers. Can someone explain to me how the thinking that, if one person fucks up, the whole section/flight/squadron pays for it, works? I've never understood this.
My favorite thing about the military: One person shits themselves, and we all have to wear diapers. Can someone explain to me how the thinking that, if one person fucks up, the whole section/flight/squadron pays for it, works? I've never understood this.
My university has one of the good career services institutions, so I'm using it to send people my gorgeous resume.
A career service program in a university is susceptible to pairing up students with scumbags no different from plucking a flyer off the wall, but my school's program has never steered me wrong. I warn everybody to go there, as opposed to a flyer off the wall.
My favorite thing about the military: One person shits themselves, and we all have to wear diapers. Can someone explain to me how the thinking that, if one person fucks up, the whole section/flight/squadron pays for it, works? I've never understood this.
Posts
Again, my recruiters may be full of shit, but over the past few months as I've assembled everything I needed, they went from pretty excited and confident about my chances to telling me that there are just way too many applicants in my area, many of them high-quality, and that the selection boards are getting extremely competitive - and even then if you're recommended you're not guaranteed anything. The only thing I can really improve at this point is my PT score - meanwhile I'm still unemployed in a dead town with no work and can't afford to get away. I was the one who suggested to them (after researching everything) enlisting in 35w and then possibly going green-to-gold from there.
Don't get me wrong, I'm joining for more than financial reasons, its just that I can't afford to wait around any longer for longshot odds.
At the very least, don't go in without the job you want in writing as your designated field.
I guess my confusion stems from how "up in the air" your application process seems to be. For example, if you wish to join the CF, you goto a recruitment center and discuss with the recruitment staff your various options for joining. Naturally, they have certain jobs they need more than others, so they will try to direct you to certain careers. After that, you do your CFAT, interview and application, wait for a review board response and then choose whether to accept your contract or not.
By comparison, our system seems much more streamlined, and I think that is what causes me to view your's as convoluted. However, I do realize the US military operates differently (divides between the different "elements" are more formal, etc.) and on a much larger scale.
Well, there's a few things that you have to understand:
The Army is in drawdown mode, and they're really upping the standards for who stays and who goes. This is apparently making your entry into the Army even more difficult, as they are looking not just for people who can check all the blocks and do things to the standard anymore... there will be open competition in education, physical fitness, and job competence. The commander of your unit now has the say-so on whether or not you can re-enlist, something that is new to quite a few people.
Basically, the whole military is tightening their belts and getting back down to what it should be: Carefully selected people who can do the fuckin' thang. There's a sea of deadweight soldiers, toxic untrained shitbag NCO's, broken people, and incompetent officers currently dragging down the entire organization. People need to be separated, given their disability, or retrained until it hurts.
You're basically walking into what's going to be a pretty competitive, nasty free-for-all on who gets to serve and who gets the boot. Prepare accordingly, and keep that PT up, son. You can suck at your job all day, but if you can run a 12 minute 2 mile you are golden.
Well excuseeeeee me.
It can't hurt to have a chat with the local reserve recruiter.
There is a significant shortage of officers in the non-Active duty parts of the Army simply because there isn't a lot of people clamoring for the job. If you found a unit, and they needed a 2LT-CPT slot to fill, then went to a recruiter with the name of that unit's commander, you could probably get accepted for a commission with an initial assignment to that unit.
For ROTC, when cadets get ranked nationally to compete for their branch assignments, they are also competing for Active service. Like I mentioned earlier, only so many slots available on Active duty and excess get shunted to the Guards and Reserves. This isn't to say that the lowest ranked all go non-Active, they actually have certain blocks throughout selected for this and it can be total luck of the draw if you score a smidge too high or too low. The alternative is, if you as a commissioning cadet have a unit commander in the Guard/Reserves willing to take you, you automatically get that branch and assignment, no competition necessary. The same goes for OCS, especially since OCS Guard training is all paid for by the State and not Federal. Can't have Missouri pay for someone to commission and then big Army goes "And YOU are being assigned to Idaho!"
As far as the drawdown goes, I expect the biggest cuts to come from the Active service. There is the likelihood that Guard/Reserves may actually INCREASE because they are so much cheaper to maintain in a non-wartime status. The thing to remember is that Guard is strictly state by state, Reserves is federal and can travel with you if you move around for a career. They also do not have the same types of units. reserves is mostly support and logistical assets, while Guard is almost entirely "trigger-pullers" ie Infantry, Artillery, Armor, Aviation, with some logistical assets. Slots will be there, just expect the already slower promotion/training rate to get even slower.
Thanks for the info, I'll definitely sniff around and see what I can find out!
The wife and I will be driving from my family in Iowa to Monterey, California on Saturday. I think it's going to blow, because my wife is 6 months pregnant. So, I will be stopping every 2 hours so she can get out and move around. Fun, fun.
Anyone still at DLI and want to meet up for some beers? I think we are going to be stuck in the hotel there for a month waiting for a house to open up.
― John Quincy Adams
This just got real.
Congrats. Field Training was the most fun I never want to have again. Just remember its all a big game. Play hard!
Have fun, it's gonna be hot as balls.
In the midst of limited Field Training slots, 38 out of 43 students at my det got selected to go to Field Training. I feel terrible for those five, but this is a goodamn miracle.
Maxwell AFB Alabama and CJFTC, Mississippi. I finally found somewhere hotter than Florida.
Wow that sucks. Times have changed.
Enjoy the Paperclip.
Let 'em eat fucking pineapples!
Absolutely. Even the summer weather in California and Georgia doesn't compare to the heat and humidity in Louisiana. Personally, I'd prefer summer in Kuwait or Iraq over summer in Louisiana. With dry heat your sweat will at least keep you cool and you won't be subject to the tortuous prickly heat.
It's cuh-ray-zee.
Wii U NNID: MegaSpooky
The track? Man that's a weird 1.5 miles. Its like alien geometry, and it ruins all ability to pace.
With a placeholder EAD date one year after graduation I have the task of finding full time employment while I wait to serve america.
Work at McDonalds and continue to serve America.
Hmm, Amazon just called me for a phone interview. But if McDonalds is more patriotic....
Aren't they required to pay you at some point if your date is really far off or is thay only in certain cases?
The whole point of not going into duty right away is to NOT pay them, sadly.
Whose fault is this, this time? Or shall I go with "lol Congress"..
Whose fault is this, this time? Or shall I go with "lol Congress"... It used to be that only the pilots and other rated slots had to wait. Now everybody has to wait up to a year until told otherwise.
And what do I tell (and not tell) the potential full time employers I'll be seeking in May about "other commitments."
I'm really not sure. That's a tough spot to be in. Plus, if you do land an internship in your field of some kind you're just taking a slot someone who might need the experience could get. It's not a good situation to be in. You could try calling your base (or one nearby) and see if they have any seasonal help requirements. A friend of mine got a job as her future commanders secretary or overhire or something for the summer before she commissioned.
The pilot thing was (so I am told) mostly due to the fact that some ridiculous percentage of people graduate in may/june time frame, but you can't just run pilot schools in may or june, it needs to be year round. Hence the waiting for your date.
And before they started doing THAT, you had "casual status" where they'd send new 'future pilots' out to be section commanders or aides and such while they waited for their training date.
It's an insane system run by people who don't know how money works. *shrug*
Yup.
Haha that's when you know it's a shit situation. Speaking of shit situations, it turns out that the guy responsible for this shit in Afghanistan was in my old company when everything went down. Not good.
Wii U NNID: MegaSpooky
You need to watch this. It's titled "A Captain's Life" and is NSFW: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhB_KpHAEqU
Reactive leadership instead of proactive.
A career service program in a university is susceptible to pairing up students with scumbags no different from plucking a flyer off the wall, but my school's program has never steered me wrong. I warn everybody to go there, as opposed to a flyer off the wall.
ugh *facepalm* makes me hate life sometimes