If it makes you feel any better Orca, (and if I am not confusing other posts with yours) I can agree with your position, and still think that failed execution of the ending is a Very Bad Thing. As in it should not have happened this way. This is not good speculation, this is the very bad I feel like I got fucked over thing.
The analogy I have been using for this whole fiasco boils down to this. I had 3 batches of grapes. The first 2 were pretty damn good with the occasional sour one in the mix. On my 3rd batch all the grapes have been the best grapes I have had in years, but my last 3 grapes end up being the sourest, most bitter grapes I have ever had. It does not make the grapes beforehand any less delicious. It just means that my last experience was by far the worst and that means im not buying any grapes for a long time because of that memory.
Unless those last 3 grapes gave you salmonella, I just don't see this point of view at all.
And the ending didn't do that.
Which is why I'm a proud member of the few, the proud, the Bad Opinion Brigade. REPRESENT.
Thats because its psychological (perhaps physiological?) you cold unfeeling monster.
Seriously though, have you never been hurt in an argument and not talked to that person for some amount of time? Im not saying people don't get over it or move on. Im saying that its hard wired into people to avoid things that have made a negative impact on them.
The precieved terribleness of the ending marks the last thing most people are going to see with the game. Negative emotions severely outrank good emotions for a damn good evolutionary reason, to keep you from getting killed or sick or any number of terrible things. This memory of terrible things translates badly to things like games because it will never be actual life or death but the evolutionary machinery is still built in. Hence because of a few bad grapes you avoid all grapes for some time.
Except we are humans, and have the cognitive capacity to say "I am not going to let my bad feelings about the last five minutes of the game override the thirty hours of joy I got from it previously". We have conscious, and can actively override the "evolution machinery" in our head, unless we are in pure fight or flight mode...which the ending of a game generally doesn't cause.
I would never argue that we can not overcome our limitations. I know full damn well that in about 2-3 months ill stop giving a shit at all about this game. That being said this bias in our evolution should not just be straight out dismissed. Its there, the root of everything good and bad about all of our lives and to belittle it is a failure to understand it. Emotions are not easy to turn on and off. If they were we would not be having these unending discussions about why the ending failed us individually when the rest of the game was so damn good.
Blood Drive on
0
Options
GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
I'll actually be happy with a clarifying dlc, the ending will still be bad, but as long as we end with more answers than questions (and the question's we're left with are more along the line of "what does X mean" and not "how does X make sense") I will be satisfied, and if they pull an ME2 and throw in some variation based on who/what we brought to bear at the end that would be fantastic. I'd actually want to do another playthrough
This is the best hope at this point. I agree with the Extra Credits guy, I actually don't want them to change the ending. Good, or bad (and it's bad), it is what it is...this is the game BioWare released...but a DLC that answers some questions, and gives some closure, will be cathartic.
I also hope that BioWare has learned a lesson about trying to develop their flagship single player franchise while also trying to develop a hundred million dollar MMO, and how that can bleed over and cause time and budgetary constraints for one or the other.
Yeah. I think my subsequent annoyance is really about feeling that Bioware could have done so much better, that they're better than this. Maybe I should just accept that no, they really aren't, and move on.
But they've shown us that they are much, much better than this. The Suicide Mission finale to ME2 is as close to perfection as any videogame has ever achieved. So what the heck happened between that and the ending of ME3 ? What part of their writing/development process broke down, and can they fix it while producing an alternate, better ending ?
Do you remember the screaming about the T-800? I was ok with the T-800, but Jesus fucking Christ people.
The screaming was drowned out by the all the perfection. Listen, I loved ME2 and the Suicide Mission so much that I spent the next four months replaying the game over and over and over. The ending in ME3 disgusted me so strongly that I still can't bring myself to start a new game, even as a Vanguard.
Read that last sentence again.
Assuming I'm not the only ME3 purchaser who feels this way, this is a serious problem for Bioware.
And that is what I like about these games. Very different opinions on things. For me I thought the ME2 "ending" was just so contrived. Really? A human reaper? Really? But it didn't really bother me in the end as I had enjoyed the rest of the game that I still did another play through. AND a third "faithful to Liara" playthrough before ME3 came out. I too thought the end of ME3 was odd and jarring, but Tuchanka and Rannoch were just so amazing that there's nothing short of coming to my house and a square kick to the nuts that bioware could have done to ruin those moments.
Badassfully: See, I don't find the "human reaper" contrived in the least, I thought it made perfect sense. The Reapers were already all about turning a race against themselves (Husks and Collectors are both bastardized versions of their original race... quite the psychological tactic), so it only made sense they'd create something super-unsettling. Not to mention, it showed us what they're doing with their "reaping", and it's reproduction. You have an enemy that's slaughtering people by the millions just so they can make one more of themselves, and that's just unsettling.
Not to mention it just made for a good boss fight...
Badassfully:
Also, after we killed it and the platforms all start collapsing, who was it that slid off and I had to save? Tali? Nope, she held on... freakin' Grunt slid off, so Shepherd had to grab him and yanked his incredibly heavy ass back up onto the platform with a single arm. I liked learning that my Shepherd is so ridiculously jacked that he can lift a Krogan with a single arm.
If it makes you feel any better Orca, (and if I am not confusing other posts with yours) I can agree with your position, and still think that failed execution of the ending is a Very Bad Thing. As in it should not have happened this way. This is not good speculation, this is the very bad I feel like I got fucked over thing.
The analogy I have been using for this whole fiasco boils down to this. I had 3 batches of grapes. The first 2 were pretty damn good with the occasional sour one in the mix. On my 3rd batch all the grapes have been the best grapes I have had in years, but my last 3 grapes end up being the sourest, most bitter grapes I have ever had. It does not make the grapes beforehand any less delicious. It just means that my last experience was by far the worst and that means im not buying any grapes for a long time because of that memory.
Unless those last 3 grapes gave you salmonella, I just don't see this point of view at all.
And the ending didn't do that.
Which is why I'm a proud member of the few, the proud, the Bad Opinion Brigade. REPRESENT.
Thats because its psychological (perhaps physiological?) you cold unfeeling monster.
Seriously though, have you never been hurt in an argument and not talked to that person for some amount of time? Im not saying people don't get over it or move on. Im saying that its hard wired into people to avoid things that have made a negative impact on them.
The precieved terribleness of the ending marks the last thing most people are going to see with the game. Negative emotions severely outrank good emotions for a damn good evolutionary reason, to keep you from getting killed or sick or any number of terrible things. This memory of terrible things translates badly to things like games because it will never be actual life or death but the evolutionary machinery is still built in. Hence because of a few bad grapes you avoid all grapes for some time.
Except we are humans, and have the cognitive capacity to say "I am not going to let my bad feelings about the last five minutes of the game override the thirty hours of joy I got from it previously". We have conscious, and can actively override the "evolution machinery" in our head, unless we are in pure fight or flight mode...which the ending of a game generally doesn't cause.
You're inserting an emotional obligation where none exists.
I am obligated to overlook my mother's flaws so I can have a relationship with her. I am obligated to deal with unpleasant people at work.
I am not obligated to train myself to tolerate ME3's ending and I cannot force myself to suddenly enjoy the rest of the game. It's pretty much lost emotional resonance from me and I have absolutely no desire to play anything created by Bioware anymore. The onus is on Bioware to change my mind or not, it is not on me.
override367 on
0
Options
GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
If it makes you feel any better Orca, (and if I am not confusing other posts with yours) I can agree with your position, and still think that failed execution of the ending is a Very Bad Thing. As in it should not have happened this way. This is not good speculation, this is the very bad I feel like I got fucked over thing.
The analogy I have been using for this whole fiasco boils down to this. I had 3 batches of grapes. The first 2 were pretty damn good with the occasional sour one in the mix. On my 3rd batch all the grapes have been the best grapes I have had in years, but my last 3 grapes end up being the sourest, most bitter grapes I have ever had. It does not make the grapes beforehand any less delicious. It just means that my last experience was by far the worst and that means im not buying any grapes for a long time because of that memory.
Unless those last 3 grapes gave you salmonella, I just don't see this point of view at all.
And the ending didn't do that.
Which is why I'm a proud member of the few, the proud, the Bad Opinion Brigade. REPRESENT.
Thats because its psychological (perhaps physiological?) you cold unfeeling monster.
Seriously though, have you never been hurt in an argument and not talked to that person for some amount of time? Im not saying people don't get over it or move on. Im saying that its hard wired into people to avoid things that have made a negative impact on them.
The precieved terribleness of the ending marks the last thing most people are going to see with the game. Negative emotions severely outrank good emotions for a damn good evolutionary reason, to keep you from getting killed or sick or any number of terrible things. This memory of terrible things translates badly to things like games because it will never be actual life or death but the evolutionary machinery is still built in. Hence because of a few bad grapes you avoid all grapes for some time.
Except we are humans, and have the cognitive capacity to say "I am not going to let my bad feelings about the last five minutes of the game override the thirty hours of joy I got from it previously". We have conscious, and can actively override the "evolution machinery" in our head, unless we are in pure fight or flight mode...which the ending of a game generally doesn't cause.
You're inserting an emotional obligation where none exists.
I am obligated to overlook my mother's flaws so I can have a relationship with her.
I am not obligated to overlook flaws in a video game.
You're not obligated to do the first one either, you choose to because you want a relationship with your mother. I want a relationship with Mass Effect, I am choosing to ignore the wart on it's left butt cheek, because the rest of it us supple and gorgeous.
FairchildRabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?"Registered Userregular
edited March 2012
Ed Driscoll is a very thoughtful guy, and this gets to the root of the problem with the ending of ME3. Lack of catharsis. The entire series of games is about the triumph of Good over Evil. So why run away from that in the ultimate conclusion ?
Be warned that he's a political commentator and he gets political at the end, but it's worth reading all the way through and watching the Bill Whittle video at the bottom.
You're not obligated to do the first one either, you choose to because you want a relationship with your mother. I want a relationship with Mass Effect, I am choosing to ignore the wart on it's left butt cheek, because the rest of it us supple and gorgeous.
I think one of the reasons why people were so upset about the ending was because they were willing to ignore a lot of the other problems and plot holes since they were expecting an ending that would compensate for that.
People were willing to ignore the stupidity of having the game begin following the stupid Arrival DLC. They were willing to ignore the pointlessness of the nonsensical Cerberus stuff. They were willing to ignore their clumsy attempt to push Kai Leng on us as some kind of badass villain that we're supposed to be afraid of. They were willing to ignore the idiocy of the Reapers.
They were willing to ignore the fact that the main plot of ME2 was unnecessary. They were willing to ignore the huge plot hole in the final battle where the Reapers took over the Citadel and brought it to earth.
All because they were expecting an ending that would make up for all those problems.
"What do you need me to do?" Shep walks to the control console and falls dead over it, game cuts to the battle, and you see your war assests at work. If you have enough, the reapers are destroyed, or fought back, if you do not then the cycle completes and cut to the next cycles races stumbling across the citadel
0
Options
GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
You're not obligated to do the first one either, you choose to because you want a relationship with your mother. I want a relationship with Mass Effect, I am choosing to ignore the wart on it's left butt cheek, because the rest of it us supple and gorgeous.
DAT CODEX
I'm not sure how you pulled that off, but CarbonFire didn't write that...I did....wonder why Vanilla attributed the quote to Carbon.
If it makes you feel any better Orca, (and if I am not confusing other posts with yours) I can agree with your position, and still think that failed execution of the ending is a Very Bad Thing. As in it should not have happened this way. This is not good speculation, this is the very bad I feel like I got fucked over thing.
The analogy I have been using for this whole fiasco boils down to this. I had 3 batches of grapes. The first 2 were pretty damn good with the occasional sour one in the mix. On my 3rd batch all the grapes have been the best grapes I have had in years, but my last 3 grapes end up being the sourest, most bitter grapes I have ever had. It does not make the grapes beforehand any less delicious. It just means that my last experience was by far the worst and that means im not buying any grapes for a long time because of that memory.
Unless those last 3 grapes gave you salmonella, I just don't see this point of view at all.
And the ending didn't do that.
Which is why I'm a proud member of the few, the proud, the Bad Opinion Brigade. REPRESENT.
Thats because its psychological (perhaps physiological?) you cold unfeeling monster.
Seriously though, have you never been hurt in an argument and not talked to that person for some amount of time? Im not saying people don't get over it or move on. Im saying that its hard wired into people to avoid things that have made a negative impact on them.
The precieved terribleness of the ending marks the last thing most people are going to see with the game. Negative emotions severely outrank good emotions for a damn good evolutionary reason, to keep you from getting killed or sick or any number of terrible things. This memory of terrible things translates badly to things like games because it will never be actual life or death but the evolutionary machinery is still built in. Hence because of a few bad grapes you avoid all grapes for some time.
Except we are humans, and have the cognitive capacity to say "I am not going to let my bad feelings about the last five minutes of the game override the thirty hours of joy I got from it previously". We have conscious, and can actively override the "evolution machinery" in our head, unless we are in pure fight or flight mode...which the ending of a game generally doesn't cause.
You're inserting an emotional obligation where none exists.
I am obligated to overlook my mother's flaws so I can have a relationship with her.
I am not obligated to overlook flaws in a video game.
You're not obligated to do the first one either, you choose to because you want a relationship with your mother. I want a relationship with Mass Effect, I am choosing to ignore the wart on it's left butt cheek, because the rest of it us supple and gorgeous.
Oh dear, I think I'm a bit more obligated to tolerate my mother's flaws than I am to tolerate Mass Effect's flaws, so we'll just agree to disagree.
override367 on
0
Options
GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
I think one of the reasons why people were so upset about the ending was because they were willing to ignore a lot of the other problems and plot holes since they were expecting an ending that would compensate for that.
People were willing to ignore the stupidity of having the game begin following the stupid Arrival DLC. They were willing to ignore the pointlessness of the nonsensical Cerberus stuff. They were willing to ignore their clumsy attempt to push Kai Leng on us as some kind of badass villain that we're supposed to be afraid of. They were willing to ignore the idiocy of the Reapers.
They were willing to ignore the fact that the main plot of ME2 was unnecessary. They were willing to ignore the huge plot hole in the final battle where the Reapers took over the Citadel and brought it to earth.
All because they were expecting an ending that would make up for all those problems.
So people who hated everything made Mass Effect, Mass Effect, were willing to overlook all that because the ending might make up for a series they obviously didn't like anything about? Wut?
If it makes you feel any better Orca, (and if I am not confusing other posts with yours) I can agree with your position, and still think that failed execution of the ending is a Very Bad Thing. As in it should not have happened this way. This is not good speculation, this is the very bad I feel like I got fucked over thing.
The analogy I have been using for this whole fiasco boils down to this. I had 3 batches of grapes. The first 2 were pretty damn good with the occasional sour one in the mix. On my 3rd batch all the grapes have been the best grapes I have had in years, but my last 3 grapes end up being the sourest, most bitter grapes I have ever had. It does not make the grapes beforehand any less delicious. It just means that my last experience was by far the worst and that means im not buying any grapes for a long time because of that memory.
Unless those last 3 grapes gave you salmonella, I just don't see this point of view at all.
And the ending didn't do that.
Which is why I'm a proud member of the few, the proud, the Bad Opinion Brigade. REPRESENT.
Thats because its psychological (perhaps physiological?) you cold unfeeling monster.
Seriously though, have you never been hurt in an argument and not talked to that person for some amount of time? Im not saying people don't get over it or move on. Im saying that its hard wired into people to avoid things that have made a negative impact on them.
The precieved terribleness of the ending marks the last thing most people are going to see with the game. Negative emotions severely outrank good emotions for a damn good evolutionary reason, to keep you from getting killed or sick or any number of terrible things. This memory of terrible things translates badly to things like games because it will never be actual life or death but the evolutionary machinery is still built in. Hence because of a few bad grapes you avoid all grapes for some time.
Except we are humans, and have the cognitive capacity to say "I am not going to let my bad feelings about the last five minutes of the game override the thirty hours of joy I got from it previously". We have conscious, and can actively override the "evolution machinery" in our head, unless we are in pure fight or flight mode...which the ending of a game generally doesn't cause.
You're inserting an emotional obligation where none exists.
I am obligated to overlook my mother's flaws so I can have a relationship with her.
I am not obligated to overlook flaws in a video game.
You're not obligated to do the first one either, you choose to because you want a relationship with your mother. I want a relationship with Mass Effect, I am choosing to ignore the wart on it's left butt cheek, because the rest of it us supple and gorgeous.
Oh dear, I think I'm a bit more obligated to tolerate my mother's flaws than I am to tolerate Mass Effect's flaws, so we'll just agree to disagree.
As someone who has chosen to mostly not have a relationship with his mother, I will admit my position on this is probably skewed.
So random question. Just recently started my first playthrough of Mass Effect 1 as a male (never played mass effect 2 or 3 yet) and have decided to romance Liara. I was just curious who everyone romanced throughout ME 1,2, and 3 and if you regretted the choice or would keep the same choice and why. Thanks
I think one of the reasons why people were so upset about the ending was because they were willing to ignore a lot of the other problems and plot holes since they were expecting an ending that would compensate for that.
People were willing to ignore the stupidity of having the game begin following the stupid Arrival DLC. They were willing to ignore the pointlessness of the nonsensical Cerberus stuff. They were willing to ignore their clumsy attempt to push Kai Leng on us as some kind of badass villain that we're supposed to be afraid of. They were willing to ignore the idiocy of the Reapers.
They were willing to ignore the fact that the main plot of ME2 was unnecessary. They were willing to ignore the huge plot hole in the final battle where the Reapers took over the Citadel and brought it to earth.
All because they were expecting an ending that would make up for all those problems.
Can't speak for everyone, but I didn't consider most of those problems. Arrival was great. Cerberus was... well, they've never exactly been the good guys. Kai Leng (and for that matter Vega) was a new character to me. I think the Reaper component is telling but not quite spot on:
The Reapers started off as the good kind of mysterious: they have some goals, but we don't know what they are. They ended up as the bad kind of mysterious: nobody knows what the goal is, certainly not the writers. The ending just came out of left field. I would have been perfectly happy with a safe ending, because the rest of the game was awesome.
0
Options
ThegreatcowLord of All BaconsWashington State - It's Wet up here innit? Registered Userregular
You're not obligated to do the first one either, you choose to because you want a relationship with your mother. I want a relationship with Mass Effect, I am choosing to ignore the wart on it's left butt cheek, because the rest of it us supple and gorgeous.
DAT CODEX
Damn my lack of image posting ability from my iPhone!
If it makes you feel any better Orca, (and if I am not confusing other posts with yours) I can agree with your position, and still think that failed execution of the ending is a Very Bad Thing. As in it should not have happened this way. This is not good speculation, this is the very bad I feel like I got fucked over thing.
The analogy I have been using for this whole fiasco boils down to this. I had 3 batches of grapes. The first 2 were pretty damn good with the occasional sour one in the mix. On my 3rd batch all the grapes have been the best grapes I have had in years, but my last 3 grapes end up being the sourest, most bitter grapes I have ever had. It does not make the grapes beforehand any less delicious. It just means that my last experience was by far the worst and that means im not buying any grapes for a long time because of that memory.
Unless those last 3 grapes gave you salmonella, I just don't see this point of view at all.
And the ending didn't do that.
Which is why I'm a proud member of the few, the proud, the Bad Opinion Brigade. REPRESENT.
Thats because its psychological (perhaps physiological?) you cold unfeeling monster.
Seriously though, have you never been hurt in an argument and not talked to that person for some amount of time? Im not saying people don't get over it or move on. Im saying that its hard wired into people to avoid things that have made a negative impact on them.
The precieved terribleness of the ending marks the last thing most people are going to see with the game. Negative emotions severely outrank good emotions for a damn good evolutionary reason, to keep you from getting killed or sick or any number of terrible things. This memory of terrible things translates badly to things like games because it will never be actual life or death but the evolutionary machinery is still built in. Hence because of a few bad grapes you avoid all grapes for some time.
Except we are humans, and have the cognitive capacity to say "I am not going to let my bad feelings about the last five minutes of the game override the thirty hours of joy I got from it previously". We have conscious, and can actively override the "evolution machinery" in our head, unless we are in pure fight or flight mode...which the ending of a game generally doesn't cause.
You're inserting an emotional obligation where none exists.
I am obligated to overlook my mother's flaws so I can have a relationship with her.
I am not obligated to overlook flaws in a video game.
You're not obligated to do the first one either, you choose to because you want a relationship with your mother. I want a relationship with Mass Effect, I am choosing to ignore the wart on it's left butt cheek, because the rest of it us supple and gorgeous.
Oh dear, I think I'm a bit more obligated to tolerate my mother's flaws than I am to tolerate Mass Effect's flaws, so we'll just agree to disagree.
As someone who has chosen to mostly not have a relationship with his mother, I will admit my position on this is probably skewed.
How about this then, I'm obligated to get dressed and seek a restroom when I need to go
Please don't tell me you walk around naked and just poop wherever
If it makes you feel any better Orca, (and if I am not confusing other posts with yours) I can agree with your position, and still think that failed execution of the ending is a Very Bad Thing. As in it should not have happened this way. This is not good speculation, this is the very bad I feel like I got fucked over thing.
The analogy I have been using for this whole fiasco boils down to this. I had 3 batches of grapes. The first 2 were pretty damn good with the occasional sour one in the mix. On my 3rd batch all the grapes have been the best grapes I have had in years, but my last 3 grapes end up being the sourest, most bitter grapes I have ever had. It does not make the grapes beforehand any less delicious. It just means that my last experience was by far the worst and that means im not buying any grapes for a long time because of that memory.
Unless those last 3 grapes gave you salmonella, I just don't see this point of view at all.
And the ending didn't do that.
Which is why I'm a proud member of the few, the proud, the Bad Opinion Brigade. REPRESENT.
Thats because its psychological (perhaps physiological?) you cold unfeeling monster.
Seriously though, have you never been hurt in an argument and not talked to that person for some amount of time? Im not saying people don't get over it or move on. Im saying that its hard wired into people to avoid things that have made a negative impact on them.
The precieved terribleness of the ending marks the last thing most people are going to see with the game. Negative emotions severely outrank good emotions for a damn good evolutionary reason, to keep you from getting killed or sick or any number of terrible things. This memory of terrible things translates badly to things like games because it will never be actual life or death but the evolutionary machinery is still built in. Hence because of a few bad grapes you avoid all grapes for some time.
Except we are humans, and have the cognitive capacity to say "I am not going to let my bad feelings about the last five minutes of the game override the thirty hours of joy I got from it previously". We have conscious, and can actively override the "evolution machinery" in our head, unless we are in pure fight or flight mode...which the ending of a game generally doesn't cause.
You're inserting an emotional obligation where none exists.
I am obligated to overlook my mother's flaws so I can have a relationship with her.
I am not obligated to overlook flaws in a video game.
You're not obligated to do the first one either, you choose to because you want a relationship with your mother. I want a relationship with Mass Effect, I am choosing to ignore the wart on it's left butt cheek, because the rest of it us supple and gorgeous.
Oh dear, I think I'm a bit more obligated to tolerate my mother's flaws than I am to tolerate Mass Effect's flaws, so we'll just agree to disagree.
As someone who has chosen to mostly not have a relationship with his mother, I will admit my position on this is probably skewed.
How about this then, I'm obligated to get dressed and seek a restroom when I need to go
Please don't tell me you walk around naked and just poop wherever
If it makes you feel any better Orca, (and if I am not confusing other posts with yours) I can agree with your position, and still think that failed execution of the ending is a Very Bad Thing. As in it should not have happened this way. This is not good speculation, this is the very bad I feel like I got fucked over thing.
The analogy I have been using for this whole fiasco boils down to this. I had 3 batches of grapes. The first 2 were pretty damn good with the occasional sour one in the mix. On my 3rd batch all the grapes have been the best grapes I have had in years, but my last 3 grapes end up being the sourest, most bitter grapes I have ever had. It does not make the grapes beforehand any less delicious. It just means that my last experience was by far the worst and that means im not buying any grapes for a long time because of that memory.
Unless those last 3 grapes gave you salmonella, I just don't see this point of view at all.
And the ending didn't do that.
Which is why I'm a proud member of the few, the proud, the Bad Opinion Brigade. REPRESENT.
Thats because its psychological (perhaps physiological?) you cold unfeeling monster.
Seriously though, have you never been hurt in an argument and not talked to that person for some amount of time? Im not saying people don't get over it or move on. Im saying that its hard wired into people to avoid things that have made a negative impact on them.
The precieved terribleness of the ending marks the last thing most people are going to see with the game. Negative emotions severely outrank good emotions for a damn good evolutionary reason, to keep you from getting killed or sick or any number of terrible things. This memory of terrible things translates badly to things like games because it will never be actual life or death but the evolutionary machinery is still built in. Hence because of a few bad grapes you avoid all grapes for some time.
Except we are humans, and have the cognitive capacity to say "I am not going to let my bad feelings about the last five minutes of the game override the thirty hours of joy I got from it previously". We have conscious, and can actively override the "evolution machinery" in our head, unless we are in pure fight or flight mode...which the ending of a game generally doesn't cause.
You're inserting an emotional obligation where none exists.
I am obligated to overlook my mother's flaws so I can have a relationship with her.
I am not obligated to overlook flaws in a video game.
You're not obligated to do the first one either, you choose to because you want a relationship with your mother. I want a relationship with Mass Effect, I am choosing to ignore the wart on it's left butt cheek, because the rest of it us supple and gorgeous.
Oh dear, I think I'm a bit more obligated to tolerate my mother's flaws than I am to tolerate Mass Effect's flaws, so we'll just agree to disagree.
As someone who has chosen to mostly not have a relationship with his mother, I will admit my position on this is probably skewed.
How about this then, I'm obligated to get dressed and seek a restroom when I need to go
Please don't tell me you walk around naked and just poop wherever
:winky:
But now your comparing bodily processes with overlooking faults in something to see the good of the greater whole. Unless you want to talk about overlooking the peanuts in my loaf, because the rest of it is good solid fecal matter? I...I'm not really sure where we are going with this.
If it makes you feel any better Orca, (and if I am not confusing other posts with yours) I can agree with your position, and still think that failed execution of the ending is a Very Bad Thing. As in it should not have happened this way. This is not good speculation, this is the very bad I feel like I got fucked over thing.
The analogy I have been using for this whole fiasco boils down to this. I had 3 batches of grapes. The first 2 were pretty damn good with the occasional sour one in the mix. On my 3rd batch all the grapes have been the best grapes I have had in years, but my last 3 grapes end up being the sourest, most bitter grapes I have ever had. It does not make the grapes beforehand any less delicious. It just means that my last experience was by far the worst and that means im not buying any grapes for a long time because of that memory.
Unless those last 3 grapes gave you salmonella, I just don't see this point of view at all.
And the ending didn't do that.
Which is why I'm a proud member of the few, the proud, the Bad Opinion Brigade. REPRESENT.
Thats because its psychological (perhaps physiological?) you cold unfeeling monster.
Seriously though, have you never been hurt in an argument and not talked to that person for some amount of time? Im not saying people don't get over it or move on. Im saying that its hard wired into people to avoid things that have made a negative impact on them.
The precieved terribleness of the ending marks the last thing most people are going to see with the game. Negative emotions severely outrank good emotions for a damn good evolutionary reason, to keep you from getting killed or sick or any number of terrible things. This memory of terrible things translates badly to things like games because it will never be actual life or death but the evolutionary machinery is still built in. Hence because of a few bad grapes you avoid all grapes for some time.
Except we are humans, and have the cognitive capacity to say "I am not going to let my bad feelings about the last five minutes of the game override the thirty hours of joy I got from it previously". We have conscious, and can actively override the "evolution machinery" in our head, unless we are in pure fight or flight mode...which the ending of a game generally doesn't cause.
You're inserting an emotional obligation where none exists.
I am obligated to overlook my mother's flaws so I can have a relationship with her.
I am not obligated to overlook flaws in a video game.
You're not obligated to do the first one either, you choose to because you want a relationship with your mother. I want a relationship with Mass Effect, I am choosing to ignore the wart on it's left butt cheek, because the rest of it us supple and gorgeous.
Oh dear, I think I'm a bit more obligated to tolerate my mother's flaws than I am to tolerate Mass Effect's flaws, so we'll just agree to disagree.
As someone who has chosen to mostly not have a relationship with his mother, I will admit my position on this is probably skewed.
How about this then, I'm obligated to get dressed and seek a restroom when I need to go
Please don't tell me you walk around naked and just poop wherever
:winky:
But now your comparing bodily processes with overlooking faults in something to see the good of the greater whole. Unless you want to talk about overlooking the peanuts in my loaf, because the rest of it is good solid fecal matter? I...I'm not really sure where we are going with this.
Christ man, I have no obligation to feel the same way as you about Mass Effect, let it go.
There's no need to be deliberately obtuse and declaring "well I CAN IGNORE THE ENDING so you all should" is kind of goosy
I think one of the reasons why people were so upset about the ending was because they were willing to ignore a lot of the other problems and plot holes since they were expecting an ending that would compensate for that.
People were willing to ignore the stupidity of having the game begin following the stupid Arrival DLC. They were willing to ignore the pointlessness of the nonsensical Cerberus stuff. They were willing to ignore their clumsy attempt to push Kai Leng on us as some kind of badass villain that we're supposed to be afraid of. They were willing to ignore the idiocy of the Reapers.
They were willing to ignore the fact that the main plot of ME2 was unnecessary. They were willing to ignore the huge plot hole in the final battle where the Reapers took over the Citadel and brought it to earth.
All because they were expecting an ending that would make up for all those problems.
Can't speak for everyone, but I didn't consider most of those problems. Arrival was great. Cerberus was... well, they've never exactly been the good guys. Kai Leng (and for that matter Vega) was a new character to me. I think the Reaper component is telling but not quite spot on:
The Reapers started off as the good kind of mysterious: they have some goals, but we don't know what they are. They ended up as the bad kind of mysterious: nobody knows what the goal is, certainly not the writers. The ending just came out of left field. I would have been perfectly happy with a safe ending, because the rest of the game was awesome.
I do consider it regrettable that BioWare has been tending to build important plot points in sequels around optional DLC in prequels.
Not to mention the DLC in ME3 actually being pretty important to a full appreciation of the story.
I made a game! Hotline Maui. Requires mouse and keyboard.
Mostly worthless patch actually. Like the buff on the Talon and Wraith though. A Krogan Sentinel with a Shotgun is still far away from being viable, but at least I got a good replacement for my Carnifex on my Winfiltrator now.
Mostly worthless patch actually. Like the buff on the Talon and Wraith though. A Krogan Sentinel with a Shotgun is still far away from being viable, but at least I got a good replacement for my Carnifex on my Winfiltrator now.
Mostly worthless patch actually. Like the buff on the Talon and Wraith though. A Krogan Sentinel with a Shotgun is still far away from being viable, but at least I got a good replacement for my Carnifex on my Winfiltrator now.
What?
Yes. What? A Krogan Sentinel with a Shotgun is like...apples and pie.
They're made for each other. In what possible way is it not viable, because my success rate with it would say otherwise.
Mostly worthless patch actually. Like the buff on the Talon and Wraith though. A Krogan Sentinel with a Shotgun is still far away from being viable, but at least I got a good replacement for my Carnifex on my Winfiltrator now.
What?
Well the only shotguns that do decent damage are the Wraith, Claymore and Spike Thrower. The Spike Throwers projectile are slower than an Elcor, you can only hit really slow moving targets with it and have no chance at anything else. The Claymore does really nice damage, but its range, reload speed and one-shottiness make it too slow. The Wraith is a bit better with its two shots but therefore needs two shots to kill and doesn't make much difference in the end.
I could try using a Scimitar or Katana, but they seem to be way weaker, which would mean more shots per kill resulting in the same problem.
Edit: Also, with all it's Health, shields and damage reductions, even the Krogan Sentinel doesn't last much longer on Gold which is the complete opposite of the Krogans main trait: Survivability under all circumstances. I'm not really feeling my quadruple organs here.
I think one of the reasons why people were so upset about the ending was because they were willing to ignore a lot of the other problems and plot holes since they were expecting an ending that would compensate for that.
People were willing to ignore the stupidity of having the game begin following the stupid Arrival DLC. They were willing to ignore the pointlessness of the nonsensical Cerberus stuff. They were willing to ignore their clumsy attempt to push Kai Leng on us as some kind of badass villain that we're supposed to be afraid of. They were willing to ignore the idiocy of the Reapers.
They were willing to ignore the fact that the main plot of ME2 was unnecessary. They were willing to ignore the huge plot hole in the final battle where the Reapers took over the Citadel and brought it to earth.
All because they were expecting an ending that would make up for all those problems.
So people who hated everything made Mass Effect, Mass Effect, were willing to overlook all that because the ending might make up for a series they obviously didn't like anything about? Wut?
If you think that plot holes, idiotic or pointless plot elements, and poorly written villains are what make Mass Effect, Mass Effect, then yes.
Otherwise, you've missed the point of my post, which was that people were willing to overlook some obvious flaws in the series because they were expecting it to be worth it to stick it out to the end. However, the ending ruined all that.
Lets introduce a villain in a book we outsourced to some guy.
Surely this will titillate the fans.
Yeah this is pretty much the only thing in the main game (i.e. not ending) that really didn't sit well with me.
They wanted so hard for Kai Leng to be a "badass" and he just never was. He was weak, flimsy and they tried way too hard to make him seem like a threat and it just didn't work. He was never threatening, he was comically "badass" and every scene he was in was just annoying because it required plot armor to make him a "threat", and not anything he ever did and said.
Mostly worthless patch actually. Like the buff on the Talon and Wraith though. A Krogan Sentinel with a Shotgun is still far away from being viable, but at least I got a good replacement for my Carnifex on my Winfiltrator now.
Maybe on Gold it doesn't work well (and I'm just saying that because I don't know either way), but bronze and silver? This statement is objectively wrong, and may the Enkindlers have mercy on your soul.
More time would have made a difference in the game though. I wouldn't believe that the scanning would work the way it does if they had more time. I feel like Jeff G from GB said this almost verbatim and I agree. I also don't think that they would have included the wave based stuff in the SP the way they did it if they had more time.
Also, I have to imagine that with more time, they would have included another multiplayer map or two. At least there would have been more hooks or explanation for further DLC maps than we currently have.
0
Options
ThegreatcowLord of All BaconsWashington State - It's Wet up here innit? Registered Userregular
If it makes you feel any better Orca, (and if I am not confusing other posts with yours) I can agree with your position, and still think that failed execution of the ending is a Very Bad Thing. As in it should not have happened this way. This is not good speculation, this is the very bad I feel like I got fucked over thing.
The analogy I have been using for this whole fiasco boils down to this. I had 3 batches of grapes. The first 2 were pretty damn good with the occasional sour one in the mix. On my 3rd batch all the grapes have been the best grapes I have had in years, but my last 3 grapes end up being the sourest, most bitter grapes I have ever had. It does not make the grapes beforehand any less delicious. It just means that my last experience was by far the worst and that means im not buying any grapes for a long time because of that memory.
Unless those last 3 grapes gave you salmonella, I just don't see this point of view at all.
And the ending didn't do that.
Which is why I'm a proud member of the few, the proud, the Bad Opinion Brigade. REPRESENT.
Thats because its psychological (perhaps physiological?) you cold unfeeling monster.
Seriously though, have you never been hurt in an argument and not talked to that person for some amount of time? Im not saying people don't get over it or move on. Im saying that its hard wired into people to avoid things that have made a negative impact on them.
The precieved terribleness of the ending marks the last thing most people are going to see with the game. Negative emotions severely outrank good emotions for a damn good evolutionary reason, to keep you from getting killed or sick or any number of terrible things. This memory of terrible things translates badly to things like games because it will never be actual life or death but the evolutionary machinery is still built in. Hence because of a few bad grapes you avoid all grapes for some time.
Except we are humans, and have the cognitive capacity to say "I am not going to let my bad feelings about the last five minutes of the game override the thirty hours of joy I got from it previously". We have conscious, and can actively override the "evolution machinery" in our head, unless we are in pure fight or flight mode...which the ending of a game generally doesn't cause.
You're inserting an emotional obligation where none exists.
I am obligated to overlook my mother's flaws so I can have a relationship with her.
I am not obligated to overlook flaws in a video game.
You're not obligated to do the first one either, you choose to because you want a relationship with your mother. I want a relationship with Mass Effect, I am choosing to ignore the wart on it's left butt cheek, because the rest of it us supple and gorgeous.
Oh dear, I think I'm a bit more obligated to tolerate my mother's flaws than I am to tolerate Mass Effect's flaws, so we'll just agree to disagree.
As someone who has chosen to mostly not have a relationship with his mother, I will admit my position on this is probably skewed.
How about this then, I'm obligated to get dressed and seek a restroom when I need to go
Please don't tell me you walk around naked and just poop wherever
I think one of the reasons why people were so upset about the ending was because they were willing to ignore a lot of the other problems and plot holes since they were expecting an ending that would compensate for that.
People were willing to ignore the stupidity of having the game begin following the stupid Arrival DLC. They were willing to ignore the pointlessness of the nonsensical Cerberus stuff. They were willing to ignore their clumsy attempt to push Kai Leng on us as some kind of badass villain that we're supposed to be afraid of. They were willing to ignore the idiocy of the Reapers.
They were willing to ignore the fact that the main plot of ME2 was unnecessary. They were willing to ignore the huge plot hole in the final battle where the Reapers took over the Citadel and brought it to earth.
All because they were expecting an ending that would make up for all those problems.
So people who hated everything made Mass Effect, Mass Effect, were willing to overlook all that because the ending might make up for a series they obviously didn't like anything about? Wut?
If you think that plot holes, idiotic or pointless plot elements, and poorly written villains are what make Mass Effect, Mass Effect, then yes.
Otherwise, you've missed the point of my post, which was that people were willing to overlook some obvious flaws in the series because they were expecting it to be worth it to stick it out to the end. However, the ending ruined all that.
I can't imagine sitting through a series of any medium where I find that much flaw and going "Yes, but the ending, THE ENDING, it's going to make all these glaring flaws I see totally worth it".
Posts
I would never argue that we can not overcome our limitations. I know full damn well that in about 2-3 months ill stop giving a shit at all about this game. That being said this bias in our evolution should not just be straight out dismissed. Its there, the root of everything good and bad about all of our lives and to belittle it is a failure to understand it. Emotions are not easy to turn on and off. If they were we would not be having these unending discussions about why the ending failed us individually when the rest of the game was so damn good.
This is the best hope at this point. I agree with the Extra Credits guy, I actually don't want them to change the ending. Good, or bad (and it's bad), it is what it is...this is the game BioWare released...but a DLC that answers some questions, and gives some closure, will be cathartic.
I also hope that BioWare has learned a lesson about trying to develop their flagship single player franchise while also trying to develop a hundred million dollar MMO, and how that can bleed over and cause time and budgetary constraints for one or the other.
Badassfully: See, I don't find the "human reaper" contrived in the least, I thought it made perfect sense. The Reapers were already all about turning a race against themselves (Husks and Collectors are both bastardized versions of their original race... quite the psychological tactic), so it only made sense they'd create something super-unsettling. Not to mention, it showed us what they're doing with their "reaping", and it's reproduction. You have an enemy that's slaughtering people by the millions just so they can make one more of themselves, and that's just unsettling.
Not to mention it just made for a good boss fight...
Badassfully:
You're inserting an emotional obligation where none exists.
I am obligated to overlook my mother's flaws so I can have a relationship with her. I am obligated to deal with unpleasant people at work.
I am not obligated to train myself to tolerate ME3's ending and I cannot force myself to suddenly enjoy the rest of the game. It's pretty much lost emotional resonance from me and I have absolutely no desire to play anything created by Bioware anymore. The onus is on Bioware to change my mind or not, it is not on me.
You're not obligated to do the first one either, you choose to because you want a relationship with your mother. I want a relationship with Mass Effect, I am choosing to ignore the wart on it's left butt cheek, because the rest of it us supple and gorgeous.
Be warned that he's a political commentator and he gets political at the end, but it's worth reading all the way through and watching the Bill Whittle video at the bottom.
http://pjmedia.com/eddriscoll/2012/03/26/kill-em-all-let-pauline-kael-sort-it-out/
DAT CODEX
People were willing to ignore the stupidity of having the game begin following the stupid Arrival DLC. They were willing to ignore the pointlessness of the nonsensical Cerberus stuff. They were willing to ignore their clumsy attempt to push Kai Leng on us as some kind of badass villain that we're supposed to be afraid of. They were willing to ignore the idiocy of the Reapers.
I'm not sure how you pulled that off, but CarbonFire didn't write that...I did....wonder why Vanilla attributed the quote to Carbon.
Oh dear, I think I'm a bit more obligated to tolerate my mother's flaws than I am to tolerate Mass Effect's flaws, so we'll just agree to disagree.
So people who hated everything made Mass Effect, Mass Effect, were willing to overlook all that because the ending might make up for a series they obviously didn't like anything about? Wut?
But I think I'll blame Vanilla instead because I'm perfect.
Steam ID: Obos Vent: Obos
As someone who has chosen to mostly not have a relationship with his mother, I will admit my position on this is probably skewed.
Dythar
Human ShadowKnight
Can't speak for everyone, but I didn't consider most of those problems. Arrival was great. Cerberus was... well, they've never exactly been the good guys. Kai Leng (and for that matter Vega) was a new character to me. I think the Reaper component is telling but not quite spot on:
Damn my lack of image posting ability from my iPhone!
Wud yoo laek to lern aboot meatz? Look here!
How about this then, I'm obligated to get dressed and seek a restroom when I need to go
Please don't tell me you walk around naked and just poop wherever
I was expecting more of that, not a regression to ME1 or less.
Well I wouldn't just say wherever...
But now your comparing bodily processes with overlooking faults in something to see the good of the greater whole. Unless you want to talk about overlooking the peanuts in my loaf, because the rest of it is good solid fecal matter? I...I'm not really sure where we are going with this.
It seemed clear from cut audio (from the somethingawful thread they had quite a bit) that was originally what they had in mind
Christ man, I have no obligation to feel the same way as you about Mass Effect, let it go.
There's no need to be deliberately obtuse and declaring "well I CAN IGNORE THE ENDING so you all should" is kind of goosy
I do consider it regrettable that BioWare has been tending to build important plot points in sequels around optional DLC in prequels.
Not to mention the DLC in ME3 actually being pretty important to a full appreciation of the story.
http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/343/index/9544143
Mostly worthless patch actually. Like the buff on the Talon and Wraith though. A Krogan Sentinel with a Shotgun is still far away from being viable, but at least I got a good replacement for my Carnifex on my Winfiltrator now.
Steam ID: 76561198021298113
Origin ID: SR71C_Blackbird
What?
Surely this will titillate the fans.
I hate it when dudes get tickles.
Yes. What? A Krogan Sentinel with a Shotgun is like...apples and pie.
They're made for each other. In what possible way is it not viable, because my success rate with it would say otherwise.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
I am as entitled to my complaining as you are you complaining complainer.
Well the only shotguns that do decent damage are the Wraith, Claymore and Spike Thrower. The Spike Throwers projectile are slower than an Elcor, you can only hit really slow moving targets with it and have no chance at anything else. The Claymore does really nice damage, but its range, reload speed and one-shottiness make it too slow. The Wraith is a bit better with its two shots but therefore needs two shots to kill and doesn't make much difference in the end.
I could try using a Scimitar or Katana, but they seem to be way weaker, which would mean more shots per kill resulting in the same problem.
Edit: Also, with all it's Health, shields and damage reductions, even the Krogan Sentinel doesn't last much longer on Gold which is the complete opposite of the Krogans main trait: Survivability under all circumstances. I'm not really feeling my quadruple organs here.
Steam ID: 76561198021298113
Origin ID: SR71C_Blackbird
If you think that plot holes, idiotic or pointless plot elements, and poorly written villains are what make Mass Effect, Mass Effect, then yes.
Otherwise, you've missed the point of my post, which was that people were willing to overlook some obvious flaws in the series because they were expecting it to be worth it to stick it out to the end. However, the ending ruined all that.
Yeah this is pretty much the only thing in the main game (i.e. not ending) that really didn't sit well with me.
They wanted so hard for Kai Leng to be a "badass" and he just never was. He was weak, flimsy and they tried way too hard to make him seem like a threat and it just didn't work. He was never threatening, he was comically "badass" and every scene he was in was just annoying because it required plot armor to make him a "threat", and not anything he ever did and said.
He was such a bad character.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
Maybe on Gold it doesn't work well (and I'm just saying that because I don't know either way), but bronze and silver? This statement is objectively wrong, and may the Enkindlers have mercy on your soul.
Also, I have to imagine that with more time, they would have included another multiplayer map or two. At least there would have been more hooks or explanation for further DLC maps than we currently have.
Wud yoo laek to lern aboot meatz? Look here!
I can't imagine sitting through a series of any medium where I find that much flaw and going "Yes, but the ending, THE ENDING, it's going to make all these glaring flaws I see totally worth it".
Not sure how I feel about that.
Also the Falcon got rebuffed.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
But my overriding right to complain about complaining about complaining!