Well he did try to leave but his bros convinced him to stay
That was after he took his vows.
Was that in S1 of the show? Because if not, it shouldn't be in the thread and either way it shouldn't be un-spoilered.
last episode of season 1. It lasted all of five minutes... it was after he had a long conversation with the Maester at the wall, which along with the recent news from the south inspired his actions.
All covered by TV.
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Let's play Mario Kart or something...
I think you should spoiler stuff like that, since you have actually read the books and are just pretending to not know the future. Just my 2 cents.
He doesn't spoil anything from the books, except that his spec isn't known yet.
He says he is speculating about something happening while pretending to not have read the books. This means he knows that's not going to happen.
People aren't dumb just because they want to avoid spoilers, you know. They can work stuff out, read between the lines of posts. Which is why this thread is NOT FOR TALKING ABOUT THE BOOKS.
There's a thread for book people too, right? Please just use that. I don't want to have to abandon this thread like I did for season 1 because people thought they were clever.
If you've read the books, you pretty much can't comment on future events or speculations, because every thing you say is basically spoilerific.
As someone who's read the books, and has a lot of friends who are now watching the show, I pretty much only comment on things that have already happened. Anything I say can ruin a moment later on in the future, so if it hasn't already been shown, just say "wait and see" or don't comment at all.
Diagnosed with AML on 6/1/12. Read about it: www.effleukemia.com
If you've read the books, you pretty much can't comment on future events or speculations, because every thing you say is basically spoilerific.
As someone who's read the books, and has a lot of friends who are now watching the show, I pretty much only comment on things that have already happened. Anything I say can ruin a moment later on in the future, so if it hasn't already been shown, just say "wait and see" or don't comment at all.
In some cases, Wait and See can be just as bad. Especially in a show like this where anyone can die... saying wait and see could imply that the character will live until something is resolved.
What really bugs me, though, is when someone tells me "Oh man! You will not believe what happens in this episode at the end!" Now I'm already set up for a twist and I'll miss the genuine shock that should come when I first see it. I much prefer no comment at all from people who already know what will happen.
pirateluigi on
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That's fair.
Fake spoilers are fun though, the subtler the better. (anecdote spoiler'd just in case, though it's about the show)
When I was introducing my brother to the show, we hit the scene in episode 2 where Ned tells Jon that the next time they speak, they'll talk about his mother. I said something to the effect of "X books later, and it hasn't happened yet!" (don't remember how far I had read at that point). It firmly planted an idea in his head that meant that events later in the season totally blindsided him, and it was glorious.
I think you should spoiler stuff like that, since you have actually read the books and are just pretending to not know the future. Just my 2 cents.
He doesn't spoil anything from the books, except that his spec isn't known yet.
He says he is speculating about something happening while pretending to not have read the books. This means he knows that's not going to happen.
People aren't dumb just because they want to avoid spoilers, you know. They can work stuff out, read between the lines of posts. Which is why this thread is NOT FOR TALKING ABOUT THE BOOKS.
Or you could get the fuck over it, since he was just talking and didn't spoil anything
Damn it, damned if I do, damned if I don't. This is just making me think two things: 1) If you have read the books, don't even bother trying to have a discussion on the show or 2) Spoiler EVERYTHING ... and people are probably going to get pissed anyways just clicking on it.
All I was trying to do was think about the situation the show presented me with in visual and audio terms. It made me think of how hard it is to have a city that is competitive with other civilizations in Civ V when its in the tundra and there is little to eat. And then I look at the show and they are sending even paltry numbers of criminals, some of whom are children, with that group that is leaving Kingslanding which is juxtaposed by a few members of the Night's Watch wining and dining, then outright begging a dwarf in the vein hope that it will mean supplies. Its not even Winter yet as presented in the old lady's story or the old man's bones and they are running low on everything a army needs to defend let alone attack, which means sieges and the ability to launch sorties. They are running out of skilled personnel, they are running out of food, their equipment is worn out and not being replaced, and their rangers/scouts aren't returning (first episode) - I don't know about you, but I didn't see a whole lot of food, weapons, armor, or experts being sent with those criminals and children. The Wall most of all needs food and to get food in that world, you need farmers, and farmers need families to work the damn places so as to not lose the knowledge it takes to do the task over generations. In their world, farmers aren't trained, their born - the rest, the ability to make tools, weapons, armor, and raise animals would just be a freakin bonus to having people's needs met. See, I am doing my damned best to only consider what has happened in the show and a few games, not what I have read in the books.
He says he is speculating about something happening while pretending to not have read the books. This means he knows that's not going to happen.
Man, I am not going to tell you either way how correct or incorrect that statement is but suffice it to say, you really can't say that definitively. My "speculation" is just an opinion based on the show and various games I have played and look forward to playing, like Civ, Mount&Blade, Crusader Kings, etc - if I was a character in the Night's Watch, I would be begging Tyrion for help too because they are boned by things like honour with that damn oath considering how little of that the people to the south of them have or are sending them.
I am going to go look for some more Game of Thrones mods/maps or maybe crack open the map maker for Civ. Laters.
I mean, isn't that the whole point of the Wall chapters? To show how run down and ill equipped it is to deal with the incoming winter?
Like, it's all doom and gloom, and I understand that this is a common trope in fantasy novels where "bad things will happen" and then nothing of consequence really actually happens.
If you hadn't already guessed
this show/book actually makes good on its threats.
The sense of dread you get when watching just what a shit show the wall is...I imagine...the goal? So good job to the actors/producers/director/set people...
Diagnosed with AML on 6/1/12. Read about it: www.effleukemia.com
If you've read the books, you pretty much can't comment on future events or speculations, because every thing you say is basically spoilerific.
As someone who's read the books, and has a lot of friends who are now watching the show, I pretty much only comment on things that have already happened. Anything I say can ruin a moment later on in the future, so if it hasn't already been shown, just say "wait and see" or don't comment at all.
This is an excellent post - I was thinking the same thing.
If you have read all the books, then your speculations show that those events have not happened in books 2-5. Which is a spoiler.
It's inobvious, I get that. I don't think you're a bad person for missing it.
But I do think that if someone calls you on spoilers and you argue about it you come off pretty poorly.
We are just going to keep having these problems the whole way through aren't we? Even though 'no book discussion' is in the title.
If you have read the books, it's not hard to keep your commentary to how they've adapted the novels. For example, you get to talk about how you envisioned things vs. how they're depicted here. Or how well/badly actor X has portrayed character Y. Or you can discuss the exciting new scenes where Ros is fucking someone while they monologue and if that adds to/changes your interpretation of the story. You can talk about the really impressive set design and location scouting going on. There is lots to discuss without telling the people who have not read the books what is going to happen in the future.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
Yeah, these threads tend to be pretty good about explicit spoilers, but the implicit ones can be just as bad sometimes
Reading 8 pages of comments like:
"God, I can't wait until season 3 when Bob [spoilerz]"
"Yeah or season 2 when Joe will [spoilerzz]"
"It's too bad that they cast such a great actor for a minor character like Bill"
Welp, now we know Bob will survive season 2, Bill will never really be that important and/or die soon, and Joe might die in season 3
Personally I don't actually mind ending spoilers that much, but getting spoiled on the surprises leading up to it can really kill a story's fun.
EDIT: Correct me bad use of words, words be hard
Kana on
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
Yeah, pretty are pretty good about explicit spoilers, but the implicit ones can be pretty dumb too.
Reading 8 pages of comments like:
"God, I can't wait until season 3 when Bob [spoilerz]"
"Yeah or season 2 when Joe will [spoilerzz]"
"It's too bad that they cast such a great actor for a minor character like Bill"
Welp, now we know Bob will survive season 2, Bill will never really be that important and/or die soon, and Joe might die in season 3
Personally I don't actually mind ending spoilers that much, but getting spoiled on the surprises leading up to it can really kill a story's fun.
I agree that we have to be careful about spoilers. I've actually studiously avoided telling people who my favorite characters are until after they read the books, because the fact that I like them might imply something about their future actions, if they haven't done anything favorite-worthy yet on TV.
That said, my favorite characters on the TV series don't exactly line up with my favorite characters in the books, at least not yet.
Where I'm a little more hesitant is things that are heavily implied but not explicitly stated in the series, but completely and explicitly established in the corresponding part of the first book. I will give you a completely made up and implausible example:
If book 1 explicitly states that, say, Littlefinger's mother was actually a ten-foot-tall talking carrot... and the show just says "Oh Littlefinger, your mother was a conical orange vegetable of great size," and then pans to a painting of a giant carrot... if someone says "you know, I think Littlefinger's mother is a giant talking carrot" can we say "yes, you're right. It's strongly implied in the series but explicitly established in the books."
I'm not talking about things that are glossed over to the point that they may be saving them for later reveals, I'm talking about things that we're clearly meant to infer in the series but that are explained in great detail in the first book.
I've been erring on the side of safety and spoilers tags with things like this, but I'm curious.
Actual example spoilered.
I knew someone who genuinely didn't understand what was happening during the sequences where Bran was walking around. If I explained "He's dreaming, which is why he keeps seeing that three-eyed crow" would that be considered a spoiler?
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I don't know how you could see "Character is doing something/seeing something that shouldn't be possible, then you see him waking up" and not get that's a dream.
You can sort of a make a reasonable assumption that Benjen as the younger brother didn't really have anything in his future (best case: his kids eventually become like the Karstarks, I suppose; depends how much of the land in the North has been handed out to various lords), so did something his family considers super honorable.
I don't know...his brother is the Warden of the North, and Lord of Winterfell. Like, one step down from the damn King. I have to think that family could come up with some land for the one and only brother than Ned had. We're not talking about the Freys, here. I just can't come up with any good reason for Benjen to go, aside from Honor(TM) or some kind of...situation...that we aren't told about.
Maybe he joined the Night's Watch before Brandon died. They never mention what he was up to during the whole rebellion war. Though do we know how much younger Benjen is to Ned?
You can sort of a make a reasonable assumption that Benjen as the younger brother didn't really have anything in his future (best case: his kids eventually become like the Karstarks, I suppose; depends how much of the land in the North has been handed out to various lords), so did something his family considers super honorable.
I don't know...his brother is the Warden of the North, and Lord of Winterfell. Like, one step down from the damn King. I have to think that family could come up with some land for the one and only brother than Ned had. We're not talking about the Freys, here. I just can't come up with any good reason for Benjen to go, aside from Honor(TM) or some kind of...situation...that we aren't told about.
They've been divvying up the land for a loooooong time. Eventually you run out and arbitrarily stripping vassals of land to give to your brother will make your other vassals kind of pissed.
Or I've been playing too much Crusader Kings 2.
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
Damn it, damned if I do, damned if I don't. This is just making me think two things: 1) If you have read the books, don't even bother trying to have a discussion on the show or 2) Spoiler EVERYTHING ... and people are probably going to get pissed anyways just clicking on it.
It's actually pretty simple.
1) Yes, exactly. Go to the book thread and talk about the show there. If people in this thread are discussing something and you know the answer just don't say anything.. Or quote it in the book thread and talk about it there. Even if it's something that happened in the show, I'd say it's dangerous to say anything that isn't - for example - on the HBO website or something.
2) If it happened in season 1, it seems like people are spoilering it in this thread. Ya, you're going to want to spoiler everything.
I've read the books and have LOVED watching the show. Not a single one of my friends has read the books (or had when the show started) and as difficult as it is to keep a straight face when they (season 1 spoilers)
Refer to Ned Stark as the main character
, you don't say anything.
That said, I've got to believe that there is simply nowhere safe on the internet if you really want to be spoiler free. It is way too easy for an anonymous person like myself to post whatever I want in this thread knowing that it's going to ruin at least one person's viewing experience.
Maybe he joined the Night's Watch before Brandon died. They never mention what he was up to during the whole rebellion war. Though do we know how much younger Benjen is to Ned?
If he did join the Watch after the rebellion, it's not that hard to imagine that seeing the realm tear itself apart and losing two of his siblings might make him want to withdraw from society. The Watch is an honorable way to do that.
Can we do the usual thing and allow season one spoilers "in the clear" once season two is underway? Makes the thread a lot easier to dig through, and conversation easier.
Can we do the usual thing and allow season one spoilers "in the clear" once season two is underway? Makes the thread a lot easier to dig through, and conversation easier.
i don't really have a strong opinion on the matter. this is my first tv show thread i've made so i am fine doing basically whatever y'all say is the best thing. the strict spoilers thing only ever arose because a bunch of people PM'd me as the OP to request that policy and once i asked a mod he said he was going to enforce it.
if everyone here wants season 1 stuff to be regarded as common knowledge once s2 has aired, i guess that is ok with me? is that how it's usually done with tv show threads?
I'd personally like S1 to be "open" once S2 begins just to make the thread more readable (seems like other TV show threads do that), but like Organichu, I'm fine either way.
Coolio. And yeah, in most TV show threads I've frequented, past seasons are treated as common knowledge. Current seasons vary from "spoiler for a week or so to let DVR people watch on their own schedule" to "spoiler everything, you asshole." Given the...nature of this series I lean towards the latter, even though I tend to stay current (and have read the books, or at least past the show).
I would agree with S1 being open by Sunday night and spoiler plot developments from S2 as they happen on TV. Though I know I'll forget to do the latter. I apologize in advance.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
Damn it, damned if I do, damned if I don't. This is just making me think two things: 1) If you have read the books, don't even bother trying to have a discussion on the show or 2) Spoiler EVERYTHING ... and people are probably going to get pissed anyways just clicking on it.
It's actually pretty simple.
1) Yes, exactly. Go to the book thread and talk about the show there. If people in this thread are discussing something and you know the answer just don't say anything.. Or quote it in the book thread and talk about it there.
But that's fucking retarded, because what he said really was complete speculation unbacked by anything from the books
So maybe people should stop feeling incredibly butthurt all the time
I don't think you're going to be able to discuss the first season unspoilered without some people getting extremely pissed. I think it's dumb and hampers discussion, but the second someone accidentally wanders into the thread and sees the spoiler, they're going to go apeshit and the thread will derail for pages on OMG we have spoilers tags use them.
I don't think you're going to be able to discuss the first season unspoilered without some people getting extremely pissed. I think it's dumb and hampers discussion, but the second someone accidentally wanders into the thread and sees the spoiler, they're going to go apeshit and the thread will derail for pages on OMG we have spoilers tags use them.
If they're super-invested in not being spoiled they probably shouldn't be reading about it on the internet
If you need to type both "incredibly retarded" and "butthurt" into any post, take it as a hint that it probably doesn't need to be written
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
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If you need to type both "incredibly retarded" and "butthurt" into any post, take it as a hint that it probably doesn't need to be written
It's such a fucking ridiculous situation. Someone really is speculating about something, but having acknowledged that he read the books, people assume he is being a jackass and spoilering them by proxy. He can't say "No, I'm not, we haven't actually gotten to that in the books yet" because then zomg book discussion. Maybe people should, I dunno, assume good faith, that seems like a plan.
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last episode of season 1. It lasted all of five minutes... it was after he had a long conversation with the Maester at the wall, which along with the recent news from the south inspired his actions.
All covered by TV.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
I think you should spoiler stuff like that, since you have actually read the books and are just pretending to not know the future. Just my 2 cents.
He says he is speculating about something happening while pretending to not have read the books. This means he knows that's not going to happen.
People aren't dumb just because they want to avoid spoilers, you know. They can work stuff out, read between the lines of posts. Which is why this thread is NOT FOR TALKING ABOUT THE BOOKS.
As someone who's read the books, and has a lot of friends who are now watching the show, I pretty much only comment on things that have already happened. Anything I say can ruin a moment later on in the future, so if it hasn't already been shown, just say "wait and see" or don't comment at all.
In some cases, Wait and See can be just as bad. Especially in a show like this where anyone can die... saying wait and see could imply that the character will live until something is resolved.
What really bugs me, though, is when someone tells me "Oh man! You will not believe what happens in this episode at the end!" Now I'm already set up for a twist and I'll miss the genuine shock that should come when I first see it. I much prefer no comment at all from people who already know what will happen.
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Fake spoilers are fun though, the subtler the better. (anecdote spoiler'd just in case, though it's about the show)
Or you could get the fuck over it, since he was just talking and didn't spoil anything
All I was trying to do was think about the situation the show presented me with in visual and audio terms. It made me think of how hard it is to have a city that is competitive with other civilizations in Civ V when its in the tundra and there is little to eat. And then I look at the show and they are sending even paltry numbers of criminals, some of whom are children, with that group that is leaving Kingslanding which is juxtaposed by a few members of the Night's Watch wining and dining, then outright begging a dwarf in the vein hope that it will mean supplies. Its not even Winter yet as presented in the old lady's story or the old man's bones and they are running low on everything a army needs to defend let alone attack, which means sieges and the ability to launch sorties. They are running out of skilled personnel, they are running out of food, their equipment is worn out and not being replaced, and their rangers/scouts aren't returning (first episode) - I don't know about you, but I didn't see a whole lot of food, weapons, armor, or experts being sent with those criminals and children. The Wall most of all needs food and to get food in that world, you need farmers, and farmers need families to work the damn places so as to not lose the knowledge it takes to do the task over generations. In their world, farmers aren't trained, their born - the rest, the ability to make tools, weapons, armor, and raise animals would just be a freakin bonus to having people's needs met. See, I am doing my damned best to only consider what has happened in the show and a few games, not what I have read in the books.
Man, I am not going to tell you either way how correct or incorrect that statement is but suffice it to say, you really can't say that definitively. My "speculation" is just an opinion based on the show and various games I have played and look forward to playing, like Civ, Mount&Blade, Crusader Kings, etc - if I was a character in the Night's Watch, I would be begging Tyrion for help too because they are boned by things like honour with that damn oath considering how little of that the people to the south of them have or are sending them.
I am going to go look for some more Game of Thrones mods/maps or maybe crack open the map maker for Civ. Laters.
Like, it's all doom and gloom, and I understand that this is a common trope in fantasy novels where "bad things will happen" and then nothing of consequence really actually happens.
If you hadn't already guessed
The sense of dread you get when watching just what a shit show the wall is...I imagine...the goal? So good job to the actors/producers/director/set people...
Preparing for a full season re-watch with the pop-up info on and then check out at least the Emilia Clarke commentary.
5 days to go!!
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This is an excellent post - I was thinking the same thing.
If you have read all the books, then your speculations show that those events have not happened in books 2-5. Which is a spoiler.
It's inobvious, I get that. I don't think you're a bad person for missing it.
But I do think that if someone calls you on spoilers and you argue about it you come off pretty poorly.
We are just going to keep having these problems the whole way through aren't we? Even though 'no book discussion' is in the title.
That's... not great, really.
Reading 8 pages of comments like:
"God, I can't wait until season 3 when Bob [spoilerz]"
"Yeah or season 2 when Joe will [spoilerzz]"
"It's too bad that they cast such a great actor for a minor character like Bill"
Welp, now we know Bob will survive season 2, Bill will never really be that important and/or die soon, and Joe might die in season 3
Personally I don't actually mind ending spoilers that much, but getting spoiled on the surprises leading up to it can really kill a story's fun.
EDIT: Correct me bad use of words, words be hard
I didn't know who killed Lily Kane though, and it was fun to figure it out (I was right!).
Yes, I've been having the same problem with ME3.
That said, my favorite characters on the TV series don't exactly line up with my favorite characters in the books, at least not yet.
Where I'm a little more hesitant is things that are heavily implied but not explicitly stated in the series, but completely and explicitly established in the corresponding part of the first book. I will give you a completely made up and implausible example:
If book 1 explicitly states that, say, Littlefinger's mother was actually a ten-foot-tall talking carrot... and the show just says "Oh Littlefinger, your mother was a conical orange vegetable of great size," and then pans to a painting of a giant carrot... if someone says "you know, I think Littlefinger's mother is a giant talking carrot" can we say "yes, you're right. It's strongly implied in the series but explicitly established in the books."
I'm not talking about things that are glossed over to the point that they may be saving them for later reveals, I'm talking about things that we're clearly meant to infer in the series but that are explained in great detail in the first book.
I've been erring on the side of safety and spoilers tags with things like this, but I'm curious.
Actual example spoilered.
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Nerd blog at culturalgeekgirl.com
I don't know how you could see "Character is doing something/seeing something that shouldn't be possible, then you see him waking up" and not get that's a dream.
I don't know...his brother is the Warden of the North, and Lord of Winterfell. Like, one step down from the damn King. I have to think that family could come up with some land for the one and only brother than Ned had. We're not talking about the Freys, here. I just can't come up with any good reason for Benjen to go, aside from Honor(TM) or some kind of...situation...that we aren't told about.
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They've been divvying up the land for a loooooong time. Eventually you run out and arbitrarily stripping vassals of land to give to your brother will make your other vassals kind of pissed.
Or I've been playing too much Crusader Kings 2.
It's actually pretty simple.
1) Yes, exactly. Go to the book thread and talk about the show there. If people in this thread are discussing something and you know the answer just don't say anything.. Or quote it in the book thread and talk about it there. Even if it's something that happened in the show, I'd say it's dangerous to say anything that isn't - for example - on the HBO website or something.
2) If it happened in season 1, it seems like people are spoilering it in this thread. Ya, you're going to want to spoiler everything.
I've read the books and have LOVED watching the show. Not a single one of my friends has read the books (or had when the show started) and as difficult as it is to keep a straight face when they (season 1 spoilers)
That said, I've got to believe that there is simply nowhere safe on the internet if you really want to be spoiler free. It is way too easy for an anonymous person like myself to post whatever I want in this thread knowing that it's going to ruin at least one person's viewing experience.
Happy viewing show watchers.
If he did join the Watch after the rebellion, it's not that hard to imagine that seeing the realm tear itself apart and losing two of his siblings might make him want to withdraw from society. The Watch is an honorable way to do that.
i don't really have a strong opinion on the matter. this is my first tv show thread i've made so i am fine doing basically whatever y'all say is the best thing. the strict spoilers thing only ever arose because a bunch of people PM'd me as the OP to request that policy and once i asked a mod he said he was going to enforce it.
if everyone here wants season 1 stuff to be regarded as common knowledge once s2 has aired, i guess that is ok with me? is that how it's usually done with tv show threads?
But that's fucking retarded, because what he said really was complete speculation unbacked by anything from the books
So maybe people should stop feeling incredibly butthurt all the time
If they're super-invested in not being spoiled they probably shouldn't be reading about it on the internet
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It's such a fucking ridiculous situation. Someone really is speculating about something, but having acknowledged that he read the books, people assume he is being a jackass and spoilering them by proxy. He can't say "No, I'm not, we haven't actually gotten to that in the books yet" because then zomg book discussion. Maybe people should, I dunno, assume good faith, that seems like a plan.