You know, my game collection this current generation is significantly larger than my game collection in any previous generation. Losing backwards compatibility would suck - particularly since I imagine that'll mean no backwards compatibility with the PS2 or PSX games, either. And I really don't want to have to keep multiple consoles setup. I only have so many shelves on my entertainment center.
Or, and I know I'm probably in the minority here, you could:
A. Buy fewer games.
B. Play the games you do buy. C. Move on when the industry does.
You really think it's unreasonable to ask for the option to play the games I've given the industry thousands of dollars for over this generation?
The fact that Sony slapped PS2 owners in the face by removing PS2 compatibility from the PS3 still stings for a lot of people. It made people who spent hundreds or thousands of dollars on a large PS2 library feel completely insulted, and there was no need for it.
Arguably, the industry allows you to keep playing those games on the system it's designed for. Backward compatibility has always been added value. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for it, but I understand platform holders not wanting to go through the hurdles of making it happen, especially if Sony's next system uses more standard architecture.
I believe the PS3 originally did backwards compatibility by dropping a PS2 inside the system. That adds to the cost. Removing it makes a cheaper system. On software backwards compatibility, Sony saves the costs of paying internal developers to work on making old software backwards compatible one-by-one or building a whole emulator within the new system.
I understand the desire, but I'm just not sure platform holders believe it makes good business sense outside of engendering customer loyalty. Loyalty, which while a good thing, cannot be translated directly into sales numbers.
EDIT: Santa is saying it in his blunt manner, but yes, ultimately the games you have now will still work on the consoles they were designed for. The fact they you need to keep the old consoles is a quality-of-life issues I agree, but I'm not sure the platform holders are toying with forgoing backwards-compatibility out of malice. My guess is it's a cost-cutting measure. I do find it interesting that we decry higher prices (in the 3DS/Vita case), but are unwilling to lose features to reach a lower MSRP.
Define "we"? I know several people (me included) that would have paid the pricing difference to have a PS3 with the PS2 BC still in the box. It is a major quality of life issue for a serious gamer, not just some passing "Well that would be nice". If I wanted to play all the games I own for systems in the past 12-15 years, and BC wasn't a "thing", I'd have 10+ consoles in my entertainment system. That's just dumb. BC is a quality of life feature, and a brand loyalty feature.
Microsoft was able to make BC (mostly) work without raising the cost of the 360 or having to jam an original XBox in there, why can't Sony do the same on the infinitely more powerful machine? (I actually know the reason for this, it has to do with the Emotion Engine's memory latency as compared to the PS3's, but I refuse to believe Sony isn't smart enough to figure it out).
I'll come right out and say it -- as much as it inconveniences us tech nerds, BC in general hasn't been proven to be that much of an influence in system buying. When Sony removed it from the PS3, sales actually went up. Wii sales don't appear to have suffered with its removal either (the Wii boom ended well before BC was taken out). Yeah, I prefer having BC, and it's really convenient for me too. But it doesn't seem to have been an essential feature.
I do wonder if BC for digitally-bought stuff will be more of an issue, though.
And again, as much as we pooh-pooh the $5 used game savings Gamestop offers, the general public goes ape for it.
Oh, I don't expect that most people will care. My argument was, at no point, 'OH MY GOD IF THEY TAKE IT OUT EVERYONE WILL HATE THEM'. It was 'well, that sucks, it's a feature I enjoy.' Which wasn't an unreasonable position to take, I assumed.
Nah, not in the least.
But if you dare suggest making combat easier in RPGs so casuals can enjoy the plot... *shakes fist*
As someone that just bought a PS3 two weeks ago if I had had the option to spend an extra $50 for backwards compatibility and have it be brand new hardware (ie, not a used 1st gen PS3) I totally would have paid it without any thought.
I think carrying over digital purchases is going to be more important than full blown BC. But then again I shudder to think of being buried in rereleases from last generation.
Or we could all just become PC gamers.
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
The 360 BC has it's issues, but it works for every game I try and play. It's at least an effort. It's made it so I don't need to keep an original XBox around. The Wii's GameCube BC works nearly flawless. Again, I don't need to keep a GC around (though I do keep a GC controller in my controller drawer). The only system from last gen I actually have to keep around? Oh hey look, it's a PS2. Thank god I don't have to keep a PSOne around...because the PS2 has PSOne BC.
You know, my game collection this current generation is significantly larger than my game collection in any previous generation. Losing backwards compatibility would suck - particularly since I imagine that'll mean no backwards compatibility with the PS2 or PSX games, either. And I really don't want to have to keep multiple consoles setup. I only have so many shelves on my entertainment center.
Or, and I know I'm probably in the minority here, you could:
A. Buy fewer games.
B. Play the games you do buy.
C. Move on when the industry does.
D. Only buy products which respect the "first sale doctrine".
What Sony did sucks because they advertised and sold BC as a feature, and then stripped it out later. Which means people like me who got a BC system and were led to believe they no longer needed their old console are now screwed if anything happens to the new one. My PS3 breaks down and I not only have to replace it, but I have to buy a PS2 now as well. It's lame and one of several reasons I now find Sony to be untrustworthy. I've now been taught not to get excited about the features in their systems, because who knows what feature I might get attached to only to have it taken away later?
Sony seems pretty shit when it comes to properly supporting features in the first place. I have a Vita. It's been out for over a month and I still can't play PS1 games, use remote play for PS3 games, and Near has worked a grand total of once. Way to have your feature set ready for launch, guys.
You know, my game collection this current generation is significantly larger than my game collection in any previous generation. Losing backwards compatibility would suck - particularly since I imagine that'll mean no backwards compatibility with the PS2 or PSX games, either. And I really don't want to have to keep multiple consoles setup. I only have so many shelves on my entertainment center.
Or, and I know I'm probably in the minority here, you could:
A. Buy fewer games.
B. Play the games you do buy. C. Move on when the industry does.
You really think it's unreasonable to ask for the option to play the games I've given the industry thousands of dollars for over this generation?
The fact that Sony slapped PS2 owners in the face by removing PS2 compatibility from the PS3 still stings for a lot of people. It made people who spent hundreds or thousands of dollars on a large PS2 library feel completely insulted, and there was no need for it.
Arguably, the industry allows you to keep playing those games on the system it's designed for. Backward compatibility has always been added value. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for it, but I understand platform holders not wanting to go through the hurdles of making it happen, especially if Sony's next system uses more standard architecture.
I believe the PS3 originally did backwards compatibility by dropping a PS2 inside the system. That adds to the cost. Removing it makes a cheaper system. On software backwards compatibility, Sony saves the costs of paying internal developers to work on making old software backwards compatible one-by-one or building a whole emulator within the new system.
I understand the desire, but I'm just not sure platform holders believe it makes good business sense outside of engendering customer loyalty. Loyalty, which while a good thing, cannot be translated directly into sales numbers.
EDIT: Santa is saying it in his blunt manner, but yes, ultimately the games you have now will still work on the consoles they were designed for. The fact they you need to keep the old consoles is a quality-of-life issues I agree, but I'm not sure the platform holders are toying with forgoing backwards-compatibility out of malice. My guess is it's a cost-cutting measure. I do find it interesting that we decry higher prices (in the 3DS/Vita case), but are unwilling to lose features to reach a lower MSRP.
Define "we"? I know several people (me included) that would have paid the pricing difference to have a PS3 with the PS2 BC still in the box. It is a major quality of life issue for a serious gamer, not just some passing "Well that would be nice". If I wanted to play all the games I own for systems in the past 12-15 years, and BC wasn't a "thing", I'd have 10+ consoles in my entertainment system. That's just dumb. BC is a quality of life feature, and a brand loyalty feature.
Microsoft was able to make BC (mostly) work without raising the cost of the 360 or having to jam an original XBox in there, why can't Sony do the same on the infinitely more powerful machine? (I actually know the reason for this, it has to do with the Emotion Engine's memory latency as compared to the PS3's, but I refuse to believe Sony isn't smart enough to figure it out).
Forgiveness, perhaps I overreached with "we". But how much would you spend for BC? Most peg it at $50. What about $100?
And the 360's backward compatibility program was rough at best, and they quietly discontinued work on it. I mean, this is the list and they eventually just said "screw it, we're done." And this is with the Xbox and Xbox 360 both using what could be termed as standard PC hardware. I assume Microsoft just found the return wasn't worth employing a team to go through each Xbox game and make it work.
The 360 BC has it's issues, but it works for every game I try and play. It's at least an effort. It's made it so I don't need to keep an original XBox around. The Wii's GameCube BC works nearly flawless. Again, I don't need to keep a GC around (though I do keep a GC controller in my controller drawer). The only system from last gen I actually have to keep around? Oh hey look, it's a PS2. Thank god I don't have to keep a PSOne around...because the PS2 has PSOne BC.
The Wii uses the same kludge as the original PS3 right? Just cram a GC inside the system?
Again, I'm not saying they shouldn't look into it. But they're also not demons for leaving it out. It's a reasonable decision on paper.
I think carrying over digital purchases is going to be more important than full blown BC. But then again I shudder to think of being buried in rereleases from last generation.
Or we could all just become PC gamers.
I don't know why that would worry you...
Coming to PS4 - God of War: The Collections 3D, featuring new remastered 3d versions of the God of War Collection and God of War Origins now all on one disc.
If the protection against used game sales really happens, how big do you think the backlash will be? I know that Korea's going to be fucking livid, but what about other territories?
Unfortunately, I think you'll see a vocal minority outraged, while the majority of the public will just shrug and carry on as always. The fact is that most people aren't likely to get up in arms about it - they'll be mildly inconvenienced, sure, and will probably show some irritation towards a Gamestop employee or something, but at the end of the day they'll just shrug and buy games brand new.
I may be wrong - I hope I am, because while, as a developer, I would rather people buy games new, as a consumer I think it's a little too far.
Used games typically sell for like $5 less unless the game is ass-old anyway
It really depends on where you're looking. I mean, Gamestop may sell used games at $5 less, but if you go to pawn shops or used game stores, they may sell them for a lot less.
Yeah, that was going to be my argument - but I think where there's going to be the most backlash is not the 'can't buy used games anymore', but rather the 'can't resell my used games anymore'. In the former case, the most common situation is that the consumer will lose out on a 5-10$ savings, since the bulk of used sales are soon after a game launches. In the latter, however, you're losing out on the ability to get money for games you no longer play - and I think that's where the backlash will inevitably come from.
Citation needed. No one I know buys used games to save $5 a week after launch - they buy used games 3 months after launch for $30.
More importantly, used games create price competition in the market. People cite Steam as a panacea for DD reduxing the price of games, but conveniently forget that Steam was built specifically to compete with getting games for fucking free.
Personally, I'm not willing to pay more than $5-10 to rent code until the platform holder decides to shut shit down, and I have zero faith I'll ever be able to 'buy' games for that price on DRM locked consoles.
If the protection against used game sales really happens, how big do you think the backlash will be? I know that Korea's going to be fucking livid, but what about other territories?
Unfortunately, I think you'll see a vocal minority outraged, while the majority of the public will just shrug and carry on as always. The fact is that most people aren't likely to get up in arms about it - they'll be mildly inconvenienced, sure, and will probably show some irritation towards a Gamestop employee or something, but at the end of the day they'll just shrug and buy games brand new.
I may be wrong - I hope I am, because while, as a developer, I would rather people buy games new, as a consumer I think it's a little too far.
Used games typically sell for like $5 less unless the game is ass-old anyway
It really depends on where you're looking. I mean, Gamestop may sell used games at $5 less, but if you go to pawn shops or used game stores, they may sell them for a lot less.
Yeah, that was going to be my argument - but I think where there's going to be the most backlash is not the 'can't buy used games anymore', but rather the 'can't resell my used games anymore'. In the former case, the most common situation is that the consumer will lose out on a 5-10$ savings, since the bulk of used sales are soon after a game launches. In the latter, however, you're losing out on the ability to get money for games you no longer play - and I think that's where the backlash will inevitably come from.
Citation needed.
Seriously? Have you walked into a GameStop recently?
Odd question but here goes: Would used game sales limitations cause an issue for the launch of the inevitable PS5/Xbox4?
Many gamers use their prior generation console as a trade in towards the newest system. Gamestop's promotions are proof of this as they constantly do "trade in your ds for a bonus towards your 3ds", "trade in your ps2 towards a ps3 and get an extra $$", etc. When we get to the end of the PS4 generation and gamers can't do that - they can't recoup their investment at least in part to put towards the PS5 - will that slow down the launch of that next system?
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
When Sony removed it from the PS3, sales actually went up.
Correlation <> Causation.
I'd say the price drop in general was far more important there. And the price dropped by way more than the component cost of a PS2.
And Sony even said in some interview (which I will try and find) that most of the price drop was from getting yields of the various Cell components up, and the cost of BR drives down.
If the protection against used game sales really happens, how big do you think the backlash will be? I know that Korea's going to be fucking livid, but what about other territories?
Unfortunately, I think you'll see a vocal minority outraged, while the majority of the public will just shrug and carry on as always. The fact is that most people aren't likely to get up in arms about it - they'll be mildly inconvenienced, sure, and will probably show some irritation towards a Gamestop employee or something, but at the end of the day they'll just shrug and buy games brand new.
I may be wrong - I hope I am, because while, as a developer, I would rather people buy games new, as a consumer I think it's a little too far.
Used games typically sell for like $5 less unless the game is ass-old anyway
It really depends on where you're looking. I mean, Gamestop may sell used games at $5 less, but if you go to pawn shops or used game stores, they may sell them for a lot less.
Yeah, that was going to be my argument - but I think where there's going to be the most backlash is not the 'can't buy used games anymore', but rather the 'can't resell my used games anymore'. In the former case, the most common situation is that the consumer will lose out on a 5-10$ savings, since the bulk of used sales are soon after a game launches. In the latter, however, you're losing out on the ability to get money for games you no longer play - and I think that's where the backlash will inevitably come from.
Citation needed. No one I know buys used games to save $5 a week after launch - they buy used games 3 months after launch for $30.
More importantly, used games create price competition in the market. People cite Steam as a panacea for DD reduxing the price of games, but conveniently forget that Steam was built specifically to compete with getting games for fucking free.
Personally, I'm not willing to pay more than $5-10 to rent code until the platform holder decides to shut shit down, and I have zero faith I'll ever be able to 'buy' games for that price on DRM locked consoles.
I don't have a citation, no, but I'd be very, very surprised if this weren't true for the majority of the general public. Among the kinds of people on forums like this, yes, you're probably correct, but again - the biggest 'buy back' pushes are always soon after release, which are then resold for 5-10 dollars off.
Personally, the only time I ever buy used is in the latter case (months or years after release, and usually when a game is almost impossible to find new - as was the case with Demon's Souls during its first print run), but I don't think I'm in any way typical.
If the protection against used game sales really happens, how big do you think the backlash will be? I know that Korea's going to be fucking livid, but what about other territories?
Unfortunately, I think you'll see a vocal minority outraged, while the majority of the public will just shrug and carry on as always. The fact is that most people aren't likely to get up in arms about it - they'll be mildly inconvenienced, sure, and will probably show some irritation towards a Gamestop employee or something, but at the end of the day they'll just shrug and buy games brand new.
I may be wrong - I hope I am, because while, as a developer, I would rather people buy games new, as a consumer I think it's a little too far.
Used games typically sell for like $5 less unless the game is ass-old anyway
It really depends on where you're looking. I mean, Gamestop may sell used games at $5 less, but if you go to pawn shops or used game stores, they may sell them for a lot less.
Yeah, that was going to be my argument - but I think where there's going to be the most backlash is not the 'can't buy used games anymore', but rather the 'can't resell my used games anymore'. In the former case, the most common situation is that the consumer will lose out on a 5-10$ savings, since the bulk of used sales are soon after a game launches. In the latter, however, you're losing out on the ability to get money for games you no longer play - and I think that's where the backlash will inevitably come from.
Citation needed.
Seriously? Have you walked into a GameStop recently?
Yeah - its filled with kids and families rifling through bargain bins. Clearly my anecdote is better than yours!
We don't know shit about used game sales distribution; we just know GameStop makes a shitload of money off of it. Considering that ALL their used games sell for high profit margins (the rate is the same whether the buy back an old title for $7 and sell it for $10 or buy a new release for $35 and sell it for $50) the fact that they make lots of profit tells us nothing at all about whether they're selling a few new titles or a fuckload of older titles.
I suspect it's not all that stacked towards brand new releases in terms of sales VOLUME. Most of their inventory is older, and they face supply constraints making brand new titles available used - which is why they offer incentives to get more of them trade in (which, incidentally, not only indicates lower volume of sales but also implies potentially a lower profit margin) .
And volume is really what matters to the consumer in the 'no used' discussion, too. It hurts consumers more if a larger number of them are now unable to buy a larger number of games used.
If the protection against used game sales really happens, how big do you think the backlash will be? I know that Korea's going to be fucking livid, but what about other territories?
Unfortunately, I think you'll see a vocal minority outraged, while the majority of the public will just shrug and carry on as always. The fact is that most people aren't likely to get up in arms about it - they'll be mildly inconvenienced, sure, and will probably show some irritation towards a Gamestop employee or something, but at the end of the day they'll just shrug and buy games brand new.
I may be wrong - I hope I am, because while, as a developer, I would rather people buy games new, as a consumer I think it's a little too far.
Used games typically sell for like $5 less unless the game is ass-old anyway
Which is why I think people won't care all that much.
They care about the price, not some sort of "right to sell used games" principal.
They might get pissed for a bit, but most people won't know enough about how the whole market works to get worked up over the whole thing.
When Sony removed it from the PS3, sales actually went up.
Correlation <> Causation.
I'd say the price drop in general was far more important there. And the price dropped by way more than the component cost of a PS2.
Well, I didn't mean that lack of BC made the PS3 more popular. :P My point was that, yes, any small annoyance caused by the removal was more than outweighed by the drop in price, meaning it's a very small factor at best.
And if people weren't buying $5-off used games at Gamestop, they wouldn't be offering it or making money hand over fist. And they are.
I mean, I personally don't know anyone who listens to Justin Bieber, but here we are.
cloudeagle on
Switch: 3947-4890-9293
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Brainiac 8Don't call me Shirley...Registered Userregular
Too many people equate "used games = GameStop". The implications here are a little further than that. Internet retailers, rental outlets, hell loaning a game to a friend is out of the question now. THAT is what will get people's attention, when your extended family can't bring Just Dance 5 over to your place to play on Thanksgiving or rent a game from RedBox and instead have to fork over 69.99 for every new game.
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
XSEED Games to Publish RPG Title Unchained Blades on PSP® (PlayStation®Portable) system and Nintendo 3DS™ in North America
Dungeon-Style Japanese RPG Title from Lunar and Grandia Series Veterans Coming as a Digital Download in 2012
Torrance, Calif., (March 28th, 2012) – XSEED Games, an independent-minded publisher, is pleased to announce today that the company will be bringing the dungeon-crawling RPG title, Unchained Blades, to gamers in North America on both the PSP® (PlayStation®Portable) system and the Nintendo 3DS™ hand-held system in 2012. Originally released as UnchainBlades ReXX in Japan last summer and developed by FuRyu, Unchained Blades is a role-playing game set in a monster-filled world, and was directed by Toshio Akashi of the Lunar series, while the game’s story was penned by Grandia series veteran Takashi Hino.
“We at XSEED Games are delighted with the opportunity to bring a title like Unchained Blades to North American gamers,” said Ken Berry, Director of Publishing at XSEED Games. “Unchained Blades represents a collaboration between some of Japan’s most high-profile developers and artists, offering a unique blend of classic RPG gameplay paired with an eclectic mix of art styles.”
Unchained Blades follows the story of the dragon emperor, Fang, who after being stripped of his powers by the goddess Clunea, embarks on a journey for revenge and to regain his true form. Arrogant and vengeful, Fang is joined in his quest by a cowardly golem prince, a shy medusa priestess, a young phoenix clan maiden, and many other mythical beings seeking to meet with the goddess.
Due to the collaborative nature of the game’s design, each of the 13 main characters was created by a different artist. The main character Fang was designed by Pako, most famous for his work on the Shining Force series, while other characters were fashioned by artists such as Toshiyuki Kubooka (Lunar), Shinichiro Otsuka (Summon Night), and Kazushi Hagiwara (Bastard!!), to name a few. As such, each character has its own distinct and signature style.
In Unchained Blades, players journey through the game with a party of up to four characters, moving through dungeons in a first-person perspective and engaging in turn-based combat along the way. Using the game’s unique “Unchain” system while in battle, players are able to try and convince monsters to follow them. If they are successful in using the Unchain system, the enemy monster will then join their party and help them in the future by blocking attacks or supplying players with special offensive abilities. Each character in the player’s four person party can hold up to four "followers", ensuring plenty of combat variety. The game has also been completely redubbed with new English voice-overs and boasts over 60 hours of gameplay.
Developed by FuRyu and published by XSEED Games, Unchained Blades is currently in production and will release as a digital download on the PSP system and Nintendo 3DS in 2012. XSEED Games will be sending out more product info in the coming months.
About XSEED Games:
XSEED Games was formed in November 2004 by a small group of industry veterans led by president Jun Iwasaki with a common vision: to cross pollinate the avid gaming cultures of Japan and North America. Delivering unique, innovative titles across multiple platforms and genres, XSEED Games is dedicated to publishing products that appeal and enrich the North American market. More information on XSEED Games can be found at http://www.xseedgames.com
Why am I posting this presser from an incredibly super niche game?
It's confirmation of digital releases for retail games on the 3DS.
Too many people equate "used games = GameStop". The implications here are a little further than that. Internet retailers, rental outlets, hell loaning a game to a friend is out of the question now. THAT is what will get people's attention, when your extended family can't bring Just Dance 5 over to your place to play on Thanksgiving or rent a game from RedBox and instead have to fork over 69.99 for every new game.
Services like Goozex and Gamefly will have to hope they can subsist on WiiU, 3DS and Vita.
Too many people equate "used games = GameStop". The implications here are a little further than that. Internet retailers, rental outlets, hell loaning a game to a friend is out of the question now. THAT is what will get people's attention, when your extended family can't bring Just Dance 5 over to your place to play on Thanksgiving or rent a game from RedBox and instead have to fork over 69.99 for every new game.
What percentage of the Used Game market does Gamestop control?
Cause I'd assume it close to the percentage of the general game market they control, which is fucking ridiculously huge last someone said it in this thread.
I'd say "used games = Gamestop" is a pretty damn good approximation.
Man, I hadn't even considered how locking games to accounts would curtail the rental market as well as the used market. Not that the rental market's necessarily booming, but I mean, it's still present.
I double dog dare you that there'll be some kind of 'licensing' deal, whereby the company who actually handles the used/rental games can pay the publisher/console company for either uninhibited copies of the game, or to constantly allow their copies to be activated and re-activated.
I mean, I only think they really hate the used market because they can't get a piece of it. And I think gutting it completely would get them far too negative of a PR reaction, just as in the examples that Allforce gave.
XSEED Games to Publish RPG Title Unchained Blades on PSP® (PlayStation®Portable) system and Nintendo 3DS™ in North America
Dungeon-Style Japanese RPG Title from Lunar and Grandia Series Veterans Coming as a Digital Download in 2012
Torrance, Calif., (March 28th, 2012) – XSEED Games, an independent-minded publisher, is pleased to announce today that the company will be bringing the dungeon-crawling RPG title, Unchained Blades, to gamers in North America on both the PSP® (PlayStation®Portable) system and the Nintendo 3DS™ hand-held system in 2012. Originally released as UnchainBlades ReXX in Japan last summer and developed by FuRyu, Unchained Blades is a role-playing game set in a monster-filled world, and was directed by Toshio Akashi of the Lunar series, while the game’s story was penned by Grandia series veteran Takashi Hino.
“We at XSEED Games are delighted with the opportunity to bring a title like Unchained Blades to North American gamers,” said Ken Berry, Director of Publishing at XSEED Games. “Unchained Blades represents a collaboration between some of Japan’s most high-profile developers and artists, offering a unique blend of classic RPG gameplay paired with an eclectic mix of art styles.”
Unchained Blades follows the story of the dragon emperor, Fang, who after being stripped of his powers by the goddess Clunea, embarks on a journey for revenge and to regain his true form. Arrogant and vengeful, Fang is joined in his quest by a cowardly golem prince, a shy medusa priestess, a young phoenix clan maiden, and many other mythical beings seeking to meet with the goddess.
Due to the collaborative nature of the game’s design, each of the 13 main characters was created by a different artist. The main character Fang was designed by Pako, most famous for his work on the Shining Force series, while other characters were fashioned by artists such as Toshiyuki Kubooka (Lunar), Shinichiro Otsuka (Summon Night), and Kazushi Hagiwara (Bastard!!), to name a few. As such, each character has its own distinct and signature style.
In Unchained Blades, players journey through the game with a party of up to four characters, moving through dungeons in a first-person perspective and engaging in turn-based combat along the way. Using the game’s unique “Unchain” system while in battle, players are able to try and convince monsters to follow them. If they are successful in using the Unchain system, the enemy monster will then join their party and help them in the future by blocking attacks or supplying players with special offensive abilities. Each character in the player’s four person party can hold up to four "followers", ensuring plenty of combat variety. The game has also been completely redubbed with new English voice-overs and boasts over 60 hours of gameplay.
Developed by FuRyu and published by XSEED Games, Unchained Blades is currently in production and will release as a digital download on the PSP system and Nintendo 3DS in 2012. XSEED Games will be sending out more product info in the coming months.
About XSEED Games:
XSEED Games was formed in November 2004 by a small group of industry veterans led by president Jun Iwasaki with a common vision: to cross pollinate the avid gaming cultures of Japan and North America. Delivering unique, innovative titles across multiple platforms and genres, XSEED Games is dedicated to publishing products that appeal and enrich the North American market. More information on XSEED Games can be found at http://www.xseedgames.com
Why am I posting this presser from an incredibly super niche game?
It's confirmation of digital releases for retail games on the 3DS.
Sadness. Old-school Dragon Quest-style. I prefer character avatars in some form. Alas, I'll try it out. Nice character designs though.
Too many people equate "used games = GameStop". The implications here are a little further than that. Internet retailers, rental outlets, hell loaning a game to a friend is out of the question now. THAT is what will get people's attention, when your extended family can't bring Just Dance 5 over to your place to play on Thanksgiving or rent a game from RedBox and instead have to fork over 69.99 for every new game.
What percentage of the Used Game market does Gamestop control?
Cause I'd assume it close to the percentage of the general game market they control, which is fucking ridiculously huge last someone said it in this thread.
I'd say "used games = Gamestop" is a pretty damn good approximation.
It's about as accurate as new game sales = Gamestop, since they also control a fucking ridiculously huge segment of that.
I really wonder if the console makers can afford to play a game of chicken with those guys.
Man, I hadn't even considered how locking games to accounts would curtail the rental market as well as the used market. Not that the rental market's necessarily booming, but I mean, it's still present.
I double dog dare you that there'll be some kind of 'licensing' deal, whereby the company who actually handles the used/rental games can pay the publisher/console company for either uninhibited copies of the game, or to constantly allow their copies to be activated and re-activated.
I mean, I only think they really hate the used market because they can't get a piece of it. And I think gutting it completely would get them far too negative of a PR reaction, just as in the examples that Allforce gave.
That's true - a sort of "certified pre-owned" deal could come up I suppose. Something where Sony/MS can say "We'll help you by making your store's used copies work just like they are new, but in return we want the price to be no lower than x% of new and we want a cut per copy that gets sold".
When Sony removed it from the PS3, sales actually went up.
Correlation <> Causation.
I'd say the price drop in general was far more important there. And the price dropped by way more than the component cost of a PS2.
Well, I didn't mean that lack of BC made the PS3 more popular. :P My point was that, yes, any small annoyance caused by the removal was more than outweighed by the drop in price, meaning it's a very small factor at best.
And if people weren't buying $5-off used games at Gamestop, they wouldn't be offering it or making money hand over fist. And they are.
I mean, I personally don't know anyone who listens to Justin Bieber, but here we are.
Untrue - I already demonstrated they could just as easily be making piles of money selling more volume of cheap titles for the same margins, which should be incredibly obvious.
Now Gamestop does pushed used versions of new games. Why not? They make a lot higher profit per copy that way then selling new. But I'm VERY skeptical they just sell tons of those $55 used titles in terms of volume. For one thing, if used inventory is piling up its almost surely a sign that demand for that game is not very high.
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Define "we"? I know several people (me included) that would have paid the pricing difference to have a PS3 with the PS2 BC still in the box. It is a major quality of life issue for a serious gamer, not just some passing "Well that would be nice". If I wanted to play all the games I own for systems in the past 12-15 years, and BC wasn't a "thing", I'd have 10+ consoles in my entertainment system. That's just dumb. BC is a quality of life feature, and a brand loyalty feature.
Microsoft was able to make BC (mostly) work without raising the cost of the 360 or having to jam an original XBox in there, why can't Sony do the same on the infinitely more powerful machine? (I actually know the reason for this, it has to do with the Emotion Engine's memory latency as compared to the PS3's, but I refuse to believe Sony isn't smart enough to figure it out).
Nah, not in the least.
But if you dare suggest making combat easier in RPGs so casuals can enjoy the plot... *shakes fist*
:P
Ohoh, see what I did there?
My 60 gig PS3's BC never gave me any problems.
The 360 BC was a different story, of course.
Or we could all just become PC gamers.
D. Only buy products which respect the "first sale doctrine".
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Sony seems pretty shit when it comes to properly supporting features in the first place. I have a Vita. It's been out for over a month and I still can't play PS1 games, use remote play for PS3 games, and Near has worked a grand total of once. Way to have your feature set ready for launch, guys.
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Forgiveness, perhaps I overreached with "we". But how much would you spend for BC? Most peg it at $50. What about $100?
And the 360's backward compatibility program was rough at best, and they quietly discontinued work on it. I mean, this is the list and they eventually just said "screw it, we're done." And this is with the Xbox and Xbox 360 both using what could be termed as standard PC hardware. I assume Microsoft just found the return wasn't worth employing a team to go through each Xbox game and make it work.
The Wii uses the same kludge as the original PS3 right? Just cram a GC inside the system?
Again, I'm not saying they shouldn't look into it. But they're also not demons for leaving it out. It's a reasonable decision on paper.
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Coming to PS4 - God of War: The Collections 3D, featuring new remastered 3d versions of the God of War Collection and God of War Origins now all on one disc.
More importantly, used games create price competition in the market. People cite Steam as a panacea for DD reduxing the price of games, but conveniently forget that Steam was built specifically to compete with getting games for fucking free.
Personally, I'm not willing to pay more than $5-10 to rent code until the platform holder decides to shut shit down, and I have zero faith I'll ever be able to 'buy' games for that price on DRM locked consoles.
Basically, only they forgot to put anything else in there.
Seriously? Have you walked into a GameStop recently?
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I'd say the price drop in general was far more important there. And the price dropped by way more than the component cost of a PS2.
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
Selective quoting wins the argument.
Many gamers use their prior generation console as a trade in towards the newest system. Gamestop's promotions are proof of this as they constantly do "trade in your ds for a bonus towards your 3ds", "trade in your ps2 towards a ps3 and get an extra $$", etc. When we get to the end of the PS4 generation and gamers can't do that - they can't recoup their investment at least in part to put towards the PS5 - will that slow down the launch of that next system?
And Sony even said in some interview (which I will try and find) that most of the price drop was from getting yields of the various Cell components up, and the cost of BR drives down.
I don't have a citation, no, but I'd be very, very surprised if this weren't true for the majority of the general public. Among the kinds of people on forums like this, yes, you're probably correct, but again - the biggest 'buy back' pushes are always soon after release, which are then resold for 5-10 dollars off.
Personally, the only time I ever buy used is in the latter case (months or years after release, and usually when a game is almost impossible to find new - as was the case with Demon's Souls during its first print run), but I don't think I'm in any way typical.
I don't think that's a secret at all.
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We don't know shit about used game sales distribution; we just know GameStop makes a shitload of money off of it. Considering that ALL their used games sell for high profit margins (the rate is the same whether the buy back an old title for $7 and sell it for $10 or buy a new release for $35 and sell it for $50) the fact that they make lots of profit tells us nothing at all about whether they're selling a few new titles or a fuckload of older titles.
I suspect it's not all that stacked towards brand new releases in terms of sales VOLUME. Most of their inventory is older, and they face supply constraints making brand new titles available used - which is why they offer incentives to get more of them trade in (which, incidentally, not only indicates lower volume of sales but also implies potentially a lower profit margin) .
And volume is really what matters to the consumer in the 'no used' discussion, too. It hurts consumers more if a larger number of them are now unable to buy a larger number of games used.
Which is why I think people won't care all that much.
They care about the price, not some sort of "right to sell used games" principal.
They might get pissed for a bit, but most people won't know enough about how the whole market works to get worked up over the whole thing.
Well, I didn't mean that lack of BC made the PS3 more popular. :P My point was that, yes, any small annoyance caused by the removal was more than outweighed by the drop in price, meaning it's a very small factor at best.
And if people weren't buying $5-off used games at Gamestop, they wouldn't be offering it or making money hand over fist. And they are.
I mean, I personally don't know anyone who listens to Justin Bieber, but here we are.
Is that even a secret anymore? I mean...really? O_o
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Why not? He's dreamy. Like a tiny, white Usher, Jr.
VIVA LA BIEBER!
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On these forums? I would hope not. In the general populace? Probably.
I was just saying it more in response to something agoaj said.
Ah, gottcha...it kind of amused me, really. I think that stopped being a secret to us before the Wii even launched. :P
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Why am I posting this presser from an incredibly super niche game?
It's confirmation of digital releases for retail games on the 3DS.
Services like Goozex and Gamefly will have to hope they can subsist on WiiU, 3DS and Vita.
What percentage of the Used Game market does Gamestop control?
Cause I'd assume it close to the percentage of the general game market they control, which is fucking ridiculously huge last someone said it in this thread.
I'd say "used games = Gamestop" is a pretty damn good approximation.
I double dog dare you that there'll be some kind of 'licensing' deal, whereby the company who actually handles the used/rental games can pay the publisher/console company for either uninhibited copies of the game, or to constantly allow their copies to be activated and re-activated.
I mean, I only think they really hate the used market because they can't get a piece of it. And I think gutting it completely would get them far too negative of a PR reaction, just as in the examples that Allforce gave.
Sadness. Old-school Dragon Quest-style. I prefer character avatars in some form. Alas, I'll try it out. Nice character designs though.
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I write about video games and stuff. It is fun. Sometimes.
HILARIOUS VOICE ACTING!
It's about as accurate as new game sales = Gamestop, since they also control a fucking ridiculously huge segment of that.
I really wonder if the console makers can afford to play a game of chicken with those guys.
That's true - a sort of "certified pre-owned" deal could come up I suppose. Something where Sony/MS can say "We'll help you by making your store's used copies work just like they are new, but in return we want the price to be no lower than x% of new and we want a cut per copy that gets sold".
Untrue - I already demonstrated they could just as easily be making piles of money selling more volume of cheap titles for the same margins, which should be incredibly obvious.
Now Gamestop does pushed used versions of new games. Why not? They make a lot higher profit per copy that way then selling new. But I'm VERY skeptical they just sell tons of those $55 used titles in terms of volume. For one thing, if used inventory is piling up its almost surely a sign that demand for that game is not very high.