in that only a child could be so trusting as to accept the idea of the Dragons as allies and friends, not enemies
That had nothing to do with Hiccup being a child or particularly trusting and everything to do with him being unusually thoughtful, observant and empathetic.
there is often an element in stories about children being unusually thoughtful, observant and empathetic
generally it's the empathetic and thoughtful parts which are linked to the idealism of youth
but anyway, it did seem to me when I watched How To Train Your Dragon that it was certainly a story about children and their nature and the relationship they have with adults and that included elements of children being more naive and willing to trust than adults. If we consider that Hiccup was unable to kill his dragon because he had not yet seen them kill enough of his friends to destroy any empathy for them, then his youth does factor in.
Again, no. Hiccup's youth is most important to the plot in the sense that he is of an age where any conflict between him and his father takes up most of his life. This is a pretty big thing, admittedly, but still, it has nothing to do with what you're talking about. His willingness to trust had nothing whatsoever to do with his age and everything with his own role as an outsider, an anomaly in an environment that rewards everything he is not and shakes its head at everything he is. Hiccup himself tells Astrid as much.
So yeah, Hiccup's youth may be important to the story, but absolutely not in the way you claim. The movie does not necessarily contradict you, as far as I can remember, but it absolutely doesn't support your interpretation, either.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
So it's a holiday version of the avengers
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Said Skull Man, inhaling deeply of the scorched flesh left in his wake
0
The GeekOh-Two Crew, OmeganautRegistered User, ClubPAregular
Speaking of Alec Baldwin, I heard an spot on NPR the other morning where he was telling people to not give money to NPR during their fund drive. It was pretty much in character as Jack Donaghy, but he introduced himself as Alec.
Speaking of Alec Baldwin, I heard an spot on NPR the other morning where he was telling people to not give money to NPR during their fund drive. It was pretty much in character as Jack Donaghy, but he introduced himself as Alec.
in that only a child could be so trusting as to accept the idea of the Dragons as allies and friends, not enemies
That had nothing to do with Hiccup being a child or particularly trusting and everything to do with him being unusually thoughtful, observant and empathetic.
there is often an element in stories about children being unusually thoughtful, observant and empathetic
generally it's the empathetic and thoughtful parts which are linked to the idealism of youth
but anyway, it did seem to me when I watched How To Train Your Dragon that it was certainly a story about children and their nature and the relationship they have with adults and that included elements of children being more naive and willing to trust than adults. If we consider that Hiccup was unable to kill his dragon because he had not yet seen them kill enough of his friends to destroy any empathy for them, then his youth does factor in.
Again, no. Hiccup's youth is most important to the plot in the sense that he is of an age where any conflict between him and his father takes up most of his life. This is a pretty big thing, admittedly, but still, it has nothing to do with what you're talking about. His willingness to trust had nothing whatsoever to do with his age and everything with his own role as an outsider, an anomaly in an environment that rewards everything he is not and shakes its head at everything he is. Hiccup himself tells Astrid as much.
So yeah, Hiccup's youth may be important to the story, but absolutely not in the way you claim. The movie does not necessarily contradict you, as far as I can remember, but it absolutely doesn't support your interpretation, either.
I got what I got from the movie
if you want to tell me that sorry, no, it isn't real, then that's your business.
Clearly your reading at the time was different
which is okay, because stories can mean different things to different people
So it's not absolutely not in the way I claim. What you are saying is important and a part of it, but it seems to me that the aspect of Hiccup's personality that is trusting and open to new ideas leads from his view of the world as a more innocent child than an adult.
0
PiptheFairFrequently not in boats.Registered Userregular
in that only a child could be so trusting as to accept the idea of the Dragons as allies and friends, not enemies
That had nothing to do with Hiccup being a child or particularly trusting and everything to do with him being unusually thoughtful, observant and empathetic.
there is often an element in stories about children being unusually thoughtful, observant and empathetic
generally it's the empathetic and thoughtful parts which are linked to the idealism of youth
but anyway, it did seem to me when I watched How To Train Your Dragon that it was certainly a story about children and their nature and the relationship they have with adults and that included elements of children being more naive and willing to trust than adults. If we consider that Hiccup was unable to kill his dragon because he had not yet seen them kill enough of his friends to destroy any empathy for them, then his youth does factor in.
Again, no. Hiccup's youth is most important to the plot in the sense that he is of an age where any conflict between him and his father takes up most of his life. This is a pretty big thing, admittedly, but still, it has nothing to do with what you're talking about. His willingness to trust had nothing whatsoever to do with his age and everything with his own role as an outsider, an anomaly in an environment that rewards everything he is not and shakes its head at everything he is. Hiccup himself tells Astrid as much.
So yeah, Hiccup's youth may be important to the story, but absolutely not in the way you claim. The movie does not necessarily contradict you, as far as I can remember, but it absolutely doesn't support your interpretation, either.
I got what I got from the movie
if you want to tell me that sorry, no, it isn't real, then that's your business.
Clearly your reading at the time was different
which is okay, because stories can mean different things to different people
So it's not absolutely not in the way I claim. What you are saying is important and a part of it, but it seems to me that the aspect of Hiccup's personality that is trusting and open to new ideas leads from his view of the world as a more innocent child than an adult.
Well again, I'm not saying that the movie contradicts your claims, I'm just saying that it doesn't support them in any way, which is true. You ascribe an innocent, trusting personality to Hiccup because he is a child. That's fine, by all means do so. The movie itself neither supports nor refutes this. Maybe that's just what children in fiction make you think about, and that's fine. But again, the movie's completely neutral on the matter.
Although actually, since it's a movie and there's nothing in the movie to support your claims, even if there's also nothing in it to oppose them, the very fact that nothing in the movie supports your claims is a pretty decent indicator of the fact that they probably didn't really mean for that to be a thing. If they did, they would've made a point of it. But they didn't. Seriously. They didn't.
And personally I don't think Hiccup is innocent and trusting at all, and if he is, again, it has nothing to do with his youth and everything with the fact that he is actually thoughtful, observant and somewhat isolated, socially. If Hiccup was innocent (he isn't, really) or trusting (he really isn't) because of his age, the other children would also have to be. But they're not. So it wouldn't be anything to do with his age, but with something unique to him instead.
I mean, I can sort of see your point, but your examples of his innocence and trusting nature are actually him being observant and thoughtful. And he's not innocent, he's a pessimist with a poor self-image and a strained relationship with his father. He thinks outside the box, yes, but that is a result of him being an outsider. He couldn't conform to the norm, so he had to develop skills and attitudes unique to him to cope with that fact. So while I can sort of see your point, I'm telling you that your point falls apart the moment you subject it to any kind of scrutiny.
0
TrippyJingMoses supposes his toeses are roses.But Moses supposes erroneously.Registered Userregular
in that only a child could be so trusting as to accept the idea of the Dragons as allies and friends, not enemies
That had nothing to do with Hiccup being a child or particularly trusting and everything to do with him being unusually thoughtful, observant and empathetic.
there is often an element in stories about children being unusually thoughtful, observant and empathetic
generally it's the empathetic and thoughtful parts which are linked to the idealism of youth
but anyway, it did seem to me when I watched How To Train Your Dragon that it was certainly a story about children and their nature and the relationship they have with adults and that included elements of children being more naive and willing to trust than adults. If we consider that Hiccup was unable to kill his dragon because he had not yet seen them kill enough of his friends to destroy any empathy for them, then his youth does factor in.
Again, no. Hiccup's youth is most important to the plot in the sense that he is of an age where any conflict between him and his father takes up most of his life. This is a pretty big thing, admittedly, but still, it has nothing to do with what you're talking about. His willingness to trust had nothing whatsoever to do with his age and everything with his own role as an outsider, an anomaly in an environment that rewards everything he is not and shakes its head at everything he is. Hiccup himself tells Astrid as much.
So yeah, Hiccup's youth may be important to the story, but absolutely not in the way you claim. The movie does not necessarily contradict you, as far as I can remember, but it absolutely doesn't support your interpretation, either.
I got what I got from the movie
if you want to tell me that sorry, no, it isn't real, then that's your business.
Clearly your reading at the time was different
which is okay, because stories can mean different things to different people
So it's not absolutely not in the way I claim. What you are saying is important and a part of it, but it seems to me that the aspect of Hiccup's personality that is trusting and open to new ideas leads from his view of the world as a more innocent child than an adult.
But the other kids were all gung-ho about killing dragons.
0
Kevin CristI make the devil hit his kneesand say the 'our father'Registered Userregular
in that only a child could be so trusting as to accept the idea of the Dragons as allies and friends, not enemies
That had nothing to do with Hiccup being a child or particularly trusting and everything to do with him being unusually thoughtful, observant and empathetic.
there is often an element in stories about children being unusually thoughtful, observant and empathetic
generally it's the empathetic and thoughtful parts which are linked to the idealism of youth
but anyway, it did seem to me when I watched How To Train Your Dragon that it was certainly a story about children and their nature and the relationship they have with adults and that included elements of children being more naive and willing to trust than adults. If we consider that Hiccup was unable to kill his dragon because he had not yet seen them kill enough of his friends to destroy any empathy for them, then his youth does factor in.
Again, no. Hiccup's youth is most important to the plot in the sense that he is of an age where any conflict between him and his father takes up most of his life. This is a pretty big thing, admittedly, but still, it has nothing to do with what you're talking about. His willingness to trust had nothing whatsoever to do with his age and everything with his own role as an outsider, an anomaly in an environment that rewards everything he is not and shakes its head at everything he is. Hiccup himself tells Astrid as much.
So yeah, Hiccup's youth may be important to the story, but absolutely not in the way you claim. The movie does not necessarily contradict you, as far as I can remember, but it absolutely doesn't support your interpretation, either.
I got what I got from the movie
if you want to tell me that sorry, no, it isn't real, then that's your business.
Clearly your reading at the time was different
which is okay, because stories can mean different things to different people
So it's not absolutely not in the way I claim. What you are saying is important and a part of it, but it seems to me that the aspect of Hiccup's personality that is trusting and open to new ideas leads from his view of the world as a more innocent child than an adult.
But the other kids were all gung-ho about killing dragons.
Those kids all wanted to be adults! They were emulating their elders!
in that only a child could be so trusting as to accept the idea of the Dragons as allies and friends, not enemies
That had nothing to do with Hiccup being a child or particularly trusting and everything to do with him being unusually thoughtful, observant and empathetic.
there is often an element in stories about children being unusually thoughtful, observant and empathetic
generally it's the empathetic and thoughtful parts which are linked to the idealism of youth
but anyway, it did seem to me when I watched How To Train Your Dragon that it was certainly a story about children and their nature and the relationship they have with adults and that included elements of children being more naive and willing to trust than adults. If we consider that Hiccup was unable to kill his dragon because he had not yet seen them kill enough of his friends to destroy any empathy for them, then his youth does factor in.
Again, no. Hiccup's youth is most important to the plot in the sense that he is of an age where any conflict between him and his father takes up most of his life. This is a pretty big thing, admittedly, but still, it has nothing to do with what you're talking about. His willingness to trust had nothing whatsoever to do with his age and everything with his own role as an outsider, an anomaly in an environment that rewards everything he is not and shakes its head at everything he is. Hiccup himself tells Astrid as much.
So yeah, Hiccup's youth may be important to the story, but absolutely not in the way you claim. The movie does not necessarily contradict you, as far as I can remember, but it absolutely doesn't support your interpretation, either.
I got what I got from the movie
if you want to tell me that sorry, no, it isn't real, then that's your business.
Clearly your reading at the time was different
which is okay, because stories can mean different things to different people
So it's not absolutely not in the way I claim. What you are saying is important and a part of it, but it seems to me that the aspect of Hiccup's personality that is trusting and open to new ideas leads from his view of the world as a more innocent child than an adult.
Well again, I'm not saying that the movie contradicts your claims, I'm just saying that it doesn't support them in any way, which is true. You ascribe an innocent, trusting personality to Hiccup because he is a child. That's fine, by all means do so. The movie itself neither supports nor refutes this. Maybe that's just what children in fiction make you think about, and that's fine. But again, the movie's completely neutral on the matter.
Although actually, since it's a movie and there's nothing in the movie to support your claims, even if there's also nothing in it to oppose them, the very fact that nothing in the movie supports your claims is a pretty decent indicator of the fact that they probably didn't really mean for that to be a thing. If they did, they would've made a point of it. But they didn't. Seriously. They didn't.
And personally I don't think Hiccup is innocent and trusting at all, and if he is, again, it has nothing to do with his youth and everything with the fact that he is actually thoughtful, observant and somewhat isolated, socially. If Hiccup was innocent (he isn't, really) or trusting (he really isn't) because of his age, the other children would also have to be. But they're not. So it wouldn't be anything to do with his age, but with something unique to him instead.
I mean, I can sort of see your point, but your examples of his innocence and trusting nature are actually him being observant and thoughtful. And he's not innocent, he's a pessimist with a poor self-image and a strained relationship with his father. He thinks outside the box, yes, but that is a result of him being an outsider. He couldn't conform to the norm, so he had to develop skills and attitudes unique to him to cope with that fact. So while I can sort of see your point, I'm telling you that your point falls apart the moment you subject it to any kind of scrutiny.
okay look
I like talking about things like this
I do
but you make me not like it because you are so incredibly condescending
Yeah, sorry about that. I literally realized something in mid-post and ended up switching gears a bit and yeah the result is unintentional condescension. Whoooooooops!
You should totally watch the movie again, though. "Childlike innocence and a trusting nature" isn't a thing that holds up to scrutiny in that movie and the it's a really simple, shallow and unoriginal interpretation of things. What they're actually doing in that movie is much fresher and more intelligent. Hey, you might end up liking the movie more if you watch it while trying to ignore the more clichéd interpretation and focus on the other one. Seriously. If you look at the movie as a tale of childlike innocence you miss out on pretty much ninety percent of the cool character stuff.
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The GeekOh-Two Crew, OmeganautRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited March 2012
Yeah, I'm not getting at all where this "wonders of childhood" thing is coming from in that movie.
Yeah, sorry about that. I literally realized something in mid-post and ended up switching gears a bit and yeah the result is unintentional condescension. Whoooooooops!
You should totally watch the movie again, though. "Childlike innocence and a trusting nature" isn't a thing that holds up to scrutiny in that movie and the it's a really simple, shallow and unoriginal interpretation of things. What they're actually doing in that movie is much fresher and more intelligent. Hey, you might end up liking the movie more if you watch it while trying to ignore the more clichéd interpretation and focus on the other one. Seriously. If you look at the movie as a tale of childlike innocence you miss out on pretty much ninety percent of the cool character stuff.
Well the only way I could see someone interpreting Hiccup getting along with Toothless because of his childlike innocence and trusting nature was if they watched the movie and went "oh, it's a kid going against the grain of society, and that's often because of their childlike innocence, so it's probably that" and then they don't bother to really analyze their relationship after that.
And that's a shallow way of looking at things. And the whole "childlike innocence" thing is a huge cliché, so it's unoriginal.
I didn't mean that as an insult. Criticism, sure, but not an insult.
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KalTorakOne way or another, they all end up inthe Undercity.Registered Userregular
i liked it better when you would just scream at people, at least reading that didn't make me cringe
anyway i'm not sure what to make of this film. the animation looks really nice in some places and really weird in others. i like all the different elements but in combination i find them somehow jarring
EVERYONE IS WRONG AND DUMB ABOUT MOVIES FOREVER THE END
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BigBearIf your life had a face, I would punch it.Registered Userregular
It's a good thing this movie's coming out in late November, it's like it's juuuuust close enough to Christmas for kids to be interested in a movie featuring Alec Baldwin as Russian Mafia Santa Claus. I just hope uptight parents don't bitch too much about the Cutlasses.
I can just hear them now. "Oooh, that Santa's too violent and scary! IT DOESN'T WOOORK THAT WAAAAAAAAAAY"
Posts
Correct!
Again, no. Hiccup's youth is most important to the plot in the sense that he is of an age where any conflict between him and his father takes up most of his life. This is a pretty big thing, admittedly, but still, it has nothing to do with what you're talking about. His willingness to trust had nothing whatsoever to do with his age and everything with his own role as an outsider, an anomaly in an environment that rewards everything he is not and shakes its head at everything he is. Hiccup himself tells Astrid as much.
So yeah, Hiccup's youth may be important to the story, but absolutely not in the way you claim. The movie does not necessarily contradict you, as far as I can remember, but it absolutely doesn't support your interpretation, either.
Team-up films are what sustain me
without them, I wither away
it is mostly a story about the oil industry
as upposed to team-up games, which you let wither away
Said Skull Man, inhaling deeply of the scorched flesh left in his wake
Also this movie looks baller, and one of the storyboard artists from Avatar: TLA worked on it, so sign me up.
Tumblr | Twitter PSN: misterdapper Av by Satellite_09
I got what I got from the movie
if you want to tell me that sorry, no, it isn't real, then that's your business.
Clearly your reading at the time was different
which is okay, because stories can mean different things to different people
So it's not absolutely not in the way I claim. What you are saying is important and a part of it, but it seems to me that the aspect of Hiccup's personality that is trusting and open to new ideas leads from his view of the world as a more innocent child than an adult.
sherk
they've managed to squeeze like 6 movies from that rock, is it out of blood yet?
pretty sure Puss In Boots is getting a sequel, but I might be making that up
not all that much
but I enjoyed it
And vikings!
It's the Skyrim of animated movies
partially because it's actually aesthetically appealing to me and sufficiently light hearted
it looks pretty
and I can understand why others would want to play it
not really grabbed myself, though
but I don't unequivocally love anything just because it has dragons in it
shit just look at Eragon
also I think that how to etc is good
just not, like
amazing
Well again, I'm not saying that the movie contradicts your claims, I'm just saying that it doesn't support them in any way, which is true. You ascribe an innocent, trusting personality to Hiccup because he is a child. That's fine, by all means do so. The movie itself neither supports nor refutes this. Maybe that's just what children in fiction make you think about, and that's fine. But again, the movie's completely neutral on the matter.
Although actually, since it's a movie and there's nothing in the movie to support your claims, even if there's also nothing in it to oppose them, the very fact that nothing in the movie supports your claims is a pretty decent indicator of the fact that they probably didn't really mean for that to be a thing. If they did, they would've made a point of it. But they didn't. Seriously. They didn't.
And personally I don't think Hiccup is innocent and trusting at all, and if he is, again, it has nothing to do with his youth and everything with the fact that he is actually thoughtful, observant and somewhat isolated, socially. If Hiccup was innocent (he isn't, really) or trusting (he really isn't) because of his age, the other children would also have to be. But they're not. So it wouldn't be anything to do with his age, but with something unique to him instead.
I mean, I can sort of see your point, but your examples of his innocence and trusting nature are actually him being observant and thoughtful. And he's not innocent, he's a pessimist with a poor self-image and a strained relationship with his father. He thinks outside the box, yes, but that is a result of him being an outsider. He couldn't conform to the norm, so he had to develop skills and attitudes unique to him to cope with that fact. So while I can sort of see your point, I'm telling you that your point falls apart the moment you subject it to any kind of scrutiny.
But the other kids were all gung-ho about killing dragons.
Reminded me more of League of Extraordinary Gentlemen.
Steam: YOU FACE JARAXXUS| Twitch.tv: CainLoveless
Those kids all wanted to be adults! They were emulating their elders!
okay look
I like talking about things like this
I do
but you make me not like it because you are so incredibly condescending
I know you try not to be but you still are
take that how you will
But I am finished with it
You should totally watch the movie again, though. "Childlike innocence and a trusting nature" isn't a thing that holds up to scrutiny in that movie and the it's a really simple, shallow and unoriginal interpretation of things. What they're actually doing in that movie is much fresher and more intelligent. Hey, you might end up liking the movie more if you watch it while trying to ignore the more clichéd interpretation and focus on the other one. Seriously. If you look at the movie as a tale of childlike innocence you miss out on pretty much ninety percent of the cool character stuff.
thanks
that's nice of you to say, it really is
Edit: fuck it
I am really not interested any more
And that's a shallow way of looking at things. And the whole "childlike innocence" thing is a huge cliché, so it's unoriginal.
I didn't mean that as an insult. Criticism, sure, but not an insult.
Oh shit, you know what a team-up film means.
Putting-the-team-together sequence.
i liked it better when you would just scream at people, at least reading that didn't make me cringe
anyway i'm not sure what to make of this film. the animation looks really nice in some places and really weird in others. i like all the different elements but in combination i find them somehow jarring
mostly i wish this was 2d but that's just me
I can just hear them now. "Oooh, that Santa's too violent and scary! IT DOESN'T WOOORK THAT WAAAAAAAAAAY"
also spex come on now
Tumblr | Twitter PSN: misterdapper Av by Satellite_09
I don't know which looks better, this or Wreck-It Ralph