The corporate world needs just the right kind of lazy asshole.
I honestly have no idea how an entire generation of people whose success is almost wholly ascribable to entitlements and unscrupulous tax laws can be so fixated on bootstraps.
It's like all of them look around at the gaping interiors of their McMansions bought with their earnings as an auto mechanic or steel millwright and say, "Yeah, this about right. I worked hard for this."
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AManFromEarthLet's get to twerk!The King in the SwampRegistered Userregular
The corporate world needs just the right kind of lazy asshole.
I honestly have no idea how an entire generation of people whose success is almost wholly ascribable to entitlements and unscrupulous tax laws can be so fixated on bootstraps.
It's like all of them look around at the gaping interiors of their McMansions bought with their earnings as an auto mechanic or steel millwright and say, "Yeah, this about right. I worked hard for this."
They grew up believing they were entitled to those handouts. See the Congresscritter who used the GI Bill to go to college without needing loans or extra financial aid and called kids lazy and cheap for wanting the same opportunity. Now arguable the GI Bill is an earned thing, but the principle still stands.
Ideally we would pay for poor kids who have earned it to go to college because in the end the increased tax revenue over that kids lifetime which we'll get from that is more than enough to pay for the program and any other damn thing we want but whatevs. Guvvmint can't create nuthin'
The corporate world needs just the right kind of lazy asshole.
There's a chilling amount of truth to this, in practical terms.
You don't complain and get all of your work done? Good, here's more. Keep your old title and pay though. As for the rest of the people who don't pull quite as much weight? Keeping that known quantity around is still easier and cheaper than finding and training a new employee.
Businesses are amoral. This isn't a judgment, really, it's just a logical assessment of their aims. They aren't in it to make the employees nearer to the ground rich or happy. They're about maximization of utility. Your hard work will only pay off if it is convenient for people more powerful than you to acknowledge it in such a way that happens to be profitable for you too.
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
The corporate world needs just the right kind of lazy asshole.
There's a chilling amount of truth to this, in practical terms.
You don't complain and get all of your work done? Good, here's more. Keep your old title and pay though. As for the rest of the people who don't pull quite as much weight? Keeping that known quantity around is still easier and cheaper than finding and training a new employee.
Businesses are amoral. This isn't a judgment, really, it's just a logical assessment of their aims. They aren't in it to make the employees nearer to the ground rich or happy. They're about maximization of utility. Your hard work will only pay off if it is convenient for people more powerful than you to acknowledge it in such a way that happens to be profitable for you too.
To some extent, I blame the education system for that. From birth, we're all trained, basically, to follow orders. We're guided by adults- first our parents, and then teachers- who tell us what to do, because they have our best interests at heart, and the best thing we can do is simply follow their advice. We praise kids endlessly for following directions, and take extensive measures to correct children who are "troublesome". Then the kids grow up and go to work, and it's like putting tame animals into the wild- we're totally unprepared for a situation where people do NOT have our best interests at heart, and they're actively lying to us to exploit us as much as possible.
It comes back to what I said about the generation as a whole being incredibly selfish. On their watch the education they got for free or a small (relativity) amount of money has now become prohibitively expensive, the jobs they walked into out of highschool now require a degree and/or years of experience, the houses they were able to buy with modest incomes when they were young are now priced out of reach for anyone but them, the post war wealth they grew up in has been spent unsustainably leaving massive debt, the list goes on.
Personally I don't think it matters if they understand what they've done to us or not, the world will be better off once they're all dead.
Point of reference: I had an interview last week for a fulltime retail scutwork job paying $10.50 an hour. The job listing was up for 14 days. In that time, it received 330 applications. I only got the interview because I pretty much showed up and said "INTERVIEW ME NOW." Then they told me I had a job. Then they told me I needed a second interview, this week. After waiting all week to hear about when I was supposed to show up for this interview, I went back over this afternoon and asked why I hadn't been contacted and that I felt kind of jerked around, and the manager told me that he didn't like my attitude for going up there and he wasn't sure he wanted to hire me anymore.
He is, unsurprisingly, of prime Boomer age, based on his appearance and demeanor.
Something something the unfaithful husband suspected his wife was cheating on him.
The corporate world needs just the right kind of lazy asshole.
No fucking joke. God forbid you have any sort of self-respect. But naturally the response I get from my parents (and even some other people my age, to whom I no longer really speak much) is that I "just don't want it enough." No, fuck you, I stay up until 3AM every night so I can fall the fuck asleep as soon as my head hits the pillow so I don't have to stare at the ceiling and ponder what a colossal piece of shit I am for being unemployed and living on my parents' generosity at 27. I want this shit more than anything else in my life. I just don't really have much hope of getting it anymore.
The solution to this is to simply repeal Medicare.
No government healthcare for us? Fine, then, no government healthcare for you, either.
I would have trouble really entertaining the idea of doing this to my grandparents.
I wouldn't. "You want to financially and socially cripple me? Fine, but don't expect me to work for the next 20 years to pay for your hospital bills/pension." Seems like a fair enough arrangement to me.
Fun fact: people well under the age of retirement, namely those people with disabilities so severe they prevent them from getting regular employment, can qualify for and receive both Social Security and Medicare benefits.
It comes back to what I said about the generation as a whole being incredibly selfish. On their watch the education they got for free or a small (relativity) amount of money has now become prohibitively expensive, the jobs they walked into out of highschool now require a degree and/or years of experience, the houses they were able to buy with modest incomes when they were young are now priced out of reach for anyone but them, the post war wealth they grew up in has been spent unsustainably leaving massive debt, the list goes on.
Personally I don't think it matters if they understand what they've done to us or not, the world will be better off once they're all dead.
Point of reference: I had an interview last week for a fulltime retail scutwork job paying $10.50 an hour. The job listing was up for 14 days. In that time, it received 330 applications. I only got the interview because I pretty much showed up and said "INTERVIEW ME NOW." Then they told me I had a job. Then they told me I needed a second interview, this week. After waiting all week to hear about when I was supposed to show up for this interview, I went back over this afternoon and asked why I hadn't been contacted and that I felt kind of jerked around, and the manager told me that he didn't like my attitude for going up there and he wasn't sure he wanted to hire me anymore.
He is, unsurprisingly, of prime Boomer age, based on his appearance and demeanor.
Something something the unfaithful husband suspected his wife was cheating on him.
The corporate world needs just the right kind of lazy asshole.
No fucking joke. God forbid you have any sort of self-respect. But naturally the response I get from my parents (and even some other people my age, to whom I no longer really speak much) is that I "just don't want it enough." No, fuck you, I stay up until 3AM every night so I can fall the fuck asleep as soon as my head hits the pillow so I don't have to stare at the ceiling and ponder what a colossal piece of shit I am for being unemployed and living on my parents' generosity at 27. I want this shit more than anything else in my life. I just don't really have much hope of getting it anymore.
All I can say is I feel your pain, being in the same situation. It's made worse considering my mother's cancer and the fact that my parents are so broken and poor and depressed that I spend a good amount of my time taking care of them and their house, well my grandmother's house, so that they're not living in filth. It's hard to do this but still feel like a failure deep down. I don't know if I could even try to strike out on my own again, it's gotten to the point where my parents actually need me here or else they wouldn't be able to do this on their own. In otherwords, fml.
But seriously, they all but did it already, so it would not be surprising to see them literally say 'NO SOCIAL SECURITY FOR ANYBODY AFTER US, FUCK YOU ALL.'
They're basically already doing that.
Not really. The absolute worst case scenario for Social Security is that benefits are roughly 80% of what they otherwise would be around 2040. Bearing in mind that its value will continue to rise with CPI (following chained CPI would be best and increase the amount of benefits to ~93% on its own) so it isn't 80% of what senior's get now, but 80% of what our hypothetical old asses would otherwise be getting. And that's assuming everything goes to hell rather than one of the numerous rather easy solutions don't get picked between now and then. (Chained CPI growth + 1.3% rate hike over 30 years + raising the tax cap to $250k)
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HacksawJ. Duggan Esq.Wrestler at LawRegistered Userregular
It comes back to what I said about the generation as a whole being incredibly selfish. On their watch the education they got for free or a small (relativity) amount of money has now become prohibitively expensive, the jobs they walked into out of highschool now require a degree and/or years of experience, the houses they were able to buy with modest incomes when they were young are now priced out of reach for anyone but them, the post war wealth they grew up in has been spent unsustainably leaving massive debt, the list goes on.
Personally I don't think it matters if they understand what they've done to us or not, the world will be better off once they're all dead.
Point of reference: I had an interview last week for a fulltime retail scutwork job paying $10.50 an hour. The job listing was up for 14 days. In that time, it received 330 applications. I only got the interview because I pretty much showed up and said "INTERVIEW ME NOW." Then they told me I had a job. Then they told me I needed a second interview, this week. After waiting all week to hear about when I was supposed to show up for this interview, I went back over this afternoon and asked why I hadn't been contacted and that I felt kind of jerked around, and the manager told me that he didn't like my attitude for going up there and he wasn't sure he wanted to hire me anymore.
He is, unsurprisingly, of prime Boomer age, based on his appearance and demeanor.
Something something the unfaithful husband suspected his wife was cheating on him.
Not sure I get the reference.
It's from something I heard in a Psych course back in college. It basically boiled down to people tend to project their greatest reservations about themselves onto others. So in your case, the Boomer who deep down may be ashamed of his ingrained entitlement complex suspects you of being just as, if not more entitled than he is.
The solution to this is to simply repeal Medicare.
No government healthcare for us? Fine, then, no government healthcare for you, either.
I would have trouble really entertaining the idea of doing this to my grandparents.
I wouldn't. "You want to financially and socially cripple me? Fine, but don't expect me to work for the next 20 years to pay for your hospital bills/pension." Seems like a fair enough arrangement to me.
Fun fact: people well under the age of retirement, namely those people with disabilities so severe they prevent them from getting regular employment, can qualify for and receive both Social Security and Medicare benefits.
Are you suggesting it's impossible to provide for those people without also crippling ourselves economically trying to provide for the boomer generations pensions? No one has had it easier than they did to become independently wealthy and now thanks to them no one else will. So no, fuck you boomers, I don't want to pay for your pensions.
The solution to this is to simply repeal Medicare.
No government healthcare for us? Fine, then, no government healthcare for you, either.
I would have trouble really entertaining the idea of doing this to my grandparents.
I wouldn't. "You want to financially and socially cripple me? Fine, but don't expect me to work for the next 20 years to pay for your hospital bills/pension." Seems like a fair enough arrangement to me.
Fun fact: people well under the age of retirement, namely those people with disabilities so severe they prevent them from getting regular employment, can qualify for and receive both Social Security and Medicare benefits.
Are you suggesting it's impossible to provide for those people without also crippling ourselves economically trying to provide for the boomer generations pensions? No one has had it easier than they did to become independently wealthy and now thanks to them no one else will. So no, fuck you boomers, I don't want to pay for your pensions.
Yeah, it's much easier to blame an entire generation instead of, oh I don't know, government policies. Especially when you can swallow the right-wing talking point that paying for the Boomers' retirement will "cripple ourselves economically" when there are plenty of solutions that keep social welfare programs like Medicare and Social Security solvent and effective through the Boomer retirement bump.
I proceeded to tell the guy, essentially, that he was an unprofessional cunt.
Fuck this world.
I left uni and spent a mere 9 months looking before I got a job. The middle 4-5 months were really really bad. It felt like forever. I can only wish you the very best of luck
Yeah, it's much easier to blame an entire generation instead of, oh I don't know, government policies. Especially when you can swallow the right-wing talking point that paying for the Boomers' retirement will "cripple ourselves economically" when there are plenty of solutions that keep social welfare programs like Medicare and Social Security solvent and effective through the Boomer retirement bump.
Unfunded state pension schemes always have and always will be ponzi schemes backed by the taxpayer. I guess I can just about see how they came to pass - based on the demographics of the time - but with hindsight they are pants on head retarded.
The solution to this is to simply repeal Medicare.
No government healthcare for us? Fine, then, no government healthcare for you, either.
I would have trouble really entertaining the idea of doing this to my grandparents.
I wouldn't. "You want to financially and socially cripple me? Fine, but don't expect me to work for the next 20 years to pay for your hospital bills/pension." Seems like a fair enough arrangement to me.
Fun fact: people well under the age of retirement, namely those people with disabilities so severe they prevent them from getting regular employment, can qualify for and receive both Social Security and Medicare benefits.
Are you suggesting it's impossible to provide for those people without also crippling ourselves economically trying to provide for the boomer generations pensions? No one has had it easier than they did to become independently wealthy and now thanks to them no one else will. So no, fuck you boomers, I don't want to pay for your pensions.
Yeah, it's much easier to blame an entire generation instead of, oh I don't know, government policies. Especially when you can swallow the right-wing talking point that paying for the Boomers' retirement will "cripple ourselves economically" when there are plenty of solutions that keep social welfare programs like Medicare and Social Security solvent and effective through the Boomer retirement bump.
Yeah I will blame them. At every turn they've elected people who've favored them and fucked us over. They've removed every single advantage they had that allowed them to get where they are today. Now I'm expected to pay my pittance of a wage in tax to top up their private pensions with a state one too? Why the hell should I?
The solution to this is to simply repeal Medicare.
No government healthcare for us? Fine, then, no government healthcare for you, either.
I would have trouble really entertaining the idea of doing this to my grandparents.
I wouldn't. "You want to financially and socially cripple me? Fine, but don't expect me to work for the next 20 years to pay for your hospital bills/pension." Seems like a fair enough arrangement to me.
Fun fact: people well under the age of retirement, namely those people with disabilities so severe they prevent them from getting regular employment, can qualify for and receive both Social Security and Medicare benefits.
Are you suggesting it's impossible to provide for those people without also crippling ourselves economically trying to provide for the boomer generations pensions? No one has had it easier than they did to become independently wealthy and now thanks to them no one else will. So no, fuck you boomers, I don't want to pay for your pensions.
Yeah, it's much easier to blame an entire generation instead of, oh I don't know, government policies. Especially when you can swallow the right-wing talking point that paying for the Boomers' retirement will "cripple ourselves economically" when there are plenty of solutions that keep social welfare programs like Medicare and Social Security solvent and effective through the Boomer retirement bump.
The Boomers already got their retirement in the form of ridiculously low taxes. Fuck 'em.
It's nice to see that destroying the last remnants of the New Deal and Great Society safety nets has been successfully sold to cranky young liberals.
And by "nice", I mean "incredibly sad and tragic".
It does remain the fucking height of hilarity that the same folks who bash the Boomers for being entitled and self-centered then turn around and say things like "Why should I pay for anyone else? Fuck them, I'm only looking out for me!"
It's nice to see that destroying the last remnants of the New Deal and Great Society safety nets has been successfully sold to cranky young liberals.
And by "nice", I mean "incredibly sad and tragic".
It does remain the fucking height of hilarity that the same folks who bash the Boomers for being entitled and self-centered then turn around and say things like "Why should I pay for anyone else? Fuck them, I'm only looking out for me!"
No, I'm saying why should I pay to make people who are richer than I will ever be to have slightly more money in retirement than they otherwise would have? My heart fucking bleeds for them really, you know while I'm sitting here wondering if I'm going to be back in long term unemployment in 6 months because it's become so fucking difficult to get or keep a job.
It's nice to see that destroying the last remnants of the New Deal and Great Society safety nets has been successfully sold to cranky young liberals.
And by "nice", I mean "incredibly sad and tragic".
It does remain the fucking height of hilarity that the same folks who bash the Boomers for being entitled and self-centered then turn around and say things like "Why should I pay for anyone else? Fuck them, I'm only looking out for me!"
No, I'm saying why should I pay to make people who are richer than I will ever be to have slightly more money in retirement than they otherwise would have? My heart fucking bleeds for them really, you know while I'm sitting here wondering if I'm going to be back in long term unemployment in 6 months because it's become so fucking difficult to get or keep a job.
The reason you pay taxes for the benefit of others (as well as yourself) is because of the social contract that's at the core of a representative democratic government.
If you really think that the way to improve your economic situation would be to repeal Medicare, then uh, good luck with that. If you think that an economic downturn is the right time to stop paying benefits to retirees, then, uh, okay, explain to me why more poverty is better than less poverty.
I think the idea is a moratorium on Medicare, not an outright repeal.
Then they die, problem solved.
They already collected their pensions by not paying taxes for twenty years. So yes, seriously, fuck 'em. I don't think most of us want to dismantle the social safety net that was established. We want to take it away from the people that sold that social safety net in exchange for low taxes for the bulk of their working lives, and are now trying to roll it up and take it with them.
I think the idea is a moratorium on Medicare, not an outright repeal.
Then they die, problem solved.
They already collected their pensions by not paying taxes for twenty years. So yes, seriously, fuck 'em. I don't think most of us want to dismantle the social safety net that was established. We want to take it away from the people that sold that social safety net in exchange for low taxes for the bulk of their working lives, and are now trying to roll it up and take it with them.
But keep it for the rest of us.
Or...something.
So wait, you want to keep the social safety net for you, but arbitrarily end it for old people because they somehow magically didn't pay taxes for twenty years?
Uh, yeah, nobody ever gets to mock the Boomers for having dumb ideas based on self-centered entitlement ever again.
Are you saying it isn't hypocritical that they want to benefit from a social safety net that they made damn sure they didn't have to pay for, while simultaneously denying it to our generation who will have to pay for it?
Are you saying it isn't hypocritical that they want to benefit from a social safety net that they made damn sure they didn't have to pay for, while simultaneously denying it to our generation who will have to pay for it?
Oh, it's hypocritical.
Just like saying "I don't want to pay taxes to support those entitled old bastards who should have gotten rich in the '80s, because they want to take away the social safety net from us" is hypocritical.
It remains a horrible idea for fewer people to be on Medicare or for fewer people to get Social Security.
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gavindelThe reason all your softwareis brokenRegistered Userregular
My main sticking point is not that its hard to get a job or pay for a family - times are tough, sucks to be us, deal with it and all.
What boils my blood is the vast gap between Boomer generation advice and current reality.
Examples include:
"Your job is only working you part time? Just go get another, and work two jobs!"
"Why don't you just walk into the store, shake hands with the manager, and say you want to work there?"
"A college degree guarantees a good job."
"What are you whining about, cost of ______? I paid for my ______ off a minimum wage salary!"
The economic and cultural reality has shifted so far outside their own expertise that it renders their tried and true techniques laughable in a lot of cases. Its very hard to beat into them that the jobs they got for a firm handshake and a smile (and implicitly, being a white male, in the cases i know about) and learned on the job now require a degree, previous experience, and defeating a 100 other equally desperate applicants...all to make less pay than in 1970 against higher costs.
Are you saying it isn't hypocritical that they want to benefit from a social safety net that they made damn sure they didn't have to pay for, while simultaneously denying it to our generation who will have to pay for it?
Oh, it's hypocritical.
Just like saying "I don't want to pay taxes to support those entitled old bastards who should have gotten rich in the '80s, because they want to take away the social safety net from us" is hypocritical.
It remains a horrible idea for fewer people to be on Medicare or for fewer people to get Social Security.
So, what you're saying is we shouldn't feel bad about being shafted left right and center by the boomer edited social contract because we have the moral high ground? No, fuck that. There is absolutely nothing hypocritical about saying "you didn't pay for it so you don't get to use it".
Yeah this was, and is, toxic advice. There's value to college, on a number of levels, but good God is that not an investment to be made flippantly, or advice to be given without a hell of a lot of asterisks bolted to it. I don't know about today, but authority figures during my high school experience were very eager to simplify the issue of your economic well-being to a difference between "college" and "no college."
The chilling thing is that the message reeks of a sort of reductive slogan-like packaging, which suggests a belief that 17 and 18 year-olds are not well-equipped to understand their future planning with much greater nuance. And yet, it is those same apparently ignorant teenagers who will be expected to spend much of their adult lives experiencing the consequences of the debt they accrue.
Are you saying it isn't hypocritical that they want to benefit from a social safety net that they made damn sure they didn't have to pay for, while simultaneously denying it to our generation who will have to pay for it?
Oh, it's hypocritical.
Just like saying "I don't want to pay taxes to support those entitled old bastards who should have gotten rich in the '80s, because they want to take away the social safety net from us" is hypocritical.
It remains a horrible idea for fewer people to be on Medicare or for fewer people to get Social Security.
So, what you're saying is we shouldn't feel bad about being shafted left right and center by the boomer edited social contract because we have the moral high ground? No, fuck that. There is absolutely nothing hypocritical about saying "you didn't pay for it so you don't get to use it".
Except the idea that the Boomers, as a whole, have not paid into Medicare and Social Security has no basis in reality. I'm pretty sure they've paid more than younger cohorts for any number of reasons, more years in the workforce being just one of them.
The idea that youthful resentment of the impact of decades of regressive governmental economic policy is to destroy what remains of the social safety net (and yes, a "temporary" cessation of Medicare or Social Security payments would do just that, if only by shredding whatever confidence people felt in the government being able to deliver on the promises those social safety net programs entail) still remains profoundly, tragically stupid.
Although it'll be hilarious when all the PA forumite whippernsappers near retirement and all the bitter, disillusioned 20-somethings claim you fucked everything up for them and because you got to pirate MP3s for free and played too much World of Warcraft and didn't vote for Nader and paid too little in taxes you deserve to not get any Medicare or Social Security.
Eh, it's true more than it's false. Obviously the lifetime earning figures that get bandied around are massive generalities, but (at least assuming student loans don't become any more exploitative than they already are) college is still a good financial deal for most people.
It's not like there's less downward pressure on the job market for people without postsecondary education.
God, these threads are always so depressing.
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
The corporate world needs just the right kind of lazy asshole.
I honestly have no idea how an entire generation of people whose success is almost wholly ascribable to entitlements and unscrupulous tax laws can be so fixated on bootstraps.
It's like all of them look around at the gaping interiors of their McMansions bought with their earnings as an auto mechanic or steel millwright and say, "Yeah, this about right. I worked hard for this."
Well they did work hard, it was just that back then working hard really paid of big. Said entitlements and tax laws saw to that. Its just that all they saw was their hard work, not the massive investments made to give them an chance to get paid.
That is why they can't really wrap their heads around the fact that while we do work hard, in fact probably harder then them, it hasn't paid of for us. When we complain about lack of help, they see lazy entitled kids.
So in their mind they earned their McMansions.
The sky was full of stars, every star an exploding ship. One of ours.
How much of this is simply because the wealthy have gotten relatively wealthier, and wealthy people tend to be old?
Well the wealthy people are the ones who actually profited off of the pain and suffering but the remainder of the boomers basically stuck their hands over their ears singing "Capitalism! La la la! Free market do do do! I can't hear the sound of poverty de de de!" and fiddled while the wealthy burned Rome to the ground. I had an even older person, who upon being presented with direct evidence of the economy being in the shitter (pay stagnation, rising costs, low social mobility, etc.) basically told me "I refuse to be against a system that has guaranteed my prosperity for X years! It just needs some small changes if that! Don't mess with capitalism you radical!" after which point I basically called him a selfish monster and ended the discussion. Yes, I called a 72 or-so year old man a selfish monster.
If the best you can come up with against someone who's patently ignorant is to yell back at him, "Yeah? Well there's BOOKS, and they say you're WRONG!"
Then honestly you're not coming out of this looking great either.
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Giggles_FunsworthBlight on DiscourseBay Area SprawlRegistered Userregular
The solution to this is to simply repeal Medicare.
No government healthcare for us? Fine, then, no government healthcare for you, either.
Reading through this thread and this really resonated with me. Posted this yesterday on Facebook when I was reading about what was going on with the Healthcare debate in the Supreme Court:
"Oh hey, just found out the Supreme Court struck down the Healthcare bill. Fuck this country moving to Europe as soon as I can swing it financially."
Today my uncle responded with this:
"Don't let the door hit you on your sorry, self-serving, intitlement ass on your way out. There is a reason people from all over world want to come here. Figure it out!"
Responded with this, he has yet to respond, not sure if he'll be able to come up with anything really:
"So I suppose you aren't going to make any use of Medicare in a couple of years?"
I liked my uncle a lot more before he got a Facebook and started getting all up in my politics. He is a rad dude, nice guy for the most part, rebuilds top fuel dragsters and races them, we have a good time whenever we hang out; but for some reason he's a neocon asshole and I just don't get it.
Had a lot of problems with my dad when I was out of work from 2008-2010. Then he started trying to find a new job in late 2009 and he got a lot nicer to me. Step mom's still a bitch though. Lately they've both become Obama supporters and we talk about a need for healthcare reform and it's kind of hilarious considering they used to be super Republican.
I wouldn't want to get rid of Medicare because most if not all middle-class retirees wouldn't be able to cope financially, but I don't get how more of them don't see that there's no fucking difference between Medicare and Single Payer Healthcare for everyone. It's fucking stupid.
"Oh hey, just found out the Supreme Court struck down the Healthcare bill. Fuck this country moving to Europe as soon as I can swing it financially."
Today my uncle responded with this:
"Don't let the door hit you on your sorry, self-serving, intitlement ass on your way out. There is a reason people from all over world want to come here. Figure it out!"
Because we're one of the only first world nations that lets people in without in-demand professional skills and/or a big pile of money?
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
Eh, it's true more than it's false. Obviously the lifetime earning figures that get bandied around are massive generalities, but (at least assuming student loans don't become any more exploitative than they already are) college is still a good financial deal for most people.
It's not like there's less downward pressure on the job market for people without postsecondary education.
God, these threads are always so depressing.
Right, I think it's less that no higher education is preferable, and more that the way we think about post-secondary ed could be healthier. For instance, depending on where you're from or who you talk to, I think there's a certain amount of stigma attached to going for low-cost vocational training or other associate's style program. College is often sold to people as a four-year "experience" perhaps as much (if not more than) as a practical tool to open up your future, but going for that college experience (especially at a flashier private school) and grabbing a liberal arts BA will almost certainly put you way behind the curve in terms of debt while not necessarily making it any easier to get a job than cheaper alternatives.
The solution to this is to simply repeal Medicare.
No government healthcare for us? Fine, then, no government healthcare for you, either.
Reading through this thread and this really resonated with me. Posted this yesterday on Facebook when I was reading about what was going on with the Healthcare debate in the Supreme Court:
"Oh hey, just found out the Supreme Court struck down the Healthcare bill. Fuck this country moving to Europe as soon as I can swing it financially."
Today my uncle responded with this:
"Don't let the door hit you on your sorry, self-serving, intitlement ass on your way out. There is a reason people from all over world want to come here. Figure it out!"
Responded with this, he has yet to respond, not sure if he'll be able to come up with anything really:
"So I suppose you aren't going to make any use of Medicare in a couple of years?"
I liked my uncle a lot more before he got a Facebook and started getting all up in my politics. He is a rad dude, nice guy for the most part, rebuilds top fuel dragsters and races them, we have a good time whenever we hang out; but for some reason he's a neocon asshole and I just don't get it.
Had a lot of problems with my dad when I was out of work from 2008-2010. Then he started trying to find a new job in late 2009 and he got a lot nicer to me. Step mom's still a bitch though. Lately they've both become Obama supporters and we talk about a need for healthcare reform and it's kind of hilarious considering they used to be super Republican.
I wouldn't want to get rid of Medicare because most if not all middle-class retirees wouldn't be able to cope financially, but I don't get how more of them don't see that there's no fucking difference between Medicare and Single Payer Healthcare for everyone. It's fucking stupid.
Off topic, but I was under the impression SCOTUS hasn't ruled on that yet. Did I miss something?
Off topic, but I was under the impression SCOTUS hasn't ruled on that yet. Did I miss something?
No, the ruling is in June. I don't know why he would think that, other than that some people are speculating that there's a decent chance they'll strike down the mandate and take the whole law with it.
I am about to finish the AFROTC, and when I graduate I'm going to become a Cyber Ops Officer. Except......
The Air Force just hit the graduating class with "we have no money" so me and a good chunk of my friends have to wait up to a year to start active duty. So much for that fabled "career right after graduation."
Now I'm scrambling for some kind of non-trivial job after graduation. At this point I don't think I'll ever marry or have children.
Posts
The corporate world needs just the right kind of lazy asshole.
I honestly have no idea how an entire generation of people whose success is almost wholly ascribable to entitlements and unscrupulous tax laws can be so fixated on bootstraps.
It's like all of them look around at the gaping interiors of their McMansions bought with their earnings as an auto mechanic or steel millwright and say, "Yeah, this about right. I worked hard for this."
They grew up believing they were entitled to those handouts. See the Congresscritter who used the GI Bill to go to college without needing loans or extra financial aid and called kids lazy and cheap for wanting the same opportunity. Now arguable the GI Bill is an earned thing, but the principle still stands.
Ideally we would pay for poor kids who have earned it to go to college because in the end the increased tax revenue over that kids lifetime which we'll get from that is more than enough to pay for the program and any other damn thing we want but whatevs. Guvvmint can't create nuthin'
There's a chilling amount of truth to this, in practical terms.
You don't complain and get all of your work done? Good, here's more. Keep your old title and pay though. As for the rest of the people who don't pull quite as much weight? Keeping that known quantity around is still easier and cheaper than finding and training a new employee.
Businesses are amoral. This isn't a judgment, really, it's just a logical assessment of their aims. They aren't in it to make the employees nearer to the ground rich or happy. They're about maximization of utility. Your hard work will only pay off if it is convenient for people more powerful than you to acknowledge it in such a way that happens to be profitable for you too.
Says all the people making $400k a year, getting free insurance, and a paid-for staff and security . . . from the government.
Actually this discussion reminds me of an opinion piece I saw today about the aftermath of the London riots.
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2012/03/2012328121227451432.html
Not sure I get the reference.
No fucking joke. God forbid you have any sort of self-respect. But naturally the response I get from my parents (and even some other people my age, to whom I no longer really speak much) is that I "just don't want it enough." No, fuck you, I stay up until 3AM every night so I can fall the fuck asleep as soon as my head hits the pillow so I don't have to stare at the ceiling and ponder what a colossal piece of shit I am for being unemployed and living on my parents' generosity at 27. I want this shit more than anything else in my life. I just don't really have much hope of getting it anymore.
Fun fact: people well under the age of retirement, namely those people with disabilities so severe they prevent them from getting regular employment, can qualify for and receive both Social Security and Medicare benefits.
Not really. The absolute worst case scenario for Social Security is that benefits are roughly 80% of what they otherwise would be around 2040. Bearing in mind that its value will continue to rise with CPI (following chained CPI would be best and increase the amount of benefits to ~93% on its own) so it isn't 80% of what senior's get now, but 80% of what our hypothetical old asses would otherwise be getting. And that's assuming everything goes to hell rather than one of the numerous rather easy solutions don't get picked between now and then. (Chained CPI growth + 1.3% rate hike over 30 years + raising the tax cap to $250k)
It's from something I heard in a Psych course back in college. It basically boiled down to people tend to project their greatest reservations about themselves onto others. So in your case, the Boomer who deep down may be ashamed of his ingrained entitlement complex suspects you of being just as, if not more entitled than he is.
I proceeded to tell the guy, essentially, that he was an unprofessional cunt.
Fuck this world.
Are you suggesting it's impossible to provide for those people without also crippling ourselves economically trying to provide for the boomer generations pensions? No one has had it easier than they did to become independently wealthy and now thanks to them no one else will. So no, fuck you boomers, I don't want to pay for your pensions.
Yeah, it's much easier to blame an entire generation instead of, oh I don't know, government policies. Especially when you can swallow the right-wing talking point that paying for the Boomers' retirement will "cripple ourselves economically" when there are plenty of solutions that keep social welfare programs like Medicare and Social Security solvent and effective through the Boomer retirement bump.
I left uni and spent a mere 9 months looking before I got a job. The middle 4-5 months were really really bad. It felt like forever. I can only wish you the very best of luck
Unfunded state pension schemes always have and always will be ponzi schemes backed by the taxpayer. I guess I can just about see how they came to pass - based on the demographics of the time - but with hindsight they are pants on head retarded.
Yeah I will blame them. At every turn they've elected people who've favored them and fucked us over. They've removed every single advantage they had that allowed them to get where they are today. Now I'm expected to pay my pittance of a wage in tax to top up their private pensions with a state one too? Why the hell should I?
The Boomers already got their retirement in the form of ridiculously low taxes. Fuck 'em.
And by "nice", I mean "incredibly sad and tragic".
It does remain the fucking height of hilarity that the same folks who bash the Boomers for being entitled and self-centered then turn around and say things like "Why should I pay for anyone else? Fuck them, I'm only looking out for me!"
No, I'm saying why should I pay to make people who are richer than I will ever be to have slightly more money in retirement than they otherwise would have? My heart fucking bleeds for them really, you know while I'm sitting here wondering if I'm going to be back in long term unemployment in 6 months because it's become so fucking difficult to get or keep a job.
The reason you pay taxes for the benefit of others (as well as yourself) is because of the social contract that's at the core of a representative democratic government.
If you really think that the way to improve your economic situation would be to repeal Medicare, then uh, good luck with that. If you think that an economic downturn is the right time to stop paying benefits to retirees, then, uh, okay, explain to me why more poverty is better than less poverty.
Then they die, problem solved.
They already collected their pensions by not paying taxes for twenty years. So yes, seriously, fuck 'em. I don't think most of us want to dismantle the social safety net that was established. We want to take it away from the people that sold that social safety net in exchange for low taxes for the bulk of their working lives, and are now trying to roll it up and take it with them.
But keep it for the rest of us.
Or...something.
So wait, you want to keep the social safety net for you, but arbitrarily end it for old people because they somehow magically didn't pay taxes for twenty years?
Uh, yeah, nobody ever gets to mock the Boomers for having dumb ideas based on self-centered entitlement ever again.
Oh, it's hypocritical.
Just like saying "I don't want to pay taxes to support those entitled old bastards who should have gotten rich in the '80s, because they want to take away the social safety net from us" is hypocritical.
It remains a horrible idea for fewer people to be on Medicare or for fewer people to get Social Security.
What boils my blood is the vast gap between Boomer generation advice and current reality.
Examples include:
"Your job is only working you part time? Just go get another, and work two jobs!"
"Why don't you just walk into the store, shake hands with the manager, and say you want to work there?"
"A college degree guarantees a good job."
"What are you whining about, cost of ______? I paid for my ______ off a minimum wage salary!"
The economic and cultural reality has shifted so far outside their own expertise that it renders their tried and true techniques laughable in a lot of cases. Its very hard to beat into them that the jobs they got for a firm handshake and a smile (and implicitly, being a white male, in the cases i know about) and learned on the job now require a degree, previous experience, and defeating a 100 other equally desperate applicants...all to make less pay than in 1970 against higher costs.
So, what you're saying is we shouldn't feel bad about being shafted left right and center by the boomer edited social contract because we have the moral high ground? No, fuck that. There is absolutely nothing hypocritical about saying "you didn't pay for it so you don't get to use it".
Yeah this was, and is, toxic advice. There's value to college, on a number of levels, but good God is that not an investment to be made flippantly, or advice to be given without a hell of a lot of asterisks bolted to it. I don't know about today, but authority figures during my high school experience were very eager to simplify the issue of your economic well-being to a difference between "college" and "no college."
The chilling thing is that the message reeks of a sort of reductive slogan-like packaging, which suggests a belief that 17 and 18 year-olds are not well-equipped to understand their future planning with much greater nuance. And yet, it is those same apparently ignorant teenagers who will be expected to spend much of their adult lives experiencing the consequences of the debt they accrue.
Except the idea that the Boomers, as a whole, have not paid into Medicare and Social Security has no basis in reality. I'm pretty sure they've paid more than younger cohorts for any number of reasons, more years in the workforce being just one of them.
The idea that youthful resentment of the impact of decades of regressive governmental economic policy is to destroy what remains of the social safety net (and yes, a "temporary" cessation of Medicare or Social Security payments would do just that, if only by shredding whatever confidence people felt in the government being able to deliver on the promises those social safety net programs entail) still remains profoundly, tragically stupid.
Although it'll be hilarious when all the PA forumite whippernsappers near retirement and all the bitter, disillusioned 20-somethings claim you fucked everything up for them and because you got to pirate MP3s for free and played too much World of Warcraft and didn't vote for Nader and paid too little in taxes you deserve to not get any Medicare or Social Security.
It's not like there's less downward pressure on the job market for people without postsecondary education.
God, these threads are always so depressing.
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Well they did work hard, it was just that back then working hard really paid of big. Said entitlements and tax laws saw to that. Its just that all they saw was their hard work, not the massive investments made to give them an chance to get paid.
That is why they can't really wrap their heads around the fact that while we do work hard, in fact probably harder then them, it hasn't paid of for us. When we complain about lack of help, they see lazy entitled kids.
So in their mind they earned their McMansions.
Well the wealthy people are the ones who actually profited off of the pain and suffering but the remainder of the boomers basically stuck their hands over their ears singing "Capitalism! La la la! Free market do do do! I can't hear the sound of poverty de de de!" and fiddled while the wealthy burned Rome to the ground. I had an even older person, who upon being presented with direct evidence of the economy being in the shitter (pay stagnation, rising costs, low social mobility, etc.) basically told me "I refuse to be against a system that has guaranteed my prosperity for X years! It just needs some small changes if that! Don't mess with capitalism you radical!" after which point I basically called him a selfish monster and ended the discussion. Yes, I called a 72 or-so year old man a selfish monster.
Reading through this thread and this really resonated with me. Posted this yesterday on Facebook when I was reading about what was going on with the Healthcare debate in the Supreme Court:
"Oh hey, just found out the Supreme Court struck down the Healthcare bill. Fuck this country moving to Europe as soon as I can swing it financially."
Today my uncle responded with this:
"Don't let the door hit you on your sorry, self-serving, intitlement ass on your way out. There is a reason people from all over world want to come here. Figure it out!"
Responded with this, he has yet to respond, not sure if he'll be able to come up with anything really:
"So I suppose you aren't going to make any use of Medicare in a couple of years?"
I liked my uncle a lot more before he got a Facebook and started getting all up in my politics. He is a rad dude, nice guy for the most part, rebuilds top fuel dragsters and races them, we have a good time whenever we hang out; but for some reason he's a neocon asshole and I just don't get it.
Had a lot of problems with my dad when I was out of work from 2008-2010. Then he started trying to find a new job in late 2009 and he got a lot nicer to me. Step mom's still a bitch though. Lately they've both become Obama supporters and we talk about a need for healthcare reform and it's kind of hilarious considering they used to be super Republican.
I wouldn't want to get rid of Medicare because most if not all middle-class retirees wouldn't be able to cope financially, but I don't get how more of them don't see that there's no fucking difference between Medicare and Single Payer Healthcare for everyone. It's fucking stupid.
Because we're one of the only first world nations that lets people in without in-demand professional skills and/or a big pile of money?
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Right, I think it's less that no higher education is preferable, and more that the way we think about post-secondary ed could be healthier. For instance, depending on where you're from or who you talk to, I think there's a certain amount of stigma attached to going for low-cost vocational training or other associate's style program. College is often sold to people as a four-year "experience" perhaps as much (if not more than) as a practical tool to open up your future, but going for that college experience (especially at a flashier private school) and grabbing a liberal arts BA will almost certainly put you way behind the curve in terms of debt while not necessarily making it any easier to get a job than cheaper alternatives.
Off topic, but I was under the impression SCOTUS hasn't ruled on that yet. Did I miss something?
The Air Force just hit the graduating class with "we have no money" so me and a good chunk of my friends have to wait up to a year to start active duty. So much for that fabled "career right after graduation."
Now I'm scrambling for some kind of non-trivial job after graduation. At this point I don't think I'll ever marry or have children.