I think I got 3 dwarfs cleaned up and partially assembled last night. At some point along the way, I got the bodies and heads between my warrior sprues and quarreller sprues all mixed up. Getting that sorted out so everyone can properly hold a weapon and fits on the right body is going to take a bit of work, I think.
My first draft list that I threw together is looking something like this...
Wargor
Hand Weapon, Extra Hand Weapon, Heavy Armour Gnarled Hide
Bray-Shaman
Hand Weapon The Lore of Beasts
Gor Herd
15 Gor, Full Command, Extra Hand Weapon
Gor Herd
15 Gor, Full Command, Extra Hand Weapon
Ungor Herd
10 Ungor, Full Command, Hand Weapon, Shield
Bestigor Herd
15 Bestigor, Full Command, Great Weapon, Heavy Armour
Now, I have taken a guess at what he will be fielding as he is going to use the Island of Blood set to start so his roster will look something along these lines;
Warlord
Warlock Engineer
-Warplock Pistol
Clanrats
20 Clanrats, Full Command, Spears, Shields
1 Warpfire Thrower Weapon Team
Clanrats
20 Clanrats, Full Command, Spears, Shields
1 Poisoned Wind Mortar Weapon Team
Rat Ogres
2 Rat Ogres
1 Master Moulder
So, how bad is my list and how badly are the rats going to rip me apart? Feel free to call me a disgrace to Chaos.
Missed this before.
20 strong rat units can't do a whole lot by themselves. Even with spears, you're looking at about 2 dead Gors and 3+ dead clanrats, making for a lost combat (2 wounds, 2 ranks, standard for clanrats, 3 kills, 1 rank, standard, charge for gors). Charging clanrats means no spears, 0-1 dead gor, and a draw. 20 clanrats can't handle 2-3 attrition a turn.
If they get a few weapon team shots on you first, or manage a flank with the Rat Ogres, that may be a different scenario. Having more total fighting units gives you an advantage and more chance of getting a flank.
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CorporateLogoThe toilet knowshow I feelRegistered Userregular
More like
The Empire - You wish your griffin had this tiny a head
So it looks like Empire now has screaming bell-esque pieces. Neat.
Also, I'm starting to really get annoyed by Games Workshop staff. Their fucking script is really getting old. Today I had three guys ask me the exact questions maybe 20 seconds apart from each.
So what brings you in today?
What armies do you have?
What are you working on now?
Ugh. Shoo! Let me paint in peace.
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-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
I dropped into a GW on the way back from my interview today, and was surprised the staff even remembered me from the previous week.
Some of the managers used to be so cool, striking up genuine conversations, offering neat tips or something, but now they are all used car salesmen and it defeats the whole purpose of going to those stores to begin with.
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-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
edited April 2012
The manager at my local GW is pretty good. He's like that - you can actually talk to him outside of the GW sales pitch. When I went in there first, he tried that angle, I told him I'd been playing for 20 years already, and he just decided to have a chat about my stuff rather than sell me things.
The only reason I don't go in there more is the average age of the customers in there is about 10 years old, while at my local indie store the average age of the other customers are my age.
Just come back with: "stand down, Space Marine. The first Commandment is 'build a rapport' - you can't do that by tossing the same questions at me every time!"
Witch Hunter - nominate a model at the beginning of the game to accuse of Heresy. WH rerolls hits against that model all game. Reroll wounds against undead/demons. Oh, he's also got Sniper and Killing Blow together.
Lascannon - +1DD, 6++ to units within 6", S8 flaming bolt-thrower bound spell that does d3 wounds and rerolls against undead.
Plane'arium - +1PD, +1 to hit in CC within 6", small template that can do damage, hex, or rotate a unit around.
Priests prayers and psychology rules that affect a unit also affect its detachment...Prayers include 5++, Flaming, and reroll Wounds. Also, the Priests give Hatred still. Also, Hatred goes to detachments.
Edit: Also, they nerfed a bunch of stuff (which totally needed it) like the mortar (now S2, more expensive) and cannon (more expensive). Core infantry is mostly more expensive, and they got rid of the ludicrous free dispel dice.
mr_mich on
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Dr_KeenbeanDumb as a buttPlanet Express ShipRegistered Userregular
So it looks like Empire now has screaming bell-esque pieces. Neat.
Also, I'm starting to really get annoyed by Games Workshop staff. Their fucking script is really getting old. Today I had three guys ask me the exact questions maybe 20 seconds apart from each.
So what brings you in today?
What armies do you have?
What are you working on now?
Ugh. Shoo! Let me paint in peace.
This is precisely why I don't go into GW stores anymore. It's not even like a Best Buy where the store is huge and you can just ignore the sales biscuit until he wanders off and tries to sell 'critical system updates' for a PS3 to an 11 year old's mother for $130.
This is precisely why I don't go into GW stores anymore. It's not even like a Best Buy where the store is huge and you can just ignore the sales biscuit until he wanders off and tries to sell 'critical system updates' for a PS3 to an 11 year old's mother for $130.
I actually work at a Best Buy and can honestly say what separates good sales people from just sales people is intention. Pushy sales people just intend to sell. I just go in looking to solve problems and provide solutions. I suppose its kinda like catching flies with honey vs vinegar.
Back to GW, it seems lately they have shifted staff from talking about its biggest selling point, the game itself, to product. Where before units were sold with strategies, or stories of how players used them in a critical way, they now suggest "Oh, cool, painting a rabble of Stormvermin. Know what they need? Warlord Finecast!"
It is a damn shame because the old pitch was "You know, Tom puts those guys on his flanks, and runs them with Hero X. About a week ago, he had a battle where, well yeah, he was lucky on a few roles, but those units almost won him the match single handedly." Great pitch! It talks about the product some, it talks about players, and it helps foster a community. Maybe I am the only salesman with a conscious, but just sitting around and listening to pitches all day while painting is a very frustrating experience because this hobby is something really cool and genuinely rewarding and fun, but the game itself takes back seat to "Look how the paint flows," or "Look how finely detailed this resin model is."
A greater argument can be made that the new versions rules are to encourage larger games with more units in order to sell more and not necessarily be more fun or even balanced, but that may be a subject for another time. Sorry in advance for getting all philosophical.
I have to say I have a very different experience when I pop into a GW store. I don't think I've ever had a guy say something akin to "oh you're getting that, do you know about this?" when buying a kit. In fact, last week when I went in to get myself a Stormvermin kit to make a Skaven bloodbowl team, the manager said I shouldn't bother with getting the clanrat kit as well, and just stick with the Stormvermin one.
The staff are always very cheerful / helpful with regards to me asking for help about painting.
Certainly in contrast to when I was young and treated with disdain; I remember when I was 12 (so 18 years ago) going into a GW store to buy myself some Man O'War ships. I saw there was a game going on, so watched it for a bit, before going over to look at the models and buying myself something and it was at that point I realised the staff were saying out loud a running commentary of what I was doing in the store and that they were laughing at me. Jerks.
PSN Fleety2009
0
Mr_Rose83 Blue Ridge Protects the HolyRegistered Userregular
I guess it comes from knowing all the local staff, but the only real 'scripted' question I ever get thre is the obligatory "you OK for glue and paint?" when I buy a new kit and, honestly, that's actually occasionally useful; reminds me to pop along to Model Zone and get some. :P
valhalla13013 Dark Shield Perceives the GodsRegistered Userregular
Sometimes I hate what this hobby does to me. I stopped by Hobbytown yesterday and looked thru their product again, basking in how close it could be and still be so far from me (monetarily) and I noticed the Land Raider that has been there for 5 months is not there now. Keep in mind that I am unable to purchase it until at least next payday, and I'll probably get another predator then (which was also gone.) but the thought that someone hd bought it really bothered me. Of course... they'll get a new one in this Thursday. And I can't buy one until at least next Friday when I get paid, but still... it was almost like someone had taken something from me. lol
Long time Empire player here. The new book has some great art and great looking new models. ...but I've read a ton of leaks and it seems like Cruddace has made another book with shoddy internal balance. (ala tomb kings) The mortar needed nerfing, but now it's a really really bad. Crossbowmen and handgunners were overpriced and yet went up a point. Pistoliers are still useless, which is too bad because I love the feel of them and had a shit ton of fun using them in 7th ed. The grandmaster went up in points for no reason what-so-ever... Engineers now have to not shoot their gun, AND choose a warmachine before it even fires to keep it from misfiring. So you pay all those points for an engineer just for that one in 6 chance. Oh and flagellants have went up in points and have a sacrifice chart that makes no sense.
If you can get over all of that nonsense, the rest of the book seems great. I see no reason why I wouldn't take demigryph knights every game. Regular knights are cheaper, and you can take inner circle along with reiksguard knights and demigryphs all in the same list. Mounted armies just became sexy and competitive for empire. The new griffon is cheaper AND has buffed stats compared to the old one (still kinda vulnerable to shooting though. Also, the new wizzmobiles have great rules and will see lots of play, but are tempered by the fact that they will be vulnerable to warmachine shooting.
Just my 2 cents as a long time fantasy player.
PS everything forgeworld has been doing for fantasy is shit hot, it's just too bad their stuff is priced by its weight in gold, diamonds and printer ink.
PPS I've heard that the new campaign book they have been hinting about could be a Bretonnia crusade against the Tomb Kings.
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-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
edited April 2012
The only real problem with Warhammer Forges pricing (particularly regiments) is the quantity of troops you need in a unit in 8th edition.
Like, 10 Infernal Guard are cheaper than 10 Space Marines in older patteran armour and those Space Marines also require you to buy weapons. They're also the same price as 10 man squads for their Guard ranges.
Unlike Space Marines and Guard, you need 3-4 sets of Infernal Guard to make one decent unit.
Outside of their troops, it varies wildly. Some stuff it well priced (for example, the Basilisk, Carmine dragon or their monstrous infantry) and some is pretty badly priced (like the Chaos Dwarf warmachines).
Also, I really need to get cracking on my Vampire Counts.
Long time Empire player here. The new book has some great art and great looking new models. ...but I've read a ton of leaks and it seems like Cruddace has made another book with shoddy internal balance. (ala tomb kings) The mortar needed nerfing, but now it's a really really bad. Crossbowmen and handgunners were overpriced and yet went up a point. Pistoliers are still useless, which is too bad because I love the feel of them and had a shit ton of fun using them in 7th ed. The grandmaster went up in points for no reason what-so-ever... Engineers now have to not shoot their gun, AND choose a warmachine before it even fires to keep it from misfiring. So you pay all those points for an engineer just for that one in 6 chance. Oh and flagellants have went up in points and have a sacrifice chart that makes no sense.
If you can get over all of that nonsense, the rest of the book seems great. I see no reason why I wouldn't take demigryph knights every game. Regular knights are cheaper, and you can take inner circle along with reiksguard knights and demigryphs all in the same list. Mounted armies just became sexy and competitive for empire. The new griffon is cheaper AND has buffed stats compared to the old one (still kinda vulnerable to shooting though. Also, the new wizzmobiles have great rules and will see lots of play, but are tempered by the fact that they will be vulnerable to warmachine shooting.
Just my 2 cents as a long time fantasy player.
PS everything forgeworld has been doing for fantasy is shit hot, it's just too bad their stuff is priced by its weight in gold, diamonds and printer ink.
PPS I've heard that the new campaign book they have been hinting about could be a Bretonnia crusade against the Tomb Kings.
The one that really baffles me is the Flaggies. They were really tough to get to work at 10 points, at 12 and with a crappier special rule I just can't see them being useful ever.
Oh, and flaggies can now loose frenzy as well. o_O
I think overall empire will be a strong list, but I really wish they had gone for better internal balance. I was considering getting a block of swordsmen, since they are the best looking state troops imo, but at 7 points each they are just awful. Spearmen are definitely the competitive choice now, but also the most boring...
Kind of disappointing as Spearmen/Halberds/Swordsmen was a really tough choice in the last book.
People were crying on Warseer for awhile about the 1-point increase in infantry costs. I can sort of see the inconvenience, but considering the way detachments work now they basically had to do it. The fact that you can pass any psychology rules, hatred, prayers, etc. onto a detachment means that we're going to see a lot of ward saves and rerolls handed around. That's not even considering the buffs from the Lascannon/Plane'arium.
Some nerfs are too heavy-handed (mortar) or make zero sense. Why the hell would you nerf the mechanical horse or the pigeon bombs, which may have been taken twice in all of 8th edition? On the other hand, I'm all about the new Helblaster, which looks fun as hell.
In any case, I think I'm going to go with a list like this when I start Empire this weekend:
-Wizard hero
-Warrior Priest
-20 Spearmen + full command (250)
-10 Free Company detachment
-10 Free Company detachment
-10 Crossbows (90)
-8 Knights (176)
-10 Greatswords (110)
-Luminark (120ish?)
-Helblaster (120ish?)
Leaves about 150ish for the Wizard and Warrior Priest for a 1k list. Might be a tight fit...maybe I should just say fuck it and go with Knights of the KFC Bucket instead.
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Mr_Rose83 Blue Ridge Protects the HolyRegistered Userregular
Wait, how do you nerf the autohorse? There's only so low you can go…
It's more expensive if I recall correctly, and might have lost its extra attacks. Also, it's now $40 in Finecast.
Edit: Hey Empirebros, since they've nuked missile infantry (3 zombies for a Handgunner/Crossbowman?) I'm curious...how difficult would it be to convert them into Spearmen/Halberdiers? I'm looking at the sprues, and some of the models have ammo pouches, but looks like it's pretty doable.
When I say convert, I mean build...because I'll have a battalion with a ton of missile units that I'll need to assemble, and maybe I can just slap some spear arms onto them and call it a day. Certainly beats paying 9 points for a Crossbow.
I got to see the new book today and I'm pleasantly surprised. Infantry all seem pretty good, cav are generally solid, Demigryphs give no fucks and take no shit from anyone, giant laser cannon and giant laser solar system are shit-wrecking-enablers of modest proportion, steam tank is still good, warrior priests are now fucking god damned spectacular, witch hunters are fucking awesome, flagellants are still awesome and crazy, gryphon standard still owns. Shit's good, man.
Well, you don't want them going in alone on anything other then small blocks of say 10 or so models. The will support the big blocks just fine, get in the flank and do what they are supposed to do.
Morskitter wrote "Spikes, choppas, tentacles, magic? Can't hold a candle to Sergeant Pimp here."
Core:
-20 Spearmen (FC) 120 (240)
-10 Free Company 60
-10 Free Company 60
-8 Knights 176
-10 Crossbows 90
Special:
-10 Greatswords 110
Rare:
-1 Luminark 120
-1 Helblaster 115
And the Chaos list I made for him:
+ Heroes + (190pts)
* Chaos Sorcerer (190pts)
Level 2, Lore of Tzeentch, Mark of Tzeentch, On foot
* Magic Items (50 p)
Biting Blade, Enchanted Shield, Luckstone, Power Familiar
+ Core + (610pts)
* Chaos Marauders (160pts)
Marauder Chieftain, Musician, Standard Bearer, Mark of Tzeentch
* 20x Chaos Marauder
(The Will of Chaos)
20x Light Armour, 20x Shields
* Chaos Warhounds (30pts)
5x Chaos Warhound
* Chaos Warhounds (30pts)
5x Chaos Warhound
* Chaos Warriors (390pts)
Champion, Musician, Standard Bearer, Mark of Tzeentch
* 20x Chaos Warrior
(The Will of Chaos)
20x Halberds, 20x Shields
+ Special + (200pts)
* Chaos Knights (200pts)
5x Knight (Ensorcelled Weapons, Fear, The Will of Chaos)
Kind of a douchey list to play against, but I wanted a challenge. I ran the Warrior Priest in the Spearman block so that his prayers/Hatred would pass along to the Free Company, who always deployed on either side trying to get a flank charge.
Anyways, here's my verdict after 2 games with no actual Empire Armybook in hand:
-I'm torn on Crossbowmen. They save me a ton of headache in terms of getting rid of chaff, but 9 points is a lot for a single BS3 crossbow shot. That's almost 2 Spearmen.
-Free Company, despite being raised a point in cost and totally naked (srsly, more expensive than an armored Spearman) are great detachment units. They're a poor-man's Flagellant, now that Hatred is conferred to detachments. The Prayers make them plenty killy/survivable when you get them off, which brings me to...
-Magic phase is fucked. The bound spells on everything means they're super easy to dispel for the enemy. I of course was at a disadvantage with only a Level 1 vs. a Level 2 Tzeentch guy. He barely had to roll anything to cancel out my priest prayers, and the Luminark was basically a black hole for power dice if I wanted to get it off. That being said, I imagine that there's a networked benefit if I start spamming priests, now that they can channel. I think I'll have to decide whether I want to commit to combat/priest-heavy army or wizards, which sucks cause I love both.
-The Luminark is dumb. I like the model, but the 6++ is silly and the Lascannon's not great. It got off 3-4 times across both games, and even then it wasn't that scary. There's a 1/6 chance that it'll just fail every rank, and there's no worse feeling than having it fail on the first rank. It got to the point where he wouldn't even try to dispel it sometimes, because the priest prayers are so much scarier.
-The Helblaster rules. I only got a few rounds of firing out of it, but each time it devoured 3 knights. We were playing on a pretty small (3x3) table, so my shooty guys probably didn't get a fair shake. I don't see a master engineer being necessary for this thing.
-Knights are fun as shit! I think they really need character support, it was silly when they'd crash into the block of Marauders and do no damage, then have to pass a break test because of static CR. Hatred would go a long way, as would taking a proper full command (I actually lost one round because of no musician in a tie!)
And things I learned about Chaos:
-Call to Glory is pretty nasty. When I read it as a Chaos player, I was like "Oh boo, who cares about something becoming an Exalted Hero, they're lame." Guess what, Exalted Heroes are really fucking scary against a trembling horde of T3/S3 spearmen.
-Chaos Knights are fucking sweet. I've been leaving them out because I figure they're too expensive in our small points games, and everyone poops on cavalry in 8th. But these bitches roll around with their 1+ armor save and slew of S5 attacks and just punish any small chaff/supporting units. I totally abused overrun at every opportunity.
-Warhounds are surprisingly good. WS4 and I4 made them actually a threat against my detachments, rather than just chaff.
-I'm losing wood for Halberds. Getting wounded on 2's was painful, but he really missed a lot of saves because of no shield. Plus, MoT would've given him a 3+/5++ in CC, and he probably never would've lost a single Warrior.
I really don't like how it seems that everything in the new book was designed and priced with the assumption that you're running lore of life. What's the point of having access to all of them if not using one means you're gimping yourself.
I really don't like how it seems that everything in the new book was designed and priced with the assumption that you're running lore of life. What's the point of having access to all of them if not using one means you're gimping yourself.
I was being sarcastic, lore of life is just always good forever
Posts
Missed this before.
20 strong rat units can't do a whole lot by themselves. Even with spears, you're looking at about 2 dead Gors and 3+ dead clanrats, making for a lost combat (2 wounds, 2 ranks, standard for clanrats, 3 kills, 1 rank, standard, charge for gors). Charging clanrats means no spears, 0-1 dead gor, and a draw. 20 clanrats can't handle 2-3 attrition a turn.
If they get a few weapon team shots on you first, or manage a flank with the Rat Ogres, that may be a different scenario. Having more total fighting units gives you an advantage and more chance of getting a flank.
The Empire - You wish your griffin had this tiny a head
Also, I'm starting to really get annoyed by Games Workshop staff. Their fucking script is really getting old. Today I had three guys ask me the exact questions maybe 20 seconds apart from each.
So what brings you in today?
What armies do you have?
What are you working on now?
Ugh. Shoo! Let me paint in peace.
The only reason I don't go in there more is the average age of the customers in there is about 10 years old, while at my local indie store the average age of the other customers are my age.
It helps that the indie store is awesome, too.
They'll know what it means.
Witch Hunter - nominate a model at the beginning of the game to accuse of Heresy. WH rerolls hits against that model all game. Reroll wounds against undead/demons. Oh, he's also got Sniper and Killing Blow together.
Lascannon - +1DD, 6++ to units within 6", S8 flaming bolt-thrower bound spell that does d3 wounds and rerolls against undead.
Plane'arium - +1PD, +1 to hit in CC within 6", small template that can do damage, hex, or rotate a unit around.
Priests prayers and psychology rules that affect a unit also affect its detachment...Prayers include 5++, Flaming, and reroll Wounds. Also, the Priests give Hatred still. Also, Hatred goes to detachments.
Edit: Also, they nerfed a bunch of stuff (which totally needed it) like the mortar (now S2, more expensive) and cannon (more expensive). Core infantry is mostly more expensive, and they got rid of the ludicrous free dispel dice.
This is precisely why I don't go into GW stores anymore. It's not even like a Best Buy where the store is huge and you can just ignore the sales biscuit until he wanders off and tries to sell 'critical system updates' for a PS3 to an 11 year old's mother for $130.
3DS: 1650-8480-6786
Switch: SW-0653-8208-4705
I actually work at a Best Buy and can honestly say what separates good sales people from just sales people is intention. Pushy sales people just intend to sell. I just go in looking to solve problems and provide solutions. I suppose its kinda like catching flies with honey vs vinegar.
Back to GW, it seems lately they have shifted staff from talking about its biggest selling point, the game itself, to product. Where before units were sold with strategies, or stories of how players used them in a critical way, they now suggest "Oh, cool, painting a rabble of Stormvermin. Know what they need? Warlord Finecast!"
It is a damn shame because the old pitch was "You know, Tom puts those guys on his flanks, and runs them with Hero X. About a week ago, he had a battle where, well yeah, he was lucky on a few roles, but those units almost won him the match single handedly." Great pitch! It talks about the product some, it talks about players, and it helps foster a community. Maybe I am the only salesman with a conscious, but just sitting around and listening to pitches all day while painting is a very frustrating experience because this hobby is something really cool and genuinely rewarding and fun, but the game itself takes back seat to "Look how the paint flows," or "Look how finely detailed this resin model is."
A greater argument can be made that the new versions rules are to encourage larger games with more units in order to sell more and not necessarily be more fun or even balanced, but that may be a subject for another time. Sorry in advance for getting all philosophical.
The staff are always very cheerful / helpful with regards to me asking for help about painting.
Certainly in contrast to when I was young and treated with disdain; I remember when I was 12 (so 18 years ago) going into a GW store to buy myself some Man O'War ships. I saw there was a game going on, so watched it for a bit, before going over to look at the models and buying myself something and it was at that point I realised the staff were saying out loud a running commentary of what I was doing in the store and that they were laughing at me. Jerks.
Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
If you can get over all of that nonsense, the rest of the book seems great. I see no reason why I wouldn't take demigryph knights every game. Regular knights are cheaper, and you can take inner circle along with reiksguard knights and demigryphs all in the same list. Mounted armies just became sexy and competitive for empire. The new griffon is cheaper AND has buffed stats compared to the old one (still kinda vulnerable to shooting though. Also, the new wizzmobiles have great rules and will see lots of play, but are tempered by the fact that they will be vulnerable to warmachine shooting.
Just my 2 cents as a long time fantasy player.
PS everything forgeworld has been doing for fantasy is shit hot, it's just too bad their stuff is priced by its weight in gold, diamonds and printer ink.
PPS I've heard that the new campaign book they have been hinting about could be a Bretonnia crusade against the Tomb Kings.
Like, 10 Infernal Guard are cheaper than 10 Space Marines in older patteran armour and those Space Marines also require you to buy weapons. They're also the same price as 10 man squads for their Guard ranges.
Unlike Space Marines and Guard, you need 3-4 sets of Infernal Guard to make one decent unit.
Outside of their troops, it varies wildly. Some stuff it well priced (for example, the Basilisk, Carmine dragon or their monstrous infantry) and some is pretty badly priced (like the Chaos Dwarf warmachines).
Also, I really need to get cracking on my Vampire Counts.
The one that really baffles me is the Flaggies. They were really tough to get to work at 10 points, at 12 and with a crappier special rule I just can't see them being useful ever.
I think overall empire will be a strong list, but I really wish they had gone for better internal balance. I was considering getting a block of swordsmen, since they are the best looking state troops imo, but at 7 points each they are just awful. Spearmen are definitely the competitive choice now, but also the most boring...
Kind of disappointing as Spearmen/Halberds/Swordsmen was a really tough choice in the last book.
You did see the author, right?
Also, remember, right now we're going off White Dwarf information and 'reliable internet informers'. There was plenty of this about VC's as well.
My particular favorite was 'T3 still won't make zombies a good tarpit or even worth raising since you can raise skeletons with light armour instead'.
Yeah.
The new detachment rules do sound interesting though.
Some nerfs are too heavy-handed (mortar) or make zero sense. Why the hell would you nerf the mechanical horse or the pigeon bombs, which may have been taken twice in all of 8th edition? On the other hand, I'm all about the new Helblaster, which looks fun as hell.
In any case, I think I'm going to go with a list like this when I start Empire this weekend:
-Warrior Priest
-20 Spearmen + full command (250)
-10 Free Company detachment
-10 Free Company detachment
-10 Crossbows (90)
-8 Knights (176)
-10 Greatswords (110)
-Luminark (120ish?)
-Helblaster (120ish?)
Leaves about 150ish for the Wizard and Warrior Priest for a 1k list. Might be a tight fit...maybe I should just say fuck it and go with Knights of the KFC Bucket instead.
Nintendo Network ID: AzraelRose
DropBox invite link - get 500MB extra free.
Edit: Hey Empirebros, since they've nuked missile infantry (3 zombies for a Handgunner/Crossbowman?) I'm curious...how difficult would it be to convert them into Spearmen/Halberdiers? I'm looking at the sprues, and some of the models have ammo pouches, but looks like it's pretty doable.
Here's my Empire list:
Heroes:
Priest (Bit. Blade, Dragon, HA/S) 86
Wizard (Level 1, Lore of Shadow) 65
Core:
-20 Spearmen (FC) 120 (240)
-10 Free Company 60
-10 Free Company 60
-8 Knights 176
-10 Crossbows 90
Special:
-10 Greatswords 110
Rare:
-1 Luminark 120
-1 Helblaster 115
And the Chaos list I made for him:
* Chaos Sorcerer (190pts)
Level 2, Lore of Tzeentch, Mark of Tzeentch, On foot
* Magic Items (50 p)
Biting Blade, Enchanted Shield, Luckstone, Power Familiar
+ Core + (610pts)
* Chaos Marauders (160pts)
Marauder Chieftain, Musician, Standard Bearer, Mark of Tzeentch
* 20x Chaos Marauder
(The Will of Chaos)
20x Light Armour, 20x Shields
* Chaos Warhounds (30pts)
5x Chaos Warhound
* Chaos Warhounds (30pts)
5x Chaos Warhound
* Chaos Warriors (390pts)
Champion, Musician, Standard Bearer, Mark of Tzeentch
* 20x Chaos Warrior
(The Will of Chaos)
20x Halberds, 20x Shields
+ Special + (200pts)
* Chaos Knights (200pts)
5x Knight (Ensorcelled Weapons, Fear, The Will of Chaos)
Kind of a douchey list to play against, but I wanted a challenge. I ran the Warrior Priest in the Spearman block so that his prayers/Hatred would pass along to the Free Company, who always deployed on either side trying to get a flank charge.
Anyways, here's my verdict after 2 games with no actual Empire Armybook in hand:
-I'm torn on Crossbowmen. They save me a ton of headache in terms of getting rid of chaff, but 9 points is a lot for a single BS3 crossbow shot. That's almost 2 Spearmen.
-Free Company, despite being raised a point in cost and totally naked (srsly, more expensive than an armored Spearman) are great detachment units. They're a poor-man's Flagellant, now that Hatred is conferred to detachments. The Prayers make them plenty killy/survivable when you get them off, which brings me to...
-Magic phase is fucked. The bound spells on everything means they're super easy to dispel for the enemy. I of course was at a disadvantage with only a Level 1 vs. a Level 2 Tzeentch guy. He barely had to roll anything to cancel out my priest prayers, and the Luminark was basically a black hole for power dice if I wanted to get it off. That being said, I imagine that there's a networked benefit if I start spamming priests, now that they can channel. I think I'll have to decide whether I want to commit to combat/priest-heavy army or wizards, which sucks cause I love both.
-The Luminark is dumb. I like the model, but the 6++ is silly and the Lascannon's not great. It got off 3-4 times across both games, and even then it wasn't that scary. There's a 1/6 chance that it'll just fail every rank, and there's no worse feeling than having it fail on the first rank. It got to the point where he wouldn't even try to dispel it sometimes, because the priest prayers are so much scarier.
-The Helblaster rules. I only got a few rounds of firing out of it, but each time it devoured 3 knights. We were playing on a pretty small (3x3) table, so my shooty guys probably didn't get a fair shake. I don't see a master engineer being necessary for this thing.
-Knights are fun as shit! I think they really need character support, it was silly when they'd crash into the block of Marauders and do no damage, then have to pass a break test because of static CR. Hatred would go a long way, as would taking a proper full command (I actually lost one round because of no musician in a tie!)
And things I learned about Chaos:
-Call to Glory is pretty nasty. When I read it as a Chaos player, I was like "Oh boo, who cares about something becoming an Exalted Hero, they're lame." Guess what, Exalted Heroes are really fucking scary against a trembling horde of T3/S3 spearmen.
-Chaos Knights are fucking sweet. I've been leaving them out because I figure they're too expensive in our small points games, and everyone poops on cavalry in 8th. But these bitches roll around with their 1+ armor save and slew of S5 attacks and just punish any small chaff/supporting units. I totally abused overrun at every opportunity.
-Warhounds are surprisingly good. WS4 and I4 made them actually a threat against my detachments, rather than just chaff.
-I'm losing wood for Halberds. Getting wounded on 2's was painful, but he really missed a lot of saves because of no shield. Plus, MoT would've given him a 3+/5++ in CC, and he probably never would've lost a single Warrior.
I4 helps a lot, also 1+ armor save and they have a tractor they can haul around to give them a 6+ ward
also, lore of life
9 points for crossbows
Last time I played my high elves (7th ed) bowmen were 12 points for something worse than BS3 crossbows.
I was being sarcastic, lore of life is just always good forever
kind of like lore of shadows