SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
I don't understand these Ryze players at all. Get them mid as Morgana and they are barely throwing out Overload/attack harass, just sitting there farming. Their level 1-5 is so much more consistent...
I don't understand these Ryze players at all. Get them mid as Morgana and they are barely throwing out Overload/attack harass, just sitting there farming. Their level 1-5 is so much more consistent...
which is silly because ryze should absolutely dominate morgana
I don't understand these Ryze players at all. Get them mid as Morgana and they are barely throwing out Overload/attack harass, just sitting there farming. Their level 1-5 is so much more consistent...
which is silly because ryze should absolutely dominate morgana
Yeah, it's not a matchup I usually like doing, but I was rolling the dice. The other alternative was trading with Rend and sending Janna mid and using Morg as the support with Ashe vs Kog/Nunu.
I mean at worst I can keep dropping Soil to farm but seriously Morg should not win that matchup as hard I have the past two times.
I don't understand these Ryze players at all. Get them mid as Morgana and they are barely throwing out Overload/attack harass, just sitting there farming. Their level 1-5 is so much more consistent...
which is silly because ryze should absolutely dominate morgana
Yeah, it's not a matchup I usually like doing, but I was rolling the dice. The other alternative was trading with Rend and sending Janna mid and using Morg as the support with Ashe vs Kog/Nunu.
I mean at worst I can keep dropping Soil to farm but seriously Morg should not win that matchup as hard I have the past two times.
Skill is more relevant than Champion matchups.
NNID: delphinidaes Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
0
Options
SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
I don't understand these Ryze players at all. Get them mid as Morgana and they are barely throwing out Overload/attack harass, just sitting there farming. Their level 1-5 is so much more consistent...
which is silly because ryze should absolutely dominate morgana
Yeah, it's not a matchup I usually like doing, but I was rolling the dice. The other alternative was trading with Rend and sending Janna mid and using Morg as the support with Ashe vs Kog/Nunu.
I mean at worst I can keep dropping Soil to farm but seriously Morg should not win that matchup as hard I have the past two times.
Skill is more relevant than Champion matchups.
That's a nice pithy statement and all, but that doesn't mean you should send Lux mid when you see them take Talon if you have the opportunity to swap.
Like, maybe you say that or something because you think I was making good plays. I wasn't. They just weren't doing anything at all until I decided to kill them.
There's nothing more frustrating in this game than jungling when all your lanes push their minions to tower and die over and over again to ganks so when laning ends you're underfarmed and have to deal with a super fed team.
You end up getting fed a shit sandwich with nothing you can do about it.
Note to self, never ever try Doran's blades start on jungle lee sin again. I missed that ward so much, so much.
Do you start Cloth, Ward, pots?
I tried a Doran's start with jungle Riven. Got so low it was horrible. Tried Cloth+Pots. Same problem. I just can't figure out jungle Riven at all.
I'm trying to find my feet with him again since the slight nerfs to his passive and the overall nerfs to life steal. The sustain was fine with the DB and the extra damage was nice, but the lack of a wriggles hurt in too many places: Dragon control, clear time and that vital ward for general Singah based shenanigans.
Being in a 5 man premade with two guys with significantly higher ELO than me (Hale and some other dude) and one of us not being on mumble was probably not the best game to test the viability though. Everywhere I tried to gank/invade was warded up the whizzer.
I've also tried a boots and pots starts for the early gank. If it goes wrong though; either through red resetting (WHY YOU FUCKING FUCK WHY?!?!) or a failgank then you're so fucked it's not worth it. I think I'll stick to good ol' vampiric sceptre start.
I tried Riven once in the jungle and also had sustain problems. I was fucking awful with her abilities too, but that would come with practice. I'll have another go with her when she comes up on free week again.
Currently loving the Mundo jungle, so good for counterjungling!
Just played a game as graves where I'm lvl 5 and bot Ashe is lvl 1. Destroyed them. Should have snowballed easily but jarvan and GP had no clue how to team fight. They'd dive ahead recklessly and die. In situations where we had 3v2's or better. And it got worse in team fights.
Singed would run straight at me, I'd have to repositiOn or run away or risk dying, they'd run ahead recklessly, die, leaving
Me alive and maybe one other. I refused to let myself die pointlessly, and they kept saying I was trolling and in all chat to report me. Maybe try to protect your carry and actually team fight instead of playing deathmatch?
And I was the only person warding. Somehow we won, someone back doored. We had such a huge advantage, all towers but nexus down (so I think it was our minions that actually killed their nexus) but they just didn't understand the concept of team fights. They'd simply run ahead and die, then bitch and complain that I didn't die with them to give the enemy the ace, and calling me a troll.
Oh, and I got called a n00b for buying the item with 40% armor pen instead of black cleaver. With no protection I can't stick to a target long enough to get stacks
With my sister I discovered that Jarvan + Graves bot lane is the best thing. It shreds tanks, stops ganks, can't take any poke damage. Also I can transition from GP5 to Atmogs late game.
Note to self, never ever try Doran's blades start on jungle lee sin again. I missed that ward so much, so much.
Do you start Cloth, Ward, pots?
I tried a Doran's start with jungle Riven. Got so low it was horrible. Tried Cloth+Pots. Same problem. I just can't figure out jungle Riven at all.
I have AD runes for riven but dorans start should work great. I usually even give blue to mid to start.
I was running a page with AD Reds/Quints, Armor yellows and CDR blues. Maybe I need to look at masteries.
I can't remember exactly what I run, but I go up offense and defence for CDR. I believe the only real difference in my jungle/non jungle riven is the far right for the thorn type DMG to minions in defense.
Wow after that last game this game really made up for it.
Team was pretty awesome in pre game chat, although they questioned my 4th pick singed against first pick GP. From past experience, on both sides, it's favorable to singed, although both get low and junglers can sway the battle.
Enemy jungler is WW with no smite (WTF?) so I suggest we invade, or at the very least, skarner go boots/pots/ward and get the easy blue with WW doing all the work. We invade and thanks to my ghost/fling we get first blood. So I back for more pots (originally started mana crystal + pot, think I bought 2 more and. Ward) come to lane, and be very aggressive thanks to my pot advantage. I push to tower pretty recklessly, not really fearing WW pre 6, plus I have ward coverage and a bunch of pots.
Things don't go great in mid and bottom, team starts to get on each other, but me and jungle calm them down. WW has to end up helping GP quite abit, and I constantly remind team he's up top. I do my thing as singed, push to tower with gas getting most CS, and either go to mid to gank or if I see WW on map, counter jungle. I took red so many times.
We snowball pretty easily for a win while enemy is blaming each other. Think I died twice. One was me pushing top, WW comes to gank, I survive, and he stays up top for like two minutes. He already used his ult on me, mines still on CD, so I figure his is too. I bait him, fling him, only to find his is back up
Highlight, 3 times a teamate in chat says "that singed". At first I thought he was talking shit, but then I looked at my CS, GP's deaths, my kills, and realized it was a compliment.
I love singed. He provides a great tank while still building damage ( I rush RoA, merc treads, Ryalis. Pretty standard I think. Then I build according to strenghs an enemy team. In this case started on frozen (? Core? Defense + mana). I get AP and life . He provided great initiation. You can run straight at a squishy/carry to fling, get CC'd, and as long as you've played well, between your ultimate and merc treads your back to flinging that squishy to set up a 4v5. And even if you die, you've done enough DMG and helped initiate / made it apparent who to kill, that it doesn't matter.
Ive Carried as many different roles, but IMO, to carry solo que games, you want to have the ability to initiate, and initiate well, more so than be the DMG dealer.
Let's face it, you can do all the DMG in the world as an ad carry, but if your team
Falls apart and starts playing death match in team fights, you're likely to lose the game. Singed makes it easy mode to figure out who to kill IMO.
Tommatt on
0
Options
ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
Note to self, never ever try Doran's blades start on jungle lee sin again. I missed that ward so much, so much.
Do you start Cloth, Ward, pots?
I tried a Doran's start with jungle Riven. Got so low it was horrible. Tried Cloth+Pots. Same problem. I just can't figure out jungle Riven at all.
QEQW is the big thing for jungle Riven, not QWQE.
What? Who does this? QWEWW
QWE then R > W > Q > E
Doran's Start should be fine although ganking will be really dicey afterwards. Just go cloth/pots and you gain some ability to counterjungle and gank more aggressively since you'll be at higher health. Doran's start is nice because sometimes if I get really far ahead early on I won't even build the Wriggles.
Runes ain't nothing special. AD/ArPen reds, AD quints, Armor yellows, flat cdr blues. Masteries are 21/9/0. Make sure you're spacing your abilities with autoattacks to use your passive. Bonus points if you cancel your autoattack animation into things.
ChaosHat on
0
Options
KayWhat we need...Is a little bit of PANIC.Registered Userregular
Doran's Start should be fine although ganking will be really dicey afterwards. Just go cloth/pots and you gain some ability to counterjungle and gank more aggressively since you'll be at higher health. Doran's start is nice because sometimes if I get really far ahead early on I won't even build the Wriggles.
Runes ain't nothing special. AD/ArPen reds, AD quints, Armor yellows, flat cdr blues. Masteries are 21/9/0. Make sure you're spacing your abilities with autoattacks to use your passive. Bonus points if you cancel your autoattack animation into things.
This is pretty much what I've been doing. I had two rune setups, one mastery setup, and things just weren't working too well.
Cloth + Pots was better, and I just held onto the Cloth for a Guardian Angel (I didn't think Wriggles would be that useful on Riven for anything beyond the ward, tbh.)
Dorans start was horrifically painful, and I had to base after wolves, no way could I have taken Blue.
Started with Q. Walked to the back of Wraiths, hit the big one, Q as the others came in to hit all 4, AA, Q, AA, Q, AA to finish. Picked up E, went to red. Let them pull, AA, Q, AA etc until I got aggro, then E to soak up some damage with another AA, repeat. I wasn't timing the 3rd Q knockback to cancel their autoattacks - is this something you NEED to do in order to remain at high health? I'll try cancelling autos with abilities in future, see how that works.
Also, I had what could only be considered weird lag, too. My ping was -fine-, but sometimes I'd try to dash and she just wouldn't do it. No, it wasn't on CDR, no I wasn't lagging noticably, just for abilities. Does Smartcasting/smartcast range indicator sometimes mess with Riven's ability executions? Like she won't dash unless she can reach the mousepointer? I thought she'd just fling herself in the direction of your mousepointer regardless of where it was.
3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
0
Options
ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
edited April 2012
I've never had an issue with valoring no matter where the mouse pointer is.
It sounds like you went E second? You want ki strike for the stun and aoe damage second, which might be why you're having some trouble. If you're going wraiths -> red start you're going to want a pull on it, especially if you're doing dorans. This shouldn't be any harder for mid to pull, and if they put a little damage on wraiths you'll make it in plenty of time. Also using your first autoattack naked is a probably a waste of time, although I'd have to see the math for it. Just run in, Q the whole pack from the front, and immediately use your passive. Riven's Q starts cooling down the instant you use it, not the instant all three charges are burned.
Wriggles is pretty useful depending on how well you're doing. Wriggles still has good Riven stats (armor, ad, and lifesteal is all stuff she can use) and can really help with some clear times and dragon control with the proc. Sometimes trying to do dragon sucks if I have gone the 2 doran's blades and brutalizer early game route. Riven's biggest jungle issue is sustain, and unless you have the raw attack damage to power through it (like with the dorans and brutalizer), adding the lifesteal, proc, and armor goes a long way.
It's also important to be a mob wrangler, especially at early levels. Anecdotally, your Q hits everything in about a 180 degree arc in front of you, so if you don't position things like double golems or wolves correctly, you won't quite hit them all. This is where E can be really handy, since you can use it as a fast step to pull the mobs in around you closer.
Edit: Also consider Riven is the greatest ganker of all time, OF ALL TIME. Start wraiths, get a pull on red, and immediately gank a lane. Going Q -> W gives you a toooon of damage and CC early on. Find a lane out of position (obviously one of the two red adjacent lanes) and then Qx2 into range, hit W (autoattack), Q (autoattack) again. Take exhaust if you want to be a brave and sexy nerd baller who destroys all. Sometimes I'll start with a Shermanesque march to the lanes and start wolves, take enemy wraith camp (leaving one of course), take enemy large golem, and then you can come behind the enemy while your lane pushes them into you (i.e., if you started bottom, you can come from the enemy tri in top lane and you can yell PINCER STRIKE).
There is nothing to say that you have to do a full clear to four. Honestly, depending on how the lanes are pushing that early, I'd say that's something stupid. Junglers can hit 2 (and 3) pretty much faster than the lanes can that early on. Keep an eye out for where you can gank.
There's nothing more frustrating in this game than jungling when all your lanes push their minions to tower and die over and over again to ganks so when laning ends you're underfarmed and have to deal with a super fed team.
You end up getting fed a shit sandwich with nothing you can do about it.
But I always push bot lane to enemy tower as ad carry with a support that wards. Go counter jungle while I get 30-40 cs ahead.
Doran's Start should be fine although ganking will be really dicey afterwards. Just go cloth/pots and you gain some ability to counterjungle and gank more aggressively since you'll be at higher health. Doran's start is nice because sometimes if I get really far ahead early on I won't even build the Wriggles.
Runes ain't nothing special. AD/ArPen reds, AD quints, Armor yellows, flat cdr blues. Masteries are 21/9/0. Make sure you're spacing your abilities with autoattacks to use your passive. Bonus points if you cancel your autoattack animation into things.
I actually go qwe then r>q>e>w. With the damage increase to q it gives faster clear times and nice damage on champs as well.
The most important part of riven is that before level 3 you will take a ton of damage. But once you have the qwe combo you literally do not lose health from normal camps, and red/blue are easyish as well. Just remember that q resets auto timer, so auto>q>auto repeat and you clear those early camps a lot faster. If I can get a hard leash on red, ie one person leashing and another staying to hit it to close to smite range I start there with a dorans and gank at once. You come at level 2 as they reach lane with red, if they don't burn flash or heal they likely die if your lane knows what to do. If I do this I also give first blue to mid. If I can't get a good leash I go wolves>blue>wraiths>wolves>red and then either gank or keep farming depending on how it looks. After dorans, boots into wriggles. Then mercs/thirster and a GA.
There's nothing more frustrating in this game than jungling when all your lanes push their minions to tower and die over and over again to ganks so when laning ends you're underfarmed and have to deal with a super fed team.
You end up getting fed a shit sandwich with nothing you can do about it.
But I always push bot lane to enemy tower as ad carry with a support that wards. Go counter jungle while I get 30-40 cs ahead.
This. Counter jungle and counter-gank.
I've been in the situation you describe where teammates recklessly push lanes into ungankability but there are still things you can try to do.
Pregame we have a comp without a jungler so Trynd decides to jungle, but then goes to get a drink or something, so I say "Hey, you know, I main jungle, I can do it np." Then switch to jungle Maokai after telling Trynd to go back to top or whatever he had. He comes back right as the game starts without enough time to change so... Double jungle. I say, hey, it's fine, just take red, I'll take blue, gank all lanes with a focus on bot. We've got Voli top v Singed, Morg bot v. Miss Fortune and Ziggs, and Vlad v Vlad in the center. Trynd takes red and I take blue and Gankfest 2012 begins in earnest.
Every time they walk an inch away from their turrets, boom, one of us is there. Between my root and Trynd's slow, there's just nothing they can do. The only lane that manages to snowball is top because he's Singed and he goes tanky and can't easily be ganked over and over.
Fifteen minutes in the score is something like 15-4 in our favor and their Vlad has just been annihilated over and over again. We constantly caught their Ziggs out and pushed all lanes constantly while taking the majority of Warwick's jungle farm while we were at it.
We dominated them... Granted we were all playing champs that are extremely strong on their own, but man, that was epic.
Xbox Live: No Reply
Steam: Jacobontap
LoL: FutureBlues
There's nothing more frustrating in this game than jungling when all your lanes push their minions to tower and die over and over again to ganks so when laning ends you're underfarmed and have to deal with a super fed team.
You end up getting fed a shit sandwich with nothing you can do about it.
But I always push bot lane to enemy tower as ad carry with a support that wards. Go counter jungle while I get 30-40 cs ahead.
This. Counter jungle and counter-gank.
I've been in the situation you describe where teammates recklessly push lanes into ungankability but there are still things you can try to do.
It requires good warding and good teammates, but a well executed counter gank is amazing. So many kills in so little time.
Doran's Start should be fine although ganking will be really dicey afterwards. Just go cloth/pots and you gain some ability to counterjungle and gank more aggressively since you'll be at higher health. Doran's start is nice because sometimes if I get really far ahead early on I won't even build the Wriggles.
Runes ain't nothing special. AD/ArPen reds, AD quints, Armor yellows, flat cdr blues. Masteries are 21/9/0. Make sure you're spacing your abilities with autoattacks to use your passive. Bonus points if you cancel your autoattack animation into things.
I actually go qwe then r>q>e>w. With the damage increase to q it gives faster clear times and nice damage on champs as well.
The most important part of riven is that before level 3 you will take a ton of damage. But once you have the qwe combo you literally do not lose health from normal camps, and red/blue are easyish as well. Just remember that q resets auto timer, so auto>q>auto repeat and you clear those early camps a lot faster. If I can get a hard leash on red, ie one person leashing and another staying to hit it to close to smite range I start there with a dorans and gank at once. You come at level 2 as they reach lane with red, if they don't burn flash or heal they likely die if your lane knows what to do. If I do this I also give first blue to mid. If I can't get a good leash I go wolves>blue>wraiths>wolves>red and then either gank or keep farming depending on how it looks. After dorans, boots into wriggles. Then mercs/thirster and a GA.
I agree, after the damage changes going Q before W makes your life much better in the jungle. Early W is key for canceling the first round of attacks from jungle creeps (watch their windup and hit W in the middle, it will reset their attack animation and you won't take damage).
Purely from a jungle perspective, q gives way, way more damage than w, as its aoe does more damage and it gives 3 passive procs. In a gank leveling it is slightly worse, since if you use it as a gap closer you won't be hitting all the jumps. If you land 1 q hit, w is better. if you land more than on q, q is better.
That is before ratios, though if you include them, the same still holds true.
After the damage shift, q became much better to level up.
I don't understand these Ryze players at all. Get them mid as Morgana and they are barely throwing out Overload/attack harass, just sitting there farming. Their level 1-5 is so much more consistent...
which is silly because ryze should absolutely dominate morgana
Yeah, it's not a matchup I usually like doing, but I was rolling the dice. The other alternative was trading with Rend and sending Janna mid and using Morg as the support with Ashe vs Kog/Nunu.
I mean at worst I can keep dropping Soil to farm but seriously Morg should not win that matchup as hard I have the past two times.
Skill is more relevant than Champion matchups.
That's a nice pithy statement and all, but that doesn't mean you should send Lux mid when you see them take Talon if you have the opportunity to swap.
Like, maybe you say that or something because you think I was making good plays. I wasn't. They just weren't doing anything at all until I decided to kill them.
I didn't say that you should counter pick yourself, don't be obtuse. I'm saying that even if you find yourself in a position where you are up against your counter, or a champ that should be able to beat you the game still relies more on skill than the fact that X champ beats Y champ.
You don't have to make amazing plays if the person you are fighting is playing terribly. Not pressing the advantage was a bad decision on that part of the ryze you were up against. It could be he was inexperienced, or maybe just wanted to play passively to get farm up, or any number of other things. The point being that he was making bad decisions, and you were not. You don't have to thread the needle with clutch binds to be more skillful than your opponent.
You could very well play a standard Morgana and still more more skillful than your opponent if they are making bad decisions (Such as not taking advantage of the matchup, or just not knowing their own champions abilities very well). That is why Skill is more relevant than champion matchups. Champion Matchups only matter when you are dealing with two players of similar skill. That is when the inherent abilities of the champion become the deciding factor. (Or in the case where one player is both more skillful AND chose a champ that is a bad matchup for you)
Now obviously there are many more factors involved (Jungle ganks, Specific builds, etc) but I still stand by my statement that at the end of the day the most important factor is the skill of the player.
Delphinidaes on
NNID: delphinidaes Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
0
Options
SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
I don't understand these Ryze players at all. Get them mid as Morgana and they are barely throwing out Overload/attack harass, just sitting there farming. Their level 1-5 is so much more consistent...
which is silly because ryze should absolutely dominate morgana
Yeah, it's not a matchup I usually like doing, but I was rolling the dice. The other alternative was trading with Rend and sending Janna mid and using Morg as the support with Ashe vs Kog/Nunu.
I mean at worst I can keep dropping Soil to farm but seriously Morg should not win that matchup as hard I have the past two times.
Skill is more relevant than Champion matchups.
That's a nice pithy statement and all, but that doesn't mean you should send Lux mid when you see them take Talon if you have the opportunity to swap.
Like, maybe you say that or something because you think I was making good plays. I wasn't. They just weren't doing anything at all until I decided to kill them.
I didn't say that you should counter pick yourself, don't be obtuse. I'm saying that even if you find yourself in a position where you are up against your counter, or a champ that should be able to beat you the game still relies more on skill than the fact that X champ beats Y champ.
You don't have to make amazing plays if the person you are fighting is playing terribly. Not pressing the advantage was a bad decision on that part of the ryze you were up against. It could be he was inexperienced, or maybe just wanted to play passively to get farm up, or any number of other things. The point being that he was making bad decisions, and you were not. You don't have to thread the needle with clutch binds to be more skillful than your opponent.
You could very well play a standard Morgana and still more more skillful than your opponent if they are making bad decisions (Such as not taking advantage of the matchup, or just not knowing their own champions abilities very well). That is why Skill is more relevant than champion matchups. Champion Matchups only matter when you are dealing with two players of similar skill. That is when the inherent abilities of the champion become the deciding factor. (Or in the case where one player is both more skillful AND chose a champ that is a bad matchup for you)
Now obviously there are many more factors involved (Jungle ganks, Specific builds, etc) but I still stand by my statement that at the end of the day the most important factor is the skill of the player.
And what I'm saying is that it's not a useful statement at the loading screen. If you winning the matchup relies on your opponent playing poorly, you should not put yourself in that position if you care about your win rate.
Purely from a jungle perspective, q gives way, way more damage than w, as its aoe does more damage and it gives 3 passive procs. In a gank leveling it is slightly worse, since if you use it as a gap closer you won't be hitting all the jumps. If you land 1 q hit, w is better. if you land more than on q, q is better.
That is before ratios, though if you include them, the same still holds true.
After the damage shift, q became much better to level up.
Note that if you're encountering long repeat engagements, W is better due to CDR reduction, whereas leveling Q just gives you damage.
Today I finally got the timing right to score some sweet sychronised requiem kills with Karthus. Usually it hits and brings them down to 5%, or lands just after they died.
Steam / Xbox Live: WSDX NNID: W-S-D-X 3DS FC: 2637-9461-8549
I don't understand these Ryze players at all. Get them mid as Morgana and they are barely throwing out Overload/attack harass, just sitting there farming. Their level 1-5 is so much more consistent...
which is silly because ryze should absolutely dominate morgana
Yeah, it's not a matchup I usually like doing, but I was rolling the dice. The other alternative was trading with Rend and sending Janna mid and using Morg as the support with Ashe vs Kog/Nunu.
I mean at worst I can keep dropping Soil to farm but seriously Morg should not win that matchup as hard I have the past two times.
Skill is more relevant than Champion matchups.
That's a nice pithy statement and all, but that doesn't mean you should send Lux mid when you see them take Talon if you have the opportunity to swap.
Like, maybe you say that or something because you think I was making good plays. I wasn't. They just weren't doing anything at all until I decided to kill them.
I didn't say that you should counter pick yourself, don't be obtuse. I'm saying that even if you find yourself in a position where you are up against your counter, or a champ that should be able to beat you the game still relies more on skill than the fact that X champ beats Y champ.
You don't have to make amazing plays if the person you are fighting is playing terribly. Not pressing the advantage was a bad decision on that part of the ryze you were up against. It could be he was inexperienced, or maybe just wanted to play passively to get farm up, or any number of other things. The point being that he was making bad decisions, and you were not. You don't have to thread the needle with clutch binds to be more skillful than your opponent.
You could very well play a standard Morgana and still more more skillful than your opponent if they are making bad decisions (Such as not taking advantage of the matchup, or just not knowing their own champions abilities very well). That is why Skill is more relevant than champion matchups. Champion Matchups only matter when you are dealing with two players of similar skill. That is when the inherent abilities of the champion become the deciding factor. (Or in the case where one player is both more skillful AND chose a champ that is a bad matchup for you)
Now obviously there are many more factors involved (Jungle ganks, Specific builds, etc) but I still stand by my statement that at the end of the day the most important factor is the skill of the player.
And what I'm saying is that it's not a useful statement at the loading screen. If you winning the matchup relies on your opponent playing poorly, you should not put yourself in that position if you care about your win rate.
You are missing the entire point.
I am not saying that you should assume your opponent will be bad, and I'm not saying you should purposefully counterpick yourself. I am saying, quite clearly, that the skill of the players involved is much more relevant to whether or not you will win your lane, than the matchup of the champions involved.
In your own example you did not want to take Morgana mid against Ryze. But because of how either the draft went, or for whatever reason that is where you ended up. I'm not saying you thought to yourself "Well this Ryze is probably bad, i'll choose Morgana against him". I'm saying that since you were forced into that situation you were lucky that the player you were against was not very skillful. He was unable to take advantage of the matchup that was in his favor. Now whether that is because you are just amazing, or because he was just terrible doesn't really matter. The point is that it was because of the skill disparity that you were able to come out ahead.
ERGO
Skill is more relevant than Champion matchups.
I'm not spouting some wild concept here.
Delphinidaes on
NNID: delphinidaes Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
0
Options
ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
Doran's Start should be fine although ganking will be really dicey afterwards. Just go cloth/pots and you gain some ability to counterjungle and gank more aggressively since you'll be at higher health. Doran's start is nice because sometimes if I get really far ahead early on I won't even build the Wriggles.
Runes ain't nothing special. AD/ArPen reds, AD quints, Armor yellows, flat cdr blues. Masteries are 21/9/0. Make sure you're spacing your abilities with autoattacks to use your passive. Bonus points if you cancel your autoattack animation into things.
I actually go qwe then r>q>e>w. With the damage increase to q it gives faster clear times and nice damage on champs as well.
The most important part of riven is that before level 3 you will take a ton of damage. But once you have the qwe combo you literally do not lose health from normal camps, and red/blue are easyish as well. Just remember that q resets auto timer, so auto>q>auto repeat and you clear those early camps a lot faster. If I can get a hard leash on red, ie one person leashing and another staying to hit it to close to smite range I start there with a dorans and gank at once. You come at level 2 as they reach lane with red, if they don't burn flash or heal they likely die if your lane knows what to do. If I do this I also give first blue to mid. If I can't get a good leash I go wolves>blue>wraiths>wolves>red and then either gank or keep farming depending on how it looks. After dorans, boots into wriggles. Then mercs/thirster and a GA.
I agree, after the damage changes going Q before W makes your life much better in the jungle. Early W is key for canceling the first round of attacks from jungle creeps (watch their windup and hit W in the middle, it will reset their attack animation and you won't take damage).
The only thing the changes did was make me level RWQE instead of RWEQ. I still want the CDR on W, and honestly by the time you hit level five it doesn't really matter what you're leveling, you should just be cruising through the jungle. And since I use the first two hits of Q to get in most of the time on ganks, the added damage is kind of a pittance anyways, especially since at lower levels the added damage per rank is 0/5/10/15/20, having level 2 Q before six isn't going to drastically increase your jungle time at all.
Maybe I'll try it, but the number one reason for leveling W has always been that it's the only ability that 1) reduces the cooldown with rank up and 2) all of her abilities have crazy good ratios so it's not that necessary to level something based on damage.
0
Options
SpectrumArcher of InfernoChaldea Rec RoomRegistered Userregular
I don't understand these Ryze players at all. Get them mid as Morgana and they are barely throwing out Overload/attack harass, just sitting there farming. Their level 1-5 is so much more consistent...
which is silly because ryze should absolutely dominate morgana
Yeah, it's not a matchup I usually like doing, but I was rolling the dice. The other alternative was trading with Rend and sending Janna mid and using Morg as the support with Ashe vs Kog/Nunu.
I mean at worst I can keep dropping Soil to farm but seriously Morg should not win that matchup as hard I have the past two times.
Skill is more relevant than Champion matchups.
That's a nice pithy statement and all, but that doesn't mean you should send Lux mid when you see them take Talon if you have the opportunity to swap.
Like, maybe you say that or something because you think I was making good plays. I wasn't. They just weren't doing anything at all until I decided to kill them.
I didn't say that you should counter pick yourself, don't be obtuse. I'm saying that even if you find yourself in a position where you are up against your counter, or a champ that should be able to beat you the game still relies more on skill than the fact that X champ beats Y champ.
You don't have to make amazing plays if the person you are fighting is playing terribly. Not pressing the advantage was a bad decision on that part of the ryze you were up against. It could be he was inexperienced, or maybe just wanted to play passively to get farm up, or any number of other things. The point being that he was making bad decisions, and you were not. You don't have to thread the needle with clutch binds to be more skillful than your opponent.
You could very well play a standard Morgana and still more more skillful than your opponent if they are making bad decisions (Such as not taking advantage of the matchup, or just not knowing their own champions abilities very well). That is why Skill is more relevant than champion matchups. Champion Matchups only matter when you are dealing with two players of similar skill. That is when the inherent abilities of the champion become the deciding factor. (Or in the case where one player is both more skillful AND chose a champ that is a bad matchup for you)
Now obviously there are many more factors involved (Jungle ganks, Specific builds, etc) but I still stand by my statement that at the end of the day the most important factor is the skill of the player.
And what I'm saying is that it's not a useful statement at the loading screen. If you winning the matchup relies on your opponent playing poorly, you should not put yourself in that position if you care about your win rate.
You are missing the entire point.
I am not saying that you should assume your opponent will be bad, and I'm not saying you should purposefully counterpick yourself. I am saying, quite clearly, that the skill of the players involved is much more relevant to whether or not you will win your lane, than the matchup of the champions involved.
In your own example you did not want to take Morgana mid against Ryze. But because of how either the draft went, or for whatever reason that is where you ended up. I'm not saying you thought to yourself "Well this Ryze is probably bad, i'll choose Morgana against him". I'm saying that since you were forced into that situation you were lucky that the player you were against was not very skillful. He was unable to take advantage of the matchup that was in his favor. Now whether that is because you are just amazing, or because he was just terrible doesn't really matter. The point is that it was because of the skill disparity that you were able to come out ahead.
ERGO
Skill is more relevant than Champion matchups.
I'm not spouting some wild concept here.
No, you're making a statement that has about as much usefulness as "Play better". You're explaining the reasoning behind it, which is not inaccurate, but it's not relevant to the actual scenarios.
Obviously skill is a pretty big factor in how a given match turns out. That doesn't actually matter when you don't know what's going on beforehand. It's not a useful evaluation after the fact, either, other than to say "well, I sure got lucky that guy was a mouthbreather".
Anyone ever take those computer adaptive tests where the questions get easier if you start getting several wrong in a row? Hidden ELO is supposed to work kind of like that, right?
I'll have a string of bad games and then end up jungle Nocturne in a game where mid Morgana doesn't take flash (went teleport/clarity) and pushes all the way to ur tower at level 2. It's like on the one hand I'm glad for the opportunity to just feast heartily on her stupidity, but on the other hand I feel bad about what it says about me that I'm matched up against her in the first place.
Edit: This was also the same game where our last pick is told to pick an AD carry (enemy team is sending Teemo/Alistar bot), picks Nasus, and says "it's ok I'll just farm."
I don't understand these Ryze players at all. Get them mid as Morgana and they are barely throwing out Overload/attack harass, just sitting there farming. Their level 1-5 is so much more consistent...
which is silly because ryze should absolutely dominate morgana
Yeah, it's not a matchup I usually like doing, but I was rolling the dice. The other alternative was trading with Rend and sending Janna mid and using Morg as the support with Ashe vs Kog/Nunu.
I mean at worst I can keep dropping Soil to farm but seriously Morg should not win that matchup as hard I have the past two times.
Skill is more relevant than Champion matchups.
That's a nice pithy statement and all, but that doesn't mean you should send Lux mid when you see them take Talon if you have the opportunity to swap.
Like, maybe you say that or something because you think I was making good plays. I wasn't. They just weren't doing anything at all until I decided to kill them.
I didn't say that you should counter pick yourself, don't be obtuse. I'm saying that even if you find yourself in a position where you are up against your counter, or a champ that should be able to beat you the game still relies more on skill than the fact that X champ beats Y champ.
You don't have to make amazing plays if the person you are fighting is playing terribly. Not pressing the advantage was a bad decision on that part of the ryze you were up against. It could be he was inexperienced, or maybe just wanted to play passively to get farm up, or any number of other things. The point being that he was making bad decisions, and you were not. You don't have to thread the needle with clutch binds to be more skillful than your opponent.
You could very well play a standard Morgana and still more more skillful than your opponent if they are making bad decisions (Such as not taking advantage of the matchup, or just not knowing their own champions abilities very well). That is why Skill is more relevant than champion matchups. Champion Matchups only matter when you are dealing with two players of similar skill. That is when the inherent abilities of the champion become the deciding factor. (Or in the case where one player is both more skillful AND chose a champ that is a bad matchup for you)
Now obviously there are many more factors involved (Jungle ganks, Specific builds, etc) but I still stand by my statement that at the end of the day the most important factor is the skill of the player.
And what I'm saying is that it's not a useful statement at the loading screen. If you winning the matchup relies on your opponent playing poorly, you should not put yourself in that position if you care about your win rate.
You are missing the entire point.
I am not saying that you should assume your opponent will be bad, and I'm not saying you should purposefully counterpick yourself. I am saying, quite clearly, that the skill of the players involved is much more relevant to whether or not you will win your lane, than the matchup of the champions involved.
In your own example you did not want to take Morgana mid against Ryze. But because of how either the draft went, or for whatever reason that is where you ended up. I'm not saying you thought to yourself "Well this Ryze is probably bad, i'll choose Morgana against him". I'm saying that since you were forced into that situation you were lucky that the player you were against was not very skillful. He was unable to take advantage of the matchup that was in his favor. Now whether that is because you are just amazing, or because he was just terrible doesn't really matter. The point is that it was because of the skill disparity that you were able to come out ahead.
ERGO
Skill is more relevant than Champion matchups.
I'm not spouting some wild concept here.
No, you're making a statement that has about as much usefulness as "Play better". You're explaining the reasoning behind it, which is not inaccurate, but it's not relevant to the actual scenarios.
Obviously skill is a pretty big factor in how a given match turns out. That doesn't actually matter when you don't know what's going on beforehand. It's not a useful evaluation after the fact, either, other than to say "well, I sure got lucky that guy was a mouthbreather".
That...is...the...entire...point.
I don't know why you are trying to read more deeply into my statement than that.
I don't understand these Ryze players at all. Get them mid as Morgana and they are barely throwing out Overload/attack harass, just sitting there farming. Their level 1-5 is so much more consistent...
I mean at worst I can keep dropping Soil to farm but seriously Morg should not win that matchup as hard I have the past two times.
By your own admission you should not have won those matchups. So either it was your own skill that was excellent, or they were "mouthbreathers". Unless there is some other factor that you are omitting. My statement was just that, a statement of why I think you won those matchups. If you want to liken it to me saying "Well you sure got lucky that guy was a mouthbreather" I don't have an objection to that, it's not inaccurate by your limited account of what transpired. If there are other mitigating factors (Ryze didn't get blue while you did, Jungle ganked the crap out of Ryze, etc) feel free to share them so we can get a better understanding of the situation.
But the only information you currently gave was that they were doing suboptimal things and that you beat them handily when you should have not. Therefore one can assume it was because of the skill disparity. (Personally I think your extensive familiarity with Ryze might have had a hand in it, but that ties back to your skill as well)
*edit* Also at no point was I giving you advice on your matchup, or what you could have done better (you won, what's the point?, obviously you did something right). I simply made the statement that you won because you were more skilled. For some reason unbeknownst to me you are trying to turn my statement into something it's not.
Or to clarify, why are you looking for "usefulness" in my statement?
Delphinidaes on
NNID: delphinidaes Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
Posts
bitches love burrs.
which is silly because ryze should absolutely dominate morgana
tumblr | instagram | twitter | steam
I mean at worst I can keep dropping Soil to farm but seriously Morg should not win that matchup as hard I have the past two times.
Skill is more relevant than Champion matchups.
Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
Like, maybe you say that or something because you think I was making good plays. I wasn't. They just weren't doing anything at all until I decided to kill them.
You end up getting fed a shit sandwich with nothing you can do about it.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/pablocampy
Do you start Cloth, Ward, pots?
I tried a Doran's start with jungle Riven. Got so low it was horrible. Tried Cloth+Pots. Same problem. I just can't figure out jungle Riven at all.
3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
I'm trying to find my feet with him again since the slight nerfs to his passive and the overall nerfs to life steal. The sustain was fine with the DB and the extra damage was nice, but the lack of a wriggles hurt in too many places: Dragon control, clear time and that vital ward for general Singah based shenanigans.
Being in a 5 man premade with two guys with significantly higher ELO than me (Hale and some other dude) and one of us not being on mumble was probably not the best game to test the viability though. Everywhere I tried to gank/invade was warded up the whizzer.
I've also tried a boots and pots starts for the early gank. If it goes wrong though; either through red resetting (WHY YOU FUCKING FUCK WHY?!?!) or a failgank then you're so fucked it's not worth it. I think I'll stick to good ol' vampiric sceptre start.
I tried Riven once in the jungle and also had sustain problems. I was fucking awful with her abilities too, but that would come with practice. I'll have another go with her when she comes up on free week again.
Currently loving the Mundo jungle, so good for counterjungling!
http://steamcommunity.com/id/pablocampy
Just played a game as graves where I'm lvl 5 and bot Ashe is lvl 1. Destroyed them. Should have snowballed easily but jarvan and GP had no clue how to team fight. They'd dive ahead recklessly and die. In situations where we had 3v2's or better. And it got worse in team fights.
Singed would run straight at me, I'd have to repositiOn or run away or risk dying, they'd run ahead recklessly, die, leaving
Me alive and maybe one other. I refused to let myself die pointlessly, and they kept saying I was trolling and in all chat to report me. Maybe try to protect your carry and actually team fight instead of playing deathmatch?
And I was the only person warding. Somehow we won, someone back doored. We had such a huge advantage, all towers but nexus down (so I think it was our minions that actually killed their nexus) but they just didn't understand the concept of team fights. They'd simply run ahead and die, then bitch and complain that I didn't die with them to give the enemy the ace, and calling me a troll.
Oh, and I got called a n00b for buying the item with 40% armor pen instead of black cleaver. With no protection I can't stick to a target long enough to get stacks
Oh well a win is a win.
I have AD runes for riven but dorans start should work great. I usually even give blue to mid to start.
I was running a page with AD Reds/Quints, Armor yellows and CDR blues. Maybe I need to look at masteries.
3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
For real. Looks so generic skull-face monster right now.
QEQW is the big thing for jungle Riven, not QWQE.
I can't remember exactly what I run, but I go up offense and defence for CDR. I believe the only real difference in my jungle/non jungle riven is the far right for the thorn type DMG to minions in defense.
Wow after that last game this game really made up for it.
Team was pretty awesome in pre game chat, although they questioned my 4th pick singed against first pick GP. From past experience, on both sides, it's favorable to singed, although both get low and junglers can sway the battle.
Enemy jungler is WW with no smite (WTF?) so I suggest we invade, or at the very least, skarner go boots/pots/ward and get the easy blue with WW doing all the work. We invade and thanks to my ghost/fling we get first blood. So I back for more pots (originally started mana crystal + pot, think I bought 2 more and. Ward) come to lane, and be very aggressive thanks to my pot advantage. I push to tower pretty recklessly, not really fearing WW pre 6, plus I have ward coverage and a bunch of pots.
Things don't go great in mid and bottom, team starts to get on each other, but me and jungle calm them down. WW has to end up helping GP quite abit, and I constantly remind team he's up top. I do my thing as singed, push to tower with gas getting most CS, and either go to mid to gank or if I see WW on map, counter jungle. I took red so many times.
We snowball pretty easily for a win while enemy is blaming each other. Think I died twice. One was me pushing top, WW comes to gank, I survive, and he stays up top for like two minutes. He already used his ult on me, mines still on CD, so I figure his is too. I bait him, fling him, only to find his is back up
Highlight, 3 times a teamate in chat says "that singed". At first I thought he was talking shit, but then I looked at my CS, GP's deaths, my kills, and realized it was a compliment.
I love singed. He provides a great tank while still building damage ( I rush RoA, merc treads, Ryalis. Pretty standard I think. Then I build according to strenghs an enemy team. In this case started on frozen (? Core? Defense + mana). I get AP and life . He provided great initiation. You can run straight at a squishy/carry to fling, get CC'd, and as long as you've played well, between your ultimate and merc treads your back to flinging that squishy to set up a 4v5. And even if you die, you've done enough DMG and helped initiate / made it apparent who to kill, that it doesn't matter.
Ive Carried as many different roles, but IMO, to carry solo que games, you want to have the ability to initiate, and initiate well, more so than be the DMG dealer.
Let's face it, you can do all the DMG in the world as an ad carry, but if your team
Falls apart and starts playing death match in team fights, you're likely to lose the game. Singed makes it easy mode to figure out who to kill IMO.
What? Who does this? QWEWW
QWE then R > W > Q > E
Doran's Start should be fine although ganking will be really dicey afterwards. Just go cloth/pots and you gain some ability to counterjungle and gank more aggressively since you'll be at higher health. Doran's start is nice because sometimes if I get really far ahead early on I won't even build the Wriggles.
Runes ain't nothing special. AD/ArPen reds, AD quints, Armor yellows, flat cdr blues. Masteries are 21/9/0. Make sure you're spacing your abilities with autoattacks to use your passive. Bonus points if you cancel your autoattack animation into things.
This is pretty much what I've been doing. I had two rune setups, one mastery setup, and things just weren't working too well.
Rune setup one: 10 ArmPen, 10 AD, 13 Armour, ~6% CDR
Rune setup two: 15 AD, 13 Armour, ~6% CDR
Masteries: 21/9/0 - +4 AD,+6 armpen, +AD/level. Armour, reduced damage from minions, HP/Scars
Cloth + Pots was better, and I just held onto the Cloth for a Guardian Angel (I didn't think Wriggles would be that useful on Riven for anything beyond the ward, tbh.)
Dorans start was horrifically painful, and I had to base after wolves, no way could I have taken Blue.
Started with Q. Walked to the back of Wraiths, hit the big one, Q as the others came in to hit all 4, AA, Q, AA, Q, AA to finish. Picked up E, went to red. Let them pull, AA, Q, AA etc until I got aggro, then E to soak up some damage with another AA, repeat. I wasn't timing the 3rd Q knockback to cancel their autoattacks - is this something you NEED to do in order to remain at high health? I'll try cancelling autos with abilities in future, see how that works.
Also, I had what could only be considered weird lag, too. My ping was -fine-, but sometimes I'd try to dash and she just wouldn't do it. No, it wasn't on CDR, no I wasn't lagging noticably, just for abilities. Does Smartcasting/smartcast range indicator sometimes mess with Riven's ability executions? Like she won't dash unless she can reach the mousepointer? I thought she'd just fling herself in the direction of your mousepointer regardless of where it was.
3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
It sounds like you went E second? You want ki strike for the stun and aoe damage second, which might be why you're having some trouble. If you're going wraiths -> red start you're going to want a pull on it, especially if you're doing dorans. This shouldn't be any harder for mid to pull, and if they put a little damage on wraiths you'll make it in plenty of time. Also using your first autoattack naked is a probably a waste of time, although I'd have to see the math for it. Just run in, Q the whole pack from the front, and immediately use your passive. Riven's Q starts cooling down the instant you use it, not the instant all three charges are burned.
Wriggles is pretty useful depending on how well you're doing. Wriggles still has good Riven stats (armor, ad, and lifesteal is all stuff she can use) and can really help with some clear times and dragon control with the proc. Sometimes trying to do dragon sucks if I have gone the 2 doran's blades and brutalizer early game route. Riven's biggest jungle issue is sustain, and unless you have the raw attack damage to power through it (like with the dorans and brutalizer), adding the lifesteal, proc, and armor goes a long way.
It's also important to be a mob wrangler, especially at early levels. Anecdotally, your Q hits everything in about a 180 degree arc in front of you, so if you don't position things like double golems or wolves correctly, you won't quite hit them all. This is where E can be really handy, since you can use it as a fast step to pull the mobs in around you closer.
Edit: Also consider Riven is the greatest ganker of all time, OF ALL TIME. Start wraiths, get a pull on red, and immediately gank a lane. Going Q -> W gives you a toooon of damage and CC early on. Find a lane out of position (obviously one of the two red adjacent lanes) and then Qx2 into range, hit W (autoattack), Q (autoattack) again. Take exhaust if you want to be a brave and sexy nerd baller who destroys all. Sometimes I'll start with a Shermanesque march to the lanes and start wolves, take enemy wraith camp (leaving one of course), take enemy large golem, and then you can come behind the enemy while your lane pushes them into you (i.e., if you started bottom, you can come from the enemy tri in top lane and you can yell PINCER STRIKE).
There is nothing to say that you have to do a full clear to four. Honestly, depending on how the lanes are pushing that early, I'd say that's something stupid. Junglers can hit 2 (and 3) pretty much faster than the lanes can that early on. Keep an eye out for where you can gank.
But I always push bot lane to enemy tower as ad carry with a support that wards. Go counter jungle while I get 30-40 cs ahead.
I actually go qwe then r>q>e>w. With the damage increase to q it gives faster clear times and nice damage on champs as well.
The most important part of riven is that before level 3 you will take a ton of damage. But once you have the qwe combo you literally do not lose health from normal camps, and red/blue are easyish as well. Just remember that q resets auto timer, so auto>q>auto repeat and you clear those early camps a lot faster. If I can get a hard leash on red, ie one person leashing and another staying to hit it to close to smite range I start there with a dorans and gank at once. You come at level 2 as they reach lane with red, if they don't burn flash or heal they likely die if your lane knows what to do. If I do this I also give first blue to mid. If I can't get a good leash I go wolves>blue>wraiths>wolves>red and then either gank or keep farming depending on how it looks. After dorans, boots into wriggles. Then mercs/thirster and a GA.
I've been in the situation you describe where teammates recklessly push lanes into ungankability but there are still things you can try to do.
Every time they walk an inch away from their turrets, boom, one of us is there. Between my root and Trynd's slow, there's just nothing they can do. The only lane that manages to snowball is top because he's Singed and he goes tanky and can't easily be ganked over and over.
Fifteen minutes in the score is something like 15-4 in our favor and their Vlad has just been annihilated over and over again. We constantly caught their Ziggs out and pushed all lanes constantly while taking the majority of Warwick's jungle farm while we were at it.
We dominated them... Granted we were all playing champs that are extremely strong on their own, but man, that was epic.
Steam: Jacobontap
LoL: FutureBlues
It requires good warding and good teammates, but a well executed counter gank is amazing. So many kills in so little time.
I agree, after the damage changes going Q before W makes your life much better in the jungle. Early W is key for canceling the first round of attacks from jungle creeps (watch their windup and hit W in the middle, it will reset their attack animation and you won't take damage).
That is before ratios, though if you include them, the same still holds true.
After the damage shift, q became much better to level up.
I didn't say that you should counter pick yourself, don't be obtuse. I'm saying that even if you find yourself in a position where you are up against your counter, or a champ that should be able to beat you the game still relies more on skill than the fact that X champ beats Y champ.
You don't have to make amazing plays if the person you are fighting is playing terribly. Not pressing the advantage was a bad decision on that part of the ryze you were up against. It could be he was inexperienced, or maybe just wanted to play passively to get farm up, or any number of other things. The point being that he was making bad decisions, and you were not. You don't have to thread the needle with clutch binds to be more skillful than your opponent.
You could very well play a standard Morgana and still more more skillful than your opponent if they are making bad decisions (Such as not taking advantage of the matchup, or just not knowing their own champions abilities very well). That is why Skill is more relevant than champion matchups. Champion Matchups only matter when you are dealing with two players of similar skill. That is when the inherent abilities of the champion become the deciding factor. (Or in the case where one player is both more skillful AND chose a champ that is a bad matchup for you)
Now obviously there are many more factors involved (Jungle ganks, Specific builds, etc) but I still stand by my statement that at the end of the day the most important factor is the skill of the player.
Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
Note that if you're encountering long repeat engagements, W is better due to CDR reduction, whereas leveling Q just gives you damage.
You are missing the entire point.
I am not saying that you should assume your opponent will be bad, and I'm not saying you should purposefully counterpick yourself. I am saying, quite clearly, that the skill of the players involved is much more relevant to whether or not you will win your lane, than the matchup of the champions involved.
In your own example you did not want to take Morgana mid against Ryze. But because of how either the draft went, or for whatever reason that is where you ended up. I'm not saying you thought to yourself "Well this Ryze is probably bad, i'll choose Morgana against him". I'm saying that since you were forced into that situation you were lucky that the player you were against was not very skillful. He was unable to take advantage of the matchup that was in his favor. Now whether that is because you are just amazing, or because he was just terrible doesn't really matter. The point is that it was because of the skill disparity that you were able to come out ahead.
ERGO
Skill is more relevant than Champion matchups.
I'm not spouting some wild concept here.
Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
The only thing the changes did was make me level RWQE instead of RWEQ. I still want the CDR on W, and honestly by the time you hit level five it doesn't really matter what you're leveling, you should just be cruising through the jungle. And since I use the first two hits of Q to get in most of the time on ganks, the added damage is kind of a pittance anyways, especially since at lower levels the added damage per rank is 0/5/10/15/20, having level 2 Q before six isn't going to drastically increase your jungle time at all.
Maybe I'll try it, but the number one reason for leveling W has always been that it's the only ability that 1) reduces the cooldown with rank up and 2) all of her abilities have crazy good ratios so it's not that necessary to level something based on damage.
Obviously skill is a pretty big factor in how a given match turns out. That doesn't actually matter when you don't know what's going on beforehand. It's not a useful evaluation after the fact, either, other than to say "well, I sure got lucky that guy was a mouthbreather".
http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Sale
I'll have a string of bad games and then end up jungle Nocturne in a game where mid Morgana doesn't take flash (went teleport/clarity) and pushes all the way to ur tower at level 2. It's like on the one hand I'm glad for the opportunity to just feast heartily on her stupidity, but on the other hand I feel bad about what it says about me that I'm matched up against her in the first place.
Edit: This was also the same game where our last pick is told to pick an AD carry (enemy team is sending Teemo/Alistar bot), picks Nasus, and says "it's ok I'll just farm."
That...is...the...entire...point.
I don't know why you are trying to read more deeply into my statement than that.
By your own admission you should not have won those matchups. So either it was your own skill that was excellent, or they were "mouthbreathers". Unless there is some other factor that you are omitting. My statement was just that, a statement of why I think you won those matchups. If you want to liken it to me saying "Well you sure got lucky that guy was a mouthbreather" I don't have an objection to that, it's not inaccurate by your limited account of what transpired. If there are other mitigating factors (Ryze didn't get blue while you did, Jungle ganked the crap out of Ryze, etc) feel free to share them so we can get a better understanding of the situation.
But the only information you currently gave was that they were doing suboptimal things and that you beat them handily when you should have not. Therefore one can assume it was because of the skill disparity. (Personally I think your extensive familiarity with Ryze might have had a hand in it, but that ties back to your skill as well)
*edit* Also at no point was I giving you advice on your matchup, or what you could have done better (you won, what's the point?, obviously you did something right). I simply made the statement that you won because you were more skilled. For some reason unbeknownst to me you are trying to turn my statement into something it's not.
Or to clarify, why are you looking for "usefulness" in my statement?
Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!