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[Game of Thrones] Compare/contrast the TV Show and Book here, not in the other thread!

RenaissanceDanRenaissanceDan Registered User
edited April 2012 in Debate and/or Discourse
This kept coming up in the TV show discussion thread, so here's a place to come after episodes air to discuss the (sometimes significantly) different approach to characters/plot points in the TV show as compared to the Books.


This includes, but is not limited to, physical appearance (I thought The Dog would look like Dog the Bounty Hunter!), changing of details (Daenerys's age), different framing (her relationship with Drogo), etc.
The problem people had with going to the book thread is, there was a lot of non-tagged spoiler stuff, and stuff from the entire series of the books. This thread will still keep pace with the TV show, but will be entirely devoted to comparing the events in the episodes with the same events in the books.

A couple guidelines (beyond all the normal forum rules stuff):

1. No discussion of things that have not occurred in the TV show yet. There wasn't much of that happening before in the TV ONLY thread, so let's keep it that way. This includes things like "Oh, you'll find out more about them later." If you're not sure, don't.

2. Spoiler tag things that happened in the most recent and previous week's episodes. Don't worry about tagging anything from Season 1 anymore. Also, this means if you're more than 2 episodes behind, you probably wanna catch up before reading the most recent posts.

New Episodes air Sunday evenings on HBO!

This post is plain until I have time to tighten it up/make it handsome. If someone wants to do that for my thieving pleasure, feel free. I hunted for threads like this, did not see any, so also let me know if it's redundant (with a link to the other one so I can join in the discussion).

ANYWAY!

A couple of topics to start off on that were hushed in the previous thread:

From 4/1/12:
Daenerys is 13 in the books, not at least 18, and her character progression is significantly different as a result! She gets to about the same place, but the journey from scared little girl to Khaleesi of Dragons is a little different than from someone who had another 5 years of being abused/creeped on by Viserys.

RenaissanceDan on
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Posts

  • reVersereVerse regular Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Season 2 episode 1
    I didn't mind the little spat Littlefinger had with Cersei in the season opener. Littlefinger does come across as a cocky bastard, even if in the books he's always composed and perfect. Everyone needs a character flaw or two, all the interesting characters have those. It also adds a little extra something to the personal dynamics between the two which is always a good thing.

    reVerse on
  • syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    reVerse wrote: »
    I didn't mind the little spat Littlefinger had with Cersei in the season opener. Littlefinger does come across as a cocky bastard, even if in the books he's always composed and perfect. Everyone needs a character flaw or two. It also adds a little extra something to the personal dynamics between the two which is always a good thing.

    That spat was very interesting.

    Littlefinger, as a character, is being far less cagey on television than he is in the books up to this point. His telling of the Hound's story, to
    openly taunting Cersei's incest...
    these are actions I normally would not correlate to Littlefinger in the novel.

    But I really like how it looks on him. There is almost a dash of hubris thrown into the mix with his TV character, andI personally feel that it just makes sense.

    SW-4158-3990-6116
    Let's play Mario Kart or something...
  • RenaissanceDanRenaissanceDan Registered User
    reVerse wrote: »
    I didn't mind the little spat Littlefinger had with Cersei in the season opener. Littlefinger does come across as a cocky bastard, even if in the books he's always composed and perfect. Everyone needs a character flaw or two. It also adds a little extra something to the personal dynamics between the two which is always a good thing.

    Was that new in the show? I seem to remember that happening in the book, but I could be making that up because of how well it fits. He tries to play the same game he plays with Varys all the time, and gets put in his place. It was nice to see the little weasel scared.

  • reVersereVerse regular Registered User regular
    reVerse wrote: »
    I didn't mind the little spat Littlefinger had with Cersei in the season opener. Littlefinger does come across as a cocky bastard, even if in the books he's always composed and perfect. Everyone needs a character flaw or two. It also adds a little extra something to the personal dynamics between the two which is always a good thing.

    Was that new in the show? I seem to remember that happening in the book, but I could be making that up because of how well it fits. He tries to play the same game he plays with Varys all the time, and gets put in his place. It was nice to see the little weasel scared.

    Neither of those characters had PoVs in book 2.

  • RenaissanceDanRenaissanceDan Registered User
    edited April 2012
    reVerse wrote: »
    reVerse wrote: »
    I didn't mind the little spat Littlefinger had with Cersei in the season opener. Littlefinger does come across as a cocky bastard, even if in the books he's always composed and perfect. Everyone needs a character flaw or two. It also adds a little extra something to the personal dynamics between the two which is always a good thing.

    Was that new in the show? I seem to remember that happening in the book, but I could be making that up because of how well it fits. He tries to play the same game he plays with Varys all the time, and gets put in his place. It was nice to see the little weasel scared.

    Neither of those characters had PoVs in book 2.

    Alright, put that way, that makes me remember it better. So cool, guess that passes the "I did not notice it's addition" test pretty well.

    Regarding Littlefinger, I can't really see how anyone watching the show ever thought he was on Eddard Stark's side.

    Show Littlefinger: Clearly a smarmy, manipulative ass from the beginning. Someone you should not trust, even a little bit. He even told you. Geeze. Take a hint.
    Book Littlefinger: Hard to pin down, led Eddard by the nose, but was apparently helping him (until his ultimate betrayal led to a bad haircut for poor Lord Stark)

    In the books, Varys came off a lot more sinister than he did in the show. I kind of felt both were a little more obvious in the show than in the books. Anyone else?

    RenaissanceDan on
  • XeddicusXeddicus regular Registered User regular
    Going back to episode 1 of season 1 because this just irked me at the time: They so should have kept in Robert's and Ned's conversation about Rhaegar and worked in the 'flashback' one way or another. It probably was too vague and another character to throw on the pile, but it really helped Robert's character: "I vowed to kill Rhaegar for what he did to her." "You did." "Only once.". Even just that exchange props Robert up more as he was instead of as he is now. That and "Promise me." seemed cut for no reason.

    "For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
  • syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    reVerse wrote: »
    reVerse wrote: »
    I didn't mind the little spat Littlefinger had with Cersei in the season opener. Littlefinger does come across as a cocky bastard, even if in the books he's always composed and perfect. Everyone needs a character flaw or two. It also adds a little extra something to the personal dynamics between the two which is always a good thing.

    Was that new in the show? I seem to remember that happening in the book, but I could be making that up because of how well it fits. He tries to play the same game he plays with Varys all the time, and gets put in his place. It was nice to see the little weasel scared.

    Neither of those characters had PoVs in book 2.

    Alright, put that way, that makes me remember it better. So cool, guess that passes the "I did not notice it's addition" test pretty well.

    Regarding Littlefinger, I can't really see how anyone watching the show ever thought he was on Eddard Stark's side.

    Show Littlefinger: Clearly a smarmy, manipulative ass from the beginning. Someone you should not trust, even a little bit. He even told you. Geeze. Take a hint.
    Book Littlefinger: Hard to pin down, led Eddard by the nose, but was apparently helping him (until his ultimate betrayal led to a bad haircut for poor Lord Stark)

    In the books, Varys came off a lot more sinister than he did in the show. I kind of felt both were a little more obvious in the show than in the books. Anyone else?

    They obviously were more obvious. Littlefinger's now-famous lesbian sexposition scene laid it all on the table in a way that practically force-fed you the nature of his character.

    Varys's interactions are also more obvious - the conversation in the throne room between Varys and Littlefinger was wholly fabricated for the show, and while I loved the scene immensely, it revealed a lot more about both men than the book had by that point.

    SW-4158-3990-6116
    Let's play Mario Kart or something...
  • SchadenfreudeSchadenfreude Mean Mister Mustard Registered User regular
    Does he not make reference to 'killing him in his dreams every night' when he's in the crypt though? You don't know who it is right away but it becomes apparent. Did the job for me anyway.

    Contemplate this on the Tree of Woe
  • reVersereVerse regular Registered User regular
    I personally like the tv versions of Varys and Littlefinger more than the books. Sansa, too.

  • valiancevaliance regular Registered User regular
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    Going back to episode 1 of season 1 because this just irked me at the time: They so should have kept in Robert's and Ned's conversation about Rhaegar and worked in the 'flashback' one way or another. It probably was too vague and another character to throw on the pile, but it really helped Robert's character: "I vowed to kill Rhaegar for what he did to her." "You did." "Only once.". Even just that exchange props Robert up more as he was instead of as he is now. That and "Promise me." seemed cut for no reason.

    Yeah I've been wondering how they tie in Rhaegar and Lyanna's importance without all the little hints littered throughout book 1.

  • JoshmviiJoshmvii regular Registered User regular
    To me, casting Carcetti from the Wire as Littlefinger was the 2nd best casting they did in the show, after Dinklage as Tyrion. He's just phenomenal.

  • NobodyNobody regular Registered User regular
    reVerse wrote: »
    I personally like the tv versions of Varys and Littlefinger more than the books. Sansa, too.

    Same, Sansa especially. Her constant POVs in a couple of the books is actually what pretty much drove me from them.

  • EvermournEvermourn regular Registered User regular
    It could just be that it's been awhile since I read book 1, but the TV show gave me more of an impression of just what a bad king and husband Robert was, and what an impossible postion that put Ned in. Certainly made Cersei's position a bit more understandable.

  • KanaKana regular Registered User regular
    Joshmvii wrote: »
    To me, casting Carcetti from the Wire as Littlefinger was the 2nd best casting they did in the show, after Dinklage as Tyrion. He's just phenomenal.

    It's funny, as soon as I heard he was getting cast I was thrilled. And yet the Littlefinger he's delivering is totally not the one I had in my head, and his characterization in general is a bit off from the books.

    But that's OK, TV!Littlefinger is a pretty interesting character too. In the books he always seems very in control, whereas on TV there's just generally a little something off in the way he behaves. A little bit of craziness peeking in from behind the facade. So to me in was understandable that he'd try to play his "I know you know I know" game against Cersei once she started needling him about him childhood and Catelyn.

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
  • TomantaTomanta regular Registered User regular
    My biggest disappointment in the show vs. books so far has been that Tyrion didn't ride into battle with the hill tribes.

    I understand why (time and budget), but it was still disappointing.

  • Atlas in ChainsAtlas in Chains regular Registered User regular
    Tomanta wrote: »
    My biggest disappointment in the show vs. books so far has been that Tyrion didn't ride into battle with the hill tribes.

    I understand why (time and budget), but it was still disappointing.

    Why ride to battle when you can take a time-travel hammer to the face?

    I don't think the show did enough to emphasize just how large a man Gregor is. His only real contrast was against Loras, who is a 96 pound twink, and the Hound, who is a very large man himself. That and I think the show is losing all the subtlety of the books.

    On the plus side, Arya is awesome. The King in the North is awesome. Jon Snow looks right, but he lays the emo on way too thick, which is saying something for a very emo character. Dolorous Edd spoke one line and he was instantly recognizable as Dolorous Edd.

  • ShadowenShadowen Snores in the morning Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    My biggest problem is Ros.

    And if what I've heard is accurate, it only gets work next ep.

    They should mark her scenes in the script with GNDN, like the conduits and stuff on the original Star Trek.

    Shadowen on
  • ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor regular Registered User regular
    Shadowen wrote: »
    My biggest problem is Ros.

    And if what I've heard is accurate, it only gets work next ep.

    They should mark her scenes in the script with GNDN, like the conduits and stuff on the original Star Trek.

    Not sure what you're referring to with GNDN, but If they're going to use her in place of a certain prostitute, then I think it makes sense from the standpoint of not introducing more new characters than necessary.

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    valiance wrote: »
    Xeddicus wrote: »
    Going back to episode 1 of season 1 because this just irked me at the time: They so should have kept in Robert's and Ned's conversation about Rhaegar and worked in the 'flashback' one way or another. It probably was too vague and another character to throw on the pile, but it really helped Robert's character: "I vowed to kill Rhaegar for what he did to her." "You did." "Only once.". Even just that exchange props Robert up more as he was instead of as he is now. That and "Promise me." seemed cut for no reason.

    Yeah I've been wondering how they tie in Rhaegar and Lyanna's importance without all the little hints littered throughout book 1.

    It's almost certainly because they don't want to introduce plotlines that won't be paid off for years now.

  • ShadowenShadowen Snores in the morning Registered User regular
    Shadowen wrote: »
    My biggest problem is Ros.

    And if what I've heard is accurate, it only gets work next ep.

    They should mark her scenes in the script with GNDN, like the conduits and stuff on the original Star Trek.

    Not sure what you're referring to with GNDN, but If they're going to use her in place of a certain prostitute, then I think it makes sense from the standpoint of not introducing more new characters than necessary.

    Her scenes go nowhere and do nothing.

  • ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor regular Registered User regular
    Shadowen wrote: »
    Shadowen wrote: »
    My biggest problem is Ros.

    And if what I've heard is accurate, it only gets work next ep.

    They should mark her scenes in the script with GNDN, like the conduits and stuff on the original Star Trek.

    Not sure what you're referring to with GNDN, but If they're going to use her in place of a certain prostitute, then I think it makes sense from the standpoint of not introducing more new characters than necessary.

    Her scenes go nowhere and do nothing.
    Ah. Concur, she has merely served as window dressing for exposition. With her apparent promotion I'm curious if she's actually going to find a purpose in a modified Chataya or Alayaya role.

  • dojangodojango regular Registered User regular
    reVerse wrote: »
    I didn't mind the little spat Littlefinger had with Cersei in the season opener. Littlefinger does come across as a cocky bastard, even if in the books he's always composed and perfect. Everyone needs a character flaw or two. It also adds a little extra something to the personal dynamics between the two which is always a good thing.

    Was that new in the show? I seem to remember that happening in the book, but I could be making that up because of how well it fits. He tries to play the same game he plays with Varys all the time, and gets put in his place. It was nice to see the little weasel scared.

    I didn't like it because:
    Littlefinger is turned from a selfish bastard who bites the hand that feeds him into someone with a personal motive to screw with the Lannisters. I liked him as the former better, since it makes him a better character. Of course, Cersei/Jeoffery are clearly being set up as the main baddies for the TV show.

  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger regular Registered User regular
    I think they should accept talky scenes a bit more. Basically saying "This is a boring bit, here's tits for people who don't like to think" is pretty patronizing. I suspect they are turning off more female viewers than turning on male viewers! The whole thing about GOT is that it is a bit cleverer than the average fantasy show, and putting in a bunch of dumb, dead-end sex scenes for the male gaze just undermines that. They are generally girl-on-girl anyway, or with an unattractive man, so there is nothing for the straight woman here.

  • Zombie HeroZombie Hero regular Registered User regular
    I really think the Varys actor does a really good job at being creepy.

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  • TarantioTarantio regular Registered User regular
    I think they should accept talky scenes a bit more. Basically saying "This is a boring bit, here's tits for people who don't like to think" is pretty patronizing. I suspect they are turning off more female viewers than turning on male viewers! The whole thing about GOT is that it is a bit cleverer than the average fantasy show, and putting in a bunch of dumb, dead-end sex scenes for the male gaze just undermines that. They are generally girl-on-girl anyway, or with an unattractive man, so there is nothing for the straight woman here.

    Aside from Grand Maester Pycelle, what guys were unattractive? At least Drogo and Theon are decent, right?

    Actually, it's occurred to be that Loras and Lancel were probably cast to appeal to the same subset of the audience.

  • Book Catelyn treats Jon like crap. They didn't show it enough in the TV show. It made TV Cat much more likable than Book Cat.

  • CelestialBadgerCelestialBadger regular Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Tarantio wrote: »
    At least Drogo and Theon are decent, right?.

    Drogo was the main bit of fanservice for the ladies! :)

    Well, at least after he stopped being rapey anyway.

    CelestialBadger on
  • EvermournEvermourn regular Registered User regular
    starlime wrote: »
    Book Catelyn treats Jon like crap. They didn't show it enough in the TV show. It made TV Cat much more likable than Book Cat.
    I dunno, I thought the actress conveyed it pretty well with just a look in the opening scenes in episode 1 (when she looks at Jon from the balcony). I was watching it with people who hadn't read the books, and it came through loud and clear for them.

  • ED!ED! regular Registered User regular
    Kana wrote: »
    Joshmvii wrote: »
    To me, casting Carcetti from the Wire as Littlefinger was the 2nd best casting they did in the show, after Dinklage as Tyrion. He's just phenomenal.

    It's funny, as soon as I heard he was getting cast I was thrilled. And yet the Littlefinger he's delivering is totally not the one I had in my head, and his characterization in general is a bit off from the books.

    But that's OK, TV!Littlefinger is a pretty interesting character too. In the books he always seems very in control, whereas on TV there's just generally a little something off in the way he behaves. A little bit of craziness peeking in from behind the facade. So to me in was understandable that he'd try to play his "I know you know I know" game against Cersei once she started needling him about him childhood and Catelyn.

    Littflefinger is pretty crazy in the book; not off the wall crazy but he certainly isn't Mr. Straight Arrow. He just also happens to be crafty and responsible for most of the nastiness that occurs in the book.

    "Get the hell out of me" - [ex]girlfriend
  • BethrynBethryn regular Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    On the subject of appearances:
    Meli looks great.
    Stannis looks great.
    Davos looks thicker-set than I was expecting; given his past, I expected a rather thinner guy.
    Ser Dontos looks super-different; I wasn't expecting mutton-chops and portliness at all there.
    Craster is surprisingly well groomed for a daughter-fucking wildling dickbag. Like others, I was expecting closer to Frey for Craster.


    And yeah, Littlefinger is being played so overtly in the TV series compared to how he is in the books. Very strange, especially given who he's taunting. He can taunt Varys because he knows he's better than Varys; Cersei on the other hand he should already know is a cagey bitch when she's insulted...

    Bethryn on
  • Salvation122Salvation122 regular Registered User regular
    I absolutely hate the Cersei/Littlefinger scene because there is now no rational reason for Littlefinger to have survived while remaining true to the characters.

    Sure, Cersei wouldn't have necessarily killed him right there, but an accident would probably have befallen him shortly thereafter. Meanwhile, Littlefinger took a gigantic risk for no possible gain. The whole thing was just kind of dumb.

    sig.png
  • mcdermottmcdermott regular Registered User regular
    Nobody wrote: »
    reVerse wrote: »
    I personally like the tv versions of Varys and Littlefinger more than the books. Sansa, too.

    Same, Sansa especially. Her constant POVs in a couple of the books is actually what pretty much drove me from them.

    Oh man, yeah. I think we all have to have a couple POV characters that just drive us nuts. The ones where when you turn the page and see that fucking name you just wind up putting it down for a bit until you can bring yourself to listen to their bullshit for a chapter.

    I can't say who mine is, for spoilerific reasons.

    But man, every. fucking. time.

    I think last time I put it down for nearly a month.

  • RenaissanceDanRenaissanceDan Registered User
    I saw Ser Barristan Selmy as Patrick Stewart, when I was reading the books. I'm not upset at the casting. I just assume every distinguished, bald/balding older gentleman is Patrick Stewart until proven otherwise.

  • KanaKana regular Registered User regular
    It's not as if Littlefinger is letting a cat out of the bag. The letter about Joffrey's parentage has already reached the city (and everywhere else), everyone's already read about it. He's not trying for blackmail, he's just trying to push back a little. And the reason he was trying to push back was because Cersei was poking him about his childhood, which's always been his big sore spot. And Cersei's not going to just kill him for a little bit of implication in one sentence, she considers Littlefinger beneath her. Just like the angry peasants are a threat to her, but she's never going to treat them seriously either.

    The TV series is not the book series, it's pointless to complain about them having differences. Fine, your conception of the book character wouldn't have that conversation with your conception of that other book character. That doesn't mean anything to the quality of the scene in the adaptation though. Just because it's not characterizing Littlefinger in quite the same way doesn't matter, Shae's totally different, Osha's pretty different, Robb's more fleshed out, Sansa's not actually very annoying, Catelyn's not as much of a bitch and Cersei is actually smart instead of just Smarter-than-Ned-and-Sansa.

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
  • override367override367 ALL minions Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    S02E02 spoiler
    was it ever official in the books that Stannis and Melisandre were banging?

    I had assumed so but I don't think we're ever explicitly told that. Not that I mind, as the actress is very nice

    General season 2: I am extremely pleased with Stannis. The show creators have done a great job laying Stannis' lawful neutralness bare with very little screentime. One thing with the show is I wish they had "Extended cuts" of each episode for the dvd/br release

    override367 on
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum regular Registered User regular
    S02E02 spoiler
    was it ever official in the books that Stannis and Melisandre were banging?

    I had assumed so but I don't think we're ever explicitly told that. Not that I mind, as the actress is very nice

    General season 2: I am extremely pleased with Stannis. The show creators have done a great job laying Stannis' lawful neutralness bare with very little screentime. One thing with the show is I wish they had "Extended cuts" of each episode for the dvd/br release
    It is HEAVILY implied, when she and Davos go on their trip to kill the knight defending Storm's End. But I don't think stated outright. The subtlety is about at the level of "nudge nudge wink wink say no more" though.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
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  • RenaissanceDanRenaissanceDan Registered User
    Kana wrote: »
    It's not as if Littlefinger is letting a cat out of the bag. The letter about Joffrey's parentage has already reached the city (and everywhere else), everyone's already read about it. He's not trying for blackmail, he's just trying to push back a little. And the reason he was trying to push back was because Cersei was poking him about his childhood, which's always been his big sore spot. And Cersei's not going to just kill him for a little bit of implication in one sentence, she considers Littlefinger beneath her. Just like the angry peasants are a threat to her, but she's never going to treat them seriously either.

    The TV series is not the book series, it's pointless to complain about them having differences. Fine, your conception of the book character wouldn't have that conversation with your conception of that other book character. That doesn't mean anything to the quality of the scene in the adaptation though. Just because it's not characterizing Littlefinger in quite the same way doesn't matter, Shae's totally different, Osha's pretty different, Robb's more fleshed out, Sansa's not actually very annoying, Catelyn's not as much of a bitch and Cersei is actually smart instead of just Smarter-than-Ned-and-Sansa.

    I didn't think we were complaining. Just contrasting and commenting. Discussing the differences is interesting. If it irritates you that we're engaging in a topic that 'doesn't matter', I'm sorry?

  • TomantaTomanta regular Registered User regular
    I don't see any difference with Sansa in the show and Sansa in the books.

    Except we aren't seeing her inner monologue which helps make her less annoying. Barely. She was pretty intolerable in season one (to Sophie Turner's credit).

  • RenaissanceDanRenaissanceDan Registered User
    Tomanta wrote: »
    I don't see any difference with Sansa in the show and Sansa in the books.

    Except we aren't seeing her inner monologue which helps make her less annoying. Barely. She was pretty intolerable in season one (to Sophie Turner's credit).

    Yeah, I don't get all the Sansa hate. Admittedly, the EARLY chapters with her were kind of lame with the "Oh, la la, I'm gonna marry a Prince. My sister is dirty and stupid. I like sewing" into unhinged PTSD Sansa, which you kinda get in the show, but was pretty dramatic/compelling in the book.

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    S02E02 spoiler
    was it ever official in the books that Stannis and Melisandre were banging?

    I had assumed so but I don't think we're ever explicitly told that. Not that I mind, as the actress is very nice

    General season 2: I am extremely pleased with Stannis. The show creators have done a great job laying Stannis' lawful neutralness bare with very little screentime. One thing with the show is I wish they had "Extended cuts" of each episode for the dvd/br release
    It is HEAVILY implied, when she and Davos go on their trip to kill the knight defending Storm's End. But I don't think stated outright. The subtlety is about at the level of "nudge nudge wink wink say no more" though.
    My memory is that it's heavily implied they had sex to make the crazy shadow-baby-killer-things, but that whether they just had sex regularly is sort of vaguely potentially implied only.

This discussion has been closed.