At the start, yes, in a mechanical sense. I think it's fair to assume that survivor neutrals typically align with the village in trying to kill mafia, so I sort of counted them as village in the original tally (making it more like 70%). If that's a point of contention, fair enough, but the core mechanic doesn't really work any other way, so without drastically changing the game, not a lot of other options.
By the way, Obi etc. For days, I had to listen to you guys talking about how Smoove got "caught in a lie about talking to me when he actually never did talk to me". He did talk to me, and it's on our proboard. Did you guys never use the Search function hahaha? I mean, it worked out 'cause he was totally evil anyways, but still, it's the principle of the thing.
Oh, and when your goddess tells you not to trust kime, you are not to trust kime. I couldn't believe none of you picked up on
1) He repeated "brood are host confirmed village, and i am brood" a dozen times and then he
2) died as a gene, not a brood. Then he
3) turned up purple as well.
Rolling in my grave that my poor children had to suffer.
I will admit to being kind of upset at that point, so my judgement may have been questionable when I thought you already had a mark. It's very possible you didn't, and I apologize for that. I just know you hadn't been posting much, and that missing a day when there are like, 10 players left is kind of important.
0
ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
By the way, Obi etc. For days, I had to listen to you guys talking about how Smoove got "caught in a lie about talking to me when he actually never did talk to me". He did talk to me, and it's on our proboard. Did you guys never use the Search function hahaha? I mean, it worked out 'cause he was totally evil anyways, but still, it's the principle of the thing.
I searched it so many times to be sure. Didn't find anything about you talking to Smoove and him being a guard.
Really, if anyone should be angry, it's the mafia. 2 SK and a vlad-like cultist? they didn't have much of a chance
Not angry, I had accepted that we HAD to trust Obi/Tayrun once it came to light that there were 2 "village" factions. If they screwed us, they screwed us. Not much choice. Turns out they screwed us :P
also @DumpShock still hearts between us forever, right?
By the way, Obi etc. For days, I had to listen to you guys talking about how Smoove got "caught in a lie about talking to me when he actually never did talk to me". He did talk to me, and it's on our proboard. Did you guys never use the Search function hahaha? I mean, it worked out 'cause he was totally evil anyways, but still, it's the principle of the thing.
I searched it so many times to be sure. Didn't find anything about you talking to Smoove and him being a guard.
Glad it worked out, though.
Well it's, uh... there. Search for "Smoove"? Make sure you have enough results showing and whatnot, haha.
Really, if anyone should be angry, it's the mafia. 2 SK and a vlad-like cultist? they didn't have much of a chance
The mafia were definitely not set up to go toe to toe with the village, but the SKs etc were designed to level the playing field. Unfortunately for them, Gaslight helped you guys for a turn or two, and Teepo was (mostly) helping the village for most of the game.
Myria was almost impossible to kill short of very strong Dragon Powers or a very concentrated effort (or... the vote, of course), so they definitely had fair strength, but it was probably wrong to have their vigs tied up in one character.
AkimboLegs on
0
ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
I got caught on so many lies, I thought for sure you and langly were on to me. I guess the "Brood are allies" part clouded it.
Langly had actually caught onto the HP lie. But we didn't have any other vigs
Yeah, I scrambled hard on that one and made up some horrible lie about akimbo messing up my PM.
I learned I am horrible at keeping lies straight.
And Smoove, I thought you were going to screw us for sure. The only smart play from my point of view was for mafia and village to team up at the end there and vote me out. And vig someone else in the cult. Then mafia probably could have won the game or at least decided who won.
By the way, Obi etc. For days, I had to listen to you guys talking about how Smoove got "caught in a lie about talking to me when he actually never did talk to me". He did talk to me, and it's on our proboard. Did you guys never use the Search function hahaha? I mean, it worked out 'cause he was totally evil anyways, but still, it's the principle of the thing.
I searched it so many times to be sure. Didn't find anything about you talking to Smoove and him being a guard.
Glad it worked out, though.
Well it's, uh... there. Search for "Smoove"? Make sure you have enough results showing and whatnot, haha.
And yeah, poor mafia
Hey kime, I was doing my best to keep everything else straight! Mess ups like that were bound to happen.
Also, how far was my "guard" bit taking me? Did anyone buy it?
We knew you were mafia. I never believed you and only matev for a day. That was only because we knew all the roles already, we just didn't know about the brood not actually being trustworthy.
Also, it is the exact opposite with survivor neutrals. They tend to side with the mafia, because the mafia is the one aiming the biggest gun. When given the choice, a SN will almost always choose mafia.
0
ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
Really, if anyone should be angry, it's the mafia. 2 SK and a vlad-like cultist? they didn't have much of a chance
The mafia were definitely not set up to go toe to toe with the village, but the SKs etc were designed to level the playing field. Unfortunately for them, Gaslight helped you guys for a turn or two, and Teepo was (mostly) helping the village for most of the game.
Myria was almost impossible to kill short of very strong Dragon Powers or a very concentrated effort (or... the vote, of course), so they definitely had fair strength, but it was probably wrong to have their vigs tied up in one character.
Really, if anyone should be angry, it's the mafia. 2 SK and a vlad-like cultist? they didn't have much of a chance
The mafia were definitely not set up to go toe to toe with the village, but the SKs etc were designed to level the playing field. Unfortunately for them, Gaslight helped you guys for a turn or two, and Teepo was (mostly) helping the village for most of the game.
Myria was almost impossible to kill short of very strong Dragon Powers or a very concentrated effort (or... the vote, of course), so they definitely had fair strength, but it was probably wrong to have their vigs tied up in one character.
yes yes yes
not picking on you here but this is a Big Deal when you're designing your mafia for your game
in one turn taking out myria took out 33% of the mafia's damage output
anyone thinking of running a game should always make sure the mafia can always do something
also!
in a specific critique related to this game that was not actually game-breaking and just something i did not personally like, the way the HP system and immunities worked it was very difficult to figure out what was going on with the kills
hard to tell whether the person you hit didn't die because they had more HP, or if they had an immunity to the damage you were doing, or what (and we didn't even know if there were also traditional guards, or busdrivers, or all the normal things that can confuse what happened to a kill)
if you retooled that system and put it to use in the future i think a bit more feedback on what was happening there would be useful
0
38thDoelets never be stupid againwait lets always be stupid foreverRegistered Userregular
I saw kime die purple, I just thought that meant his gene had been activated. So genes were able to be confirmed by brood by networking together? And there was a seer and a cult?
Also smoove I can't believe you didn't tie the vote to vote out obi, why wouldn't you do that as mafia. Alegis might have died but you would have killed the cult leader, you might have actually had a shot at winning.
Really, if anyone should be angry, it's the mafia. 2 SK and a vlad-like cultist? they didn't have much of a chance
The mafia were definitely not set up to go toe to toe with the village, but the SKs etc were designed to level the playing field. Unfortunately for them, Gaslight helped you guys for a turn or two, and Teepo was (mostly) helping the village for most of the game.
Myria was almost impossible to kill short of very strong Dragon Powers or a very concentrated effort (or... the vote, of course), so they definitely had fair strength, but it was probably wrong to have their vigs tied up in one character.
What were the mafia powers, anyway?
4 damage fire vig (tied to the guardians, so all 4 had to die)
2 damage non-elemental vig (tied to the cartel, so all 3 had to die)
2 damage holy or dark vig (tied to myria)
-this eventually became 2x2 dark and holy vigs, but she died the turn she used it, so only happened once
guardians have 4HP, and single element resist
cartel have resist of their choice each turn
myria had holy/dark resist, and 6 hp, and regens 2 hp/turn
You could have vigged a gene tonight too instead of a villager and thinned the crowd.
0
ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
And for what its worth, Akimbo, I was loving your story write-ups. They were the first ones I was actually reading every day instead of just scrolling to the bottom to look at results.
And Smoove, I thought you were going to screw us for sure. The only smart play from my point of view was for mafia and village to team up at the end there and vote me out. And vig someone else in the cult. Then mafia probably could have won the game or at least decided who won.
Nah, once Nirya hit up Alegis on the vote it was done. I was 95% going to vote with you all anyway (or at least not vote against you). From what I worked out, even if you guys hit your VC and left the game, I was still going to be left staring at 2 villagers that knew I was mafia, armed only with a 2pt vig.
If I sided with the village against you, it maybe drags the game out another day, but I am ultimately in the same position. Except now there are 2 factions against me and everyone knows I'm mafia.
Really, if anyone should be angry, it's the mafia. 2 SK and a vlad-like cultist? they didn't have much of a chance
The mafia were definitely not set up to go toe to toe with the village, but the SKs etc were designed to level the playing field. Unfortunately for them, Gaslight helped you guys for a turn or two, and Teepo was (mostly) helping the village for most of the game.
Myria was almost impossible to kill short of very strong Dragon Powers or a very concentrated effort (or... the vote, of course), so they definitely had fair strength, but it was probably wrong to have their vigs tied up in one character.
yes yes yes
not picking on you here but this is a Big Deal when you're designing your mafia for your game
in one turn taking out myria took out 33% of the mafia's damage output
anyone thinking of running a game should always make sure the mafia can always do something
Yeah. I thought the cadre of defensive powers I gave her would've made up for it, but obviously when the vote is all powerful, it's weird. Was definitely a mistake though.
also!
in a specific critique related to this game that was not actually game-breaking and just something i did not personally like, the way the HP system and immunities worked it was very difficult to figure out what was going on with the kills
hard to tell whether the person you hit didn't die because they had more HP, or if they had an immunity to the damage you were doing, or what (and we didn't even know if there were also traditional guards, or busdrivers, or all the normal things that can confuse what happened to a kill)
if you retooled that system and put it to use in the future i think a bit more feedback on what was happening there would be useful
It was mostly deliberate to not give info. It meant people had to share information to find stuff out, which was kind of my goal.
In the last main I ran (not the euro mini) I had people who could take multiple hits, but any attacks on them acted like seers (their role was revealed in narration) and I didn't want to do that again, so I swung it the other way. I can MAYBE see telling people if their attack was absorbed, but I don't think I would want to go much farther than that.
So yeah, I was the seer, and with the host confirming that brood were village aligned, and being unable to seer the teepo faction (they resulted as if they were neutralish), I don't know what I was supposed to do. I knew obi lied to me about his hp, but the only thing I could think was that he needed to maybe kill ryu or something not completely cultish.
My other option was to out myyself as the seer to everyone and possibly kill a village special in the same swoop.
Also smoove I can't believe you didn't tie the vote to vote out obi, why wouldn't you do that as mafia. Alegis might have died but you would have killed the cult leader, you might have actually had a shot at winning.
Also smoove I can't believe you didn't tie the vote to vote out obi, why wouldn't you do that as mafia. Alegis might have died but you would have killed the cult leader, you might have actually had a shot at winning.
This + your other post about vigging genes is what I "thought" would/might happen, thus the extra day. But Obi's group did a decent job in convincing the mafia that they could leave the game victorious and then the mafia win afterward, so I think thats why they did what they did.
0
ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
And Smoove, I thought you were going to screw us for sure. The only smart play from my point of view was for mafia and village to team up at the end there and vote me out. And vig someone else in the cult. Then mafia probably could have won the game or at least decided who won.
Nah, once Nirya hit up Alegis on the vote it was done. I was 95% going to vote with you all anyway (or at least not vote against you). From what I worked out, even if you guys hit your VC and left the game, I was still going to be left staring at 2 villagers that knew I was mafia, armed only with a 2pt vig.
If I sided with the village against you, it maybe drags the game out another day, but I am ultimately in the same position. Except now there are 2 factions against me and everyone knows I'm mafia.
Also, how far was my "guard" bit taking me? Did anyone buy it?
Also, it is the exact opposite with survivor neutrals. They tend to side with the mafia, because the mafia is the one aiming the biggest gun. When given the choice, a SN will almost always choose mafia.
That is my mistake then.
I guess my assumption was just that they don't want to draw the ire of the village, and don't know who the mafia are, so they act like uninformed villagers. I haven't really played one, so I don't have the true mindset of it, just the theoretical one. But additionally, the info being spread was that only good dragons could claim, so it was always a one way trip from Survive->Kill Myria, so people (in this game) still wanted to kill mafia, because their likely VC change would be to village aligned, since people didn't know about the EVIL DRAGON.
Figgy, you were kind of right about me; I think killing me was a waste. I was not a very useful gene.
This game had interesting mechanics but I definitely think having incorrect host information about the brood was a mistake. I liked the idea that the neutral genes had to make an effort to get converted. Dying blue meant failing your win condition but dying green/purple meant you could still win in your team won. Before I was changed I was hoping to be in cahoots with the mafia purely to stay alive, since I didn't think the brood would convert me when my identity was compromised.
Posts
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HoTS: Schmutz#1686
Mafia Boards
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HoTS: Schmutz#1686
Thanks for running this Akimbo! I had a blast.
I finally got to feel like I was useful to a team!
At the start, yes, in a mechanical sense. I think it's fair to assume that survivor neutrals typically align with the village in trying to kill mafia, so I sort of counted them as village in the original tally (making it more like 70%). If that's a point of contention, fair enough, but the core mechanic doesn't really work any other way, so without drastically changing the game, not a lot of other options.
Tee hee hee
By the way, Obi etc. For days, I had to listen to you guys talking about how Smoove got "caught in a lie about talking to me when he actually never did talk to me". He did talk to me, and it's on our proboard. Did you guys never use the Search function hahaha? I mean, it worked out 'cause he was totally evil anyways, but still, it's the principle of the thing.
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile
I got caught on so many lies, I thought for sure you and langly were on to me. I guess the "Brood are allies" part clouded it.
Oh, and when your goddess tells you not to trust kime, you are not to trust kime. I couldn't believe none of you picked up on
1) He repeated "brood are host confirmed village, and i am brood" a dozen times and then he
2) died as a gene, not a brood. Then he
3) turned up purple as well.
Rolling in my grave that my poor children had to suffer.
_____________________________________________
HoTS: Schmutz#1686
I will admit to being kind of upset at that point, so my judgement may have been questionable when I thought you already had a mark. It's very possible you didn't, and I apologize for that. I just know you hadn't been posting much, and that missing a day when there are like, 10 players left is kind of important.
I searched it so many times to be sure. Didn't find anything about you talking to Smoove and him being a guard.
Glad it worked out, though.
Not angry, I had accepted that we HAD to trust Obi/Tayrun once it came to light that there were 2 "village" factions. If they screwed us, they screwed us. Not much choice. Turns out they screwed us :P
also @DumpShock still hearts between us forever, right?
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HoTS: Schmutz#1686
From the Desk of Darth Vertroue Diplomat to the USA.
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HoTS: Schmutz#1686
Well it's, uh... there. Search for "Smoove"? Make sure you have enough results showing and whatnot, haha.
And yeah, poor mafia
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile
The mafia were definitely not set up to go toe to toe with the village, but the SKs etc were designed to level the playing field. Unfortunately for them, Gaslight helped you guys for a turn or two, and Teepo was (mostly) helping the village for most of the game.
Myria was almost impossible to kill short of very strong Dragon Powers or a very concentrated effort (or... the vote, of course), so they definitely had fair strength, but it was probably wrong to have their vigs tied up in one character.
Yeah, I scrambled hard on that one and made up some horrible lie about akimbo messing up my PM.
I learned I am horrible at keeping lies straight.
And Smoove, I thought you were going to screw us for sure. The only smart play from my point of view was for mafia and village to team up at the end there and vote me out. And vig someone else in the cult. Then mafia probably could have won the game or at least decided who won.
Hey kime, I was doing my best to keep everything else straight! Mess ups like that were bound to happen.
For me at least...
We knew you were mafia. I never believed you and only matev for a day. That was only because we knew all the roles already, we just didn't know about the brood not actually being trustworthy.
Also, it is the exact opposite with survivor neutrals. They tend to side with the mafia, because the mafia is the one aiming the biggest gun. When given the choice, a SN will almost always choose mafia.
What were the mafia powers, anyway?
yes yes yes
not picking on you here but this is a Big Deal when you're designing your mafia for your game
in one turn taking out myria took out 33% of the mafia's damage output
anyone thinking of running a game should always make sure the mafia can always do something
also!
in a specific critique related to this game that was not actually game-breaking and just something i did not personally like, the way the HP system and immunities worked it was very difficult to figure out what was going on with the kills
hard to tell whether the person you hit didn't die because they had more HP, or if they had an immunity to the damage you were doing, or what (and we didn't even know if there were also traditional guards, or busdrivers, or all the normal things that can confuse what happened to a kill)
if you retooled that system and put it to use in the future i think a bit more feedback on what was happening there would be useful
4 damage fire vig (tied to the guardians, so all 4 had to die)
2 damage non-elemental vig (tied to the cartel, so all 3 had to die)
2 damage holy or dark vig (tied to myria)
-this eventually became 2x2 dark and holy vigs, but she died the turn she used it, so only happened once
guardians have 4HP, and single element resist
cartel have resist of their choice each turn
myria had holy/dark resist, and 6 hp, and regens 2 hp/turn
Democrats Abroad! || Vote From Abroad
Nah, once Nirya hit up Alegis on the vote it was done. I was 95% going to vote with you all anyway (or at least not vote against you). From what I worked out, even if you guys hit your VC and left the game, I was still going to be left staring at 2 villagers that knew I was mafia, armed only with a 2pt vig.
If I sided with the village against you, it maybe drags the game out another day, but I am ultimately in the same position. Except now there are 2 factions against me and everyone knows I'm mafia.
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HoTS: Schmutz#1686
If Figgy hadn't been seered and found out, this game would have been very different.
instead of just PMing him essentially just to say "calling it"
Then when he publicly revealed, saying "called it"
Yeah. I thought the cadre of defensive powers I gave her would've made up for it, but obviously when the vote is all powerful, it's weird. Was definitely a mistake though.
It was mostly deliberate to not give info. It meant people had to share information to find stuff out, which was kind of my goal.
In the last main I ran (not the euro mini) I had people who could take multiple hits, but any attacks on them acted like seers (their role was revealed in narration) and I didn't want to do that again, so I swung it the other way. I can MAYBE see telling people if their attack was absorbed, but I don't think I would want to go much farther than that.
My other option was to out myyself as the seer to everyone and possibly kill a village special in the same swoop.
So
I couldn't tie the vote once Nirya voted Alegis.
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HoTS: Schmutz#1686
This + your other post about vigging genes is what I "thought" would/might happen, thus the extra day. But Obi's group did a decent job in convincing the mafia that they could leave the game victorious and then the mafia win afterward, so I think thats why they did what they did.
Nirya was already converted
That is my mistake then.
I guess my assumption was just that they don't want to draw the ire of the village, and don't know who the mafia are, so they act like uninformed villagers. I haven't really played one, so I don't have the true mindset of it, just the theoretical one. But additionally, the info being spread was that only good dragons could claim, so it was always a one way trip from Survive->Kill Myria, so people (in this game) still wanted to kill mafia, because their likely VC change would be to village aligned, since people didn't know about the EVIL DRAGON.
This game had interesting mechanics but I definitely think having incorrect host information about the brood was a mistake. I liked the idea that the neutral genes had to make an effort to get converted. Dying blue meant failing your win condition but dying green/purple meant you could still win in your team won. Before I was changed I was hoping to be in cahoots with the mafia purely to stay alive, since I didn't think the brood would convert me when my identity was compromised.