I new comic idea popped into my head this morning and the ideas have just been flowing all day. I haven't gotten this much conceptual work done in months. I was even able to roll up a very old idea that I never got the chance to use into things. Unfortunately I'm drawing a total blank on a handful of fundamental things, but I'm really hoping that I can sleep on it and get something concrete together to post soon.
I forgot just how much I enjoyed the whole script format. Its been entirely too long. The stuff in this thread has been a huge help in getting myself into the panel mindset. I have a rough time visualizing that sort of thing.
Hopefully I'm not coming across as too pushy, Munch, just want to help out. I really do like what you're doing and it seems like you're consistently getting better, too.
Nah man, I wouldn't ask if I didn't want to know. After working on something for long enough, I stop being able to see it objectively, and stop noticing when something looks off. So I always appreciate the comments and criticism.
Munch, those doodles you did for the sake of the tutorial have a great variation in line quality! They give some dimension to the drawing that some of your pages just don't have. I am talking here from someone who hasn't been here in a long time, and I remember your work from when I was around briefly in the artist corner many years ago. But I mean it with the best intentions to see you develop further! Great stuff. Koalas are evil bastards. Have you heard them scream?
Hey Lewis, how you been? Still drawing?
On the inking: You think? I know I'm a bit too "precious" about my lines, but I guess I prefer to be a little more subtle with the tapering and such. Like the lines of the koala's arm in panel three, here. Or Kookaburra's arm extending into the foreground, in the fifth panel. I'll admit though, I do try to loosen up occasionally, usually with mixed results.
It didn't help that this paper I'm using, holds ink a bit weirdly. The usual Strathmore bristol I ink on absorbs ink really well, so there's no bleed. This comic-lined bristol is a bit thinner, so if I put down too much ink at once, the lines wind up looking a bit fuzzy. I didn't realize this until I'd drawn 10 pages worth of comics on it. D'oh.
I was actually reading Daytripper a while back, and really paying attention to Fabio Moon's inks. The way he'll just throw a big, thick line on a character, was really interesting to me. This Thing drawing he did, shows what I'm talking about.
And, here's what I did tonight:
The copy-paste panels from this page and the last, really hint at how much I just wanted to wrap this thing up.
munch do you need me to motivate you to art better
i can do this
i can do this but good
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Linespider5ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGERRegistered Userregular
In my experience, it rarely pays off trying to headbutt your way through a thing.
Just had a realization that only about the last 20% of my process involves the stuff I actually consider 'the good stuff.' Like, why do I have to outline everything before I do the shading, if I care about the shading more? Why not just do the shading first if I like it so much? I can put in outlines later if I still want them.
Lo and behold, I'm changing how I do everything...again...and it's better, easier, faster, than if I just stuck to my guns out of a sense of 'discipline' when what was holding me back was a sense that there had to be a better way do get what I want done.
On the inking: You think? I know I'm a bit too "precious" about my lines, but I guess I prefer to be a little more subtle with the tapering and such. Like the lines of the koala's arm in panel three, here. Or Kookaburra's arm extending into the foreground, in the fifth panel. I'll admit though, I do try to loosen up occasionally, usually with mixed results.
It didn't help that this paper I'm using, holds ink a bit weirdly. The usual Strathmore bristol I ink on absorbs ink really well, so there's no bleed. This comic-lined bristol is a bit thinner, so if I put down too much ink at once, the lines wind up looking a bit fuzzy. I didn't realize this until I'd drawn 10 pages worth of comics on it. D'oh.
I was actually reading Daytripper a while back, and really paying attention to Fabio Moon's inks. The way he'll just throw a big, thick line on a character, was really interesting to me. This Thing drawing he did, shows what I'm talking about.
Whoa man that is a thick line! Maybe not that thick haha! The work I was doing at the end of the last year was very thick lined and it looks great on a screen but it looks terrible in print. The key is variation. I've worked it out of my system now. That Thing picture does have great variation which opposes that great big back line brilliantly.
But it's like what Linespider says, it's all about testing out things and making new paths and abandoning the old ones. I'm also finding there is endless improvement to be found!
Linespider5ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGERRegistered Userregular
It's just weird. I'm doing this comic that's more or less turning into a running diary of my art style week-to-week, so it's prettymuch turning into this long-form evolution that's doing more for my development as an artist than a lot of stuff I've tried in the past. Somehow, having a storyline and characters to confront accelerates the skills I've been trying to hone by not leaving me room to meander. I've got all these restrictions placed around me by the plotline and that is moving everything forward.
I would basically recommend any aspiring artist to dedicate at least one year of their life to making a comic. It's really good, really intensive process that will make you a better artist, no matter what kind of artist you intend to be.
The best way to improve is certainly to just keep creating. There is only so much theory and what have you before you need to jump into a project and start creating! Me and a friend are starting a webcomic soon, I've been reading up on HTML code and CSS so I can get a good website up and not just a blog.
This is something I drew recently, thinking about an old character and creating a new story line.
edit: sometimes I find it easier to start drawing the comic and create the text to it later. I remember hearing something that Marvel used to work this way...
GustavFriend of GoatsSomewhere in the OzarksRegistered Userregular
Dude yeah. A year and a certain page count, and you have some of the best drawing exercises imaginable. Bonus points for varying locales and actions in the scenes. I keep running across stuff I'd never drawn before, so it kind of forces you to learn. Attach a deadline to it, and you really have to get working.
@Lewis Rice I definitely dig the color palette, and where that's heading. And I used to do pretty much the same thing. Basically just do layouts with a general idea of what the needed to be covered dialogue wise, and then just draw it out and write the dialogue later.
Though, I kinda discovered I'm inclined to do super decompressed stuff if I did that. When I started actually scripting it out, I found the pages had more info included on them, forcing me to be a bit more clever about how I committed it to page.
And I just did like a script for what was a ten page story for my webcomic, but decided to cut it down and see if I could draw it as six pages and still retain all of the info in the ten page version. Ended up being a bit of a difficult exercise, but I think it ended up worth it.
Lettering this thing has proven trickier than I first thought, especially all my back-and-forth patter on the second page. But, I think it's pretty readable. I may take another pass at the first page though, especially the big KOOKABURRA balloon at the end.
Is it the tiny tail on the, "Just Kookaburra," balloon? Or are you going from left to right too quickly, jumping to what's supposed to be the last word balloon, too early?
I think that middle panel of page two is a little awkward because your eye loops right to left then right again. I mean, it reads fine and I didn't have trouble with it, but it was a little odd.
Overall, I think it's good and readable. You're leaving enough space between the edges and the actual letters so it doesn't feel cramped or anything.
I would suggest watching where your tails point. A lot of them are pointing to the tops of heads or eyes, and they really should aim for the mouth of the speaking character, even if they're a ways off.
it's the tiny and the placement. one balloon is far from kook, the other is close.
and the pole/streetlight, when going through quickly, almost looks like a gutter, so it looks like the little "just kookaburra" balloon is in a panel all to itself and is being said by the old guy, if you aren't looking for the tiny tail
Gonna take a crack at applying my class lessons here:
The major issue I see in these pages is a lack of visual flow. Page one flows reasonably well - I have shapes to follow almost through the whole page (panel 2 being an exception, but I'm not sure that's not somewhat intentional). Page 2 falls apart in the third row of panels. From that point on most of the panels have a problem getting in or out.
The other thing I notice here is anatomy - several of your characters appear to have unnaturally square torso/hip relationships. In particular Kookaburra's use of hand-on-hip pose emphasizes the uncanny look of that anatomical oddity.
The...mayor? His body proportions shift between panels in a really obvious way. P2 panels 1 and 2 show off what I'm talking about.
Despite those issues it's pretty readable. His "navigation" sequence is a little disconnected, but I guess that's really the point. I love the density of the foliage when he gets into the grove. And the way you've accomodated speech is very effective as well.
I dunno how serious this work is, but it seems like you're hitting it pretty hard so I'll also say there's something about the writing that just falls short for me. If I go back to the class I'm taking I'd say it lacks specificity - you start in a very generic setting, which is a hard sell for a reader. If it's going to be a town council (?), there's something to be said for putting a bunch of 90 year old raisins or something equally extreme in the council, really emphasizing their powerlessness vs Kookaburra's capability.
If I trust my own writing instincts, I would say that I am simply not invested in this character or the quest he's on. Maybe there's context that sets that up, but in the material you have here it's a hard sell.
Are you Australian, Munch? There is some really incredible foilage to the Australian bush land and desert that is really independent and iconic from any other place. In my uni course I am lucky enough to be getting taught by a published comics illustrator and writer. Probably the biggest piece of information that he continually lays on us is to never shy away or be afraid to use references in your work. That it is not demeaning to the creation of the picture and that in the end, if it makes it more enthralling and communicative, the better.
I would suggest finding some images of the australian outback to cutup and montage. Even sketching and studying it. ink over the top of it. It can produce some great stuff. Even screenshotting films gives some great imagery to work from. The first panel of the two I posted above is from the view outside a window in a shot from the film Barfly! I've made a few changes in regards to the building and I've slightly changed the layout, but the two panels spawned from the view that I saw in Barfly.
it's the tiny and the placement. one balloon is far from kook, the other is close.
and the pole/streetlight, when going through quickly, almost looks like a gutter, so it looks like the little "just kookaburra" balloon is in a panel all to itself and is being said by the old guy, if you aren't looking for the tiny tail
Yeah, I'll fix that tail. I thought it looked weird to begin with, but I have a strange aversion to long word balloon tails. I can't do much about the placement, since that's really the only place I can fit Dominic's (the old guy) dialogue, and I want that moment where Kook's word balloon interrupts Dom's, by overlapping.
I would suggest watching where your tails point. A lot of them are pointing to the tops of heads or eyes, and they really should aim for the mouth of the speaking character, even if they're a ways off.
This is something I try to do, space permitting, but it's not something I put a whole lot of stock into. I feel like, as long as it's pointing at the character's head, readers will get the gist.
The...mayor? His body proportions shift between panels in a really obvious way. P2 panels 1 and 2 show off what I'm talking about.
dunno how serious this work is, but it seems like you're hitting it pretty hard so I'll also say there's something about the writing that just falls short for me. If I go back to the class I'm taking I'd say it lacks specificity - you start in a very generic setting, which is a hard sell for a reader. If it's going to be a town council (?), there's something to be said for putting a bunch of 90 year old raisins or something equally extreme in the council, really emphasizing their powerlessness vs Kookaburra's capability.
If I trust my own writing instincts, I would say that I am simply not invested in this character or the quest he's on. Maybe there's context that sets that up, but in the material you have here it's a hard sell.
With regards to Dominic's appearance in page two, panel one; honestly, it's just a bad drawing. This goes for a lot of the art in this comic. I drew a lot of it almost a year ago, and the rest months apart, ping-ponging back and forth between pages. Things shifted, here and there, both in how I wanted to draw the characters, and in how well I could draw. I re-drew what I reasonably could, to clean it up a bit, but I've made peace with the fact that some of it's just going to look weird.
On the writing; I consciously limited myself to ten pages, in an attempt to show that I could do a compelling story, with a beginning, middle, and end. So, some stuff won't be as fleshed out as it could be. If I gave myself ten more pages, I'd be able to devote more than three to the town, and a lot of the pages wouldn't be so cramped with panels. Dominic's grand-daughter would definitely have more to say and do.
But, I did what I could to establish stakes, right out of the gate. Dominic hints that this is a severe drought, even given his years of experience with such things. And there was some additional dialogue there, that I cut for space and brevity. The viewer is shown how it's affecting the town, and I tried to show that, for all Dominic's bluster at the start, he reveals with his last line, that this is worrying him. Away from his people, where he needs to look in control, when it's just him and Kook, we're looking down on him, as he plaintively asks this vagabond outsider to help him save his town.
If it didn't connect with you, that's fine. Ideally I'd be able to spend another ten pages making you care about the town and its inhabitants, first. But, I wanted to just jump right into the action, and introduce the dynamic between Dominic and Kook, since it's kind of what ties the story together.
On the town council; I actually wanted them to be a diverse group. Usually, you'd just see a bunch of fallow-faced old men. Here, you've got an old guy, a younger woman, and some big, strapping ox of a guy, who's clenching his hand in a fist.
Are you Australian, Munch? There is some really incredible foilage to the Australian bush land and desert that is really independent and iconic from any other place. In my uni course I am lucky enough to be getting taught by a published comics illustrator and writer. Probably the biggest piece of information that he continually lays on us is to never shy away or be afraid to use references in your work. That it is not demeaning to the creation of the picture and that in the end, if it makes it more enthralling and communicative, the better.
I would suggest finding some images of the australian outback to cutup and montage. Even sketching and studying it. ink over the top of it. It can produce some great stuff. Even screenshotting films gives some great imagery to work from.
I am not, but I did do research. I watched the film Walkabout, in order to get an idea of what the Australian wilderness looks like, and a couple other Australian films, to get an ear for the accent. The aesthetic of the fictional Shadow's Bluff, is based on the actual small town of Lajamanu, which is dominated by dirt roads and squat little buildings. Dominic's car is the Australian-made Holden 48-215. I even looked up local political titles, to figure out what exactly Dominic's position would be, within the community. Other stuff, I just kind of played by ear. Like, before I'd draw something, I'd ask, "Wait, do they have that in Australia?"
For instance, on page four, panel four, Kook was originally going to be staring up at vultures. Vultures aren't native to Australia, and so were replaced by Australian ravens, another carrion bird. And some stuff was deliberately put in, because it was anachronous. Like that tall cactus, in the same panel. Cacti aren't native to Australia, though you will find some prickly pear cacti there. From what I can tell, you won't really find those tall, saguaro cacti. But, it's a hint to Kookaburra, that something isn't right with the local foliage, as he nears this unnatural oasis. It's not meant to be terribly overt. If you know nothing about Australian foliage, it's just a dude eyeballing some pesky birds. If you do, you may pick up on the actual meaning.
Or, you may think I'm just dumb, and screwed up, which is typically the more likely answer.
I went back and forth on how I wanted to do Koobor, the koala's, speech bubbles. Or whether I wanted him to talk at all. Would the reincarnated soul of an ancient Aboriginal speak English? I mean, surely he would have picked it up over the years.
I thought about doing black text bubbles, but I do want to print this out at some point, and I'm afraid white-on-black text may not come out clearly. Ditto for unusual fonts. So, I'm just using unusually-shaped balloons for him. It's subtle, but there.
Man, the sound effects have been the hardest part of lettering, for me. I feel weird layering them over the art, since it looks pretty weird in black and white. And it's hard to fit them in the panels, otherwise, since I squeezed so much onto the page.
I love seeing Munch's stuff, but...so, ah. Question.
Can anyone just post a sample of what it is they do in here? Is this like an open mic night thread of homemade stuff?
Yeah, I think everyone else just tends to put their stuff on their websites, or whatever. I just flood this space with my junk, because it's an easy way to post and get feedback on what I'm doing.
Speaking of which, here's the comic, 99% completed:
I've got mixed feelings on it. I think the first half flows pretty well, and in the second half, everything gets very abrupt and hurried. I resisted the urge to make Koobor explain himself too much, because I wanted him to come off a bit crazed and nonsensical, his actions only rationalized when we hear Dominic's story. But, I don't think it plays the way I wanted it to.
And the denouement lacks punch, I think. I don't think that Kookaburra's act of letting this old guy keep his faux Batmobile, has the impact I'd have liked it to have.
Again, a lot of this is down to the small page count, I think. I wanted to cover a lot of ground, in a short amount of time, and I think I condensed things too much. Plus, I kept changing the script over time, too. Which I think negatively affected the flow of the story, towards the end.
But, it's a comic, and I did it, and it's done, and now I can do something else. It's the first one I've carried to an actual form of completion, ever. So, while I don't want to say I'm okay with it being kind of bad, I am.
I plan to make one last pass at it tomorrow, once I can look at it with fresh eyes, so if anyone has any suggestions or comments, I'd be interested to hear them. I'm already planning to re-write page ten, panel two, and to change the "KOOKABURRA" on page one, panel six.
Linespider5ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGERRegistered Userregular
Well, Munch. It's pretty nice.
The challenge and fun in making a comic is something I've been grappling with for some time. I've got a 48 page incomplete graphic novel from 2006 that will remain that way. And now I'm doing something else longform, but is thankfully being a much easier thing to do, thanks to my love of the topic, having a digital tablet now, and a greater sense of focus on what I want.
But I still find myself toying with things that lead me in unexpected directions.
In terms of suggestions, just maybe two things, really.
If anything, maybe just have a couple of bleed pages of establishing shots. One to precede the first page with the town meeting, showing maybe a broad shot of the town, and one to precede Kookaburra entering the creepy, shrouded oasis grove. Big, single shot pieces to frame the two major scenes and give the reader a sense of the scope and scenery they can fill their head with as they watch the characters interact in the later pages.
munch I am not saying the art in the sound effect is bad either
just the word itself
the word bam
it just doesn't look right as a sound effect
like KRAAACK would work
but bam. bam is weak.
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Linespider5ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGERRegistered Userregular
Fuck it, I'm in.
This is one of my favorite pages of my ongoing...thing. It's not nearly my best art-but being able to make a pretty decent continuous flow through a stairwell with a conversation that demonstrates some of the real meat of my storyline is a weird thrill I'm glad I pulled off as well as I did.
I really want to figure out the best way to mix sequential art with big, established, consistent scene design. Not that that's the answer for every moment in a story, but it's something I just can't stop fixating on.
@Linespider5: Move the balloon for "This would seem a great deal...". It visually confuses your entire scene structure. I'm not sure where you can move it, but there is a strong pull to go left-to-right there that would not exist without that balloon. Otherwise, cleverly done.
Linespider5ALL HAIL KING KILLMONGERRegistered Userregular
Yeah, that was the tricky one. I couldn't seem to give it the tail it needs to reach Da Vinci, plus there's some weird figure/ground stuff going on in that entrance between the Penguin, the column, and the concealed assailant.
Although, maybe I can emphasize the initial downward path a little bit more. The second and third balloons could be raised up a bit to better link the corner shot with the overhead path...
Might nudge the "Deal" balloon just a bit to the right anyway. Maybe there's some visual trick I can pull in that upper lefthand corner with the gutter to better emphasize the separation and direction of things.
The eye's always going to read left-to-right, so I did suffer a little confusion upon the first read of that page.
Something you might try, is widening the gutter on the right of, and thinning the one below, the inset panel. That gives readers a cue to cross the thinner gutter, to get to the next panel. David Brothers talks about it here.
I'd also fiddle with the brightness and contrast a bit. Right now, everything's basically the same shade of grey. If things got darker as they went downstairs, that'd cause the reader's eye to start at the upper left, and then go down, as that part of the page is the same color as the rest of the page. Here's a quick edit, to show you what I mean.
The word balloon issue is a mix of things causing me to read it wrong in that first panel area.
Having the first speaker on the right means that we have to go BACK to read the response, and it's far below, so you're eye doesn't look for it. Instead, you go right again and then it's all gone.
You might could try moving that conflicting balloon in the other panel down and over, as it being equal height to the first balloon puts it on equal footing, in a sense.
But even the middle of the page, I want to read it right to left. The word balloons on the page aren't really leading your reading experience so much as outlining where you want the reader to follow. So the visual path is there, and it's a cool concept, but the actual word balloons are sending you in a completely different direction on each level. For a complicated page like that, you really have to have the word balloons do the leading. The eye is going to follow them first, most of the time.
The eye's always going to read left-to-right, so I did suffer a little confusion upon the first read of that page.
Something you might try, is widening the gutter on the right of, and thinning the one below, the inset panel. That gives readers a cue to cross the thinner gutter, to get to the next panel. David Brothers talks about it here.
I'd also fiddle with the brightness and contrast a bit. Right now, everything's basically the same shade of grey. If things got darker as they went downstairs, that'd cause the reader's eye to start at the upper left, and then go down, as that part of the page is the same color as the rest of the page. Here's a quick edit, to show you what I mean.
Gutter tweaking. Interesting. And here was little ol me thinking gutters of varying width might look bad, but...that actually makes a lot of sense. I don't think I ever would've experimented with that on my own.
The contrast is also a good idea, in terms of being able to redefine and emphasize an area without discarding/modifying/redrawing what's already there.
If it makes you feel any better, Munch, Old Man Hero was apparently someone else's comic book two years ago. But fuck that guy. Not throwing out that volume of work. Not gonna happen.
After seeing a poster of some GI Joe-COBRA battle with Snake Eyes and Storm Shadow sword-fighting in the middle of a big battle, I sort of want to write a thing that skewers the ridiculousness of that concept.
If it makes you feel any better, Munch, Old Man Hero was apparently someone else's comic book two years ago. But fuck that guy. Not throwing out that volume of work. Not gonna happen.
So many good titles are already taken. I was going to call my short story collection "Other World" since most of the stories have to do with being transported to parallel universes or other planets, but it's taken. So I was thinking of just making it a twilight zone-esque collection and call it Tales by Twilight.
After seeing a poster of some GI Joe-COBRA battle with Snake Eyes and Storm Shadow sword-fighting in the middle of a big battle, I sort of want to write a thing that skewers the ridiculousness of that concept.
Ha yeah I have an idea for a mecha comic that deals with how extremely impractical giant robots would be.
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I forgot just how much I enjoyed the whole script format. Its been entirely too long. The stuff in this thread has been a huge help in getting myself into the panel mindset. I have a rough time visualizing that sort of thing.
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Nah man, I wouldn't ask if I didn't want to know. After working on something for long enough, I stop being able to see it objectively, and stop noticing when something looks off. So I always appreciate the comments and criticism.
Interesting tutorial, too. Thanks for posting it.
Hey Lewis, how you been? Still drawing?
On the inking: You think? I know I'm a bit too "precious" about my lines, but I guess I prefer to be a little more subtle with the tapering and such. Like the lines of the koala's arm in panel three, here. Or Kookaburra's arm extending into the foreground, in the fifth panel. I'll admit though, I do try to loosen up occasionally, usually with mixed results.
It didn't help that this paper I'm using, holds ink a bit weirdly. The usual Strathmore bristol I ink on absorbs ink really well, so there's no bleed. This comic-lined bristol is a bit thinner, so if I put down too much ink at once, the lines wind up looking a bit fuzzy. I didn't realize this until I'd drawn 10 pages worth of comics on it. D'oh.
I was actually reading Daytripper a while back, and really paying attention to Fabio Moon's inks. The way he'll just throw a big, thick line on a character, was really interesting to me. This Thing drawing he did, shows what I'm talking about.
And, here's what I did tonight:
The copy-paste panels from this page and the last, really hint at how much I just wanted to wrap this thing up.
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i can do this
i can do this but good
Just had a realization that only about the last 20% of my process involves the stuff I actually consider 'the good stuff.' Like, why do I have to outline everything before I do the shading, if I care about the shading more? Why not just do the shading first if I like it so much? I can put in outlines later if I still want them.
Lo and behold, I'm changing how I do everything...again...and it's better, easier, faster, than if I just stuck to my guns out of a sense of 'discipline' when what was holding me back was a sense that there had to be a better way do get what I want done.
Whoa man that is a thick line! Maybe not that thick haha! The work I was doing at the end of the last year was very thick lined and it looks great on a screen but it looks terrible in print. The key is variation. I've worked it out of my system now. That Thing picture does have great variation which opposes that great big back line brilliantly.
But it's like what Linespider says, it's all about testing out things and making new paths and abandoning the old ones. I'm also finding there is endless improvement to be found!
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I would basically recommend any aspiring artist to dedicate at least one year of their life to making a comic. It's really good, really intensive process that will make you a better artist, no matter what kind of artist you intend to be.
This is something I drew recently, thinking about an old character and creating a new story line.
edit: sometimes I find it easier to start drawing the comic and create the text to it later. I remember hearing something that Marvel used to work this way...
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@Lewis Rice I definitely dig the color palette, and where that's heading. And I used to do pretty much the same thing. Basically just do layouts with a general idea of what the needed to be covered dialogue wise, and then just draw it out and write the dialogue later.
Though, I kinda discovered I'm inclined to do super decompressed stuff if I did that. When I started actually scripting it out, I found the pages had more info included on them, forcing me to be a bit more clever about how I committed it to page.
And I just did like a script for what was a ten page story for my webcomic, but decided to cut it down and see if I could draw it as six pages and still retain all of the info in the ten page version. Ended up being a bit of a difficult exercise, but I think it ended up worth it.
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Overall, I think it's good and readable. You're leaving enough space between the edges and the actual letters so it doesn't feel cramped or anything.
I would suggest watching where your tails point. A lot of them are pointing to the tops of heads or eyes, and they really should aim for the mouth of the speaking character, even if they're a ways off.
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and the pole/streetlight, when going through quickly, almost looks like a gutter, so it looks like the little "just kookaburra" balloon is in a panel all to itself and is being said by the old guy, if you aren't looking for the tiny tail
The major issue I see in these pages is a lack of visual flow. Page one flows reasonably well - I have shapes to follow almost through the whole page (panel 2 being an exception, but I'm not sure that's not somewhat intentional). Page 2 falls apart in the third row of panels. From that point on most of the panels have a problem getting in or out.
The other thing I notice here is anatomy - several of your characters appear to have unnaturally square torso/hip relationships. In particular Kookaburra's use of hand-on-hip pose emphasizes the uncanny look of that anatomical oddity.
The...mayor? His body proportions shift between panels in a really obvious way. P2 panels 1 and 2 show off what I'm talking about.
Despite those issues it's pretty readable. His "navigation" sequence is a little disconnected, but I guess that's really the point. I love the density of the foliage when he gets into the grove. And the way you've accomodated speech is very effective as well.
I dunno how serious this work is, but it seems like you're hitting it pretty hard so I'll also say there's something about the writing that just falls short for me. If I go back to the class I'm taking I'd say it lacks specificity - you start in a very generic setting, which is a hard sell for a reader. If it's going to be a town council (?), there's something to be said for putting a bunch of 90 year old raisins or something equally extreme in the council, really emphasizing their powerlessness vs Kookaburra's capability.
If I trust my own writing instincts, I would say that I am simply not invested in this character or the quest he's on. Maybe there's context that sets that up, but in the material you have here it's a hard sell.
@oldmanhero .programming .web comic .everything
I would suggest finding some images of the australian outback to cutup and montage. Even sketching and studying it. ink over the top of it. It can produce some great stuff. Even screenshotting films gives some great imagery to work from. The first panel of the two I posted above is from the view outside a window in a shot from the film Barfly! I've made a few changes in regards to the building and I've slightly changed the layout, but the two panels spawned from the view that I saw in Barfly.
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Yeah, I'll fix that tail. I thought it looked weird to begin with, but I have a strange aversion to long word balloon tails. I can't do much about the placement, since that's really the only place I can fit Dominic's (the old guy) dialogue, and I want that moment where Kook's word balloon interrupts Dom's, by overlapping.
This is something I try to do, space permitting, but it's not something I put a whole lot of stock into. I feel like, as long as it's pointing at the character's head, readers will get the gist.
With regards to Dominic's appearance in page two, panel one; honestly, it's just a bad drawing. This goes for a lot of the art in this comic. I drew a lot of it almost a year ago, and the rest months apart, ping-ponging back and forth between pages. Things shifted, here and there, both in how I wanted to draw the characters, and in how well I could draw. I re-drew what I reasonably could, to clean it up a bit, but I've made peace with the fact that some of it's just going to look weird.
On the writing; I consciously limited myself to ten pages, in an attempt to show that I could do a compelling story, with a beginning, middle, and end. So, some stuff won't be as fleshed out as it could be. If I gave myself ten more pages, I'd be able to devote more than three to the town, and a lot of the pages wouldn't be so cramped with panels. Dominic's grand-daughter would definitely have more to say and do.
But, I did what I could to establish stakes, right out of the gate. Dominic hints that this is a severe drought, even given his years of experience with such things. And there was some additional dialogue there, that I cut for space and brevity. The viewer is shown how it's affecting the town, and I tried to show that, for all Dominic's bluster at the start, he reveals with his last line, that this is worrying him. Away from his people, where he needs to look in control, when it's just him and Kook, we're looking down on him, as he plaintively asks this vagabond outsider to help him save his town.
If it didn't connect with you, that's fine. Ideally I'd be able to spend another ten pages making you care about the town and its inhabitants, first. But, I wanted to just jump right into the action, and introduce the dynamic between Dominic and Kook, since it's kind of what ties the story together.
On the town council; I actually wanted them to be a diverse group. Usually, you'd just see a bunch of fallow-faced old men. Here, you've got an old guy, a younger woman, and some big, strapping ox of a guy, who's clenching his hand in a fist.
I am not, but I did do research. I watched the film Walkabout, in order to get an idea of what the Australian wilderness looks like, and a couple other Australian films, to get an ear for the accent. The aesthetic of the fictional Shadow's Bluff, is based on the actual small town of Lajamanu, which is dominated by dirt roads and squat little buildings. Dominic's car is the Australian-made Holden 48-215. I even looked up local political titles, to figure out what exactly Dominic's position would be, within the community. Other stuff, I just kind of played by ear. Like, before I'd draw something, I'd ask, "Wait, do they have that in Australia?"
For instance, on page four, panel four, Kook was originally going to be staring up at vultures. Vultures aren't native to Australia, and so were replaced by Australian ravens, another carrion bird. And some stuff was deliberately put in, because it was anachronous. Like that tall cactus, in the same panel. Cacti aren't native to Australia, though you will find some prickly pear cacti there. From what I can tell, you won't really find those tall, saguaro cacti. But, it's a hint to Kookaburra, that something isn't right with the local foliage, as he nears this unnatural oasis. It's not meant to be terribly overt. If you know nothing about Australian foliage, it's just a dude eyeballing some pesky birds. If you do, you may pick up on the actual meaning.
Or, you may think I'm just dumb, and screwed up, which is typically the more likely answer.
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just showed the comic to @Gatsby , a native australian, he likes it
says you should watch Cactus, one man kidnapping another and driving him into the Australian desert
I may see if I can Netflix Red Dog, but after recently re-reading the deluxe WE3, I'm not sure I can take any sad animals stories, for a while.
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so maybe give that a pass.
I went back and forth on how I wanted to do Koobor, the koala's, speech bubbles. Or whether I wanted him to talk at all. Would the reincarnated soul of an ancient Aboriginal speak English? I mean, surely he would have picked it up over the years.
I thought about doing black text bubbles, but I do want to print this out at some point, and I'm afraid white-on-black text may not come out clearly. Ditto for unusual fonts. So, I'm just using unusually-shaped balloons for him. It's subtle, but there.
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as in the word itself
it just doesn't look right
Can anyone just post a sample of what it is they do in here? Is this like an open mic night thread of homemade stuff?
Man, the sound effects have been the hardest part of lettering, for me. I feel weird layering them over the art, since it looks pretty weird in black and white. And it's hard to fit them in the panels, otherwise, since I squeezed so much onto the page.
Yeah, I think everyone else just tends to put their stuff on their websites, or whatever. I just flood this space with my junk, because it's an easy way to post and get feedback on what I'm doing.
Speaking of which, here's the comic, 99% completed:
I've got mixed feelings on it. I think the first half flows pretty well, and in the second half, everything gets very abrupt and hurried. I resisted the urge to make Koobor explain himself too much, because I wanted him to come off a bit crazed and nonsensical, his actions only rationalized when we hear Dominic's story. But, I don't think it plays the way I wanted it to.
And the denouement lacks punch, I think. I don't think that Kookaburra's act of letting this old guy keep his faux Batmobile, has the impact I'd have liked it to have.
Again, a lot of this is down to the small page count, I think. I wanted to cover a lot of ground, in a short amount of time, and I think I condensed things too much. Plus, I kept changing the script over time, too. Which I think negatively affected the flow of the story, towards the end.
But, it's a comic, and I did it, and it's done, and now I can do something else. It's the first one I've carried to an actual form of completion, ever. So, while I don't want to say I'm okay with it being kind of bad, I am.
I plan to make one last pass at it tomorrow, once I can look at it with fresh eyes, so if anyone has any suggestions or comments, I'd be interested to hear them. I'm already planning to re-write page ten, panel two, and to change the "KOOKABURRA" on page one, panel six.
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The challenge and fun in making a comic is something I've been grappling with for some time. I've got a 48 page incomplete graphic novel from 2006 that will remain that way. And now I'm doing something else longform, but is thankfully being a much easier thing to do, thanks to my love of the topic, having a digital tablet now, and a greater sense of focus on what I want.
But I still find myself toying with things that lead me in unexpected directions.
In terms of suggestions, just maybe two things, really.
If anything, maybe just have a couple of bleed pages of establishing shots. One to precede the first page with the town meeting, showing maybe a broad shot of the town, and one to precede Kookaburra entering the creepy, shrouded oasis grove. Big, single shot pieces to frame the two major scenes and give the reader a sense of the scope and scenery they can fill their head with as they watch the characters interact in the later pages.
just the word itself
the word bam
it just doesn't look right as a sound effect
like KRAAACK would work
but bam. bam is weak.
This is one of my favorite pages of my ongoing...thing. It's not nearly my best art-but being able to make a pretty decent continuous flow through a stairwell with a conversation that demonstrates some of the real meat of my storyline is a weird thrill I'm glad I pulled off as well as I did.
I really want to figure out the best way to mix sequential art with big, established, consistent scene design. Not that that's the answer for every moment in a story, but it's something I just can't stop fixating on.
@oldmanhero .programming .web comic .everything
Although, maybe I can emphasize the initial downward path a little bit more. The second and third balloons could be raised up a bit to better link the corner shot with the overhead path...
Might nudge the "Deal" balloon just a bit to the right anyway. Maybe there's some visual trick I can pull in that upper lefthand corner with the gutter to better emphasize the separation and direction of things.
Something you might try, is widening the gutter on the right of, and thinning the one below, the inset panel. That gives readers a cue to cross the thinner gutter, to get to the next panel. David Brothers talks about it here.
I'd also fiddle with the brightness and contrast a bit. Right now, everything's basically the same shade of grey. If things got darker as they went downstairs, that'd cause the reader's eye to start at the upper left, and then go down, as that part of the page is the same color as the rest of the page. Here's a quick edit, to show you what I mean.
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Having the first speaker on the right means that we have to go BACK to read the response, and it's far below, so you're eye doesn't look for it. Instead, you go right again and then it's all gone.
You might could try moving that conflicting balloon in the other panel down and over, as it being equal height to the first balloon puts it on equal footing, in a sense.
But even the middle of the page, I want to read it right to left. The word balloons on the page aren't really leading your reading experience so much as outlining where you want the reader to follow. So the visual path is there, and it's a cool concept, but the actual word balloons are sending you in a completely different direction on each level. For a complicated page like that, you really have to have the word balloons do the leading. The eye is going to follow them first, most of the time.
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Gutter tweaking. Interesting. And here was little ol me thinking gutters of varying width might look bad, but...that actually makes a lot of sense. I don't think I ever would've experimented with that on my own.
The contrast is also a good idea, in terms of being able to redefine and emphasize an area without discarding/modifying/redrawing what's already there.
I really appreciate this.
where my chupacomics at
It's not exactly the same, but it's close enough that I was like, "Oh, goddammit."
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@oldmanhero .programming .web comic .everything
To quote Josh Homme of Queens of the Stone Age,
"It doesn't matter it's been said, it's never been said by me."
Make it your own, that's what counts.
So many good titles are already taken. I was going to call my short story collection "Other World" since most of the stories have to do with being transported to parallel universes or other planets, but it's taken. So I was thinking of just making it a twilight zone-esque collection and call it Tales by Twilight.
Ha yeah I have an idea for a mecha comic that deals with how extremely impractical giant robots would be.