Of course people test and do mathcrafting. And the folks who win tournaments do a lot more of it, because both are very effective methods. They make you win more games. But as far as I'm concerned, the only true way to see what really works in such complex systems is the meta, and 40k's meta is torturously slow. In games with more fluid metas, winners and losers can be easily determined at any given moment essentially.
I don't see the difference between the two statements, to be honest. They both work out to "this guy, who knows way more about 40k than me, based on the only metric we really have to determine such, says x." Would I trust a guy who'd tested his stuff more? Yes, of course. But still, I'd rather "expert " advice, where available.
I think the next time I play warhammer, I'm going to bring five honor guard with relic blades, and maybe one without. They are so badass.
Anon, I was really wondering where you were going with the kroot. Dark Eldar sounds like an excellent choice.
We had a dude do a full relic blade honor guard in an apoc game. Everyone ignored them for "better units" and at the end of the game we realized they had carved through half of our line because we were wore out from fighting "better units".
Morale of the story - Apoc makes everything better.
Everyday I wake up is the worst day of my life.
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-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
Heh, someone mentioned on Warseer that as well as seeing some of the new Necrons like the Canoptek Wraith on the shelves at a GW distribution center, they also saw what looked like an Ork Fighta Bomba box.
valhalla13013 Dark Shield Perceives the GodsRegistered Userregular
I really wish the flyers were confined to Epic. And I wish that characters were "with opponent's permission." Because we'd see them disappear again, and people would be forced to build their own lists.
I've heard so many good things about epic but know nothing about it.
WHY SO GOOD? QUANTIFY!
Everyday I wake up is the worst day of my life.
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valhalla13013 Dark Shield Perceives the GodsRegistered Userregular
Epic allows you to field actual armies, with combined arms, flyers, artillery, elites, everything. It was awesome the few times I played it. I've always thought 40k should be more a skirmish game.
You can download the rules and errything for free from GW's website, but let's just say that it captures the differences of the 40k armies much better than 40k can ever do. If you want to play a game where Space Marines are as individually bad-ass as they are in the fluff, Epic is that game. It also forgoes the 'IgoUgo' system in favor of alternating activations, and the ability to retain the initiative for your activations via initiative tests for your formations, and an awesome suppression system to show the effects of being fired upon by your units without actually taking casualties.
Plus, you get to use the full 40k arsenal: aerospace units, landers, orbital bombardments, Titans, etc, etc.
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valhalla13013 Dark Shield Perceives the GodsRegistered Userregular
I have to admit. It was the Titans that did it for me.
Seriously, you can have your entire space marine army be nothing but teleporting terminators and a few thunderhawks that drop off land raiders and marines after clearing the landing zone and then go into a holding pattern around the battlefield to take out targets of opportunity while your marines spread out to mercilessly kill shit.
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valhalla13013 Dark Shield Perceives the GodsRegistered Userregular
Why would you need to do conversions? Just buy more. You will likely need them all anyway.
Seriously, you can have your entire space marine army be nothing but teleporting terminators and a few thunderhawks that drop off land raiders and marines after clearing the landing zone and then go into a holding pattern around the battlefield to take out targets of opportunity while your marines spread out to mercilessly kill shit.
HMMMM. Interesting.
Everyday I wake up is the worst day of my life.
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NocrenLt Futz, Back in ActionNorth CarolinaRegistered Userregular
Ok, noob question:
Pinning. Basically a paper clip and tiny drill, right?
Pinning. Basically a paper clip and tiny drill, right?
A LD test, which when failed, sends you to ground until the start of your next turn.
Everyday I wake up is the worst day of my life.
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-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
All this Epic talk brings back my want for a 15mm Epic. Still small enough to have ginormous armies on a 6x4 table, but big enough to have fun painting them. It won't happen though, because GW have realised now people will by massive armies in 40k scale.
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NocrenLt Futz, Back in ActionNorth CarolinaRegistered Userregular
1. ToT, you didn't offend me. You are probably the #2 most abrasive personality around here... That's just who you are and that's your thing. No problem.
2. Never did I say that the person I was referring to was a national champion. I said he was a national level tournament player. I was not using that as any sort of "dick measuring" as I wasn't attempting to drop names, I was merely telling you the type of person I was talking about, to infer his ability to create strong lists that he knew how to use to the fullest potential. I think all of the people that post in this thread that know me, know that I would never resort to being an "internet tough guy" about anything. That's all I need.
3. Never did I say that I was blindly following information that he was giving me. Saying X was better because of Y, or This many things in this army can do these things. I was talking about a guy who I know, who I have played many times, who I have watched play games many times, and the things his army HAS done to me and others I know/have seen. I am fairly certain that Altmann has probably been wiped by this player once or twice before as well, though I cannot recall for certain at this time.
Anyways, Pointless discussion is pointless. Carry on.
@anon: You should use Ghost Arks and convert them to be Krooty as fuck for your raiders. That would be awesome, I think
The following people are amazing and I love them: Wildcat, Timspork, Kias, Denada, susan, Sharp101, [GHSC]Ryctor, Matev, Matrias, ItBurns, Slapnuts, Dayspring, see317, and the unknown poster that sent me a box of Death Company! If you get them as Santees you should buy them amazing things!
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valhalla13013 Dark Shield Perceives the GodsRegistered Userregular
Hey, Nax, have you ever been a chaplain in anyone's army?
Alternates I am thinking of:
Wracks (Savage orc body/kroot head/heavily tattoo'd when painting)
Trueborn (Lots of painted on tattoos/heavy use of bits webbing style bits)
Incubi (Exotic weapons/heavy armor)
Blasters are represented by Meltaguns that have been chopped and attached to kroot rifle stocks, then jurry rigged together.
Venoms are Storms that have all kroot crew, with Assault cannons on board for the cannon.
Blast Pistols are probably plasma pistols...since melta pistols are a pain in the ass to convert properly.
Sybarites are kroot with hunting spears and cloaks.
That's about as solid as it is right now. It's proving quite hard to get the kroot weapon arms to convert nicely. The fingers are fragile and they kits were not designed to really be messed with to much (odd joining angles and bad positioning of certain things).
Edit:
Possible ideas I'm toying with for Raiders include Ravens and Valk's. I personally think that Valkyries are a better route due to the fact that they are imperial...but are lighter armored than the Raven, making it a better representation for a Raider.
Chaplain? Hmmm..... I'm a Sergeant... a techo-abomination thing... a Grand Marshal... an insane space wolf... a Dreadnaught... an assault marine... a sentinel pilot... I'm missing a couple here, I'm fairly certain... But I don't believe I am a Chaplain yet
The following people are amazing and I love them: Wildcat, Timspork, Kias, Denada, susan, Sharp101, [GHSC]Ryctor, Matev, Matrias, ItBurns, Slapnuts, Dayspring, see317, and the unknown poster that sent me a box of Death Company! If you get them as Santees you should buy them amazing things!
Epic: Armageddon only had Marines, Orks and IG as official lists. Some supplements added Eldar and a variant IG list, but Chaos and other things like Tyranids were unfortunately left to other devices. So it can be kind of a bitch to find Epic 'nids minis . There's still stuff floating around from previous editions, and some of the tyranids 40k models can be used really easy as bio-titan conversions.
I wish there was more of a Dark Eldar presence in our area. Neckbeards kinda skipped over that release and held onto IG, SW, BA, and GK.
I'd love to play Dark Eldar - I love their vehicles - but the whole S&M culture thing isn't really my bag.
You would be retiring your Tyranids if there were more Dark Eldar players. The Dark Eldar codex is like one big fuck you to Tyranids.
So it is one of three? Fifth edition codexes that are big fuck yous to Tyranids, lol.
I played against BA tonight and won - we played 2250 for funsies. It was indeed a ton of fun. Lots of epic rolls. His terminators held a line against my dudes for what seemed like 4 hours of game time.
edit: Also I'd consider Epic if I could play Tyranids, but the only place to get them is on eBay and they're all from Britain so they cost $$$ and take forever to ship. Fuck that
The following people are amazing and I love them: Wildcat, Timspork, Kias, Denada, susan, Sharp101, [GHSC]Ryctor, Matev, Matrias, ItBurns, Slapnuts, Dayspring, see317, and the unknown poster that sent me a box of Death Company! If you get them as Santees you should buy them amazing things!
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-Loki-Don't pee in my mouth and tell me it's raining.Registered Userregular
I wish there was more of a Dark Eldar presence in our area. Neckbeards kinda skipped over that release and held onto IG, SW, BA, and GK.
I'd love to play Dark Eldar - I love their vehicles - but the whole S&M culture thing isn't really my bag.
You would be retiring your Tyranids if there were more Dark Eldar players. The Dark Eldar codex is like one big fuck you to Tyranids.
So it is one of three? Fifth edition codexes that are big fuck yous to Tyranids, lol.
Dark Eldar moreso. Regardless of Imperial Guards propensity for mech, and Wolf of the Wolf Wolf, everything in the Dark Eldar book is designed to give Tyranids a hard time. The only thing they have trouble against is hordes of smaller bugs, due to their guns (even bigger guns like Splinter Cannons) essentially becoming S3 against them and their melee units better at taking out MEQs. Even Tervigons don't help on the hrode front since it makes small units rather than large units, which is basically just handing the DE player a free pain token.
I was happy when my friend announced he'd be working on his Black Templars. I get to fight Marines ! Awesome! Not girly men who make monstrous creatures look like pussies.
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Gabriel_Pitt(effective against Russian warships)Registered Userregular
So these days, is there a better place to order GW (primarily finecast) online in the US than the Warstore?
You can literally google "Epic Tyranids for Sale" and get several sellers in the top results. It's not necessarily cheap (because its OOP), but it's available.
Posts
I don't see the difference between the two statements, to be honest. They both work out to "this guy, who knows way more about 40k than me, based on the only metric we really have to determine such, says x." Would I trust a guy who'd tested his stuff more? Yes, of course. But still, I'd rather "expert " advice, where available.
Anon, I was really wondering where you were going with the kroot. Dark Eldar sounds like an excellent choice.
We had a dude do a full relic blade honor guard in an apoc game. Everyone ignored them for "better units" and at the end of the game we realized they had carved through half of our line because we were wore out from fighting "better units".
Morale of the story - Apoc makes everything better.
I've heard so many good things about epic but know nothing about it.
WHY SO GOOD? QUANTIFY!
Plus, you get to use the full 40k arsenal: aerospace units, landers, orbital bombardments, Titans, etc, etc.
Here http://onyxworkshop.wordpress.com/epic-armageddon/
I enjoy converting?
HMMMM. Interesting.
Pinning. Basically a paper clip and tiny drill, right?
A LD test, which when failed, sends you to ground until the start of your next turn.
Let me rephrase that:
Pinning in regards to model building, essentially it only involves a hobby drill and paper clip piece correct?
Yup!
http://artofwar.shiftedmatrix.com/Pinning
The big rock is just a piece of cork, but all the rest is painted.
1. ToT, you didn't offend me. You are probably the #2 most abrasive personality around here... That's just who you are and that's your thing. No problem.
2. Never did I say that the person I was referring to was a national champion. I said he was a national level tournament player. I was not using that as any sort of "dick measuring" as I wasn't attempting to drop names, I was merely telling you the type of person I was talking about, to infer his ability to create strong lists that he knew how to use to the fullest potential. I think all of the people that post in this thread that know me, know that I would never resort to being an "internet tough guy" about anything. That's all I need.
3. Never did I say that I was blindly following information that he was giving me. Saying X was better because of Y, or This many things in this army can do these things. I was talking about a guy who I know, who I have played many times, who I have watched play games many times, and the things his army HAS done to me and others I know/have seen. I am fairly certain that Altmann has probably been wiped by this player once or twice before as well, though I cannot recall for certain at this time.
Anyways, Pointless discussion is pointless. Carry on.
@anon: You should use Ghost Arks and convert them to be Krooty as fuck for your raiders. That would be awesome, I think
I'm still waffling pretty hard about how to model certain things, but it's looking like this right now:
Haemoculus Ancient [Gamesday Kroot Shaper]
-Flesh Gauntlet
-Huskblade
-Hexrifle
-Crucible of Malediction
5x Kabalite Warriors [Standard Kroot]
-Sybarite (Ghostplate, Splinter pistol, Power weapon)
-Blaster
-Venom (Splinter Cannon, Grisly Trophies, Night Shields)
5x Kabalite Warriors [Standard Kroot]
-Sybarite (Ghostplate, Splinter pistol, Power weapon)
-Blaster
-Venom (Splinter Cannon, Grisly Trophies, Night Shields)
5x Scourges [Standard Kroot with DE Scourge feathered wings]
-Solarite (Blast Pistol, Venom Blade)
-2x Blaster
5x Scourges [Standard Kroot with DE Scourge feathered wings]
-Solarite (Blast Pistol, Venom Blade)
-2x Blaster
3x Reavers [Knarloc Riders]
-Arena Champion (Power Weapon, Caltrops)
-Blaster
-Grav-Talon
Alternates I am thinking of:
Wracks (Savage orc body/kroot head/heavily tattoo'd when painting)
Trueborn (Lots of painted on tattoos/heavy use of bits webbing style bits)
Incubi (Exotic weapons/heavy armor)
Blasters are represented by Meltaguns that have been chopped and attached to kroot rifle stocks, then jurry rigged together.
Venoms are Storms that have all kroot crew, with Assault cannons on board for the cannon.
Blast Pistols are probably plasma pistols...since melta pistols are a pain in the ass to convert properly.
Sybarites are kroot with hunting spears and cloaks.
That's about as solid as it is right now. It's proving quite hard to get the kroot weapon arms to convert nicely. The fingers are fragile and they kits were not designed to really be messed with to much (odd joining angles and bad positioning of certain things).
Edit:
Possible ideas I'm toying with for Raiders include Ravens and Valk's. I personally think that Valkyries are a better route due to the fact that they are imperial...but are lighter armored than the Raven, making it a better representation for a Raider.
...
...Nax is the raven my Rune Priest uses. When it crows, it goes, "Nax! Nax! Nax!"
Whew! Close one!
You wound me, sir!
RE: Epic - WHY AM NO TYRANIDS ON GW SITE? WUT?
I played against BA tonight and won - we played 2250 for funsies. It was indeed a ton of fun. Lots of epic rolls. His terminators held a line against my dudes for what seemed like 4 hours of game time.
edit: Also I'd consider Epic if I could play Tyranids, but the only place to get them is on eBay and they're all from Britain so they cost $$$ and take forever to ship. Fuck that
@Matrias: That is actually awesome :P
@TraceofToxin: Tell me I'm wrong
Dark Eldar moreso. Regardless of Imperial Guards propensity for mech, and Wolf of the Wolf Wolf, everything in the Dark Eldar book is designed to give Tyranids a hard time. The only thing they have trouble against is hordes of smaller bugs, due to their guns (even bigger guns like Splinter Cannons) essentially becoming S3 against them and their melee units better at taking out MEQs. Even Tervigons don't help on the hrode front since it makes small units rather than large units, which is basically just handing the DE player a free pain token.
I was happy when my friend announced he'd be working on his Black Templars. I get to fight Marines ! Awesome! Not girly men who make monstrous creatures look like pussies.
@Nax - People just aren't cultured enough to appreciate me. Harumph.
Also, FW discontinued their Epic Tyranids, and I wanted some of them