His self stated goal is to get people to read his "manifest" and spread the idea of cultural and ethnic isolationism. He maintains that the killings were mainly to garner attention and secondarily to wipe out the youth party.
Which begs the question - why do we give him that attention by this public a trial. Wouldn't it be better to lock him away and throw away the key?
His self stated goal is to get people to read his "manifest" and spread the idea of cultural and ethnic isolationism. He maintains that the killings were mainly to garner attention and secondarily to wipe out the youth party.
Which begs the question - why do we give him that attention by this public a trial. Wouldn't it be better to lock him away and throw away the key?
I've maintiained from the start that throwing him in an asylum for the rest of his life is pretty much the only way of not giving him what he wants.
His self stated goal is to get people to read his "manifest" and spread the idea of cultural and ethnic isolationism. He maintains that the killings were mainly to garner attention and secondarily to wipe out the youth party.
Which begs the question - why do we give him that attention by this public a trial. Wouldn't it be better to lock him away and throw away the key?
Because in Norway at least they understand that you can't just throw out the values that your justice system is based on because the nature of one persons crime is much worse than others, because a truly democratic justice system offers everybody the same rights and holds everybody accountable to the same laws.
Here's a part from a Swedish article, as fucked by Google Language Fucker.
- He is no leader of any movement, but Breivik has a political analysis of contemporary Europe. He believes it is in the hands of cowardly, liberal and politically correct powers that have allowed Europe to be invaded by an alien religious culture - Islam. It is Breiviks self perceived duty, on the basis that he assumed the identity as "true Norwegian" to start the crusade against these people. This is his attack on the Norwegian Social Democrats - who are not Muslims but the traitor who let in Muslims in Norway - a modern form of fascism.
Fascism is thus a political ideology that can be explained, not a mental illness. With knowledge of fascism's world of ideas will be Anders Breiviks mass murder logical and understandable. There will also be his behavior in the courtroom, which otherwise seem pathological.
If we understand Breiviks conviction we also understand why he is smiling in court why he "refuses to understand what he has done" as was incorrectly named in the press. The reality is the opposite; Breivik smiles because he very much understands what he has done. He has conducted the most beautiful thing a fascist can do: the action! Through its mass murder has Breivik seriously injured shot the younger "traitors" in the Norwegian "Marxism" of the future Norwegian Social Democratic leaders are most likely dead. The party is badly damaged.
Breivik has won. Therefore, he smiles.
Sidenote: that translation actually wasn't too fucked. I'm impressed, Google Language Fucker!
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
His self stated goal is to get people to read his "manifest" and spread the idea of cultural and ethnic isolationism. He maintains that the killings were mainly to garner attention and secondarily to wipe out the youth party.
Which begs the question - why do we give him that attention by this public a trial. Wouldn't it be better to lock him away and throw away the key?
Because in Norway at least they understand that you can't just throw out the values that your justice system is based on because the nature of one persons crime is much worse than others, because a truly democratic justice system offers everybody the same rights and holds everybody accountable to the same laws.
I don't think you read that correctly. He was asking why he needed to have a trial that is as public as it is, when that's exactly what Breivik is after?
His self stated goal is to get people to read his "manifest" and spread the idea of cultural and ethnic isolationism. He maintains that the killings were mainly to garner attention and secondarily to wipe out the youth party.
Which begs the question - why do we give him that attention by this public a trial. Wouldn't it be better to lock him away and throw away the key?
Because there is a need for Norwegian society to come to some sort of understanding or comprehension of this heinous crime. The main question of this case will very likely be whether or not he can be held accountable for his actions. We deserve to see the evidence that is weighed by the court in this matter. Also, his ideology at its core is fucking stupid and will convince no one who isn't already a believer.
Personally, what he wants is inconsequential to me. As soon as I saw him cry tears of joy at his little slide show video (that reminded me a lot of the Dutch Fitna video) I knew he was a ridiculous person and that his emotions and motives were essentially meaningless. I'm thinking less "man battles the powers that be for his ideas" and more "baby throws tantrum".
His self stated goal is to get people to read his "manifest" and spread the idea of cultural and ethnic isolationism. He maintains that the killings were mainly to garner attention and secondarily to wipe out the youth party.
Which begs the question - why do we give him that attention by this public a trial. Wouldn't it be better to lock him away and throw away the key?
Because in Norway at least they understand that you can't just throw out the values that your justice system is based on because the nature of one persons crime is much worse than others, because a truly democratic justice system offers everybody the same rights and holds everybody accountable to the same laws.
I don't think you read that correctly. He was asking why he needed to have a trial that is as public as it is, when that's exactly what Breivik is after?
Oh right, sorry! I misunderstood him then. Although there's not too much they could have done about that either, even if they'd made the trial less public the worlds press would still be outside the court speculating about what might be said or hounding people who were present.
They ignore the pages and pages of description in his "manifesto" where he explains how he procured his weapons. How he joined a gun club and spent time at a shooting range to lay the groundwork for getting a gun permit. How he traveled to Praha looking for weapons.
Part of the reason is that the gun club, which could have really shed some light on his gun history, clammed up after the attacks. No Comments from day one. Smart for the gun club, bad for the rest of us.
It will probably all come out in the next couple of weeks, but by then it will be too late to change the mainstream media story.
In fairness, I don't know that it's reasonable to blame the gun club either. Obviously, yes, an actual target range will improve your marksmanship, but:
1) He didn't need excellent marksmanship anyway, and he didn't demonstrate any extreme long-range proficiency with his weapon. He was shooting at children at pont-blank range most of the time.
2) My (admittedly pretty limited) experience with gun clubs is that their foremost objective is teaching you to respect the power of a firearm, then how to make effective use of it & maintain it. Assuming that this is the case with this gun club as well, Breivik, in essence, would've been abusing their trust / lessons.
In Norway to get a license to own a gun like Brevik used ,you need to be a member of a gun club and show that you participate in activities with said gun club. You can't just sign up and never show up, you have to get the gun club to vouch that you where a active member. Since his weapons where legal, this means the gun club vouched for him, which means he had to spend time with other gun club members and participate in gun club activities.
It has nothing to do with his marksmanship and everything to do with them not spotting that he was a loon looking for weapons. By comparison the people that sold him the fertilizer wondered why he hadn't used it.
There is no way the gun club doesn't come out of this looking bad and they probably know it. That's why they are keeping mum.
The sky was full of stars, every star an exploding ship. One of ours.
Oh and the Trial is public to meet his charges in public. Make him explain himself so the world can see him for the undiluted nutbag he is.
If you show him into a hole and try to ignore him, you lend credence to his claims. Show him crying over a bad youtube vid. While later on he talks about shooting kids with the same emotional level most of us use describing nailclippings. This reveals him to be a crazy nutter to the world. Discrediting his argument.
Kipling217 on
The sky was full of stars, every star an exploding ship. One of ours.
They ignore the pages and pages of description in his "manifesto" where he explains how he procured his weapons. How he joined a gun club and spent time at a shooting range to lay the groundwork for getting a gun permit. How he traveled to Praha looking for weapons.
Part of the reason is that the gun club, which could have really shed some light on his gun history, clammed up after the attacks. No Comments from day one. Smart for the gun club, bad for the rest of us.
It will probably all come out in the next couple of weeks, but by then it will be too late to change the mainstream media story.
In fairness, I don't know that it's reasonable to blame the gun club either. Obviously, yes, an actual target range will improve your marksmanship, but:
1) He didn't need excellent marksmanship anyway, and he didn't demonstrate any extreme long-range proficiency with his weapon. He was shooting at children at pont-blank range most of the time.
2) My (admittedly pretty limited) experience with gun clubs is that their foremost objective is teaching you to respect the power of a firearm, then how to make effective use of it & maintain it. Assuming that this is the case with this gun club as well, Breivik, in essence, would've been abusing their trust / lessons.
In Norway to get a license to own a gun like Brevik used ,you need to be a member of a gun club and show that you participate in activities with said gun club. You can't just sign up and never show up, you have to get the gun club to vouch that you where a active member. Since his weapons where legal, this means the gun club vouched for him, which means he had to spend time with other gun club members and participate in gun club activities.
It has nothing to do with his marksmanship and everything to do with them not spotting that he was a loon looking for weapons. By comparison the people that sold him the fertilizer wondered why he hadn't used it.
There is no way the gun club doesn't come out of this looking bad and they probably know it. That's why they are keeping mum.
In their defense Brevik was a smart psychopath. Don't confuse utterly misguided political ideology with being stupid. He planned and executed the whole plan over a period of years, he even thought of using WoW as a cover story for his isolation. Given that level of forethought and preparation, I have no doubt he would have been extremely guarded about what he said around the gun club, he was probably charming and affable every minute he spent there. This is more a systemic failure than an individual failure on the part of the gun club. This is one of those times when you have to recognize that if you're going to make guns freely available to the public by legal means, even with checks like Norway has, a smart and determined person like Brevik can abuse the system. If you make guns available at all, then you have to accept that things like this are going to happen from time to time.
Posts
Which begs the question - why do we give him that attention by this public a trial. Wouldn't it be better to lock him away and throw away the key?
I've maintiained from the start that throwing him in an asylum for the rest of his life is pretty much the only way of not giving him what he wants.
Because in Norway at least they understand that you can't just throw out the values that your justice system is based on because the nature of one persons crime is much worse than others, because a truly democratic justice system offers everybody the same rights and holds everybody accountable to the same laws.
3DS friend code: 4811-7214-5053
Sidenote: that translation actually wasn't too fucked. I'm impressed, Google Language Fucker!
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
I don't think you read that correctly. He was asking why he needed to have a trial that is as public as it is, when that's exactly what Breivik is after?
Because there is a need for Norwegian society to come to some sort of understanding or comprehension of this heinous crime. The main question of this case will very likely be whether or not he can be held accountable for his actions. We deserve to see the evidence that is weighed by the court in this matter. Also, his ideology at its core is fucking stupid and will convince no one who isn't already a believer.
Personally, what he wants is inconsequential to me. As soon as I saw him cry tears of joy at his little slide show video (that reminded me a lot of the Dutch Fitna video) I knew he was a ridiculous person and that his emotions and motives were essentially meaningless. I'm thinking less "man battles the powers that be for his ideas" and more "baby throws tantrum".
Oh right, sorry! I misunderstood him then. Although there's not too much they could have done about that either, even if they'd made the trial less public the worlds press would still be outside the court speculating about what might be said or hounding people who were present.
3DS friend code: 4811-7214-5053
In Norway to get a license to own a gun like Brevik used ,you need to be a member of a gun club and show that you participate in activities with said gun club. You can't just sign up and never show up, you have to get the gun club to vouch that you where a active member. Since his weapons where legal, this means the gun club vouched for him, which means he had to spend time with other gun club members and participate in gun club activities.
It has nothing to do with his marksmanship and everything to do with them not spotting that he was a loon looking for weapons. By comparison the people that sold him the fertilizer wondered why he hadn't used it.
There is no way the gun club doesn't come out of this looking bad and they probably know it. That's why they are keeping mum.
If you show him into a hole and try to ignore him, you lend credence to his claims. Show him crying over a bad youtube vid. While later on he talks about shooting kids with the same emotional level most of us use describing nailclippings. This reveals him to be a crazy nutter to the world. Discrediting his argument.
In their defense Brevik was a smart psychopath. Don't confuse utterly misguided political ideology with being stupid. He planned and executed the whole plan over a period of years, he even thought of using WoW as a cover story for his isolation. Given that level of forethought and preparation, I have no doubt he would have been extremely guarded about what he said around the gun club, he was probably charming and affable every minute he spent there. This is more a systemic failure than an individual failure on the part of the gun club. This is one of those times when you have to recognize that if you're going to make guns freely available to the public by legal means, even with checks like Norway has, a smart and determined person like Brevik can abuse the system. If you make guns available at all, then you have to accept that things like this are going to happen from time to time.