There are a couple studios workin on the Sims. The place I work at (EA salt lake) was given control of the last 3DS game and that latest expansion (showtime). There is also EA redwood shores that is also making the next expansion pack. We use to be the EAplay label, but was changed to MAXIS when a new exec was hired (Who is someone that worked on the original sim city and the sims).
There's 4 videos -- the first GlassBox trailer that we've all seen, and then 3 of these -- The Eco-loop, Water system, Fire system. They just show how they're applying the unit/agent/resource module, which is fairly straightforward.
One interesting thing I guess is that they explain how simple it was for them to model fire -- things are flammable, they radiate "Heat" via an agent, send out requests to Fire Stations as an agent, and eventually run out of resources and die. The speaker then goes on to say that these bundles are pretty modular, and they can easily add new mechanics to the game by just dropping in more bundles.
Hm. For some reason the agent system they have presented in these videos is causing my skeptic sense to tingle.
...Does this seem pretty pie in the sky to anyone else?
Not really. From a programming POV it makes a lot of sense.
EDIT: Agents are container objects. The resources they contain are likely both a traversal algorithm and raw data. The water resource, for example, tells the agent to move down the pipes and transfer a certain amount of the water number from it to home units along the path.
Ok fine. Civ 5 is a terrible example, etc. I was just bringing up an example of Day 1 mod support when you said earlier that hardly any games do that. Civ 5 stood out in my mind as a game that is very supportive of the modding community.
If you want to disprove that claim, you need to bring more than one counter-example. If you can only manage one counter-example, that kind of just proves the original point there.
Almost every Paradox game?
(I don't really care; I'd hope for mod support because the only thing keeping SC4 playble is NAM...but I am so disheartened by all of this online-based stuff that I don't much care about mod support when considering I may not even buy the game if its main focus isn't on letting me build the city and region that I want.)
Where is this kind of stuff coming from. You're not going to be forced to play in a multiplayer region.
From all the games that have added in a "multiplayer focus" and then trended more and more multiplayer centric. Even if there are claims that it's "singleplayer at heart" or anything similar.
Or even just from the SC4 attempt at trying to integrate very loose elements from The Sims.
Hm. For some reason the agent system they have presented in these videos is causing my skeptic sense to tingle.
...Does this seem pretty pie in the sky to anyone else?
No. It seems like exactly the thing that the Caesar/Pharao/Zeus series, Settlers series and the Anno series have been doing since their beginning. They're just not using as many marketing buzzwords.
eobet on
Heard the proposition that RIAA and MPAA should join forces and form "Music And Film Industry Association"?
Hm. For some reason the agent system they have presented in these videos is causing my skeptic sense to tingle.
...Does this seem pretty pie in the sky to anyone else?
I had the opposite reaction, actually...I'm kind of underwhelmed by GlassBox.
If someone told me to model something like SimCity, that's exactly the kind of design I would use. Not that I think it's insufficient, just that I don't see why they're so excited about it. My question is more "why is this just now a thing?" And the answer is that 10 years ago we didn't have the processing power (or multithreading!) to do it on a scale that they wanted for SimCity.
Hm. For some reason the agent system they have presented in these videos is causing my skeptic sense to tingle.
...Does this seem pretty pie in the sky to anyone else?
I had the opposite reaction, actually...I'm kind of underwhelmed by GlassBox.
If someone told me to model something like SimCity, that's exactly the kind of design I would use. Not that I think it's insufficient, just that I don't see why they're so excited about it. My question is more "why is this just now a thing?" And the answer is that 10 years ago we didn't have the processing power (or multithreading!) to do it on a scale that they wanted for SimCity.
I'm the same. Personally, I think the old electricity and water models were largely fine, though certainly not beyond improving. Really the biggest issue in this area was traffic routing AI.
I can see how extensible it is as a framework. Say they wanted to add in something like gang warfare (or mod it in). All you need to do is radiate out gang influence as an agent, and maybe have a radius of negative influence around police stations. Then abandoned homes or low-rent neighborhoods could possibly generate enough gang influence to create a problem with everyday Sim citizens turning to robbery/shooting/etc.
It just doesn't strike me as a groundbreaking approach or anything.
Yeah, it's definitely not mindblowing. It IS incredibly extensible. All you really need to do is create new types of resources that tell the agents how to move, at what speed/frequency, when to deploy their payload, and what that payload does to units.
Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
I can see the reason for putting everything on the agent system is one of pure flexibility, including during testing. If you base a large part of your program's functions on a single design element or algorithm, then testing it or improving it has a positive effect on the entire application.
I imagine Maxis put the electricity and water grids on the agent system is because the agent system was already in place, worked, and did everything that they needed it to do in order to support those grids. Besides, since it'll be invisible to the end user, using the agent systems for the utilities grids will be pretty much just like the older infrastructure styles.
With the agent system, I imagine SC5 is going to modded to a level that no other Simcity has seen. Just about anything can be done based on that framework.
With the agent system, I imagine SC5 is going to modded to a level that no other Simcity has seen. Just about anything can be done based on that framework.
Until EA bans players from even their single player game for using mods for cheating, you mean?
Heard the proposition that RIAA and MPAA should join forces and form "Music And Film Industry Association"?
They say that all these visual details are part of the debugging platform for the simulation. Personally, I think they should give us the user's these kinds of tools so we can actually watch how things are working in our cities.
So I haven't been keeping up on this as much as I'd like -- are they still going with a zone+ algorithm system to determine what buildings are where (i.e., I zone a place Residential, then the variables in the city actually determine who moves in and what houses they build), or are they going with a Sims / Societies / etc style system where I have to place each individual building?
Edit: Also, hey, Simcity 4 is on Steam, $20 for the full kit. I hear it apparently has mod support -- what mods are generally considered required?
That's a good question, I'd like to know about the zone algorithm too, because I really dislike Societies/Cities XL where I place each building individually.
The only mod required is the Network Addon Mod (NAM)
This. This is what I'm most excited for. You could, technically, do different types of cities in 4 if you felt like crippling yourself and trying to force a round gameplay peg into a square hole, and if you were actually successful it just meant your farming community would turn into the same damn "big city" every other one did. It sounds like they had the same problem with that as I did and I'm so happy to hear them say they're addressing it.
It's a little sad knowing the game won't look as good as those cinematics, but hey, life goes on. It actually leaves me with a dilemma--on one hand, seeing your city actually being built, with cranes and gantries and workers--is phenomenal. There was a mod for SC4 that would show placed buildings actually being constructed over time.
On the other hand, there is something incredibly whimsical and charming about dropping a nuclear power station's cooling tower onto a concrete lot and *PLOP* everything works.
With the agent system, I imagine SC5 is going to modded to a level that no other Simcity has seen. Just about anything can be done based on that framework.
Until EA bans players from even their single player game for using mods for cheating, you mean?
I'm still laughing at some occurrences of this.
"Bioware got upset at you guys using cheats to get around buying weapons that you otherwise have to grind or, heaven forbid, pay Bioware fun bucks for? My goodness gracious! I can't believe it!"
So I haven't been keeping up on this as much as I'd like -- are they still going with a zone+ algorithm system to determine what buildings are where (i.e., I zone a place Residential, then the variables in the city actually determine who moves in and what houses they build), or are they going with a Sims / Societies / etc style system where I have to place each individual building?
Edit: Also, hey, Simcity 4 is on Steam, $20 for the full kit. I hear it apparently has mod support -- what mods are generally considered required?
NAM, man, NAM. Seriously, it's not perfect but it adds a huge amount to the transport infrastructure. I'd also recommend the mods that allow you to build subways/bus lines as road tiles, rather than separate buildings.
This does hurt. It really shouldn't be that difficult for them to put in a mode that allows you to be all by yourself with saving and reloading enabled, even with the always-online DRM. Or are they planning to put in a real-money auction house full of your city's masses for hire in another city as illegal immigrants? (Doesn't sound like a bad idea really haha)
Watched an Origin sponsored interview live this afternoon. Just regurgitated all the info we already know and wouldn't take on any of my questions. Bummer.
Are they taking into consideration any of the mod community ideas? Can I pleeeeease have a save game/destroy city/reload game option? Any chance to have hiking and biking trails?
This does hurt. It really shouldn't be that difficult for them to put in a mode that allows you to be all by yourself with saving and reloading enabled, even with the always-online DRM. Or are they planning to put in a real-money auction house full of your city's masses for hire in another city as illegal immigrants? (Doesn't sound like a bad idea really haha)
If it worked for D3 it'll work for Sim City I guess.
I'll probably end up buying the game, and then as soon as its available, I'll download whatever I can to make it so I can do what I want.
If Sim City 5 follows the D3 model I'll skip on it.
Right now this new information has me wavering a little. To be entirely unable to save and reload points to a very online-centric design.
See, the thing is I've always loved these games. But if we can't save and reload, it's going to be one where I simply wait for a dirt bottom price deal before even considering buying it. And probably by then the mod community will have made it a decent game. If mods are even able to be done. Which they might not with this online junk. Ugh.
Posts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9QYdwkXo4Q
There's 4 videos -- the first GlassBox trailer that we've all seen, and then 3 of these -- The Eco-loop, Water system, Fire system. They just show how they're applying the unit/agent/resource module, which is fairly straightforward.
One interesting thing I guess is that they explain how simple it was for them to model fire -- things are flammable, they radiate "Heat" via an agent, send out requests to Fire Stations as an agent, and eventually run out of resources and die. The speaker then goes on to say that these bundles are pretty modular, and they can easily add new mechanics to the game by just dropping in more bundles.
...Does this seem pretty pie in the sky to anyone else?
Not really. From a programming POV it makes a lot of sense.
EDIT: Agents are container objects. The resources they contain are likely both a traversal algorithm and raw data. The water resource, for example, tells the agent to move down the pipes and transfer a certain amount of the water number from it to home units along the path.
From all the games that have added in a "multiplayer focus" and then trended more and more multiplayer centric. Even if there are claims that it's "singleplayer at heart" or anything similar.
Or even just from the SC4 attempt at trying to integrate very loose elements from The Sims.
No. It seems like exactly the thing that the Caesar/Pharao/Zeus series, Settlers series and the Anno series have been doing since their beginning. They're just not using as many marketing buzzwords.
If someone told me to model something like SimCity, that's exactly the kind of design I would use. Not that I think it's insufficient, just that I don't see why they're so excited about it. My question is more "why is this just now a thing?" And the answer is that 10 years ago we didn't have the processing power (or multithreading!) to do it on a scale that they wanted for SimCity.
I'm the same. Personally, I think the old electricity and water models were largely fine, though certainly not beyond improving. Really the biggest issue in this area was traffic routing AI.
It just doesn't strike me as a groundbreaking approach or anything.
I imagine Maxis put the electricity and water grids on the agent system is because the agent system was already in place, worked, and did everything that they needed it to do in order to support those grids. Besides, since it'll be invisible to the end user, using the agent systems for the utilities grids will be pretty much just like the older infrastructure styles.
With the agent system, I imagine SC5 is going to modded to a level that no other Simcity has seen. Just about anything can be done based on that framework.
Until EA bans players from even their single player game for using mods for cheating, you mean?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hro0BEquiPE#!
Edit: Also, hey, Simcity 4 is on Steam, $20 for the full kit. I hear it apparently has mod support -- what mods are generally considered required?
The only mod required is the Network Addon Mod (NAM)
Yeah, one of the videos (hell if I know which) had them specifically say they're going with the SimCity zoning style.
http://youtu.be/ZQ79RvO3Fkk
This. This is what I'm most excited for. You could, technically, do different types of cities in 4 if you felt like crippling yourself and trying to force a round gameplay peg into a square hole, and if you were actually successful it just meant your farming community would turn into the same damn "big city" every other one did. It sounds like they had the same problem with that as I did and I'm so happy to hear them say they're addressing it.
On the other hand, there is something incredibly whimsical and charming about dropping a nuclear power station's cooling tower onto a concrete lot and *PLOP* everything works.
I'm still laughing at some occurrences of this.
"Bioware got upset at you guys using cheats to get around buying weapons that you otherwise have to grind or, heaven forbid, pay Bioware fun bucks for? My goodness gracious! I can't believe it!"
NAM, man, NAM. Seriously, it's not perfect but it adds a huge amount to the transport infrastructure. I'd also recommend the mods that allow you to build subways/bus lines as road tiles, rather than separate buildings.
The aesthetic is awfully cute and well-executed. Would've preferred something a little more... grounded, I guess, but it's not a big deal.
Edit: Right video now. Get out of there, Tomb Raider.
Old PA forum lookalike style for the new forums | My ko-fi donation thing.
Old PA forum lookalike style for the new forums | My ko-fi donation thing.
I hope the Sim traffic isn't as insane as it is in 4.
This does hurt. It really shouldn't be that difficult for them to put in a mode that allows you to be all by yourself with saving and reloading enabled, even with the always-online DRM. Or are they planning to put in a real-money auction house full of your city's masses for hire in another city as illegal immigrants? (Doesn't sound like a bad idea really haha)
Are they taking into consideration any of the mod community ideas? Can I pleeeeease have a save game/destroy city/reload game option? Any chance to have hiking and biking trails?
If it worked for D3 it'll work for Sim City I guess.
I'll probably end up buying the game, and then as soon as its available, I'll download whatever I can to make it so I can do what I want.
Right now this new information has me wavering a little. To be entirely unable to save and reload points to a very online-centric design.
Old PA forum lookalike style for the new forums | My ko-fi donation thing.
See, the thing is I've always loved these games. But if we can't save and reload, it's going to be one where I simply wait for a dirt bottom price deal before even considering buying it. And probably by then the mod community will have made it a decent game. If mods are even able to be done. Which they might not with this online junk. Ugh.
Edit: I think it's restricted to public buildings. Also, "Ploppables" is a terrible name for them.
http://www.simcity.com/en_US/game/info/constructible-worlds
In the modern era I can see that given the design review boards that exist in many cities to preserve the character of a city.