I could see why you think the Lion Turtle thing came out of nowhere if you think that Azula wasn't well on her way to a breakdown because of her outright sociopathic tendencies.
I'd ask you why you think the Lion Turtle and Energy Bending didn't come out of nowhere but you'd talk about the Lion Turtle being in the background/ Spirits helped the Avatar before and that misses the point of the criticism.
And really whats the point?
I'd say it fits right in thematically because Aang's entire story is about reconciling his own nature with that of the avatar, and he has always had to find his own path to the avatar state that fits within his ethos.
That's why he ran away and got trapped in the iceberg, that's why he had so much difficulty unlocking his chakras and the avatar state, that's why he had to come up with his own way of getting past the seemingly impassible barrier of achieving peace without killing the firelord. In the first situation he reacts by running away, in the second he tries to work through it but fails, in his final test he transcends the expectations of him and relies on his own strength, his connection to the spirit world, to overcome the situation.
They pretty much give all of this to you when Aang is learning to earthbend - it's not at all in his personality to confront directly. "Maybe there's another way... what if I came at the boulder from another angle?"
we've got the eastern air temple and the western air temple on the opposite sides of the map
what's on the other side of the world
or are they secretly right beside each other or something
Stop seeing the world as flat. Fixes that right quick.
0
Options
HarrierThe Star Spangled ManRegistered Userregular
I'm going to agree with the Lion Turtle not being foreshadowed, or at least not foreshadowed properly. A few appearances as statues in the background isn't enough, not for the hinge of the entire finale. And if you're not going to foreshadow the Lion Turtle, at least foreshadow energybending. Maybe have Aang accidentally do it at some point earlier in the show.
I don't wanna kill anybody. I don't like bullies. I don't care where they're from.
He was a pacifist. He never wanted to fight. He never wanted to kill.
But he began to see it as necessary to kill the Firelord and wanted a way out.
He found anti-bending, and that was his way out.
Again, it treats it so the reason why Aang would have to kill the Firelord is because of his powerful bending. "I have a problem! I do not want to kill Ozai! But it looks like I have to! What do I do?" *BAM ENERGYBENDING* "Good! Now I don't have to kill him!"
If he was going to spare Ozai, I would have rather he spared him in full as to recognize that it isn't the bending that makes him powerful.
Firebenders put a lot of stock in personal merit. To the point that they went out of their way to kill dragons to prove that they have the biggest Firebending dick around to wave in people's faces. Their ritual contests take the form of dueling with fire to resolve matters of personal honor. Azula was praised in her youth for her excellent progress in her Firebending education and Zuko was treated with contempt and disgust for his awkward and fumbling attempts.
And people in Ozai's regime probably admired a warrior ethos.
Accomplished Firebending = Strong Martial Leadership.
Firebending makes Ozai a figurehead and adds to his royal stature. Remember, Azula believes in a literal Divine Mandate to rule. This means that personal merit can be taken as a proof of Royalty. (Both Azula and Zuko have used spat the word "peasant" as an insult, which is entirely a result of this Divine Mandate mentality.)
On a more pragmatic consideration, Ozai is a much more dangerous prisoner if he has access to his Firebending. It takes less of a security failure than it would with a non-Bender for him become a threat, particularly since he's a highly educated and seasoned fighter.
I could see why you think the Lion Turtle thing came out of nowhere if you think that Azula wasn't well on her way to a breakdown because of her outright sociopathic tendencies.
I'd ask you why you think the Lion Turtle and Energy Bending didn't come out of nowhere but you'd talk about the Lion Turtle being in the background/ Spirits helped the Avatar before and that misses the point of the criticism.
And really whats the point?
I'd say it fits right in thematically because Aang's entire story is about reconciling his own nature with that of the avatar, and he has always had to find his own path to the avatar state that fits within his ethos.
That's why he ran away and got trapped in the iceberg, that's why he had so much difficulty unlocking his chakras and the avatar state, that's why he had to come up with his own way of getting past the seemingly impassible barrier of achieving peace without killing the firelord. In the first situation he reacts by running away, in the second he tries to work through it but fails, in his final test he transcends the expectations of him and relies on his own strength, his connection to the spirit world, to overcome the situation.
They pretty much give all of this to you when Aang is learning to earthbend - it's not at all in his personality to confront directly. "Maybe there's another way... what if I came at the boulder from another angle?"
See I agree with this. I think this whole learning energy bending idea works great for Aang's story but I think he should have had to seek it out. I don't think the Lion Turtle should have come to Aang and apparently mind-controlled him into getting on the his back.
And I don't like that the Lion Turtle's motivations are completely speculative which would not be an issue if it had been Aang that sought him out.
i can't wait for further elaboration of spirit world mythos in legend of korra
i can see why some people aren't happy with the Lion Turtle showing up to provide easy resolution to Aang's whole pacifism colliding with his goal to stop Ozai thing
buuut, i loved the Lion Turtle. his very existence really gave a taste of how epic the mythos is outside of the avatar.
I could see why you think the Lion Turtle thing came out of nowhere if you think that Azula wasn't well on her way to a breakdown because of her outright sociopathic tendencies.
I'd ask you why you think the Lion Turtle and Energy Bending didn't come out of nowhere but you'd talk about the Lion Turtle being in the background/ Spirits helped the Avatar before and that misses the point of the criticism.
And really whats the point?
it misses the point of the criticism that the actual creature had plenty of foreshadowing and so did its methods?
let me explain something to you
there are things
in the universe
called patterns
What are the examples of "help from the spirits" that had similiar levels of foreshadowing in the series within the context of the story being told?
Because Aang's pacifism and refusal to kill dated back to the start of the series, so the issue with fighting Ozai dated that far back. In roughly 60 episodes, it took until episode 59 or 60 for spiritbending to be mentioned.
These are the episodes in which Aang direct guidance from the spirit world. Not even just talking to Roku, I mean he actually entered the spirit world during a time of emotional crisis or an emissary from the spirit world or spiritual master showed up to give him guidance.
"The Spirit World (Winter Solstice, Part 1)
"Avatar Roku (Winter Solstice, Part 2)"
"The Siege of the North, Part 1"
"The Siege of the North, Part 2"
"The Avatar State"
"The Swamp"
"The Library"
"The Guru"
"The Awakening"
"The Avatar and the Firelord"
"Sozin's Comet, Part 1: The Phoenix King"
"Sozin's Comet, Part 2: The Old Masters"
"Sozin's Comet, Part 3: Into the Inferno"
"Sozin's Comet, Part 4: Avatar Aang"
Those episodes, excluding the final four, are the foreshadowing for the final example. That's the whole point.
And of course no one mentioned energybending before because no one's done it since before the avatar even existed. That's the nature of the thing.
I could see why you think the Lion Turtle thing came out of nowhere if you think that Azula wasn't well on her way to a breakdown because of her outright sociopathic tendencies.
I'd ask you why you think the Lion Turtle and Energy Bending didn't come out of nowhere but you'd talk about the Lion Turtle being in the background/ Spirits helped the Avatar before and that misses the point of the criticism.
And really whats the point?
it misses the point of the criticism that the actual creature had plenty of foreshadowing and so did its methods?
let me explain something to you
there are things
in the universe
called patterns
I'd disagree. The audience has to pick up on your pattern because you actually bothered to communicate to them. Picking up an arbitrary and incidental plot detail doesn't really do that. They needed to spend more air-time away from silly hijinks introducing this Spirit World crap.
Arguably that's not the fault of the crew, since they probably would've devoted an episode to doing just that if they had the budget/time.
wait what
aang goes to the spirit world like six or seven times
sokka even says, outright, "Aang disappears on the eve of a major battle? It's gotta be a trip to the spirit world!"
Yeah, but I thought the treatment of the Spirit World is pretty facile. The fact that people used to bend the principle stuff of the Spirit Wold at the dawn of history is a pretty goddamn important cosmological point.
If we had been told about the history and been given some perspective on how their world is supposed to work, then it becomes a lot easier to swallow that a reincarnated demi-god could do this kind of thing.
We'd be, "Okay, this Avatar has been given all the powers he needs to solve all imbalances forever. Makes sense."
Twenty Sided on
0
Options
HarrierThe Star Spangled ManRegistered Userregular
And as long as we're hurling shit at the wall, I was unsatisfied with the way Katara was used in the finale. Taken on its own, her beating Azula was pretty fantastic. In the context of the ending, however, I got the feeling that she was only there because they couldn't think of anything else for her to do.
I don't wanna kill anybody. I don't like bullies. I don't care where they're from.
0
Options
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
I could see why you think the Lion Turtle thing came out of nowhere if you think that Azula wasn't well on her way to a breakdown because of her outright sociopathic tendencies.
I'd ask you why you think the Lion Turtle and Energy Bending didn't come out of nowhere but you'd talk about the Lion Turtle being in the background/ Spirits helped the Avatar before and that misses the point of the criticism.
And really whats the point?
it misses the point of the criticism that the actual creature had plenty of foreshadowing and so did its methods?
let me explain something to you
there are things
in the universe
called patterns
What are the examples of "help from the spirits" that had similiar levels of foreshadowing in the series within the context of the story being told?
Because Aang's pacifism and refusal to kill dated back to the start of the series, so the issue with fighting Ozai dated that far back. In roughly 60 episodes, it took until episode 59 or 60 for spiritbending to be mentioned.
These are the episodes in which Aang direct guidance from the spirit world. Not even just talking to Roku, I mean he actually entered the spirit world during a time of emotional crisis or an emissary from the spirit world or spiritual master showed up to give him guidance.
"The Spirit World (Winter Solstice, Part 1)
"Avatar Roku (Winter Solstice, Part 2)"
"The Siege of the North, Part 1"
"The Siege of the North, Part 2"
"The Avatar State"
"The Swamp"
"The Library"
"The Guru"
"The Awakening"
"The Avatar and the Firelord"
"Sozin's Comet, Part 1: The Phoenix King"
"Sozin's Comet, Part 2: The Old Masters"
"Sozin's Comet, Part 3: Into the Inferno"
"Sozin's Comet, Part 4: Avatar Aang"
Those episodes, excluding the final four, are the foreshadowing for the final example. That's the whole point.
And of course no one mentioned energybending before because no one's done it since before the avatar even existed. That's the nature of the thing.
None of those episodes introduced a problem in the first minute that was resolved by a force that was not mentioned or unexplained until the last minute.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
I could see why you think the Lion Turtle thing came out of nowhere if you think that Azula wasn't well on her way to a breakdown because of her outright sociopathic tendencies.
I'd ask you why you think the Lion Turtle and Energy Bending didn't come out of nowhere but you'd talk about the Lion Turtle being in the background/ Spirits helped the Avatar before and that misses the point of the criticism.
And really whats the point?
it misses the point of the criticism that the actual creature had plenty of foreshadowing and so did its methods?
let me explain something to you
there are things
in the universe
called patterns
I'd disagree. The audience has to pick up on your pattern because you actually bothered to communicate to them. Picking up an arbitrary and incidental plot detail doesn't really do that. They needed to spend more air-time away from silly hijinks introducing this Spirit World crap.
Arguably that's not the fault of the crew, since they probably would've devoted an episode to doing just that if they had the budget/time.
wait what
aang goes to the spirit world like six or seven times
sokka even says, outright, "Aang disappears on the eve of a major battle? It's gotta be a trip to the spirit world!"
Yeah, but I thought the treatment of the Spirit World is pretty facile. The fact that people used to bend the principle stuff of the Spirit Wold at the dawn of history is a pretty goddamn important cosmological point.
If we had been told about the history and been given some perspective on how their world is supposed to work, then it becomes a lot easier to swallow that a reincarnated demi-god could do this kind of thing.
why on earth would people living thousands of years later have any memory of it
the reason the lion-turtle remembers is because he was there
the lion-turtle is mysterious because he is a giant immortal fucking god-beast lion-turtle spirit-creature from before the dawn of humanity
his methods are not easy to parse
0
Options
BroloBroseidonLord of the BroceanRegistered Userregular
I could see why you think the Lion Turtle thing came out of nowhere if you think that Azula wasn't well on her way to a breakdown because of her outright sociopathic tendencies.
I'd ask you why you think the Lion Turtle and Energy Bending didn't come out of nowhere but you'd talk about the Lion Turtle being in the background/ Spirits helped the Avatar before and that misses the point of the criticism.
And really whats the point?
I'd say it fits right in thematically because Aang's entire story is about reconciling his own nature with that of the avatar, and he has always had to find his own path to the avatar state that fits within his ethos.
That's why he ran away and got trapped in the iceberg, that's why he had so much difficulty unlocking his chakras and the avatar state, that's why he had to come up with his own way of getting past the seemingly impassible barrier of achieving peace without killing the firelord. In the first situation he reacts by running away, in the second he tries to work through it but fails, in his final test he transcends the expectations of him and relies on his own strength, his connection to the spirit world, to overcome the situation.
They pretty much give all of this to you when Aang is learning to earthbend - it's not at all in his personality to confront directly. "Maybe there's another way... what if I came at the boulder from another angle?"
See I agree with this. I think this whole learning energy bending idea works great for Aang's story but I think he should have had to seek it out. I don't think the Lion Turtle should have come to Aang and apparently mind-controlled him into getting on the his back.
And I don't like that the Lion Turtle's motivations are completely speculative which would not be an issue if it had been Aang that sought him out.
I don't really have a problem with the Lion Turtle being unexplained when it's an inherently mystical and mythological being. If they explained everything about "the spirit world" it would just be "the regular world".
I could see why you think the Lion Turtle thing came out of nowhere if you think that Azula wasn't well on her way to a breakdown because of her outright sociopathic tendencies.
I'd ask you why you think the Lion Turtle and Energy Bending didn't come out of nowhere but you'd talk about the Lion Turtle being in the background/ Spirits helped the Avatar before and that misses the point of the criticism.
And really whats the point?
it misses the point of the criticism that the actual creature had plenty of foreshadowing and so did its methods?
let me explain something to you
there are things
in the universe
called patterns
What are the examples of "help from the spirits" that had similiar levels of foreshadowing in the series within the context of the story being told?
Because Aang's pacifism and refusal to kill dated back to the start of the series, so the issue with fighting Ozai dated that far back. In roughly 60 episodes, it took until episode 59 or 60 for spiritbending to be mentioned.
These are the episodes in which Aang direct guidance from the spirit world. Not even just talking to Roku, I mean he actually entered the spirit world during a time of emotional crisis or an emissary from the spirit world or spiritual master showed up to give him guidance.
"The Spirit World (Winter Solstice, Part 1)
"Avatar Roku (Winter Solstice, Part 2)"
"The Siege of the North, Part 1"
"The Siege of the North, Part 2"
"The Avatar State"
"The Swamp"
"The Library"
"The Guru"
"The Awakening"
"The Avatar and the Firelord"
"Sozin's Comet, Part 1: The Phoenix King"
"Sozin's Comet, Part 2: The Old Masters"
"Sozin's Comet, Part 3: Into the Inferno"
"Sozin's Comet, Part 4: Avatar Aang"
Those episodes, excluding the final four, are the foreshadowing for the final example. That's the whole point.
And of course no one mentioned energybending before because no one's done it since before the avatar even existed. That's the nature of the thing.
None of those episodes introduced a problem in the first minute that was resolved by a force that was not mentioned or unexplained until the last minute.
actually nearly every single one of them did
0
Options
BugBoyboy.EXE has stopped functioning.only bugs remainRegistered Userregular
korra should be able to energybend in the avatar state, right?
I could see why you think the Lion Turtle thing came out of nowhere if you think that Azula wasn't well on her way to a breakdown because of her outright sociopathic tendencies.
I'd ask you why you think the Lion Turtle and Energy Bending didn't come out of nowhere but you'd talk about the Lion Turtle being in the background/ Spirits helped the Avatar before and that misses the point of the criticism.
And really whats the point?
I'd say it fits right in thematically because Aang's entire story is about reconciling his own nature with that of the avatar, and he has always had to find his own path to the avatar state that fits within his ethos.
That's why he ran away and got trapped in the iceberg, that's why he had so much difficulty unlocking his chakras and the avatar state, that's why he had to come up with his own way of getting past the seemingly impassible barrier of achieving peace without killing the firelord. In the first situation he reacts by running away, in the second he tries to work through it but fails, in his final test he transcends the expectations of him and relies on his own strength, his connection to the spirit world, to overcome the situation.
They pretty much give all of this to you when Aang is learning to earthbend - it's not at all in his personality to confront directly. "Maybe there's another way... what if I came at the boulder from another angle?"
See I agree with this. I think this whole learning energy bending idea works great for Aang's story but I think he should have had to seek it out. I don't think the Lion Turtle should have come to Aang and apparently mind-controlled him into getting on the his back.
And I don't like that the Lion Turtle's motivations are completely speculative which would not be an issue if it had been Aang that sought him out.
I don't really have a problem with the Lion Turtle being unexplained when it's an inherently mystical and mythological being. If they explained everything about "the spirit world" it would just be "the regular world".
But he's just a animal that can bend. Like the Bison or dragons but much, much older and his actions are strange.
I could see why you think the Lion Turtle thing came out of nowhere if you think that Azula wasn't well on her way to a breakdown because of her outright sociopathic tendencies.
I'd ask you why you think the Lion Turtle and Energy Bending didn't come out of nowhere but you'd talk about the Lion Turtle being in the background/ Spirits helped the Avatar before and that misses the point of the criticism.
And really whats the point?
it misses the point of the criticism that the actual creature had plenty of foreshadowing and so did its methods?
let me explain something to you
there are things
in the universe
called patterns
I'd disagree. The audience has to pick up on your pattern because you actually bothered to communicate to them. Picking up an arbitrary and incidental plot detail doesn't really do that. They needed to spend more air-time away from silly hijinks introducing this Spirit World crap.
Arguably that's not the fault of the crew, since they probably would've devoted an episode to doing just that if they had the budget/time.
wait what
aang goes to the spirit world like six or seven times
sokka even says, outright, "Aang disappears on the eve of a major battle? It's gotta be a trip to the spirit world!"
Yeah, but I thought the treatment of the Spirit World is pretty facile. The fact that people used to bend the principle stuff of the Spirit Wold at the dawn of history is a pretty goddamn important cosmological point.
If we had been told about the history and been given some perspective on how their world is supposed to work, then it becomes a lot easier to swallow that a reincarnated demi-god could do this kind of thing.
why on earth would people living thousands of years later have any memory of it
the reason the lion-turtle remembers is because he was there
the lion-turtle is mysterious because he is a giant immortal fucking god-beast lion-turtle spirit-creature from before the dawn of humanity
his methods are not easy to parse
Oh come on. Most of the screentime in the Spirit World was spent in plot exposition and they didn't spend any of it having Roku explain to Aang about this Really Cool Thing You Can Do.
Really?
And that's just if you're being lazy. We could've had Aang on some hallucinatory vision quest type of thing to make it all dramatic and to mark his passage into a more fully-realized Avatar. It could like represent his growth into adulthood and his responsibilities. You know, that "coming-of-age" thing.
korra should be able to energybend in the avatar state, right?
I wonder if that'll come up
Well aang had to either be shown how to energy bend, or be energy bent upon (depending on what you think the turtle thing did) before he could do it himself
So no I would assume korra should not be able to energy bend when she finally figures out the avatar state
Kwoaru on
0
Options
BugBoyboy.EXE has stopped functioning.only bugs remainRegistered Userregular
I could see why you think the Lion Turtle thing came out of nowhere if you think that Azula wasn't well on her way to a breakdown because of her outright sociopathic tendencies.
I'd ask you why you think the Lion Turtle and Energy Bending didn't come out of nowhere but you'd talk about the Lion Turtle being in the background/ Spirits helped the Avatar before and that misses the point of the criticism.
And really whats the point?
it misses the point of the criticism that the actual creature had plenty of foreshadowing and so did its methods?
let me explain something to you
there are things
in the universe
called patterns
I'd disagree. The audience has to pick up on your pattern because you actually bothered to communicate to them. Picking up an arbitrary and incidental plot detail doesn't really do that. They needed to spend more air-time away from silly hijinks introducing this Spirit World crap.
Arguably that's not the fault of the crew, since they probably would've devoted an episode to doing just that if they had the budget/time.
wait what
aang goes to the spirit world like six or seven times
sokka even says, outright, "Aang disappears on the eve of a major battle? It's gotta be a trip to the spirit world!"
Yeah, but I thought the treatment of the Spirit World is pretty facile. The fact that people used to bend the principle stuff of the Spirit Wold at the dawn of history is a pretty goddamn important cosmological point.
If we had been told about the history and been given some perspective on how their world is supposed to work, then it becomes a lot easier to swallow that a reincarnated demi-god could do this kind of thing.
why on earth would people living thousands of years later have any memory of it
the reason the lion-turtle remembers is because he was there
the lion-turtle is mysterious because he is a giant immortal fucking god-beast lion-turtle spirit-creature from before the dawn of humanity
his methods are not easy to parse
Oh come on. Most of the screentime in the Spirit World was spent in plot exposition and they didn't spend any of it having Roku explain to Aang about this Really Cool Thing You Can Do.
Really?
And that's just if you're being lazy. We could've had Aang on some hallucinatory vision quest type of thing to make it all dramatic and to mark his passage into a more fully-realized Avatar. It could like represent his growth into adulthood and his responsibilities. You know, that "coming-of-age" thing.
roku doesn't even know what the lion-turtle is, why would he know what spiritbending is
also the "growth into adulthood and his responsibilities" was ground covered by the entire rest of the series
korra should be able to energybend in the avatar state, right?
I wonder if that'll come up
I'm wondering if Amon will try to get her to go Avatar state so they can end the cycle for good.
I mean there are obvious problems with that plan namely:
Does Amon even know that fact?
How do you kill the avatar in avatar state, they are pretty powerful
But it seems like a thing that was mentioned a lot in Book 2 that never really came up again.
0
Options
KwoaruConfident SmirkFlawless Golden PecsRegistered Userregular
korra should be able to energybend in the avatar state, right?
I wonder if that'll come up
I'm wondering if Amon will try to get her to go Avatar state so they can end the cycle for good.
I mean there are obvious problems with that plan namely:
Does Amon even know that fact?
How do you kill the avatar in avatar state, they are pretty powerful
But it seems like a thing that was mentioned a lot in Book 2 that never really came up again.
The same way you kill somebody who isn't in the avatar state, it's just way harder
They still have all their fleshy human weaknesses
0
Options
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
I looked at all the ones except the solstice (I honestly don't remember that one very well) and none of them do as you say.
Aang wants to learn about the avatar state and master it. He happens across a spirit guru who offers to help him. Problem and guide in the first few minutes of the show. At the end he sees a vision of Katara in danger. This makes sense in the context of the advice the spirit guide had been giving him since the start of the episode. Nothing comes at the last moment that is out of place.
Aang and his group gets seperated in the swamp. They see visions while in the swamp. Clearly this is not an ordinary swamp. As they get to the end, surprise! The reason for the mysterious vision in the obviously not ordinary swamp was because of a connection to the spirit world.
In the episode prior Aang had entered the avatar state, but had no control. He had entered it during a moment of extreme emotional turmoil. In the following episode an Earth Kingdom general tries to get him to enter the avatar state, but fails until he is forced into extreme emotional turmoil when Katara is threatened. I...don't see how this at all relates to your point. Maybe Roku said something to him at the end? And if that's the reason why you included this episode...I severely underestimated the amount of thought you put into this argument.
I could go on, but it is laughable how condescending you have been to Nightmarenny about this point while backing your own point with basically nothing.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
korra should be able to energybend in the avatar state, right?
I wonder if that'll come up
I'm wondering if Amon will try to get her to go Avatar state so they can end the cycle for good.
I mean there are obvious problems with that plan namely:
Does Amon even know that fact?
How do you kill the avatar in avatar state, they are pretty powerful
But it seems like a thing that was mentioned a lot in Book 2 that never really came up again.
The same way you kill somebody who isn't in the avatar state, it's just way harder
They still have all their fleshy human weaknesses
The teaser implies that he's just going to try to remove her powers anyway. It seems reasonable that no Bending means no Avatar state.
I have the feeling it won't be that easy because it'll turn out that the Avatar's immortal spirit is just made of sterner stuff. You can bend a paperclip. You don't bend a steel girder. Or calm a raging tempest. Or whatever hackneyed metaphor you want to use.
Twenty Sided on
0
Options
Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
korra should be able to energybend in the avatar state, right?
I wonder if that'll come up
I'm wondering if Amon will try to get her to go Avatar state so they can end the cycle for good.
I mean there are obvious problems with that plan namely:
Does Amon even know that fact?
How do you kill the avatar in avatar state, they are pretty powerful
But it seems like a thing that was mentioned a lot in Book 2 that never really came up again.
The same way you kill somebody who isn't in the avatar state, it's just way harder
They still have all their fleshy human weaknesses
The teaser implies that he's just going to try to remove her powers anyway. It seems reasonable that no Bending means no Avatar state.
I have the feeling it won't be that easy because it'll turn out that the Avatar's immortal spirit is just made of sterner stuff.
I saw a preview where it indicated if she got debended in the avatar state, then no more avatar ever. Just like dying in the avatar state.
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
0
Options
KwoaruConfident SmirkFlawless Golden PecsRegistered Userregular
korra should be able to energybend in the avatar state, right?
I wonder if that'll come up
I'm wondering if Amon will try to get her to go Avatar state so they can end the cycle for good.
I mean there are obvious problems with that plan namely:
Does Amon even know that fact?
How do you kill the avatar in avatar state, they are pretty powerful
But it seems like a thing that was mentioned a lot in Book 2 that never really came up again.
The same way you kill somebody who isn't in the avatar state, it's just way harder
They still have all their fleshy human weaknesses
The teaser implies that he's just going to try to remove her powers anyway. It seems reasonable that no Bending means no Avatar state.
I have the feeling it won't be that easy because it'll turn out that the Avatar has something of a divine appointment to their post and their spirits are just of sterner stuff than average.
Well I think it will come down to
whether or not he's actually sealing it with energy bending or if he's doing some super advanced chi-blocker stuff using the Amon chakra or whatever it was dapper posted forever ago
And of course whether or not he gets his hands on korra
tenzin gyatso, the 14th dalai lama, is a reasonable and progressive dude
Yeah wasn't there a big thing relatively recently about him making the position of Dalai Lama no longer the highest/sole authority in tibet?
I just didn't want to engage twenty sided because he is a super goose
Only because the Chinese occupation ousted him and won't let him back in, so this is the only real way to win support for his cause while attempting to maintain some kind of religious orthodoxy.
The Catholic Church also said they were super sorry about the thing with Galileo. It didn't stop them from diddling choir boys though.
Yes, because in the 2,000 years of the Catholic Church that's all they've accomplished. *I am eye rolling so hard right now*
If you're looking to see how flexible a religion institution can be, even a monastic order, it really changes based on location and leadership. Some Buddist Monks were very chill and meditated a lot on inner peace, others were sword chewing badass who killed men by the dozens. Some European Monks made nice books and bibles, others became warrior pirate doctors.
Wow, I'm glad all your opinions of the Mystic Religions of the Orient are informed by romantic stereotypes.
We'll ignore that Buddhism was originally about complete self-annihilation in the afterlife because life sucks and suffering is inevitable and you're going to get reincarnated into it over-and-over.
Talk about being way off point. I was illustrating the vast degree of varience between different religious orders seperated by space and time. There are HUGE differences in various sects even within the same religions. I have no idea what sort of stereotypes you're going on about. In the extreme examples, I was referring specifically to the Ikko-Ikki and the Knights Hospitallers. Because, you know, this show has a lot of warriors/monkish types.
Posts
I just want people to stop calling me stupid for not liking a plot twist in a fucking tv show.
I'd say it fits right in thematically because Aang's entire story is about reconciling his own nature with that of the avatar, and he has always had to find his own path to the avatar state that fits within his ethos.
That's why he ran away and got trapped in the iceberg, that's why he had so much difficulty unlocking his chakras and the avatar state, that's why he had to come up with his own way of getting past the seemingly impassible barrier of achieving peace without killing the firelord. In the first situation he reacts by running away, in the second he tries to work through it but fails, in his final test he transcends the expectations of him and relies on his own strength, his connection to the spirit world, to overcome the situation.
They pretty much give all of this to you when Aang is learning to earthbend - it's not at all in his personality to confront directly. "Maybe there's another way... what if I came at the boulder from another angle?"
edit: this time travel post stuff is getting stupid. I know Rolo's post wasn't before mine because I reloaded twice before I saw it.
Stop seeing the world as flat. Fixes that right quick.
Firebenders put a lot of stock in personal merit. To the point that they went out of their way to kill dragons to prove that they have the biggest Firebending dick around to wave in people's faces. Their ritual contests take the form of dueling with fire to resolve matters of personal honor. Azula was praised in her youth for her excellent progress in her Firebending education and Zuko was treated with contempt and disgust for his awkward and fumbling attempts.
And people in Ozai's regime probably admired a warrior ethos.
Accomplished Firebending = Strong Martial Leadership.
Firebending makes Ozai a figurehead and adds to his royal stature. Remember, Azula believes in a literal Divine Mandate to rule. This means that personal merit can be taken as a proof of Royalty. (Both Azula and Zuko have used spat the word "peasant" as an insult, which is entirely a result of this Divine Mandate mentality.)
On a more pragmatic consideration, Ozai is a much more dangerous prisoner if he has access to his Firebending. It takes less of a security failure than it would with a non-Bender for him become a threat, particularly since he's a highly educated and seasoned fighter.
maybe bendland is akavir
really though they're just over the horizon from one another
the single greatest prank the air nomads ever pulled
the fire nation would have taken ba sing se five years into the hundred years war if they had just sailed west
See I agree with this. I think this whole learning energy bending idea works great for Aang's story but I think he should have had to seek it out. I don't think the Lion Turtle should have come to Aang and apparently mind-controlled him into getting on the his back.
And I don't like that the Lion Turtle's motivations are completely speculative which would not be an issue if it had been Aang that sought him out.
i can see why some people aren't happy with the Lion Turtle showing up to provide easy resolution to Aang's whole pacifism colliding with his goal to stop Ozai thing
buuut, i loved the Lion Turtle. his very existence really gave a taste of how epic the mythos is outside of the avatar.
These are the episodes in which Aang direct guidance from the spirit world. Not even just talking to Roku, I mean he actually entered the spirit world during a time of emotional crisis or an emissary from the spirit world or spiritual master showed up to give him guidance.
"The Spirit World (Winter Solstice, Part 1)
"Avatar Roku (Winter Solstice, Part 2)"
"The Siege of the North, Part 1"
"The Siege of the North, Part 2"
"The Avatar State"
"The Swamp"
"The Library"
"The Guru"
"The Awakening"
"The Avatar and the Firelord"
"Sozin's Comet, Part 1: The Phoenix King"
"Sozin's Comet, Part 2: The Old Masters"
"Sozin's Comet, Part 3: Into the Inferno"
"Sozin's Comet, Part 4: Avatar Aang"
Those episodes, excluding the final four, are the foreshadowing for the final example. That's the whole point.
And of course no one mentioned energybending before because no one's done it since before the avatar even existed. That's the nature of the thing.
well if you put it on a globe, then both air temples are basically right next to each other
I say there is just a shit ton of ocean
Yeah, but I thought the treatment of the Spirit World is pretty facile. The fact that people used to bend the principle stuff of the Spirit Wold at the dawn of history is a pretty goddamn important cosmological point.
If we had been told about the history and been given some perspective on how their world is supposed to work, then it becomes a lot easier to swallow that a reincarnated demi-god could do this kind of thing.
We'd be, "Okay, this Avatar has been given all the powers he needs to solve all imbalances forever. Makes sense."
None of those episodes introduced a problem in the first minute that was resolved by a force that was not mentioned or unexplained until the last minute.
why on earth would people living thousands of years later have any memory of it
the reason the lion-turtle remembers is because he was there
the lion-turtle is mysterious because he is a giant immortal fucking god-beast lion-turtle spirit-creature from before the dawn of humanity
his methods are not easy to parse
I don't really have a problem with the Lion Turtle being unexplained when it's an inherently mystical and mythological being. If they explained everything about "the spirit world" it would just be "the regular world".
actually nearly every single one of them did
I wonder if that'll come up
But he's just a animal that can bend. Like the Bison or dragons but much, much older and his actions are strange.
Oh come on. Most of the screentime in the Spirit World was spent in plot exposition and they didn't spend any of it having Roku explain to Aang about this Really Cool Thing You Can Do.
Really?
And that's just if you're being lazy. We could've had Aang on some hallucinatory vision quest type of thing to make it all dramatic and to mark his passage into a more fully-realized Avatar. It could like represent his growth into adulthood and his responsibilities. You know, that "coming-of-age" thing.
Well aang had to either be shown how to energy bend, or be energy bent upon (depending on what you think the turtle thing did) before he could do it himself
So no I would assume korra should not be able to energy bend when she finally figures out the avatar state
I thought that an avatar could use all of her predecessors' abilities in the state
I was just on the wiki the other day
probably missing something
It is about philosophy and pretty alright
No that's right.
She should be able to energy bend.
you might be right, I dunno
roku doesn't even know what the lion-turtle is, why would he know what spiritbending is
also the "growth into adulthood and his responsibilities" was ground covered by the entire rest of the series
the energy empire
I'm wondering if Amon will try to get her to go Avatar state so they can end the cycle for good.
I mean there are obvious problems with that plan namely:
Does Amon even know that fact?
How do you kill the avatar in avatar state, they are pretty powerful
But it seems like a thing that was mentioned a lot in Book 2 that never really came up again.
The same way you kill somebody who isn't in the avatar state, it's just way harder
They still have all their fleshy human weaknesses
Aang wants to learn about the avatar state and master it. He happens across a spirit guru who offers to help him. Problem and guide in the first few minutes of the show. At the end he sees a vision of Katara in danger. This makes sense in the context of the advice the spirit guide had been giving him since the start of the episode. Nothing comes at the last moment that is out of place.
Aang and his group gets seperated in the swamp. They see visions while in the swamp. Clearly this is not an ordinary swamp. As they get to the end, surprise! The reason for the mysterious vision in the obviously not ordinary swamp was because of a connection to the spirit world.
In the episode prior Aang had entered the avatar state, but had no control. He had entered it during a moment of extreme emotional turmoil. In the following episode an Earth Kingdom general tries to get him to enter the avatar state, but fails until he is forced into extreme emotional turmoil when Katara is threatened. I...don't see how this at all relates to your point. Maybe Roku said something to him at the end? And if that's the reason why you included this episode...I severely underestimated the amount of thought you put into this argument.
I could go on, but it is laughable how condescending you have been to Nightmarenny about this point while backing your own point with basically nothing.
The teaser implies that he's just going to try to remove her powers anyway. It seems reasonable that no Bending means no Avatar state.
I have the feeling it won't be that easy because it'll turn out that the Avatar's immortal spirit is just made of sterner stuff. You can bend a paperclip. You don't bend a steel girder. Or calm a raging tempest. Or whatever hackneyed metaphor you want to use.
I saw a preview where it indicated if she got debended in the avatar state, then no more avatar ever. Just like dying in the avatar state.
Well I think it will come down to
And of course whether or not he gets his hands on korra
Talk about being way off point. I was illustrating the vast degree of varience between different religious orders seperated by space and time. There are HUGE differences in various sects even within the same religions. I have no idea what sort of stereotypes you're going on about. In the extreme examples, I was referring specifically to the Ikko-Ikki and the Knights Hospitallers. Because, you know, this show has a lot of warriors/monkish types.
it's hard
I know you have trouble admitting when you're wrong