I have too but I've also heard that 3 and Final are still leagues better.
This just in: Game sequels continue to improve on series even after the second game in a series?
I imagine he licensed 2 because it was probably dirt cheap, and if he was going to license 3 and final, wouldn't that entail licensing both the PSP and the PS3 versions? Or did 2 have a PS3 version as well. Or perhaps he wants to release both games.
I was going to suggest Unchained ReXX as another dungeon crawler they could work on, but apparently XSeed is bringing it out as "Unchained Blades," so...
I have too but I've also heard that 3 and Final are still leagues better.
This just in: Game sequels continue to improve on series even after the second game in a series?
And? Did you have a point or were you just being snarky for nothing? And DEFINITELY not all sequals improve.
I imagine he licensed 2 because it was probably dirt cheap, and if he was going to license 3 and final, wouldn't that entail licensing both the PSP and the PS3 versions? Or did 2 have a PS3 version as well. Or perhaps he wants to release both games.
Yes, 2 had a PS3 version and yes he already said he's releasing both versions.
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cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
No, he didn't say he was releasing both versions. The PS3 version is under consideration, but has not been approved by SCEA.
No, he didn't say he was releasing both versions. The PS3 version is under consideration, but has not been approved by SCEA.
Class of Heroes 2, the sequel to an Atlus-published PSP dungeon crawler (that received rather mediocre reviews), never made it to the U.S. when it was first released back in 2009. Whether or not this Kickstarter is successful, MonkeyPaw says it still plans to release digital versions of Class of Heroes 2 for PSP and its companion, Class of Heroes 2G, for PlayStation 3.
Remember that Sony fucked him over so bad that it killed Working Designs (refusing to approve anything they wanted to bring over, since "Americans don't like RPGs" and "Sprite based games don't look good." I wouldn't count it as being officially approved before getting a copy in my hands.
Remember that Sony fucked him over so bad that it killed Working Designs (refusing to approve anything they wanted to bring over, since "Americans don't like RPGs" and "Sprite based games don't look good." I wouldn't count it as being officially approved before getting a copy in my hands.
If this Kickstarter is any indication of the pitches he made at Sony, I would have turned his crap down too.
'We want to bring out this game here. It's pretty cool. You know, has sprites and stuff. We'll also make a cool box. With stuff.'
I was looking at the Kickstarter page for Yogventures, which has just met its goal with time to spare. Comparing the figures between that and this one just emphasise how odd the Class of Heroes kickstarter is. Yogventures (which was able to draw on the huge pre-existing audience of the Yogscast) got about 5000 people to pay them $250,000 to create a new, fairly ambitious game (albeit one based around user-generated content). Gaijinworks and Money Paw (fairly unknown companies localising the sequel to an unpopular game) want 7000 people to pay them $500,000 to enhance the localisation project of a game that already exists and will receive a basic localisation anyway. Or are the 7000 people paying to get an expensive box of tat?
Remember that Sony fucked him over so bad that it killed Working Designs (refusing to approve anything they wanted to bring over, since "Americans don't like RPGs" and "Sprite based games don't look good." I wouldn't count it as being officially approved before getting a copy in my hands.
What killed Working Designs, or one of the big things had absolutely nothing to do with RPGs or sprite based games. He was obsessed with bringing over a 3D PS2 Goemon game. It looked terrible, had bad reviews, but apparently Vic kept working on it and pushing it and Sony kept turning it down. That was the final game they were working on, and it's what eventually killed them. It also didn't help though that Sony wouldn't let them release the two PS2 Growlancer games individually, and instead pushed them into releasing it as a two pack of games.
I was looking at the Kickstarter page for Yogventures, which has just met its goal with time to spare. Comparing the figures between that and this one just emphasise how odd the Class of Heroes kickstarter is. Yogventures (which was able to draw on the huge pre-existing audience of the Yogscast) got about 5000 people to pay them $250,000 to create a new, fairly ambitious game (albeit one based around user-generated content). Gaijinworks and Money Paw (fairly unknown companies localising the sequel to an unpopular game) want 7000 people to pay them $500,000 to enhance the localisation project of a game that already exists and will receive a basic localisation anyway. Or are the 7000 people paying to get an expensive box of tat?
Working Designs, and by extension Victor Ireland were specifically known for their "expensive boxes of tat". So yes, the kickstarter was mostly an attempt to give the audience he still thought he had, the package of swag he thought they wanted. If it were a game people gave a rat's ass about (on a system that wasn't dead), he likely would have been correct in that assumption. He just got into the platform about a year too late, and put too much weight/ego behind his own name.
That cloth map sounds really cool. He could do this sort of Kickstarter again with a different game, or different medium, or a different something, and it would probably succeed. They just made pretty much every mistake possible this time around.
No, he didn't say he was releasing both versions. The PS3 version is under consideration, but has not been approved by SCEA.
Well he did say he was gonna release both versions at the start, but when the ks started doing bad he lied about it to guilt more sales out of his battered wife syndrome fanbase.
It's honestly kind of sickening the shit ireland has pulled. It's gross malfeasance and puerile manipulation culminating into repeated bouts of lying and mistreatment of his fans. seriously, the stuff he hasn't lied about he's used as base manipulation, shit slinging, and abuse.
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cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
Say what you will about Ireland, he still generally has good taste in games. Despite the KS' absolute failure, I'll still get CoH2, one way or another.
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RentI'm always rightFuckin' deal with itRegistered Userregular
Say what you will about Ireland, he still generally has good taste in games.
that doesn't really make up for lying to and horrifically mistreating your fans, all the while acting like your god's greatest gift to video gaming
also saying in the same month- month- that Xenoblade Chronicles is released that 'JRPGs are dead' is self-deluded to the point of near insanity. His tone and attitude that he and he alone is the only one fighting to help the poor, oppressed JRPG finally find its limelight and that anyone who doesn't support him is a traitor to the 'cause' is both incredibly stupid (because there is no fucking 'cause', that's dumb, stop ascribing false importance to video games) while simultaneously being incredibly insulting to me, a JRPG fan. so you're saying that if i don't support your game (which you've lied about, and continue to lie about) that i'm not a real fan? go fuck yourself, ireland.
Trying to make a cause out of your kickstarter is a good idea. It's just that this one bungled it so badly. Why should I believe that you can bring over the JRPGs I really want when this is the best you could come up with?
Also, Xenoblade isn't much of a counter-argument to the "JRPGs are dead" idea. Xenoblade is an odd one - it's like it's part JRPG, part Western RPG, and part MMORPG. It's a great game, don't get me wrong, but it does little to satiate my desire for good JRPGs in English.
So is Ireland still refusing to consider doing PC ports?
In one of the podcasts he did recently, he said that he's not completely adverse to PC games but that he's choosing to focus on consoles & portables at the moment because that's where he has experience.
Trying to make a cause out of your kickstarter is a good idea.
i...guess so, but his tone and general douchiness about everything that has to do with CoH 2 and his general ignorance on the industry whilst professing himself to be a subject matter expert is the enraging thing
like i guess i'd be okay with the "this isn't just a video game, it's a movement!" sort of thing if he didn't make it sound like you're a traitorous cunt if you didn't put money in gaijinworks' coffers
finally, and this cannot be stressed enough: ireland is a fucking liar. he lied all the time, about everything having to do with the ks. the few things he didn't lie about he used to extort money from his dwindling fans. he's a p huge douche all around
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cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
There also aren't a whole lot of JRPGs on the PC to consider. Shmups, that's another story.
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RentI'm always rightFuckin' deal with itRegistered Userregular
Falcom is pretty much the PC JRPG maker, but their stuff gets translated with a lot more regularity than it used to these days. They've also gravitated towards consoles recently, especially handhelds, AKA the PSP.
Falcom is pretty much the PC JRPG maker, but their stuff gets translated with a lot more regularity than it used to these days. They've also gravitated towards consoles recently, especially handhelds, AKA the PSP.
They've in fact sworn off PC development in the past three years. PSP and probably Vita will be their home for awhile.
If the XSEED translations go well though on Steam they have a thirty plus game back catalog from the late 90's and 2000's of very well done pc versions/ports/remakes.
RentI'm always rightFuckin' deal with itRegistered Userregular
so the coh2 kickstarter failed miserably, not even hitting 100k
to be quite honest, i'm p happy about this. maybe ireland will realize how much he fucked up literally every single part of this project from planning to execution, then poisoned the well further by lying and manipulating. probably not, though
so the coh2 kickstarter failed miserably, not even hitting 100k
to be quite honest, i'm p happy about this. maybe ireland will realize how much he fucked up literally every single part of this project from planning to execution, then poisoned the well further by lying and manipulating. probably not, though
I doubt he'll really learn anything from this. He might say he did, but he'll make the same exact mistakes the next time. What happened between Arc the Lad Collection and Growlanser Generations pretty much killed any faith I had in the man being able to learn from his mistakes.
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cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
MaddocI'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother?Registered Userregular
Yeah, I hope they have really realistic expectations as to how well this release is going to do.
But considering they decided inexplicably to localize 2 instead of 3, and seem to be under the impression that they're going to release 2, 2's PS3 port, and then also 3 and probably 3's PS3 port, I'd say realistic expectations and Vic Ireland have never been in the same hemisphere.
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RentI'm always rightFuckin' deal with itRegistered Userregular
they're apparently not going to release 2's PS3 port, since Ireland being the liar that he is decided to change his opinion on whether or not the kickstarter will influence the release of the PS3 port decided instead to hold it hostage and because the kickstarter failed no ps3 port. because, again, he's a liar and a cheat
Yeah, I don't really see this game making much more than $200k gross on the PSP/Vita - say 10,000 copies at $20. If they price it at $30-$40, I think they'll be lucky to sell even 2,000 copies. There just isn't really any demand for this game and what demand there is for the dungeon hack subgenre is being well served with Etrian Odyssey, Legend of Grimrock, and Wizardry. If they bring out the PS3 version as well, that will help, but at best that might bring it up to $400k-$500k gross (and again, that's assuming they price it at $20 or under - it'll bomb completely at a higher price).
Yeah, I don't really see this game making much more than $200k gross on the PSP/Vita - say 10,000 copies at $20. If they price it at $30-$40, I think they'll be lucky to sell even 2,000 copies. There just isn't really any demand for this game and what demand there is for the dungeon hack subgenre is being well served with Etrian Odyssey, Legend of Grimrock, and Wizardry. If they bring out the PS3 version as well, that will help, but at best that might bring it up to $400k-$500k gross (and again, that's assuming they price it at $20 or under - it'll bomb completely at a higher price).
Grimrock and Wizardry yes, but I'd have to argue Etrian Odyssey to a much more limited extent, purely because of the fact that it suffers from "Limited Atlus Print Syndrome" and thus most copies of the game without the box an manual still resell for just shy of the original retail price. And since Nintendo has their head up their asses with the eShop, there's no other alternative to getting the game like the PSN.
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MaddocI'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother?Registered Userregular
It's kind of funny in a depressing way
Because despite my overall negativity toward this project, I actually want these games. I am one of the exceedingly few people looking forward to its release.
Which actually makes it worse in my eyes, because of how badly it has been mishandled.
Yeah, I don't really see this game making much more than $200k gross on the PSP/Vita - say 10,000 copies at $20. If they price it at $30-$40, I think they'll be lucky to sell even 2,000 copies. There just isn't really any demand for this game and what demand there is for the dungeon hack subgenre is being well served with Etrian Odyssey, Legend of Grimrock, and Wizardry. If they bring out the PS3 version as well, that will help, but at best that might bring it up to $400k-$500k gross (and again, that's assuming they price it at $20 or under - it'll bomb completely at a higher price).
Grimrock and Wizardry yes, but I'd have to argue Etrian Odyssey to a much more limited extent, purely because of the fact that it suffers from "Limited Atlus Print Syndrome" and thus most copies of the game without the box an manual still resell for just shy of the original retail price. And since Nintendo has their head up their asses with the eShop, there's no other alternative to getting the game like the PSN.
They're not THAT rare. From Amazon and Gamestop, it looks like you can pick up copies of most Etrian Odyssey games for around $20.
Also, there's Strange Journey, which I had forgotten about since it's not as good as the Etrian Odyssey series.
Anyway, the point was that there have been a fair number of solid dungeon crawlers in the past couple years. There's also Unchained Blades that XSeed Games will be releasing soon. If anything the genre is oversaturated. A sequel to an unpopular game that got bad review scores is going to find success very difficult to achieve.
Yeah, I don't really see this game making much more than $200k gross on the PSP/Vita - say 10,000 copies at $20. If they price it at $30-$40, I think they'll be lucky to sell even 2,000 copies. There just isn't really any demand for this game and what demand there is for the dungeon hack subgenre is being well served with Etrian Odyssey, Legend of Grimrock, and Wizardry. If they bring out the PS3 version as well, that will help, but at best that might bring it up to $400k-$500k gross (and again, that's assuming they price it at $20 or under - it'll bomb completely at a higher price).
Grimrock and Wizardry yes, but I'd have to argue Etrian Odyssey to a much more limited extent, purely because of the fact that it suffers from "Limited Atlus Print Syndrome" and thus most copies of the game without the box an manual still resell for just shy of the original retail price. And since Nintendo has their head up their asses with the eShop, there's no other alternative to getting the game like the PSN.
They're not THAT rare. From Amazon and Gamestop, it looks like you can pick up copies of most Etrian Odyssey games for around $20.
Also, there's Strange Journey, which I had forgotten about since it's not as good as the Etrian Odyssey series.
Anyway, the point was that there have been a fair number of solid dungeon crawlers in the past couple years. There's also Unchained Blades that XSeed Games will be releasing soon. If anything the genre is oversaturated. A sequel to an unpopular game that got bad review scores is going to find success very difficult to achieve.
I purposely looked at Amazon before I even posted. There's one copy of EO2 up there for $21 plus $4 shipping, sure, though cart only. That's the only and lowest example of the game that I found there, the rest are $25 minimum, going up from there, with $4+ shipping - varying dependent on whatever they want to charge, or whether they support prime(usually the ones that do sneakily factor the shipping into the base price). EO1 skyrockets to $50 as soon as the box/manual becomes involved, while EO2/3 get into the mid-upper 30s at the lowest, not counting shipping.
And the problem with Gamestop is that unlike Amazon retailers, gamestop.com makes absolutely no guarantees as to the condition of what you're going to get, outside of that it plays. Sometimes barely even that - I've gotten some seriously messed up ps2 games from Gamestop.com before, and I now flatly refuse to order from their storefront now unless it's a brand new game. (Also, incidentally, gamestop doesn't even have any of the trilogy for sale online at all regardless. Note that anywhere it says "More Info" instead of add to cart actually means "out of stock", and you're limited to searching physical stores in the area - again, no guarantee of condition where available.)
Now, cartridge vs. box/manual purism aside, $30 online is not a particularly ideal price to have to pay for a used standalone cartridge from 5 years ago(EO1). And the biggest problem is that there's no alternative to it like with the PSN.
But in any case yes, I'm not disagreeing with your main point. Besides that example, there are certainly plenty of recent additions to the genre that garner much higher ratings than CoH did, and there isn't any particular reason to fund a sequel to a mediocre game even if he did execute the Kickstarter....well, properly.
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cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
All these games listed are also ds or pc only. I know its odd, but some people actually only own one handheld. Also not everyone is a PC gamer. On top of that, grimrock.is a pretty big turn off to a subset of people who want a normal dungeon crawl. That real time thing sucks.
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I am too. Quoting as well. I disabled adblock and it fixed it.
This just in: Game sequels continue to improve on series even after the second game in a series?
I imagine he licensed 2 because it was probably dirt cheap, and if he was going to license 3 and final, wouldn't that entail licensing both the PSP and the PS3 versions? Or did 2 have a PS3 version as well. Or perhaps he wants to release both games.
I was going to suggest Unchained ReXX as another dungeon crawler they could work on, but apparently XSeed is bringing it out as "Unchained Blades," so...
And? Did you have a point or were you just being snarky for nothing? And DEFINITELY not all sequals improve.
Yes, 2 had a PS3 version and yes he already said he's releasing both versions.
He WAS planning it anyway.
If this Kickstarter is any indication of the pitches he made at Sony, I would have turned his crap down too.
'We want to bring out this game here. It's pretty cool. You know, has sprites and stuff. We'll also make a cool box. With stuff.'
What killed Working Designs, or one of the big things had absolutely nothing to do with RPGs or sprite based games. He was obsessed with bringing over a 3D PS2 Goemon game. It looked terrible, had bad reviews, but apparently Vic kept working on it and pushing it and Sony kept turning it down. That was the final game they were working on, and it's what eventually killed them. It also didn't help though that Sony wouldn't let them release the two PS2 Growlancer games individually, and instead pushed them into releasing it as a two pack of games.
Working Designs, and by extension Victor Ireland were specifically known for their "expensive boxes of tat". So yes, the kickstarter was mostly an attempt to give the audience he still thought he had, the package of swag he thought they wanted. If it were a game people gave a rat's ass about (on a system that wasn't dead), he likely would have been correct in that assumption. He just got into the platform about a year too late, and put too much weight/ego behind his own name.
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This thing definitely isn't going anywhere, though.
Well he did say he was gonna release both versions at the start, but when the ks started doing bad he lied about it to guilt more sales out of his battered wife syndrome fanbase.
It's honestly kind of sickening the shit ireland has pulled. It's gross malfeasance and puerile manipulation culminating into repeated bouts of lying and mistreatment of his fans. seriously, the stuff he hasn't lied about he's used as base manipulation, shit slinging, and abuse.
that doesn't really make up for lying to and horrifically mistreating your fans, all the while acting like your god's greatest gift to video gaming
also saying in the same month- month- that Xenoblade Chronicles is released that 'JRPGs are dead' is self-deluded to the point of near insanity. His tone and attitude that he and he alone is the only one fighting to help the poor, oppressed JRPG finally find its limelight and that anyone who doesn't support him is a traitor to the 'cause' is both incredibly stupid (because there is no fucking 'cause', that's dumb, stop ascribing false importance to video games) while simultaneously being incredibly insulting to me, a JRPG fan. so you're saying that if i don't support your game (which you've lied about, and continue to lie about) that i'm not a real fan? go fuck yourself, ireland.
Also, Xenoblade isn't much of a counter-argument to the "JRPGs are dead" idea. Xenoblade is an odd one - it's like it's part JRPG, part Western RPG, and part MMORPG. It's a great game, don't get me wrong, but it does little to satiate my desire for good JRPGs in English.
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In one of the podcasts he did recently, he said that he's not completely adverse to PC games but that he's choosing to focus on consoles & portables at the moment because that's where he has experience.
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Steam ID : rwb36, Twitter : Werezompire, Facebook : Zeboyd Games
like i guess i'd be okay with the "this isn't just a video game, it's a movement!" sort of thing if he didn't make it sound like you're a traitorous cunt if you didn't put money in gaijinworks' coffers
finally, and this cannot be stressed enough: ireland is a fucking liar. he lied all the time, about everything having to do with the ks. the few things he didn't lie about he used to extort money from his dwindling fans. he's a p huge douche all around
hey now this is a completely untrue statement
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I have Sega, Nintendo and Xbox games and systems for sale. Please help me buy diapers.
Indie games. But from my discussions with Andrew Dice of Carpe Fulgur, there are a lot of good indie RPGs that aren't being brought over.
Zeboyd Games Development Blog
Steam ID : rwb36, Twitter : Werezompire, Facebook : Zeboyd Games
Bring out the Farland saga games and you can have all my money. Also my firstborn.
Thanks.
Serious question.
They've in fact sworn off PC development in the past three years. PSP and probably Vita will be their home for awhile.
If the XSEED translations go well though on Steam they have a thirty plus game back catalog from the late 90's and 2000's of very well done pc versions/ports/remakes.
Maybe a Kickstarter to actually translate these is in order. (As opposed to "better" an existing one.)
PSN: astronautcowboy 3DS: 5343-8146-1833
I have Sega, Nintendo and Xbox games and systems for sale. Please help me buy diapers.
to be quite honest, i'm p happy about this. maybe ireland will realize how much he fucked up literally every single part of this project from planning to execution, then poisoned the well further by lying and manipulating. probably not, though
Which will probably bomb.
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Steam ID : rwb36, Twitter : Werezompire, Facebook : Zeboyd Games
But considering they decided inexplicably to localize 2 instead of 3, and seem to be under the impression that they're going to release 2, 2's PS3 port, and then also 3 and probably 3's PS3 port, I'd say realistic expectations and Vic Ireland have never been in the same hemisphere.
Zeboyd Games Development Blog
Steam ID : rwb36, Twitter : Werezompire, Facebook : Zeboyd Games
Grimrock and Wizardry yes, but I'd have to argue Etrian Odyssey to a much more limited extent, purely because of the fact that it suffers from "Limited Atlus Print Syndrome" and thus most copies of the game without the box an manual still resell for just shy of the original retail price. And since Nintendo has their head up their asses with the eShop, there's no other alternative to getting the game like the PSN.
Because despite my overall negativity toward this project, I actually want these games. I am one of the exceedingly few people looking forward to its release.
Which actually makes it worse in my eyes, because of how badly it has been mishandled.
They're not THAT rare. From Amazon and Gamestop, it looks like you can pick up copies of most Etrian Odyssey games for around $20.
Also, there's Strange Journey, which I had forgotten about since it's not as good as the Etrian Odyssey series.
Anyway, the point was that there have been a fair number of solid dungeon crawlers in the past couple years. There's also Unchained Blades that XSeed Games will be releasing soon. If anything the genre is oversaturated. A sequel to an unpopular game that got bad review scores is going to find success very difficult to achieve.
Zeboyd Games Development Blog
Steam ID : rwb36, Twitter : Werezompire, Facebook : Zeboyd Games
I purposely looked at Amazon before I even posted. There's one copy of EO2 up there for $21 plus $4 shipping, sure, though cart only. That's the only and lowest example of the game that I found there, the rest are $25 minimum, going up from there, with $4+ shipping - varying dependent on whatever they want to charge, or whether they support prime(usually the ones that do sneakily factor the shipping into the base price). EO1 skyrockets to $50 as soon as the box/manual becomes involved, while EO2/3 get into the mid-upper 30s at the lowest, not counting shipping.
And the problem with Gamestop is that unlike Amazon retailers, gamestop.com makes absolutely no guarantees as to the condition of what you're going to get, outside of that it plays. Sometimes barely even that - I've gotten some seriously messed up ps2 games from Gamestop.com before, and I now flatly refuse to order from their storefront now unless it's a brand new game. (Also, incidentally, gamestop doesn't even have any of the trilogy for sale online at all regardless. Note that anywhere it says "More Info" instead of add to cart actually means "out of stock", and you're limited to searching physical stores in the area - again, no guarantee of condition where available.)
Now, cartridge vs. box/manual purism aside, $30 online is not a particularly ideal price to have to pay for a used standalone cartridge from 5 years ago(EO1). And the biggest problem is that there's no alternative to it like with the PSN.
But in any case yes, I'm not disagreeing with your main point. Besides that example, there are certainly plenty of recent additions to the genre that garner much higher ratings than CoH did, and there isn't any particular reason to fund a sequel to a mediocre game even if he did execute the Kickstarter....well, properly.
PSP games are pretty much doomed to that by definition.
PSN: astronautcowboy 3DS: 5343-8146-1833
I have Sega, Nintendo and Xbox games and systems for sale. Please help me buy diapers.