I don't know if it was specifically at this point in the books, but I know that she was wary of people just taking her dragons from her. Of course that could still happen, from her point of view, but she was reluctant to bring them out while she was standing outside in the desert. It would be too easy for them to just kill them all and take the dragons. I think she at least wanted some food and water and trust first.
Also, they save money by not having to render the dragons again in this ep.
Remind me why Dany wouldn't show her dragons to the guys outside Qarth again? Was that just because they would see they were babies and just take them from her? I don't remember any standoff like that in the books.
They could just murder her and her friends and take them. At least, until she's invited in and eats/drinks. The laws of hospitality and such prevent it at that point.
edit: Plus, demonstration of power. "Show us your dragons." "I don't have to show you shit."
The folks over on censoros are not the most sophisticated of fans, I've found. I like ASOIAF because it isn't a standard fantasy story, full of cliches and tropes. But that's apparently what many of those folks there want. I find it incomprehensible.
This is how I feel about any Jon + Dany theories (and in a larger sense, the entire Jon Snow issue, even though I see the hints as much as anyone else).
I like to think the events in the series are the foundation for the new stories and myths of Westeros. We get to experience the raw source material before time can erode the blemishes or embellish the details. Just imagine what the Frey version of the Red Wedding might be in a thousand years.
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Madpandasuburbs west of chicagoRegistered Userregular
Remind me why Dany wouldn't show her dragons to the guys outside Qarth again? Was that just because they would see they were babies and just take them from her? I don't remember any standoff like that in the books.
They could just murder her and her friends and take them. At least, until she's invited in and eats/drinks. The laws of hospitality and such prevent it at that point.
edit: Plus, demonstration of power. "Show us your dragons." "I don't have to show you shit."
From [Quaithe, the shadowbinder] Dany received only a warning. "Beware," the woman in the red lacquer mask said.
"Of whom?"
"Of all. They shall come day and night to see the wonder that has been born again into the world, and when they see thy shall lust. For dragons are fire made flesh, and fire is power.
In that place in the show, she was too vulnerable and the dragons too weak. By waiting until she is established in a secure location within the city to show them the dragons, she has more control over the situation and they will not be able to seize the dragons and kill her and her khalasar without causing a reaction among the populace.
Remind me why Dany wouldn't show her dragons to the guys outside Qarth again? Was that just because they would see they were babies and just take them from her? I don't remember any standoff like that in the books.
They could just murder her and her friends and take them. At least, until she's invited in and eats/drinks. The laws of hospitality and such prevent it at that point.
edit: Plus, demonstration of power. "Show us your dragons." "I don't have to show you shit."
"But you shared salt and bread with us!"
Can't wait to see the reactions to that scene.
Has the tv show pointed out the importance of the Guest Right yet? Sooner the better IMO.
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I'm just happy Volantis was mentioned. I love little lines that make the world bigger. Mentioning Torrhen's Square off-handedly a few episodes ago was similar.
I'm just happy Volantis was mentioned. I love little lines that make the world bigger. Mentioning Torrhen's Square off-handedly a few episodes ago was similar.
That wasn't off-handed, entirely. It's involved next week, if you watch the preview.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
I'm just happy Volantis was mentioned. I love little lines that make the world bigger. Mentioning Torrhen's Square off-handedly a few episodes ago was similar.
That wasn't off-handed, entirely. It's involved next week, if you watch the preview.
Oh? Cool. I tend to avoid watching previews... a general habit.
Ha, bouncing back and forth between this and the HBO thread, and they are both coincidentally on the topic of mystery girl who challenges Robb. Even better is the wondering aloud about what would happen if Robb forsook his betrothal to get with her.
Honestly, though, I can't see them making so much of a point of introducing us to an attractive girl, giving her a whole scene with Robb, and showing Robb's reaction to her unless she is going to appear again.
Even if she doesn't fit my (or at least other characters') impression of Jeyne from the books at all.
Ha, bouncing back and forth between this and the HBO thread, and they are both coincidentally on the topic of mystery girl who challenges Robb. Even better is the wondering aloud about what would happen if Robb forsook his betrothal to get with her.
Honestly, though, I can't see them making so much of a point of introducing us to an attractive girl, giving her a whole scene with Robb, and showing Robb's reaction to her unless she is going to appear again.
Even if she doesn't fit my (or at least other characters') impression of Jeyne from the books at all.
Yeah, I'm really enjoying seeing the non-book contingent's speculation.
A few nitpickey things that annoyed me about the last episode:
The Tickler kept asking "Where is the brotherhood?" yet I don't think the viewer has any idea what the brotherhood is yet. It seemed like it was confusing, but it wasn't significant enough that anyone would remember the scene later in the series.
Mel and Davos sneaking into the cave under Storm's End. Renly was in a camp outside somewhere, not in Storm's End.
The Mountain looked exactly like every other Lannister soldier except a bit bigger. Giving supporting characters special armor was a good way for us to tell them apart. It doesn't seem like a good idea to get away from it.
The Tickler kept asking "Where is the brotherhood?" yet I don't think the viewer has any idea what the brotherhood is yet.
You're not supposed to. Neither do Gendry or Arya yet, so we're in their shoes
A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
We don't really know where Renly went to in the show. So it's a minor problem that is squished when it turns out he is indeed in Storm's End while his army is camped in the field. Or they're watching the shore around the field, but not tunnels under Storms End obviously. Etc etc.
The Mountain looked exactly like every other Lannister soldier except a bit bigger. Giving supporting characters special armor was a good way for us to tell them apart. It doesn't seem like a good idea to get away from it.
I think they're intentionally minimizing New Mountain's screen presence, so it won't be as obvious when they bring back Classic Mountain.
We don't really know where Renly went to in the show. So it's a minor problem that is squished when it turns out he is indeed in Storm's End while his army is camped in the field. Or they're watching the shore around the field, but not tunnels under Storms End obviously. Etc etc.
It's possible they're at Storm's end, but it's not featured in the opening and Margaery mentions that they're regularly on the move.
"In the TV series her character is replaced by a character called Talisa of Volantis played by Oona Chaplin."
....I wonder just how different the tv show is going to get over the course of the next few (fingers crossed) seasons. Gonna be odd when my pal who watches the show and likes book examples as world building/contrast asks me about her and I tell him she doesn't exist but in fact was a blah blah blah Jeyne Westerling explanation.
Yeah you can derive a lot of things from that scene if you wish but I thought the main point was that Robb suddenly found a woman who stood up to him and he admired that. I thought it was very obvious he looked at her with appreciation despite the fact that she was arguing against him
He does seem like the type of man that would want a women who would challenge him, rather than a trophy to sit next to him quietly. Sucks he is promised to one of Filch's "daughters" (used very loosely).
Damn, forgot about Filch.
Well, he's kind of a powerless prick, and I can easily see Robb getting swept up in the emotion of meeting a woman who's worthwhile. Wonder how they'll play that.
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"In the TV series her character is replaced by a character called Talisa of Volantis played by Oona Chaplin."
Why would they do that?
Robb wouldn't just marry some random chick.
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DomhnallMinty D. Vision!ScotlandRegistered Userregular
edited April 2012
Actually wasn't the whole thing was that Robb was wounded in taking the Westerling's castle (the Crag?) and she nursed him (at her mother's behest probably since she was planning with Twin...although that may have come later?) as he was injured and then he gets the news of Bran and Rickon's 'death'. So not only does he have the whole 'oooh, sexy lady nursed me' but then he's torn up by grief and seeks comfort. Robb, seeing how his brother Jon was treated by his mother/everyone because he's a bastard, decides to throw away his own honour to protect hers. It didn't have anything to do with getting like fifty men and 3 knights, it was a purely emotional reaction from sleeping with her to marrying her. Politics didn't enter into it at all. So I can see how he'd just marry a random chick.
edit:
Also she may not even just be a random chick. Volantis is the free city that Patchface is from. Not sure how exactly strong it is or if someone who is refered to as 'of Volantis' would actually be high up 'Robb Stark of Winterfell' or just a person from that city 'of the North'..... Its 4.30am and I should probably sleep.
edit 2: Well, whilst she is just some random chick there's the flimsy thing that her family is an old one descended from teh First Men. But that's clearly bullshit they just trot up after the fact Robb has just married some random chick.
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"In the TV series her character is replaced by a character called Talisa of Volantis played by Oona Chaplin."
Why would they do that?
Robb wouldn't just marry some random chick.
Who was Jeyne Westerling if not just some random chick?
The daughter of a Lord. The kind of person the son of a Lord marries.
I feel like they operate a little differently in the North. Especially considering Robb wanting to secede for all intents and purposes.
They don't. Having just read ADWD I can assure you, the sons of nobles marry the daughters of other nobles.
I've read them all as well. Twice. I'm sure they're going to work in that she's someone's daughter or some such. Or maybe they just won't care? It's an adaptation.
Wait I never really read into anything about Jeyne being a plant to woo Robb, is that a popular theory? I just thought he got his first cool drink of milk and bought the cow without thinking, so to speak.
e: humorous aside I just remembered,
when they showed a letter someone (Theon?) was writing to Robb my wife said "Ugh, Robb with two B's, really? Well I hope he dies now".
Grey Wind hated Jeyne 's uncle (?) and I think there were a few other suspicious things about her family. I don't remever thinking Jeyne was intentionally involved, but her family seemed to be.
Huh? I remember it being heavily implied that Tywin cut a deal with Jeyne's mother and she basically chucked her daughter at him and waited for the inevitable.
He arranged the damn Red Wedding.
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ShadowenSnores in the morningLoserdomRegistered Userregular
edited April 2012
What happened was,
Robb was wounded taking the Crag, Jeyne helped, ah, "nurse him back to health", they slept together, he decided to marry her to preserve her honor even if it meant breaking his own. Rather than have Tywin Lannister come down on the Crag like he did on Castamere, Jeyne's mother informed Tywin and presumably offered him Robb in exchange for clemency, money, marriages, land, etc. Of course, Robb's equivalent of the Kingsguard were too alert and too careful, so the only time to kill him was when they weren't expecting it. And as it turned out his actions had royally pissed off one of his bannermen...
And in the meantime, Lady Westerling gave her daughter moon tea while claiming it was a fertility drug.
Huh? I remember it being heavily implied that Tywin cut a deal with Jeyne's mother and she basically chucked her daughter at him and waited for the inevitable.
He arranged the damn Red Wedding.
It's hinted that the mother has been slipping Moon Tea into Jeyne's drinks.
It's been a while since I've tried to track down all of the hint, but I think it's kind of like: Jeyne 'comforts' Robb after a battle, and (being his father's son) he insists they marry. The mother realizes this is a Bad Thing, and contacts Tywin in an attempt to avoid the fate of the Castameres.
Robb was wounded taking the Crag, Jeyne helped, ah, "nurse him back to health", they slept together, he decided to marry her to preserve her honor even if it meant breaking his own. Rather than have Tywin Lannister come down on the Crag like he did on Castamere, Jeyne's mother informed Tywin and presumably offered him Robb in exchange for clemency, money, marriages, land, etc. Of course, Robb's equivalent of the Kingsguard were too alert and too careful, so the only time to kill him was when they weren't expecting it. And as it turned out his actions had royally pissed off one of his bannermen...
And in the meantime, Lady Westerling gave her daughter moon tea while claiming it was a fertility drug.
meaning roose bolton? why was roose pissed again? or you mean lord karstark who by that point has already been killed?
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Also, they save money by not having to render the dragons again in this ep.
They could just murder her and her friends and take them. At least, until she's invited in and eats/drinks. The laws of hospitality and such prevent it at that point.
edit: Plus, demonstration of power. "Show us your dragons." "I don't have to show you shit."
I hadn't thought about that. I think guest right is a Westeros tradition but Dany might assume it's universal.
I like to think the events in the series are the foundation for the new stories and myths of Westeros. We get to experience the raw source material before time can erode the blemishes or embellish the details. Just imagine what the Frey version of the Red Wedding might be in a thousand years.
Law and Order ≠ Justice
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"But you shared salt and bread with us!"
Can't wait to see the reactions to that scene.
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In that place in the show, she was too vulnerable and the dragons too weak. By waiting until she is established in a secure location within the city to show them the dragons, she has more control over the situation and they will not be able to seize the dragons and kill her and her khalasar without causing a reaction among the populace.
Has the tv show pointed out the importance of the Guest Right yet? Sooner the better IMO.
Law and Order ≠ Justice
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Captain of the SES Comptroller of the State
"RW"
She said she was Talisa of Volantis.
Nah she said she was from Volantis.
Except
That wasn't off-handed, entirely. It's involved next week, if you watch the preview.
Oh? Cool. I tend to avoid watching previews... a general habit.
Honestly, though, I can't see them making so much of a point of introducing us to an attractive girl, giving her a whole scene with Robb, and showing Robb's reaction to her unless she is going to appear again.
Yeah, I'm really enjoying seeing the non-book contingent's speculation.
I liked that scene
The Tickler kept asking "Where is the brotherhood?" yet I don't think the viewer has any idea what the brotherhood is yet. It seemed like it was confusing, but it wasn't significant enough that anyone would remember the scene later in the series.
Mel and Davos sneaking into the cave under Storm's End. Renly was in a camp outside somewhere, not in Storm's End.
The Mountain looked exactly like every other Lannister soldier except a bit bigger. Giving supporting characters special armor was a good way for us to tell them apart. It doesn't seem like a good idea to get away from it.
You're not supposed to. Neither do Gendry or Arya yet, so we're in their shoes
I think they're intentionally minimizing New Mountain's screen presence, so it won't be as obvious when they bring back Classic Mountain.
"In the TV series her character is replaced by a character called Talisa of Volantis played by Oona Chaplin."
It's possible they're at Storm's end, but it's not featured in the opening and Margaery mentions that they're regularly on the move.
....I wonder just how different the tv show is going to get over the course of the next few (fingers crossed) seasons. Gonna be odd when my pal who watches the show and likes book examples as world building/contrast asks me about her and I tell him she doesn't exist but in fact was a blah blah blah Jeyne Westerling explanation.
edit:
Tv thread.
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Why would they do that?
Robb wouldn't just marry some random chick.
edit:
Also she may not even just be a random chick. Volantis is the free city that Patchface is from. Not sure how exactly strong it is or if someone who is refered to as 'of Volantis' would actually be high up 'Robb Stark of Winterfell' or just a person from that city 'of the North'..... Its 4.30am and I should probably sleep.
edit 2: Well, whilst she is just some random chick there's the flimsy thing that her family is an old one descended from teh First Men. But that's clearly bullshit they just trot up after the fact Robb has just married some random chick.
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Who was Jeyne Westerling if not just some random chick?
A plant.
The daughter of a Lord. The kind of person the son of a Lord marries.
I feel like they operate a little differently in the North. Especially considering Robb wanting to secede for all intents and purposes.
They don't. Having just read ADWD I can assure you, the sons of nobles marry the daughters of other nobles.
I've read them all as well. Twice. I'm sure they're going to work in that she's someone's daughter or some such. Or maybe they just won't care? It's an adaptation.
e: humorous aside I just remembered,
He arranged the damn Red Wedding.
And in the meantime, Lady Westerling gave her daughter moon tea while claiming it was a fertility drug.
It's hinted that the mother has been slipping Moon Tea into Jeyne's drinks.
It's been a while since I've tried to track down all of the hint, but I think it's kind of like: Jeyne 'comforts' Robb after a battle, and (being his father's son) he insists they marry. The mother realizes this is a Bad Thing, and contacts Tywin in an attempt to avoid the fate of the Castameres.
edit: and Shadowen's post wasn't there, I swear.