I would be all for bringing Stephanie Brown back to life/making it so she was never actually dead.
Speaking of shitty retcons, turning kindly old Leslie Thompkins into a murderous, petty cunt who'd let a teenager die after being tortured for hours, just to prove a point to Batman, was possibly one of the worst things ever committed to paper in the last decade of comics.
Yes, it was before Miller. COIE basically rebooted the DC Universe, so the characters origins had to be re-told. John Byrne did a Superman: Man of Steel miniseries and Miller did Batman: Year One.
Grant Morrison seems to be one of these writers who put a high priority on "fun" and "telling good stories" instead of actually RESPECTING the characters and their creators' original vision. It's indicative of a real sickness at the heart of today's comic books that someone like that would be hired to write one of the Lee/Kirby creations.
o_O
The sad thing is, Byrne has actually done one or two good retcons. His Man of Steel introduced suave businessman Lex Luthor, which was such an improvement on the fat mad scientist that it's pretty much been enshrined in permanent canon, and the West Coast Avengers run where he messed around with the Vision/android Human Torch's origin was also pretty cool at the time. (On the other hand, around the same time he was retconning Vision and Wanda's marriage out of existence in spectacularly retarded fashion, so...)
Grant Morrison seems to be one of these writers who put a high priority on "fun" and "telling good stories" instead of actually RESPECTING the characters and their creators' original vision. It's indicative of a real sickness at the heart of today's comic books that someone like that would be hired to write one of the Lee/Kirby creations.
o_O
The sad thing is, Byrne has actually done one or two good retcons. His Man of Steel introduced suave businessman Lex Luthor, which was such an improvement on the fat mad scientist that it's pretty much been enshrined in permanent canon, and the West Coast Avengers run where he messed around with the Vision/android Human Torch's origin was also pretty cool at the time. (On the other hand, around the same time he was retconning Vision and Wanda's marriage out of existence in spectacularly retarded fashion, so...)
Dear lord, you mean I might actually LIKE a comic book for being GOOD? I hope that day never comes!
I'm all for respecting the characters, but I don't think that it's disrepectful to have them appear in GOOD stories. Poor guy, gettin' old and mixed up.
Batman: Year One is current continuity? I didn't realize that. I mean, it's the definitive Batman story and all, but I thought all the original Bob Kane stuff was still his true origin. Not as if it matters. Batman's origin is really just "parents murdered in front of him." None of the other details are really that important.
How about Long Halloween and Dark Victory? Are those considered current continuity also? After all, Loeb was deliberately following up on the Year One Batman.
It's worth pointing out that Bob Kane initially wrote a Batman who didn't have a problem killing criminals, so the original stuff is most definitely out of continuity.
Meanwhile, the classic Batman we're most familiar with came about through editorial mandate demanding nicer characters.
Man, speaking of Batman, I thought HUSH was pretty cool. But I thought changing all that stuff in the final fight to ACTUALLY being Jason was obnoxiously lame. Grr.
The whole Magneto/Xorn being influenced by Kick making him crazy thing actually goes deeper than that.
In 'Here Comes Tomorrow' it is revealed that Kick was a way of being infected by the sentient organism, Sublime.
So really it was Sublime who possessed Magneto/Xorn into doing those awful things.
I wonder if Sublime will ever be revisited because he was revealed to be the underlying villian in Morrison's run. (His human form John Sublime was the leader of the U-Men, there were connections to Weapon Plus, Kick influenced Quenton Quire, the Omega Gang, and Xorn.)
Days of Future Now was incredibly meh. I say incredible because the pencils, inks and coloring was so popping but the story went no where fast. I say fast because a bunch of characters showed up all changed and futuristic but none of it mattered. I say none of it mattered because just like X-men: The End, it didn't really pull together a bunch of stories or show much of the rest of the Marvel U.
Grant Morrison seems to be one of these writers who put a high priority on "fun" and "telling good stories" instead of actually RESPECTING the characters and their creators' original vision. It's indicative of a real sickness at the heart of today's comic books that someone like that would be hired to write one of the Lee/Kirby creations.
o_O
The sad thing is, Byrne has actually done one or two good retcons. His Man of Steel introduced suave businessman Lex Luthor, which was such an improvement on the fat mad scientist that it's pretty much been enshrined in permanent canon, and the West Coast Avengers run where he messed around with the Vision/android Human Torch's origin was also pretty cool at the time. (On the other hand, around the same time he was retconning Vision and Wanda's marriage out of existence in spectacularly retarded fashion, so...)
haha
i had to read that twice. did lewis carrol write it? it's like literary nonsense. 'FUN characters and GOOD stories are NOT WHAT COMCIS ARE ABOUT! the GREEN revenge UNCLED regularly!'
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
John Sublime's a possible cause of M-Day. I mean, give Scarlet Witch some Kick...
Someone gave Wanda extreme power, which is what drove her insane, which basically caused everything up to and including Civil War (and thus, the initiative and what is happening currently), indirectly.
John Sublime's a possible cause of M-Day. I mean, give Scarlet Witch some Kick...
Someone gave Wanda extreme power, which is what drove her insane, which basically caused everything up to and including Civil War (and thus, the initiative and what is happening currently), indirectly.
Well, yeah, and that person could have been Sublime.
Honestly, I don't know what Muffin Man was trying to say. Was he reiterating my point in greater detail? If so, why omit Sublime's name and say "someone"?
That was the only response that seemed appropriate.
Hooraydiation on
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
Honestly, I don't know what Muffin Man was trying to say. Was he reiterating my point in greater detail? If so, why omit Sublime's name and say "someone"?
That was the only response that seemed appropriate.
Well, I agree that it could have been Kick and Sublime, but since her father went through that whole thing, it would seem to be somewhat derivative if Wanda went through that as well. Although Pietro is going through something else (that family's luck really sucks) so maybe Wanda was administered Kick, although I don't think it would be voluntary.
i feel like sublime just chose kick because it was a convenient way to get to a lot of random mutants over an extended period of time. i think if he had just one person in mind, he could infect them without them using kick.
Honestly, I don't know what Muffin Man was trying to say. Was he reiterating my point in greater detail? If so, why omit Sublime's name and say "someone"?
That was the only response that seemed appropriate.
Well, I agree that it could have been Kick and Sublime, but since her father went through that whole thing, it would seem to be somewhat derivative if Wanda went through that as well. Although Pietro is going through something else (that family's luck really sucks) so maybe Wanda was administered Kick, although I don't think it would be voluntary.
Man, speaking of Batman, I thought HUSH was pretty cool. But I thought changing all that stuff in the final fight to ACTUALLY being Jason was obnoxiously lame. Grr.
I thought the return of Jason Todd could have been really awesome, but it has been really dumb. I really wanted it to be a big conspiracy thing by a bunch of Bat-rogues and maybe Lex Luthor... involving Ra's and Deathstroke and Deadshot and David Cain and so on finding Jason, training him and brainwashing him and stuff, instead of Super-boy punched reality, lol... He also went from a badass dirty vigilante to a guy who gets kicked in the junk a lot...
Honestly, I don't know what Muffin Man was trying to say. Was he reiterating my point in greater detail? If so, why omit Sublime's name and say "someone"?
That was the only response that seemed appropriate.
God Thanos (higher than living tribunal in power):" no living being shall come back from the dead from this day forth...."
so much for that idea, as thanos sacrifices himself and his highest form of godhood to keep people in marvel universe from coming back from the dead, only for he himself to come back from the dead in annihilation several months following
God Thanos (higher than living tribunal in power):" no living being shall come back from the dead from this day forth...."
so much for that idea, as thanos sacrifices himself and his highest form of godhood to keep people in marvel universe from coming back from the dead, only for he himself to come back from the dead in annihilation several months following
Yes, and if that series (marvel: the end) was in the same continuity as Annihilation you might have a point.
My favourite retcon was when all that stuff about the Punisher dying and being resurrected as an instrument of heavenly wrath and retribution was explained away in about two pages by Ennis.
"Tried it for a while. Didn't like it. Told them where to shove it."
Also, Winter Soldier. When I first heard of it, I thought it was damn stupid. Then when I actually read the story I found myself really liking the character, especially the CW stuff he popped up in.
can someone explain to me how winter soldier was a retcon? i saw him in civil war issues working with fury, and i thought that was pretty freakin cool, him being a super ultra secret agent.
in Ultimate alliance it makes him seem like he was a 4th-tier villain in cap's rogues gallery. that and he was angry at cap for some reason. did he have a change of heart?
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I'm like 95% sure.
PSN: OrneryRooster
Editor's Note: None of that happened. We now return you to your regularly scheduled origin.
Every DC character is
There was thing called Crisis on Infinite Earths. It reset everything
You may have heard of it
Speaking of shitty retcons, turning kindly old Leslie Thompkins into a murderous, petty cunt who'd let a teenager die after being tortured for hours, just to prove a point to Batman, was possibly one of the worst things ever committed to paper in the last decade of comics.
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Yes, it was before Miller. COIE basically rebooted the DC Universe, so the characters origins had to be re-told. John Byrne did a Superman: Man of Steel miniseries and Miller did Batman: Year One.
John Byrne's Doom Patrol.
He wiped out their entire history. Along came Infinite Crisis and boom...history restored.
Take it..bitch. Go scribble something.
PSN: OrneryRooster
I mean, he did some fantastic stuff. Fantastic Four, Superman: Man of Steel, She-Hulk, X-Men.
Now, he's really not good at all.
The last good thing I can think of that he's done is Hellboy, and he was working with Mignola and it was only for the first story.
he saw all those youngs guys do their thing and make money hand over fist in the 90's and he was left in the dust.
o_O
The sad thing is, Byrne has actually done one or two good retcons. His Man of Steel introduced suave businessman Lex Luthor, which was such an improvement on the fat mad scientist that it's pretty much been enshrined in permanent canon, and the West Coast Avengers run where he messed around with the Vision/android Human Torch's origin was also pretty cool at the time. (On the other hand, around the same time he was retconning Vision and Wanda's marriage out of existence in spectacularly retarded fashion, so...)
Dear lord, you mean I might actually LIKE a comic book for being GOOD? I hope that day never comes!
I'm all for respecting the characters, but I don't think that it's disrepectful to have them appear in GOOD stories. Poor guy, gettin' old and mixed up.
How about Long Halloween and Dark Victory? Are those considered current continuity also? After all, Loeb was deliberately following up on the Year One Batman.
Meanwhile, the classic Batman we're most familiar with came about through editorial mandate demanding nicer characters.
Certainly more than a few times during that relatively brief era.
In 'Here Comes Tomorrow' it is revealed that Kick was a way of being infected by the sentient organism, Sublime.
So really it was Sublime who possessed Magneto/Xorn into doing those awful things.
I wonder if Sublime will ever be revisited because he was revealed to be the underlying villian in Morrison's run. (His human form John Sublime was the leader of the U-Men, there were connections to Weapon Plus, Kick influenced Quenton Quire, the Omega Gang, and Xorn.)
3DS: 5241-1953-7031
haha
i had to read that twice. did lewis carrol write it? it's like literary nonsense. 'FUN characters and GOOD stories are NOT WHAT COMCIS ARE ABOUT! the GREEN revenge UNCLED regularly!'
Well, yeah, and that person could have been Sublime.
That was the only response that seemed appropriate.
This is the retcon thread, so it'd be a retcon.
'hm, a family with two of the most powerful mutants on the world. i should probably just take over one of them. but which one? think, sublime, think!'
I thought the return of Jason Todd could have been really awesome, but it has been really dumb. I really wanted it to be a big conspiracy thing by a bunch of Bat-rogues and maybe Lex Luthor... involving Ra's and Deathstroke and Deadshot and David Cain and so on finding Jason, training him and brainwashing him and stuff, instead of Super-boy punched reality, lol... He also went from a badass dirty vigilante to a guy who gets kicked in the junk a lot...
Wait, what did I say?
God Thanos (higher than living tribunal in power):" no living being shall come back from the dead from this day forth...."
so much for that idea, as thanos sacrifices himself and his highest form of godhood to keep people in marvel universe from coming back from the dead, only for he himself to come back from the dead in annihilation several months following
Yes, and if that series (marvel: the end) was in the same continuity as Annihilation you might have a point.
Thanos is as nothing before the power of wiki
Tall-Paul MIPsDroid
"Tried it for a while. Didn't like it. Told them where to shove it."
Also, Winter Soldier. When I first heard of it, I thought it was damn stupid. Then when I actually read the story I found myself really liking the character, especially the CW stuff he popped up in.
in Ultimate alliance it makes him seem like he was a 4th-tier villain in cap's rogues gallery. that and he was angry at cap for some reason. did he have a change of heart?