I WANT TO MURDER EVERY PERSON WHO FUNDED THAT PROJECT.
DK please explain why a Leisure Suit Larry project with updated graphics and gameplay would be a bad thing!
Because the Leisure Suit Larry games rank amongst mankind's most awful crimes.
Followup question: Were you a fan of adventure games during that same period that did not have the same sophomoric approach to sex? Like King's Quest, Zork, Monkey Island, etc.?
Level with me, monkey to monkey. I'm trying to deduce if you dislike that type of game in general or if it's really just the themes and humor in the Leisure Suit Larry series that has you down.
So were "fighters" in a fantasy role playing setting too reminiscent of the bullies who savaged his taint with his own underwear as a kid? Is he trying to make some sort of haughty political statement about intellectualism by elevating one group of classes and nerfing another?
This Monte Cook guy is a riddle wrapped in a cheese-stained, midwestern puzzle.
it makes sense to me from a thematic point of view
like, you can do a lot of pushups, but you're still probably going to get your ass handed to you by a dude who can manipulate the fabric of reality
from a game point of view, it seems mean to make some classes better than others
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Deebaseron my way to work in a suit and a tieAhhhh...come on fucking guyRegistered Userregular
I hate public transportation when I have to carry things.
WTB private jet
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
thats definitely true dk
games make it hard
thats why if i made a game it would take a very naturalistic approach to world interaction and have a very minimalist ui, if it had a ui at all
i am under no impression that this wouldnt annoy the balls off 90% of players though
He had a skill whereby he could not only pickpocket, but he could also pick his own pockets. We had this awesome chart of things I could find, and they foolishly put "magical item" on the list.
So, basically, every action I took was me trying to find an awesome magical item in my coat of many pockets.
DM: The skeletal mages slowly advance towards you, their hands surrounded in magical flaims. What do you do?
Friend one: I get into defensive stance and grip my axe.
Friend two: I ready my bow.
Friend three: I prepare a healing spell:
_J_: I search my pockets, trying to find that magical dagger of skeletal mage killing I swore I had.
As it is, I've run two game sessions of Mutants & Masterminds 3E and already I'm regretting that system choice because of an over-reliance on opaque mechanics
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SarksusATTACK AND DETHRONE GODRegistered Userregular
To actually weigh your options, you need to go through the book with a calculator or a spreadsheet and sit down and crunch numbers
That's what any reasonable player does.
Again, this doesn't seem like a trap or poor design philosophy. So long as the mathematical formulas are provided by which one can weight the various attributes and so discern the mechanically best build...it seems fine to me.
A lot of people dont play games to do math and take the rules at face value so they can continue on to doing what they want to do which is make a cool character and role play.
I can understand why a person would be initially inclined towards this sentiment.
But given the quantity of numbers involved in the game, it seems silly to ignore the mathematical component of character design. You’re rolling dice to generate numbers, you’re defining characters in terms of their numbers, you’re weighing your numbers against charts of other numbers.
How someone can be aware of that, and yet ignore it to focus upon “Herp derp imma rogue” eludes me.
The issue, J, is in the importance of role-playing in the equation: why, in the interest of role-playing, would one have to take one perk over another due to mathematical superiority if it conflicts with their character? I struggled with this issue as well but after some thought realized the prime directive of RPGs - to enjoy a role outside the boundaries of our strict reality, that is, our operating reality that has asymmetric and measurably 'correct' outcomes.
Yeah…
One time my friends got mad at me for mathing, and so forced me to pick a character that I had to role play. I could only discern the role playing aspects, and couldn’t focus upon the math / stats.
So I played a Kender.
They learned their lesson.
Because rolling dice and looking at charts is easy and it's obvious what to do and that you have to do it. Discovering the mathematical rules underlying the mechanics and then mathematically finding the most optimal build is not obvious and it's up to you to figure it out. I
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ThomamelasOnly one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered Userregular
making stuff all look like its filmed on a 50 dollar camcorder is another
Yes, we should clearly accept shitty artifacts because "that's what film is". Shooting on digital at 48 fps isn't going to look like a 50 dollar camcorder. It will allow the DP more control over his panning speed and give him some more options because he won't have to worry as much about turning the shot into an unmanageable blur.
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TehSlothHit Or MissI Guess They Never Miss, HuhRegistered Userregular
Would someone please go synchronize the clocks on nodes of Vanilla's cluster? This is ridiculous.
I don't think it's clock synchronization. I think it's just time information is begin truncated down to the minute. Also, why they don't just sort by post ID is beyond me.
As it is, I've run two game sessions of Mutants & Masterminds 3E and already I'm regretting that system choice because of an over-reliance on opaque mechanics
I WANT TO MURDER EVERY PERSON WHO FUNDED THAT PROJECT.
DK please explain why a Leisure Suit Larry project with updated graphics and gameplay would be a bad thing!
Because the Leisure Suit Larry games rank amongst mankind's most awful crimes.
Leisure Suit Larry is the gaming world equivalent of Tucker Max. And then people scratch their heads wondering why the gaming community is filled with a bunch of misogynists.
computer rpg design had to overcome all those design problems as they developed, and its interesting nobody thinks the way he does any more
Plenty of people do in the tabletop sphere, out of a misguided belief that mechanical rigor somehow saps a game of some unquantifiable essence.
These are the sorts of people who think there's actual real marked differences between "rollplayers" and "roleplayers"
or talk about "Narrativist" vs. "Gameist" design as if that's a real thing
aka people who want another way to scoff "Pfft, casuals"
well, it's funny, you get it from both ends. there are the amateur thespian types who drag out the fainting couch at the suggestion that a system should be kind of mathematically robust, like all those awful numbers will sap the color and joy out of the world. but there are also the oldschool grognards who stick Gygax quotes in their sigs and they think game balance and math rigor is stupid because to them it's an adversarial, players-vs-GM game and giving the players a suite of effective options impinges on the GM's prerogative to go "no, you can't do that. also you die. roll up a new guy."
Some days I want a crunchy system where I roll lots of fucking dice and check tables. Somedays I want to just tell a damn story and act shit out. There is room for both.
making stuff all look like its filmed on a 50 dollar camcorder is another
Yes, we should clearly accept shitty artifacts because "that's what film is". Shooting on digital at 48 fps isn't going to look like a 50 dollar camcorder. It will allow the DP more control over his panning speed and give him some more options because he won't have to worry as much about turning the shot into an unmanageable blur.
Maybe in modern-day filmmaking it would represent an innovation, but there's a whole entire back catalog of "all movies that have ever been made up until recently" that were already shot with those considerations in mind. What harm is there in viewing the final product exactly as the director intended?
what's really hilarious to me is when a player thinks they have a clear mastery of the game's mechanics based on their excel spreadsheets and analysis but their relative inexperience with sitting down to play the game with human beings actually leads them to emphasize qualities and abilities that actually really aren't that useful.
WotC's Character Optimization board always used to be good for a laugh with this. The most hilarious were "Gish" builds, which were designed to be amazing-at-everything fighter/mage combos that could wear armor and use swords and also sling spells and be the most awesome and make the rest of the party obsolete.
It's like these people were designing characters under the assumption they didn't have a party or any friends. Which is hilarious, when you think about it.
He had this awesome ability whereby he could not only pickpocket, but he could also search his own pockets. And we found a chart of items I could search for in my own pockets such as string, mice, etc. But to keep things interesting my friends foolishly added “magic items” to the list.
So, basically every action I took was searching my own pockets trying to find an awesome magic item.
DM: The skeletal mages slowly advance towards you, their hands surrounded in deadly flames. What do you do?
Friend 1: I get into defensive stance and grip my axe.
Friend 2: I ready my bow.
Friend 3: I prepare a healing spell.
_J_: I search my pockets for that magical dagger of skeletal mage killing I swore I had.
Friend 1, 2, and 3: God damn it.
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21stCenturyCall me Pixel, or Pix for short![They/Them]Registered Userregular
Deebaseron my way to work in a suit and a tieAhhhh...come on fucking guyRegistered Userregular
Relax, 21. Relax
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VanguardBut now the dream is over. And the insect is awake.Registered User, __BANNED USERSregular
edited April 2012
There is a difference between systems designed for rollplaying and roleplaying. You can disagree, but you would be wrong.
D&D, and it's various iterations, are about killing shit in an underground maze. You can give your character motivations, have touching roleplaying moments, etc, but the game is so mired in math and stats that it's hard to ignore it for very long. None of the roleplaying stuff makes it into the character creation process beyond playing these archetypes of "Rogue", "Wizard", "Barbarian" etc. Of course, it can, but that doesn't mean it does.
Now, take a game like Burning Wheel. This is a game that does not encourage dungeon crawling. You could still do it, but the focus is on creating characters with motivations, history, and instincts.
Vanguard on
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SarksusATTACK AND DETHRONE GODRegistered Userregular
J that sounds really boring for everyone except you. Play Singleplayer RPGs.
I like replacing nouns with something else in famous book titles
"tender is the gengar"
"invisible gengar"
"gengars and lovers"
"the gengar and the fury"
"the great gengar"
"brave new gengar"
"i, gengar"
"from gengar to eternity"
"and the morning stars I have seen
and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
As it is, I've run two game sessions of Mutants & Masterminds 3E and already I'm regretting that system choice because of an over-reliance on opaque mechanics
asplain please?
my problems are three-fold.
1. Too many status effects to keep track of and what they all fucking mean, especially when most of the party has Affliction powers that do different things.
2. The game is WAY too arbitrary on when you are rolling dice with a bonus vs. when your bonus is a flat value someone else is rolling against in combat. It should either be one or the other, not both based on contrivances.
3. The Toughness mechanic makes fights take too long.
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Donkey KongPutting Nintendo out of business with AI nipsRegistered Userregular
I like replacing nouns with something else in famous book titles
"tender is the gengar"
"invisible gengar"
"gengars and lovers"
"the gengar and the fury"
"the great gengar"
"brave new gengar"
"i, gengar"
"from gengar to eternity"
GET THIS MAN A JOB ASSIGNING TITLES TO EPISODES OF CARTOONS
Thousands of hot, local singles are waiting to play at bubbulon.com.
I like replacing nouns with something else in famous book titles
"tender is the gengar"
"invisible gengar"
"gengars and lovers"
"the gengar and the fury"
"the great gengar"
"brave new gengar"
"i, gengar"
"from gengar to eternity"
That's like the murloc game WoWers play in /2.
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21stCenturyCall me Pixel, or Pix for short![They/Them]Registered Userregular
Omg, girl friend I wasn't that into then moved far away is now sending text messages asking me to come join her (semi jokingly but not jokingly at all) is not getting the hint and now I just sent a straight forward "Im not doing it" text that makes me want to puke because I hate being serious let alone blunt with someone elses emotions. :P
What is that game theory called, that breaks players down into Explorer, Socializer, Achiever, Killer?
I actually don't care for that one because it really only works for MMOs and seems to be putting the cart before the horse - in other words, they took the design goals of MMOs and said, "There's a type of player that likes each of these design goals." Well, duh.
I prefer Wizards' psychographic profiles (Johnny, Timmy, Spike, Lorthos, Melvin). I think they are much more generalizable to other game types.
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
I like replacing nouns with something else in famous book titles
"tender is the gengar"
"invisible gengar"
"gengars and lovers"
"the gengar and the fury"
"the great gengar"
"brave new gengar"
"i, gengar"
"from gengar to eternity"
It's eerily similar to the merloc WoW spam chat game, but I'm down:
"moby gengar"
"to kill a gengar"
"slaughterhouse gengar"
"gone with the gengar"
Posts
Followup question: Were you a fan of adventure games during that same period that did not have the same sophomoric approach to sex? Like King's Quest, Zork, Monkey Island, etc.?
Level with me, monkey to monkey. I'm trying to deduce if you dislike that type of game in general or if it's really just the themes and humor in the Leisure Suit Larry series that has you down.
it makes sense to me from a thematic point of view
like, you can do a lot of pushups, but you're still probably going to get your ass handed to you by a dude who can manipulate the fabric of reality
from a game point of view, it seems mean to make some classes better than others
WTB private jet
games make it hard
thats why if i made a game it would take a very naturalistic approach to world interaction and have a very minimalist ui, if it had a ui at all
i am under no impression that this wouldnt annoy the balls off 90% of players though
thug lyfe
God, I miss my Kender.
He had a skill whereby he could not only pickpocket, but he could also pick his own pockets. We had this awesome chart of things I could find, and they foolishly put "magical item" on the list.
So, basically, every action I took was me trying to find an awesome magical item in my coat of many pockets.
DM: The skeletal mages slowly advance towards you, their hands surrounded in magical flaims. What do you do?
Friend one: I get into defensive stance and grip my axe.
Friend two: I ready my bow.
Friend three: I prepare a healing spell:
_J_: I search my pockets, trying to find that magical dagger of skeletal mage killing I swore I had.
Because rolling dice and looking at charts is easy and it's obvious what to do and that you have to do it. Discovering the mathematical rules underlying the mechanics and then mathematically finding the most optimal build is not obvious and it's up to you to figure it out. I
Yes, we should clearly accept shitty artifacts because "that's what film is". Shooting on digital at 48 fps isn't going to look like a 50 dollar camcorder. It will allow the DP more control over his panning speed and give him some more options because he won't have to worry as much about turning the shot into an unmanageable blur.
Yeah, this is probably the best solution. It's like eating a weird extra meaty goulash.
twitch.tv/tehsloth
I don't think it's clock synchronization. I think it's just time information is begin truncated down to the minute. Also, why they don't just sort by post ID is beyond me.
Check out my site, the Bismuth Heart | My Twitter
asplain please?
Leisure Suit Larry is the gaming world equivalent of Tucker Max. And then people scratch their heads wondering why the gaming community is filled with a bunch of misogynists.
It feels very unsuperheroic and very d20.
Some days I want a crunchy system where I roll lots of fucking dice and check tables. Somedays I want to just tell a damn story and act shit out. There is room for both.
but that doesn't make it fun for people who want to be something other than a wizard
Maybe in modern-day filmmaking it would represent an innovation, but there's a whole entire back catalog of "all movies that have ever been made up until recently" that were already shot with those considerations in mind. What harm is there in viewing the final product exactly as the director intended?
Deep breaths!
Inner peace!
Etc!
WotC's Character Optimization board always used to be good for a laugh with this. The most hilarious were "Gish" builds, which were designed to be amazing-at-everything fighter/mage combos that could wear armor and use swords and also sling spells and be the most awesome and make the rest of the party obsolete.
It's like these people were designing characters under the assumption they didn't have a party or any friends. Which is hilarious, when you think about it.
I love my Kender.
He had this awesome ability whereby he could not only pickpocket, but he could also search his own pockets. And we found a chart of items I could search for in my own pockets such as string, mice, etc. But to keep things interesting my friends foolishly added “magic items” to the list.
So, basically every action I took was searching my own pockets trying to find an awesome magic item.
DM: The skeletal mages slowly advance towards you, their hands surrounded in deadly flames. What do you do?
Friend 1: I get into defensive stance and grip my axe.
Friend 2: I ready my bow.
Friend 3: I prepare a healing spell.
_J_: I search my pockets for that magical dagger of skeletal mage killing I swore I had.
Friend 1, 2, and 3: God damn it.
If it were that simple... Good gravy, if it were that simple, i'd be so happy.
Gonna have to try calling back in 15 minutes... Ffuck!
Check out my site, the Bismuth Heart | My Twitter
D&D, and it's various iterations, are about killing shit in an underground maze. You can give your character motivations, have touching roleplaying moments, etc, but the game is so mired in math and stats that it's hard to ignore it for very long. None of the roleplaying stuff makes it into the character creation process beyond playing these archetypes of "Rogue", "Wizard", "Barbarian" etc. Of course, it can, but that doesn't mean it does.
Now, take a game like Burning Wheel. This is a game that does not encourage dungeon crawling. You could still do it, but the focus is on creating characters with motivations, history, and instincts.
thanks!
"tender is the gengar"
"invisible gengar"
"gengars and lovers"
"the gengar and the fury"
"the great gengar"
"brave new gengar"
"i, gengar"
"from gengar to eternity"
and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
my problems are three-fold.
1. Too many status effects to keep track of and what they all fucking mean, especially when most of the party has Affliction powers that do different things.
2. The game is WAY too arbitrary on when you are rolling dice with a bonus vs. when your bonus is a flat value someone else is rolling against in combat. It should either be one or the other, not both based on contrivances.
3. The Toughness mechanic makes fights take too long.
GET THIS MAN A JOB ASSIGNING TITLES TO EPISODES OF CARTOONS
tell me you wouldn't read that shiet
ghastly or haunter?!?!?!11
and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
That's like the murloc game WoWers play in /2.
Check out my site, the Bismuth Heart | My Twitter
I always enjoyed Aberrant as far as superhero RPGs are concerned. Rolling a massive 15d10 really makes your character feel powerful.
I actually don't care for that one because it really only works for MMOs and seems to be putting the cart before the horse - in other words, they took the design goals of MMOs and said, "There's a type of player that likes each of these design goals." Well, duh.
I prefer Wizards' psychographic profiles (Johnny, Timmy, Spike, Lorthos, Melvin). I think they are much more generalizable to other game types.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
sublime
and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
Later, [chat]
It's eerily similar to the merloc WoW spam chat game, but I'm down:
"moby gengar"
"to kill a gengar"
"slaughterhouse gengar"
"gone with the gengar"