There is a difference between systems designed for rollplaying and roleplaying. You can disagree, but you would be wrong.
D&D, and it's various iterations, are about killing shit in an underground maze. You can give your character motivations, have touching roleplaying moments, etc, but the game is so mired in math and stats that it's hard to ignore it for very long.
Now, take a game like Burning Wheel. This is a game that does not encourage dungeon crawling. You could still do it, but the focus is on creating characters with motivations, history, and instincts. None of that is worked into the character creation process of D&D.
That has nothing to do with some invisible "rollplaying/roleplaying" dichotomy.
Those are two different styles of games, and using one style of rules to play the other style of game is sub-optimal, although probably do-able?
Point is, the "rollplayer/roleplayer" terminology exists to denigrate people who like games you don't like, and that's the only way it gets used. It's stupid. I don't give a shit that you can say "But some games are more about points and tables, and other games are more about sitting around a table talking!"
That doesn't matter. It's people acting like uppity dickfucks about who likes what that grinds my gears. For example, the idea that the two things are mutually exclusive and if a person is building a mechanically optimal character for the system and campaign they can't also be good at roleplaying that character can suck ten dicks for nine dollars.
Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
Sometimes I'm retarded.
I was feeling a bit uncomfortably warm this morning and I know that if I turn on the A/C, even a little, one of the women that works here will just turn it off because as long as they're comfortable, everyone else can go fuck themselves. Anyway, I missed breakfast so on my break I went down to get a bagel and I got a mocha while I was in the coffee shop.
He had this awesome ability whereby he could not only pickpocket, but he could also search his own pockets. And we found a chart of items I could search for in my own pockets such as string, mice, etc. But to keep things interesting my friends foolishly added “magic items” to the list.
So, basically every action I took was searching my own pockets trying to find an awesome magic item.
DM: The skeletal mages slowly advance towards you, their hands surrounded in deadly flames. What do you do?
Friend 1: I get into defensive stance and grip my axe.
Friend 2: I ready my bow.
Friend 3: I prepare a healing spell.
_J_: I search my pockets for that magical dagger of skeletal mage killing I swore I had.
Friend 1, 2, and 3: God damn it.
Wasn't there a game mechanic wherein an item you tried to equip or find always had some % chance of having been stolen by the kender without you noticing?
There is a difference between systems designed for rollplaying and roleplaying. You can disagree, but you would be wrong.
D&D, and it's various iterations, are about killing shit in an underground maze. You can give your character motivations, have touching roleplaying moments, etc, but the game is so mired in math and stats that it's hard to ignore it for very long.
Now, take a game like Burning Wheel. This is a game that does not encourage dungeon crawling. You could still do it, but the focus is on creating characters with motivations, history, and instincts. None of that is worked into the character creation process of D&D.
That has nothing to do with some invisible "rollplaying/roleplaying" dichotomy.
Those are two different styles of games, and using one style of rules to play the other style of game is sub-optimal, although probably do-able?
Point is, the "rollplayer/roleplayer" terminology exists to denigrate people who like games you don't like, and that's the only way it gets used. It's stupid. I don't give a shit that you can say "But some games are more about points and tables, and other games are more about sitting around a table talking!"
That doesn't matter. It's people acting like uppity dickfucks about who likes what that grinds my gears. For example, the idea that the two things are mutually exclusive and if a person is building a mechanically optimal character for the system and campaign they can't also be good at roleplaying that character can suck ten dicks for nine dollars.
I understand the typical application of the terms. I'm not interested in telling people how to play their games. That being said, certain elements of design tend to encourage one style of play over the other. Of course, you can go against the grain, so to speak, and play a RP intensive game using D&D's rules. It is not, however, the optimal system for it.
the candidate for whom I volunteered in 2009 has a law office, but no website
I wonder if there's any point asking him for a job, since I seem to recall him having a receptionist and such (and thus not really needing anyone else)
What is that game theory called, that breaks players down into Explorer, Socializer, Achiever, Killer?
I actually don't care for that one because it really only works for MMOs and seems to be putting the cart before the horse - in other words, they took the design goals of MMOs and said, "There's a type of player that likes each of these design goals." Well, duh.
I prefer Wizards' psychographic profiles (Johnny, Timmy, Spike, Lorthos, Melvin). I think they are much more generalizable to other game types.
The gf and I started watching Twin Peaks a couple of nights ago. For some reason I wasn't expecting it to get weird so quickly, but I probably should have been.
What is that game theory called, that breaks players down into Explorer, Socializer, Achiever, Killer?
I actually don't care for that one because it really only works for MMOs and seems to be putting the cart before the horse - in other words, they took the design goals of MMOs and said, "There's a type of player that likes each of these design goals." Well, duh.
I prefer Wizards' psychographic profiles (Johnny, Timmy, Spike, Lorthos, Melvin). I think they are much more generalizable to other game types.
the 4e DMG has a pretty insightful chapter on RPG gamer types (based on Robin Laws' work) and how to cater to them effectively and defuse conflicts that arise. it acknowledges, for instance, the Lurker, the dude or lady who is largely there because their friends are rather than because they want to play D&D, and has some good tips for how to keep them engaged while recognizing that their engagement likely has a ceiling.
naturally this chapter was angrily called out by many reviewers as being stupid new-school hippie gay bullshit
the candidate for whom I volunteered in 2009 has a law office, but no website
I wonder if there's any point asking him for a job, since I seem to recall him having a receptionist and such (and thus not really needing anyone else)
My young Carrot, you have much to learn. The answer to this question is always yes. Even, if he / she / it is not hiring, they may know somebody who is.
I am setting up the grandest experiment. Ending my undergrad career with a bang. Gonna have so many numbers. Hope it works. If it doesn't, no big, but I really hope so.
The gf and I started watching Twin Peaks a couple of nights ago. For some reason I wasn't expecting it to get weird so quickly, but I probably should have been.
It gets weirder.
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ThomamelasOnly one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered Userregular
Well, that's largely because time is the most relevant independent variable in MMOs.
Everything in an MMO is dependent upon real-time. Your mana regenerates in real-time, your abilities refresh in real-time, enemies change forms in real-time, etc.
Real-time isn't relevant to PnP RPGs.
But yeah I agree that MMO theorycrafting tends to be more complicated then PnP theorycrafting.... but on the other hand, I remember sitting down and making probability graphs of common Shadowrun dice rolls so I could get a sense of how the numbers added up.
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
the 4e DMG has a pretty insightful chapter on RPG gamer types (based on Robin Laws' work) and how to cater to them effectively and defuse conflicts that arise. it acknowledges, for instance, the Lurker, the dude or lady who is largely there because their friends are rather than because they want to play D&D, and has some good tips for how to keep them engaged while recognizing that their engagement likely has a ceiling.
naturally this chapter was angrily called out by many reviewers as being stupid new-school hippie gay bullshit
That sounds interesting. I have a copy of the 4e DMG at home. I should read that.
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
I graduate in two weeks barring any massive fuck ups. Enjoy the cushion of a year because those final two weeks are like hell on earth.
o_O
Oh, Mim. You so dramatic.
I'm not dramatic. In my situation, I just have a massive onslaught of work ahead of me while also needing to set up appointments with school counselors and invite people to graduation without pissing people off.
Adding to the fact that I am increasingly becoming lazier and have been sleeping more than I ought to be because that's my way of escaping stress, it's hell on earth!
100% of the burning wheel fans I've encountered online have been insufferable dinguses about the game
less about Burning Wheel itself but more about how "narrativist" games are superior and fuck "rollplayers", and shit
now, I'm sure there's fans of Burning Wheel that aren't assholes
but much like the statement "I only hate militant vegetarians", if a person isn't a dipshit about being a fan of Burning Wheel it's unlikely I'll even know they like the game
when it gets brought up as a positive example of game design it's always by people being fuckheads
MMO theorycraft comes mostly from the very fine tuning dungeons in MMOs have.
If you have a suboptimal build, you may endanger the goal for the entire team.
Shit, during my hightier WoW days you'd actually play with mods that predicted your latency in order to autocancel the current cast and start the next, to do more damage.
I graduate too! I have this terrible anxiety that somehow I am going to fuck it all up and ruin my grad school plans. I don't think I'm anywhere close to that but I feel so terrified.
I graduate too! I have this terrible anxiety that somehow I am going to fuck it all up and ruin my grad school plans. I don't think I'm anywhere close to that but I feel so terrified.
My mom wants me to go to grad school. I will only go if I find something I can really sink my teeth into and not a second before.
Posts
That has nothing to do with some invisible "rollplaying/roleplaying" dichotomy.
Those are two different styles of games, and using one style of rules to play the other style of game is sub-optimal, although probably do-able?
Point is, the "rollplayer/roleplayer" terminology exists to denigrate people who like games you don't like, and that's the only way it gets used. It's stupid. I don't give a shit that you can say "But some games are more about points and tables, and other games are more about sitting around a table talking!"
That doesn't matter. It's people acting like uppity dickfucks about who likes what that grinds my gears. For example, the idea that the two things are mutually exclusive and if a person is building a mechanically optimal character for the system and campaign they can't also be good at roleplaying that character can suck ten dicks for nine dollars.
whoa
I was feeling a bit uncomfortably warm this morning and I know that if I turn on the A/C, even a little, one of the women that works here will just turn it off because as long as they're comfortable, everyone else can go fuck themselves. Anyway, I missed breakfast so on my break I went down to get a bagel and I got a mocha while I was in the coffee shop.
Yeah, a hot drink. Good idea you moron.
Many an AD fan have ended up on an FBI watchlist after they googled that particular phrase.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LF0MilNDV1I
#highfunctioningalcoholic
I will give no congrats until you graduate. But I am proud of you.
Unless you are going to be a useless Philosophy major!
Wasn't there a game mechanic wherein an item you tried to equip or find always had some % chance of having been stolen by the kender without you noticing?
Jesus fucking Christ
I understand the typical application of the terms. I'm not interested in telling people how to play their games. That being said, certain elements of design tend to encourage one style of play over the other. Of course, you can go against the grain, so to speak, and play a RP intensive game using D&D's rules. It is not, however, the optimal system for it.
the candidate for whom I volunteered in 2009 has a law office, but no website
I wonder if there's any point asking him for a job, since I seem to recall him having a receptionist and such (and thus not really needing anyone else)
I graduate in two weeks barring any massive fuck ups. Enjoy the cushion of a year because those final two weeks are like hell on earth.
Have you played editions prior to 4?
AD&D, 3, and 3.5 were heavier on math than 4.
I wouldn't consider them oppressively math-heavy compared to some other systems but they were mathier than 4.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Linky to this?
gotta keep in mind bro
D&D came out back in a day when shit like video games didn't exist
D&D players ain't got shit on MMORPG players nowadays
google the word "theorycraft" if you want an example
or of course, the classic MMORPG term: "DPS"
Damage Per Second
that's how granular MMO nerds get: they gotta know, to the second, how optimal their damage output is.
compared to that shit, D&D is kid-time fun adventure
the 4e DMG has a pretty insightful chapter on RPG gamer types (based on Robin Laws' work) and how to cater to them effectively and defuse conflicts that arise. it acknowledges, for instance, the Lurker, the dude or lady who is largely there because their friends are rather than because they want to play D&D, and has some good tips for how to keep them engaged while recognizing that their engagement likely has a ceiling.
naturally this chapter was angrily called out by many reviewers as being stupid new-school hippie gay bullshit
My young Carrot, you have much to learn. The answer to this question is always yes. Even, if he / she / it is not hiring, they may know somebody who is.
Good luck!
Since I say this in my head every day, I am stealing it for my sig. Gracias.
So basically, the real die-hard fans are idiots who ruin things for casuals.
Sounds about right.
o_O
Oh, Mim. You so dramatic.
It gets weirder.
You've never sat down and simulated average damage per round.
Everything in an MMO is dependent upon real-time. Your mana regenerates in real-time, your abilities refresh in real-time, enemies change forms in real-time, etc.
Real-time isn't relevant to PnP RPGs.
But yeah I agree that MMO theorycrafting tends to be more complicated then PnP theorycrafting.... but on the other hand, I remember sitting down and making probability graphs of common Shadowrun dice rolls so I could get a sense of how the numbers added up.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Did you know: the guy who did the music for Arrested Development also did the music for Northern Exposure.
no i haven't! it is not really something that any of my friends talk about.
sometimes when you guys talk about tabletop games it's like you're all ashamed of what you do behind closed doors.
That sounds interesting. I have a copy of the 4e DMG at home. I should read that.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
I'm not dramatic. In my situation, I just have a massive onslaught of work ahead of me while also needing to set up appointments with school counselors and invite people to graduation without pissing people off.
Adding to the fact that I am increasingly becoming lazier and have been sleeping more than I ought to be because that's my way of escaping stress, it's hell on earth!
less about Burning Wheel itself but more about how "narrativist" games are superior and fuck "rollplayers", and shit
now, I'm sure there's fans of Burning Wheel that aren't assholes
but much like the statement "I only hate militant vegetarians", if a person isn't a dipshit about being a fan of Burning Wheel it's unlikely I'll even know they like the game
when it gets brought up as a positive example of game design it's always by people being fuckheads
that's been my experience
If you have a suboptimal build, you may endanger the goal for the entire team.
Shit, during my hightier WoW days you'd actually play with mods that predicted your latency in order to autocancel the current cast and start the next, to do more damage.
I graduate too! I have this terrible anxiety that somehow I am going to fuck it all up and ruin my grad school plans. I don't think I'm anywhere close to that but I feel so terrified.
Just give me my pills so I can stop failing at life, goddammit.
My mom wants me to go to grad school. I will only go if I find something I can really sink my teeth into and not a second before.
Until then, gotta find a job.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
http://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/159427/post-time-travel#Item_1