I agree with you on grid combat. I think that's the one aspect of 4th edition that I dislike the most; everything is built around placing little miniatures on a grid.
Guild Wars 2 feels like it's designed entirely for the late 20s-early 30s gamers that grew up with MMOs but now have jobs and shit and has all these quality of life things and generally slaughters a whole herd of holy MMO cows.
Well, slaughtering holy MMO cows was pretty much their raison d'être.
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
Donkey KongPutting Nintendo out of business with AI nipsRegistered Userregular
The best part of Diamond Age on audiobook is that I squeal like a little girl when a new character starts to narrate. The narrator does amazing accents and will jump from Yorkshire to London to RP to Brooklyn to Texas in as many lines.
Thousands of hot, local singles are waiting to play at bubbulon.com.
And Pony, some of the fight slowness last night was neophyte characters who were holding back against a group of idiots.
some of it, like the Toughness issue, comes up in all M&M games
the Toughness mechanic is REALLY WONKY and needs to be looked at with a hard eye
Toughness makes sense in a four color campaign where your gonna be punching people through buildings and it doesn't even really faze the character. For more gritty campaigns the solution I'd look at is making the toughness save Attack PL + 20 rather then +15. It means high toughness characters will take bruises more often but shrug off dazes and stuns. And low toughness characters will splatter if the dice don't go their way.
so, a solution I came up with to some of my problems with the Toughness mechanics and also "roll wonkyness" (SCIENTIFIC TERM DO NOT STEAL) is to do it like this:
You don't roll toughness or defenses. Those are flat +10 values.
When someone attacks you, they make ONE 1d20 roll. They add their attack bonus to that roll result to determine if they hit you (by comparing it against your Dodge/Parry), and then they add their damage bonus to see if they hurt you, and if so by how much (comparing it against your Toughness).
When it's an attack that has no attack roll normally (like a Fort-based Affliction), the attacker is STILL rolling against the respective defense of the person they're going against.
It makes it uniform, simple, and makes every attack resolved with one dice roll per thing, always
what do you think.
I'm slightly confused. So every character has a flat toughness of +10? Or is it toughness +10?
Toughness +10
take all your defenses (Parry, Dodge, Fort, Will, and Toughness) and add +10 to them, that's the DC people have to roll against. Obviously, on your character sheet, keep your bonuses like they are because those bonuses get screwed with, but in combat, when someone is rolling to hit your Parry defense, they're rolling against your Parry bonus + 10
Traveling 30m just so you could join up with a group.
Reading your spell book.
Shouting LFG.
Idiots asking my bard for SoW.
Every class that wasn't bard.
Running from Qeynos to Kelethin
Forgetting to get a bind
Falling out of a tree
Waiting for the boat back to Freeport for 30 mins from the Sister Isle after hunting the Cyclops, getting kicked while zoning, waiting another 30 minutes...
How about they make an MMO without a leveling system. They give you a hundred points at the start and then you're off to raid boss hideouts and loot dungeons within the first hour.
And Pony, some of the fight slowness last night was neophyte characters who were holding back against a group of idiots.
some of it, like the Toughness issue, comes up in all M&M games
the Toughness mechanic is REALLY WONKY and needs to be looked at with a hard eye
Toughness makes sense in a four color campaign where your gonna be punching people through buildings and it doesn't even really faze the character. For more gritty campaigns the solution I'd look at is making the toughness save Attack PL + 20 rather then +15. It means high toughness characters will take bruises more often but shrug off dazes and stuns. And low toughness characters will splatter if the dice don't go their way.
so, a solution I came up with to some of my problems with the Toughness mechanics and also "roll wonkyness" (SCIENTIFIC TERM DO NOT STEAL) is to do it like this:
You don't roll toughness or defenses. Those are flat +10 values.
When someone attacks you, they make ONE 1d20 roll. They add their attack bonus to that roll result to determine if they hit you (by comparing it against your Dodge/Parry), and then they add their damage bonus to see if they hurt you, and if so by how much (comparing it against your Toughness).
When it's an attack that has no attack roll normally (like a Fort-based Affliction), the attacker is STILL rolling against the respective defense of the person they're going against.
It makes it uniform, simple, and makes every attack resolved with one dice roll per thing, always
what do you think.
I'm slightly confused. So every character has a flat toughness of +10? Or is it toughness +10?
Toughness +10
take all your defenses (Parry, Dodge, Fort, Will, and Toughness) and add +10 to them, that's the DC people have to roll against. Obviously, on your character sheet, keep your bonuses like they are because those bonuses get screwed with, but in combat, when someone is rolling to hit your Parry defense, they're rolling against your Parry bonus + 10
I'm gonna need to chew on it, but my first reaction is that players are really, really gonna have to focus on keeping their defenses at the PL. The current system has some slack where you can be a couple of points shy of PL for say Fort and still have a decent chance of making a save. I'd need to do the math to be sure but I think if you're less then PL for defenses you're fucked. And what about area effect saves/dodge checks?
So who was in charge of telling me that The Diamond Age is fucking heartbreaking?
YOU FAILED IN YOUR DUTIES.
when you mentioned you were reading that the other day I actually wrote most of a reply in warning. But it seemed too spoilery so I didn't post it.
But yeah. Even for an author famed for his inability to finish a story, Diamond Age falls apart at the end.
The decision for the main character to go to China and work a shitty job in a sketchy ass brothel has to rank among the most heinious of literary crimes. Makes no fucking sense at all.
MMO theorycraft comes mostly from the very fine tuning dungeons in MMOs have.
If you have a suboptimal build, you may endanger the goal for the entire team.
Shit, during my hightier WoW days you'd actually play with mods that predicted your latency in order to autocancel the current cast and start the next, to do more damage.
Back in my EQ days, we had to cast all of our spells by hand and remember when spells were going to wear off. None of this addon nonsense. I hear you guys don't even lose experience for dying anymore either.
when you wanted to regen mana you'd actually have to read your spell book
god everything about EQ was awful
and every time they made it better
oh the neckbeards
the neckbeards would wail
and rend their garments
A while back at board game night there were a couple of people in the store going on about how great EQ was and MMOs these days are all just "dumbed down" and too accessable to the unwashed masses.
Then they segued into how much more they liked Pathfinder than 4th ed.
Attacked by tweeeeeeees!
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ThomamelasOnly one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered Userregular
Right, so how would you like to play Shadowrun? *hides the new map grind I got*
grids are the worst
Depends on the campaign style. Using Shadowrun as an example. If the team is an elite group of mercs that live, eat and breath tactics? Give me a grid. If we're a group of Ocean's 11 style thieves then leave the grid at home.
I am a fan for dungeon crawls, or shooty board games like Gears of War. All moving dudes and positioning and AOEing and stuff.
Certainly for Polaris or something it would not be good.
Grids and hexes allow having plastic mans and painting them while drinking beers and showing off your masterful use of a sloppy ink wash over basic dry brushing. I like that part!
Ultimately I am a fanboy for FATE splitting the difference between vague talk only and graph paper only.
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Nova_CI have the needThe need for speedRegistered Userregular
I watched some developer talk video that was linked over in the Diablo 3 thread and I really like their design philosophy for the game.
There was also a Q/A session linked over there and one of the questions was "Seriously guys, now Im really curious. What the hell were you trying to do in D2 if you werent seeing which builds could make it to 99?" The answer was, "Entertainment. Play a game, have some fun, waste some time. Playing video games isn't serious business for everyone."
And Pony, some of the fight slowness last night was neophyte characters who were holding back against a group of idiots.
some of it, like the Toughness issue, comes up in all M&M games
the Toughness mechanic is REALLY WONKY and needs to be looked at with a hard eye
Toughness makes sense in a four color campaign where your gonna be punching people through buildings and it doesn't even really faze the character. For more gritty campaigns the solution I'd look at is making the toughness save Attack PL + 20 rather then +15. It means high toughness characters will take bruises more often but shrug off dazes and stuns. And low toughness characters will splatter if the dice don't go their way.
so, a solution I came up with to some of my problems with the Toughness mechanics and also "roll wonkyness" (SCIENTIFIC TERM DO NOT STEAL) is to do it like this:
You don't roll toughness or defenses. Those are flat +10 values.
When someone attacks you, they make ONE 1d20 roll. They add their attack bonus to that roll result to determine if they hit you (by comparing it against your Dodge/Parry), and then they add their damage bonus to see if they hurt you, and if so by how much (comparing it against your Toughness).
When it's an attack that has no attack roll normally (like a Fort-based Affliction), the attacker is STILL rolling against the respective defense of the person they're going against.
It makes it uniform, simple, and makes every attack resolved with one dice roll per thing, always
what do you think.
I'm slightly confused. So every character has a flat toughness of +10? Or is it toughness +10?
Toughness +10
take all your defenses (Parry, Dodge, Fort, Will, and Toughness) and add +10 to them, that's the DC people have to roll against. Obviously, on your character sheet, keep your bonuses like they are because those bonuses get screwed with, but in combat, when someone is rolling to hit your Parry defense, they're rolling against your Parry bonus + 10
I'm gonna need to chew on it, but my first reaction is that players are really, really gonna have to focus on keeping their defenses at the PL. The current system has some slack where you can be a couple of points shy of PL for say Fort and still have a decent chance of making a save. I'd need to do the math to be sure but I think if you're less then PL for defenses you're fucked. And what about area effect saves/dodge checks?
fuck it
i give up
fully none of what i'm explaining is getting through to you
i fucking give up
i have to seriously consider what i am doing and why i am bothering anymore
How about they make an MMO without a leveling system. They give you a hundred points at the start and then you're off to raid boss hideouts and loot dungeons within the first hour.
But then there would be no psychology and you'd have to make the gameplay actually fun!
Posts
Right, so how would you like to play Shadowrun? *hides the new map grind I got*
Oh god, bounce away my friends, hurry! Bounce here and there! Everywhere!
I agree with you on grid combat. I think that's the one aspect of 4th edition that I dislike the most; everything is built around placing little miniatures on a grid.
yesssssssssssssssssssss
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Time does fly, yo!
I have one year left on a five year program now and I studied at another university-esque school for two years before that.
Feels like yesterday I started the education I'm on right now. Getting older fucks with the time perception or something.
Chastity belt.
Alternatively, how so?
Running from Qeynos to Kelethin
Forgetting to get a bind
Falling out of a tree
grids are the worst
it was the worst
Well, slaughtering holy MMO cows was pretty much their raison d'être.
Toughness +10
take all your defenses (Parry, Dodge, Fort, Will, and Toughness) and add +10 to them, that's the DC people have to roll against. Obviously, on your character sheet, keep your bonuses like they are because those bonuses get screwed with, but in combat, when someone is rolling to hit your Parry defense, they're rolling against your Parry bonus + 10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNEX5ITTbJE
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Me. Me. Me. I want to play Shadowrun. I'll even tolerate your grids. I don't get enough opportunity to play Shadowrun.
Waiting for the boat back to Freeport for 30 mins from the Sister Isle after hunting the Cyclops, getting kicked while zoning, waiting another 30 minutes...
Fansy was my hero.
lol keyboard turner
I'm gonna need to chew on it, but my first reaction is that players are really, really gonna have to focus on keeping their defenses at the PL. The current system has some slack where you can be a couple of points shy of PL for say Fort and still have a decent chance of making a save. I'd need to do the math to be sure but I think if you're less then PL for defenses you're fucked. And what about area effect saves/dodge checks?
when you mentioned you were reading that the other day I actually wrote most of a reply in warning. But it seemed too spoilery so I didn't post it.
But yeah. Even for an author famed for his inability to finish a story, Diamond Age falls apart at the end.
hi5
My first character was a ranger. It was awful.
Bards were civilization.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Did you miss the part where he was kiting like 20 guards?
It's easy to miss, it only happens for two whole minutes.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
A while back at board game night there were a couple of people in the store going on about how great EQ was and MMOs these days are all just "dumbed down" and too accessable to the unwashed masses.
Then they segued into how much more they liked Pathfinder than 4th ed.
Depends on the campaign style. Using Shadowrun as an example. If the team is an elite group of mercs that live, eat and breath tactics? Give me a grid. If we're a group of Ocean's 11 style thieves then leave the grid at home.
I am a fan for dungeon crawls, or shooty board games like Gears of War. All moving dudes and positioning and AOEing and stuff.
Certainly for Polaris or something it would not be good.
Grids and hexes allow having plastic mans and painting them while drinking beers and showing off your masterful use of a sloppy ink wash over basic dry brushing. I like that part!
Ultimately I am a fanboy for FATE splitting the difference between vague talk only and graph paper only.
High adventure that's beyond compare!
There was also a Q/A session linked over there and one of the questions was "Seriously guys, now Im really curious. What the hell were you trying to do in D2 if you werent seeing which builds could make it to 99?" The answer was, "Entertainment. Play a game, have some fun, waste some time. Playing video games isn't serious business for everyone."
So awesome.
These two months of college have gone away like whoosh definitely.
I just don't wanna do college really. I want to work and buy an apartment and stuffs!
And they say romance is dead ...
fuck it
i give up
fully none of what i'm explaining is getting through to you
i fucking give up
i have to seriously consider what i am doing and why i am bothering anymore