The Fire Nation is a monarchy. Power is inherited with firstborn sons taking priority. Since bending is partially genetic, that means a lot of the Royal Family will be benders. Nothing says bending is a requirement for the throne. Hell, we don't even know if Lu Ten was a bender or not.
Yeah, actually. The avatar is highly respected, and not just cause she can shoot rocks and fireballs.
What are the Equalists if not a glorified chi-blocking gang?
We have seen no economic imbalance between benders and non-benders. We've seen plenty of rich non-benders and poor benders, and the other way around. We have seen high-ranking military non-benders. Everybody seemed to have worked this stuff out until Amon decided there was a problem.
I believe everybody else has shown that the position of Firelord requires/required being a Firebender.
He might be wrong (he's the villain after all!), but he's not entirely wrong. Like any charismatic leader before him he's exploiting an already existing schism to his advantage. There's a fancy word of that in political science (the part that describes how political parties rise and fall). I just can't remember it.
Honestly. I think the more interesting option is if Amon is right. Well intentioned extremists are the best extremists (but still villains). It also makes sense given the context. This is after all the Avatar version of the 1920s, a politically turbulent time (which in the real world featured commies and various fascist groups as the most prominent sources for political unrest).
"The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
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SwissLionWe are beside ourselves!Registered Userregular
If his viewpoint could be shot down by pointing to a bunch of obvious examples (Which you have mainly come up with by saying "Well you can't say for sure that they ARE benders") it's not going to be very interesting.
Apart from the exception that is Sato there really is a lot of Bender Privelege, which is different from oppression.
If his viewpoint could be shot down by pointing to a bunch of obvious examples (Which you have mainly come up with by saying "Well you can't say for sure that they ARE benders") it's not going to be very interesting.
Apart from the exception that is Sato there really is a lot of Bender Privelege, which is different from oppression.
2/3 of the extant nations in the first series were led by non-benders. There were tons of non-bending characters on equal footing with other benders. The entire Southern Tribe including Sokka with the sole exception of Katara, Northern Chief, Earth King, Yu Yan Archers, Kyoshi Warriors including Suki, Ty Lee, Mai, Li and Lo, Zuko's mom, Piandao, Jet and his gang, Toph's parents, June, Mechanist and his followers, etc. etc.
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KwoaruConfident SmirkFlawless Golden PecsRegistered Userregular
Amon opinions
1) He is a bad guy doing a bad thing and he should under no circumstances be a "good" guy
2) He would be more interesting if he is at least a little bit earnest about his speech and isn't just making a play for power
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AthenorBattle Hardened OptimistThe Skies of HiigaraRegistered Userregular
Regarding Korra.. In season 2...
I hope she goes through most, if not all the season without her bending. At all.
I hope she goes through most, if not all the season without her bending. At all.
I'm not sure why this would be the case because
I'm almost entirely sure that they already said each season would be it's own contained conflict, so amon and bending removal is gonna be wrapped up by the end of season one
Is saying that a lot of cool characters from the last series were non-benders like saying I'm not racist because I have black friends
Or that racism is over because we have a black president
actually my argument is that bender-ism never existed in the first place
Amon made it up
But you're basing that on a handful of people out of an entire world population?
At best he made it up the same way we have things like the myth of the welfare queen, or conspiracy theories about secret Muslims/Communists/whatever trying to take over the country
But given the crowd at that rally, a lot of people certainly think there is a problem
It's not unreasonable to think that stratification has intensified in the past decades
being forced to do dangerous jobs for ass pay for the fat cat non-bender elite
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KwoaruConfident SmirkFlawless Golden PecsRegistered Userregular
-Tal wants the bending version of the Klan
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SwissLionWe are beside ourselves!Registered Userregular
edited May 2012
The lightning bending example is really flawed.
Saying that benders are doing this dirty job for Non-benders (is it ever stated the power stations are owned by non-benders, if you're thinking about Sato all I can find on him says he is all about the cars) proves that that there is no disparity is really silly.
Every job exclusively done by benders, no matter how dangerous or tedious, means an entire profession that non-benders are completely cut off from.
Is saying that a lot of cool characters from the last series were non-benders like saying I'm not racist because I have black friends
Or that racism is over because we have a black president
actually my argument is that bender-ism never existed in the first place
Amon made it up
But you're basing that on a handful of people out of an entire world population?
At best he made it up the same way we have things like the myth of the welfare queen, or conspiracy theories about secret Muslims/Communists/whatever trying to take over the country
But given the crowd at that rally, a lot of people certainly think there is a problem
It's not unreasonable to think that stratification has intensified in the past decades
the bolded would be fair if there were stronger examples of "bender privilege" that weren't just inferences
we're still early in Korra so maybe Amon's argument will be supported later on, but so far benders and non-benders seem to get along as well as they did in Avatar, and exist along varied socioeconomic lines just like they did in Avatar
charismatic people have gotten supporters for bad ideas plenty of times in history, so I don't think the crowd alone is a good support for Amon's argument. If he was right, we'd see more non/bender conflict outside of Equalist fights. guys losing their jobs to benders and such. again, might happen later in the series.
I'm thinking there has been a growing inequality between benders and non-benders and it'll be up to the protagonists to show the people of Republic City that there are ways to solve the issue that don't end in violence or the wiping-out of element-bending.
KorKnown to detonate from time to timeRegistered Userregular
As much as I don't want to believe that Amon is doing the same kind of Spirit stuff that we saw in the first series, I did notice something.
Having now watched the entire first series for the fifth time time (and this time within about 15 days) I noticed something in the finale.
Ozai is literally right next to Aang, conscious, when Aang specifically describes how he learned Spirit-Bending. Aang says allowed how it was taught to him by the Giant Lion Turtle. So really, Ozai should have this information. What he did with it I have no idea, but the fact remains that Aang shared that information with Sokka, Suki, Toph, and Ozai.
As much as I don't want to believe that Amon is doing the same kind of Spirit stuff that we saw in the first series, I did notice something.
Having now watched the entire first series for the fifth time time (and this time within about 15 days) I noticed something in the finale.
Ozai is literally right next to Aang, conscious, when Aang specifically describes how he learned Spirit-Bending. Aang says allowed how it was taught to him by the Giant Lion Turtle. So really, Ozai should have this information. What he did with it I have no idea, but the fact remains that Aang shared that information with Sokka, Suki, Toph, and Ozai.
So?
Telling people something doesn't mean they'll magically learn how to do it.
I have a podcast now. It's about video games and anime!Find it here.
As much as I don't want to believe that Amon is doing the same kind of Spirit stuff that we saw in the first series, I did notice something.
Having now watched the entire first series for the fifth time time (and this time within about 15 days) I noticed something in the finale.
Ozai is literally right next to Aang, conscious, when Aang specifically describes how he learned Spirit-Bending. Aang says allowed how it was taught to him by the Giant Lion Turtle. So really, Ozai should have this information. What he did with it I have no idea, but the fact remains that Aang shared that information with Sokka, Suki, Toph, and Ozai.
So?
Telling people something doesn't mean they'll magically learn how to do it.
I'm not saying Ozai learned how to do it, but he now knows where to look, and can share that information. Give some idealist a goal and it wouldn't be impossible to find.
As much as I don't want to believe that Amon is doing the same kind of Spirit stuff that we saw in the first series, I did notice something.
Having now watched the entire first series for the fifth time time (and this time within about 15 days) I noticed something in the finale.
Ozai is literally right next to Aang, conscious, when Aang specifically describes how he learned Spirit-Bending. Aang says allowed how it was taught to him by the Giant Lion Turtle. So really, Ozai should have this information. What he did with it I have no idea, but the fact remains that Aang shared that information with Sokka, Suki, Toph, and Ozai.
So?
Telling people something doesn't mean they'll magically learn how to do it.
I'm not saying Ozai learned how to do it, but he now knows where to look, and can share that information. Give some idealist a goal and it wouldn't be impossible to find.
It IS impossible to find. The turtle is impossible to track and sentient. I don't think he's teaching anyone anything unless he wants to.
I have a podcast now. It's about video games and anime!Find it here.
Also the 100 year long war with the fire nation that resulted in the extinction of one civilization and the near extinction of another would have never happened if bending weren't a thing
"The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
See, this is why I want Korra to basically make a new elected council that actually represents Republic city. Because that would be beating Amon at his own game.
we have regularly seen benders menacing non-benders
it is a recurring theme on the show
we have very rarely seen the opposite
most of these examples are Equalist-related, who menace benders plenty
the only one I can remember that isn't is the Triads hassling that shopkeeper, but that's just good old fashioned gangs abusing the weak and nothing specific to benders
Also the 100 year long war with the fire nation that resulted in the extinction of one civilization and the near extinction of another would have never happened if bending weren't a thing
it would have happened with swords and cannons instead
Some of them might have bending abilities. Just no combat training.
"The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
man it's almost like you're saying that bending is this world's analogue of power and oppression, whether it be in the hands of common thugs or armies
so
you agree?
it is the conflation of bending and power that is the problem. bending does not automatically give you power
learning to bend takes as much effort as learning any other martial art takes, including chi blocking
which is why stuff like the chi-blocking lessons would be awesome if they weren't explicitly associated with a terrorist organization that wants to eliminate all bending
all of those people were exceptionally trained warriors
ty lee and mai learned their skills at the royal firebending academy for girls, probably not a lot of commoners in there
and sokka spent most of the series at a combat disadvantage until he got a few lessons from the greatest swordfighter in the world
these are not advantages available to common people
it is ridiculous to say that these three outliers invalidate the idea that benders have a huge advantage in combat and use it
Sokka had some training from the Kyoshi warriors as well.
That didn't help much though. Mainly because his adversaries after that tended to be "super bad ass warriors" (like Azulas Angels, Combustion Man etc).
If we're going to demonstrate how weak non-bending is compared to bending. As the Blue Spirit Zuko kicked the ass of about a dozen fire warrior soldiers. Later in Zuko Alone he got his ass kicked by a single earthbending thug until he decided to go all "I am Prince Zuko of the fire nation Fear my wrath! RAAAR!".
"The western world sips from a poisonous cocktail: Polarisation, populism, protectionism and post-truth"
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
we have regularly seen benders menacing non-benders
it is a recurring theme on the show
we have very rarely seen the opposite
most of these examples are Equalist-related, who menace benders plenty
the only one I can remember that isn't is the Triads hassling that shopkeeper, but that's just good old fashioned gangs abusing the weak and nothing specific to benders
Also the 100 year long war with the fire nation that resulted in the extinction of one civilization and the near extinction of another would have never happened if bending weren't a thing
it would have happened with swords and cannons instead
The only reason the war broke out was because sozin's comet supercharged the firebenders
Posts
I believe everybody else has shown that the position of Firelord requires/required being a Firebender.
regardless, Amon is still wrong
But there probably is more then a little unfairness regarding Benders and non-benders.
Honestly. I think the more interesting option is if Amon is right. Well intentioned extremists are the best extremists (but still villains). It also makes sense given the context. This is after all the Avatar version of the 1920s, a politically turbulent time (which in the real world featured commies and various fascist groups as the most prominent sources for political unrest).
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
Apart from the exception that is Sato there really is a lot of Bender Privelege, which is different from oppression.
2) He would be more interesting if he is at least a little bit earnest about his speech and isn't just making a play for power
Or that racism is over because we have a black president
I'm not sure why this would be the case because
actually my argument is that bender-ism never existed in the first place
Amon made it up
You're wrong though
But you're basing that on a handful of people out of an entire world population?
At best he made it up the same way we have things like the myth of the welfare queen, or conspiracy theories about secret Muslims/Communists/whatever trying to take over the country
But given the crowd at that rally, a lot of people certainly think there is a problem
It's not unreasonable to think that stratification has intensified in the past decades
fighting for the rights of the oppressed benders
being forced to do dangerous jobs for ass pay for the fat cat non-bender elite
Saying that benders are doing this dirty job for Non-benders (is it ever stated the power stations are owned by non-benders, if you're thinking about Sato all I can find on him says he is all about the cars) proves that that there is no disparity is really silly.
Every job exclusively done by benders, no matter how dangerous or tedious, means an entire profession that non-benders are completely cut off from.
the bolded would be fair if there were stronger examples of "bender privilege" that weren't just inferences
we're still early in Korra so maybe Amon's argument will be supported later on, but so far benders and non-benders seem to get along as well as they did in Avatar, and exist along varied socioeconomic lines just like they did in Avatar
charismatic people have gotten supporters for bad ideas plenty of times in history, so I don't think the crowd alone is a good support for Amon's argument. If he was right, we'd see more non/bender conflict outside of Equalist fights. guys losing their jobs to benders and such. again, might happen later in the series.
come to me, ye huddled masses
you see, all of your problems are actually caused by benders
those big-nosed greedy benders
Having now watched the entire first series for the fifth time time (and this time within about 15 days) I noticed something in the finale.
Pokemon Safari - Sneasel, Pawniard, ????
So?
Telling people something doesn't mean they'll magically learn how to do it.
calling it: full of berserk-gas.
it is a recurring theme on the show
we have very rarely seen the opposite
I'm not saying Ozai learned how to do it, but he now knows where to look, and can share that information. Give some idealist a goal and it wouldn't be impossible to find.
Pokemon Safari - Sneasel, Pawniard, ????
It IS impossible to find. The turtle is impossible to track and sentient. I don't think he's teaching anyone anything unless he wants to.
cruising in the spirit world
http://www.audioentropy.com/
...and Trying to pick up lion-turtle ladies.
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
most of these examples are Equalist-related, who menace benders plenty
the only one I can remember that isn't is the Triads hassling that shopkeeper, but that's just good old fashioned gangs abusing the weak and nothing specific to benders
it would have happened with swords and cannons instead
with
their bending
the weak
who are weak because they have no bending
Some of them might have bending abilities. Just no combat training.
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
so
you agree?
no, he is weak because he's an old man
Sokka, Mai, Ty Lee have successfully fought against benders despite not being benders because they are not old people who don't know how to fight
ty lee and mai learned their skills at the royal firebending academy for girls, probably not a lot of commoners in there
and sokka spent most of the series at a combat disadvantage until he got a few lessons from the greatest swordfighter in the world
these are not advantages available to common people
it is ridiculous to say that these three outliers invalidate the idea that benders have a huge advantage in combat and use it
it is the conflation of bending and power that is the problem. bending does not automatically give you power
learning to bend takes as much effort as learning any other martial art takes, including chi blocking
which is why stuff like the chi-blocking lessons would be awesome if they weren't explicitly associated with a terrorist organization that wants to eliminate all bending
it's like you're saying hey this corporate executive works just as many hours and just as hard as this coal miner
it is not the same
Sokka had some training from the Kyoshi warriors as well.
That didn't help much though. Mainly because his adversaries after that tended to be "super bad ass warriors" (like Azulas Angels, Combustion Man etc).
If we're going to demonstrate how weak non-bending is compared to bending. As the Blue Spirit Zuko kicked the ass of about a dozen fire warrior soldiers. Later in Zuko Alone he got his ass kicked by a single earthbending thug until he decided to go all "I am Prince Zuko of the fire nation Fear my wrath! RAAAR!".
-Antje Jackelén, Archbishop of the Church of Sweden
The only reason the war broke out was because sozin's comet supercharged the firebenders
Ain't no comet that supercharges swords
http://www.audioentropy.com/