I find it hilarious that games like Republic, which honestly looks a bit like something a publisher may have wanted to publish perish and die on Kickstarter. Mean-while 2D turn based games, which are typically the plague to publishers are getting funded pretty easily. It's practically bizarro world at this point.
I'm pretty sure, although could be mistaken, that Republic had publisher support but not for an iOS launch. They were really pushing to be the first big budget phone game, which is a dubious goal. It's interesting that they've slid back.
Homogeneous distribution of your varieties of amuse-gueule
You make a promise to listen to backer input. You don't promise to follow their every whim and edict. As long as the Kickstarter devs remember this they'll be fine. People will always rant about unreasonable shit on the Internet and as always the best response is to ignore them.
Yeah, but this time the money gives their comments more weight, even though it shouldn't.
Basically, think of the entitlement of the average WoW player on how the game should be developed. And now imagine they thought of their monthly subscription as an investment rather then a cost.
It really isn't. It only gives them more weight if the developers are stupid enough to listen. The money has already changed hands and can't be handed back. They have a voice but zero power and can be easily ignored.
It really isn't. It only gives them more weight if the developers are stupid enough to listen. The money has already changed hands and can't be handed back. They have a voice but zero power and can be easily ignored.
It gives them more weight with the community, such as it is.
Imagine an alternative model though, where for $15 spent backing it, you get a copy of a game PLUS a 20% guaranteed rebate if the commercial sales profits top a certain amount. Why would I suggest this model? Well, market research tells you that when customers (or employees) are aware that there is a mutual benefit to performance, they automatically provide higher satisfaction feedback = better scores on metacritic (and the like), more word-of-mouth organic sales etc.
Risky, I guess, and not without controversy. But if you want your organisation or product to get a good rep then mutualisation of interest is the way forward.
It really isn't. It only gives them more weight if the developers are stupid enough to listen. The money has already changed hands and can't be handed back. They have a voice but zero power and can be easily ignored.
It gives them more weight with the community, such as it is.
It doesn't though. It again only makes them think they do.
Now the thing on the PA report where it proposes people become full on legal investors? That's the clusterfuck you're looking for.
Imagine an alternative model though, where for $15 spent backing it, you get a copy of a game PLUS a 20% guaranteed rebate if the commercial sales profits top a certain amount. Why would I suggest this model? Well, market research tells you that when customers (or employees) are aware that there is a mutual benefit to performance, they automatically provide higher satisfaction feedback = better scores on metacritic (and the like), more word-of-mouth organic sales etc.
Risky, I guess, and not without controversy. But if you want your organisation or product to get a good rep then mutualisation of interest is the way forward.
I can see that running afoul of all sorts of laws about investment and taxes and such.
There's a reason Kickstarter is very clear that "THIS IS NOT AN INVESTMENT".
It really isn't. It only gives them more weight if the developers are stupid enough to listen. The money has already changed hands and can't be handed back. They have a voice but zero power and can be easily ignored.
It gives them more weight with the community, such as it is.
It doesn't though. It again only makes them think they do.
Your 2 sentences contradict each other. Those people who backed the project make up at least some not insignificant portion of the community. And if they think it matters, then the community does too. It's tautological because they are one and the same to some degree.
Now you could say "Oh the devs will just ignore them". Which, you know, we hope. But that's still a community-relations clusterfuck waiting to happen. Or, according to the article from last page, already happening in some cases. That's exactly the kind of thing I was talking about.
And a community-relations clusterfuck is probably not what you want on your hands when funding /advertising/etc your game almost exclusively via community relations.
I can see that running afoul of all sorts of laws about investment and taxes and such.
There's a reason Kickstarter is very clear that "THIS IS NOT AN INVESTMENT".
You're probably right - I'm not sure how rebates work in this space, but they could well be classed as a payment of sorts. OK then, maybe some form of free DLC instead
No one can prove either way so we'll have to just disagree, but I think the loudest members may shit up the project forums but that's as far as it will go. A vast majority of backers will never even visit the forum, will only get the official Kickstarter email announcements and will be blissfully unaware of any 'controversy'.
I find it hilarious that games like Republic, which honestly looks a bit like something a publisher may have wanted to publish perish and die on Kickstarter. Mean-while 2D turn based games, which are typically the plague to publishers are getting funded pretty easily. It's practically bizarro world at this point.
I have no interest in Republic due to my lack of faith in Ryan Payton's ability to design a game (he was responsible for MGS Portable Ops' controls) but it sucks seeing its Kickstarter struggle to reach one fifth of their total. Their team have clearly put a lot of work in to get it to its current state and the idea that it could be for naught if the Kickstarter doesn't succeed is pretty brutal. Though I believe they've said that they'll continue to work on it even if the Kickstarter fails so it's not all doom and gloom but I can't imagine all Kickstarter projects are the same. Who knows if Starlight Inception will ever come out.
If someone didn't want to get in on the Larry Kickstarter because of it offering not much new you should reconsider. After reaching the goal they are now talking about adding additional, unique content.
So, here's the easier one: at the $550,000 level, we will be maxing out the game responses along the lines I suggested in my video update. Tons more jokes, tons more responses for clicking on screen features, dialogue trees, inventory-on-inventory messages, and more story! We’ll load every existing nook and cranny with extra content because, as Al pointed out to us, the original was “kinda thin” on that.
Now, here's the big one: at the $650,000 level, we're doing something that will change the face of Larry forever (if only!): we're adding a new location, new puzzles, and a new girl with her own storyline! Is this the infamous female character that Al was forced to cut from the original 1987 version of Leisure Suit Larry 1? Or am I just making that up entirely to add a sense of mystery? Your guess is as good as mine!
I wonder if Republique adding PC/Mac might hurt it in the long run, also. Consider: now that I have to make a choice between iOS or desktop computer, I'm inclined to pick neither because I don't know which is going to be the better version. It's a classic "wait for reviews / word of mouth" scenario for me.
I wonder if that's just me, or if there are more people in that bind now.
I wonder if Republique adding PC/Mac might hurt it in the long run, also. Consider: now that I have to make a choice between iOS or desktop computer, I'm inclined to pick neither because I don't know which is going to be the better version. It's a classic "wait for reviews / word of mouth" scenario for me.
I wonder if that's just me, or if there are more people in that bind now.
Actually, it got a big bump.
And some Touch Arcade writer is a fucking douche.
...A dispirited Ryan Payton, no doubt bewildered by the venomous response(by Hodapp), attempted to reach out to Hodapp and offered to fly to Chicago to demonstrate the game and prove that it was a real thing that they were working on. The reply? http://sadpanda.us/images/937222-O5FT084.png
I'm aware that they pretty much doubled their money the day they announced PC/Mac. But I wonder how many people won't contribute at all now, simply because they don't have the necessary information to pick a platform.
Man alive, please tell me I am not the only person who believes that by donating money to a Kickstarter project I am not entitled to a voice on the development of the game?
except you're not donating money, you're funding a project. it's patronage, and yes patrons generally get a say in what the artists produce with the cash they've given- or at least get the right to provide their personal opinion on the project as it is going
if you want to donate or donate money as you so pleasantly put it, give it to charity or to a homeless person. ks isn't a charity
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RentI'm always rightFuckin' deal with itRegistered Userregular
I don't donate to for profit companies, I invest in them.
No, not through Kickstarter you don't.
It's donations and the site is pretty crystal clear about it.
Nope, ks has said before and again that it isn't a charity. it's made that expressly clear, in its mission statement, it's faq, and its site description.
I mean, you're right, it's not an investment, but it's also not a charity. It's long-form barter or more accurately, patronage
I'm having a hard time distinguishing it from PBS or Public Radio collection drives. They have a stated goal to stay on the air. They give out rewards the more you donate. And in return, you get a promise they will create (license) new content.
Except PBS is a not-for-profit socialist organization. so, kind of the exact opposite of a PBS collection drive
It'd be real neato if the guys who have obviously just discovered KS like a month ago because of double fine would stop smugly explaining what KS is or isn't, because there's a real lack of knowledge in the given area and it's frustrating to read.
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AthenorBattle Hardened OptimistThe Skies of HiigaraRegistered Userregular
Shadowrun launched their unified webpage/forums for the 3 active Shadowrun products a couple days ago. There are forums that allow cross-discussion across the three as well - I'm not sure if these will be the official Shadowrun Returns forums or not, but hey. Their first announcement was that they had chosen the first set of moderators.
This got me to thinking: What the hell would a ruleset for a Kickstarter forum look like, and how would the mods police it? We've been talking a lot about entitlement and the vocal minority of patrons (I like that term), especially for gaming projects where one of the rewards for donating could be a voice in making the game. Well, the forums are where the rubber hits the road in that discussion, so to speak. Do you make everyone's voice equal, from the $1 patron to the $10,000+? Do you try to quell debate when multiple people put forward an idea that would hurt the game? What about feature creep?
I figure the vast majority of patrons are just going to poke their heads in occasionally, like for a big poll or something. But still, something interesting to think about!
It'd be real neato if the guys who have obviously just discovered KS like a month ago because of double fine would stop smugly explaining what KS is or isn't, because there's a real lack of knowledge in the given area and it's frustrating to read.
There's so much of this going around lately. I'm already sick of hearing people say how such-and-such Kickstarter didn't meet it's goal and, oh my god, all those backers just lost their money!
600'000 (with PayPal) on the LSL Kickstarter is reached with 29 hours to go. It's "only" 50'000 away from its "final" (theres another at 750'000 but thats just wishful thinking) funding goal which secures the addition of a new location and other stuff.
We have already reached this:
So, here's the easier one: at the $550,000 level, we will be maxing out the game responses along the lines I suggested in my video update. Tons more jokes, tons more responses for clicking on screen features, dialogue trees, inventory-on-inventory messages, and more story! We’ll load every existing nook and cranny with extra content because, as Al pointed out to us, the original was “kinda thin” on that.
seriously, though, anything given to a Kickstarter is not a gift or a donation, or at least, it may be until the Kickstarter campaign is complete, but it doesn't retain that character of income when it passes through to the bank account of the person whose receiving funding. This will be net of any processing fees. But a sufficient transfer of money may trigger Amazon's legal obligation to furnish the developer or Kickstarter a 1099-K, which will report the amount received by the Kickstarter as income. Any revenue agency will probably look at it as income. Technically, it's deferred revenue, but revenue implies a contractual obligation to perform.
hell, even those pledges on the side smell a whole like unilateral contracts and are no longer "rewards" but prices. and if we want to get really nitpicky, some of those rewards would be considered taxable income to the nerd that "donated"
they can call it donations however they like, but that's not what it is a lot of the times, unless it's like, a kickstarter to a 501(c)(3)
tyrannus on
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RentI'm always rightFuckin' deal with itRegistered Userregular
Interesting interview with Kickstarter co-founder on Marketplace last night. The Double Fine kickstarter is referenced (the second project to hit a million and how fast it did it) but not by name. (Which is good because the host, Kai Ryssdal, who I otherwise quite like, is incapable of reporting on the video game industry without a smirking can-you-believe-we’re-talking-about-these-toys tone.)
Means I'll be able to focus on this rather than trying to find a Real Job to supplement me while also going to college. Ah, the perks of living with your folks.
TheExAm on
Battlemans: DiscoCabbage | Elite: Dangerous: Aleksandr Khabaj
Means I'll be able to focus on this rather than trying to find a Real Job to supplement me while also going to college. Ah, the perks of living with your folks.
Congratulations, and thank you for asking for $12,000. This is the amount I'm considering; if you can make it, maybe I can too!
Means I'll be able to focus on this rather than trying to find a Real Job to supplement me while also going to college. Ah, the perks of living with your folks.
Congratulations, and thank you for asking for $12,000. This is the amount I'm considering; if you can make it, maybe I can too!
Or-e-gun is not as bad, though we will know you as an outsider. Ouuuuuuuuuuuuutsiiiiiiider...
Means I'll be able to focus on this rather than trying to find a Real Job to supplement me while also going to college. Ah, the perks of living with your folks.
So since you were successfully funded, do you have any tips for how you got exposure or did you just throw it up on the site and hope it gets noticed?
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TheExAmGerrymandered your districtsRegistered Userregular
Good lord. Our coding lead chatted up nearly EVERYONE he could think of. I don't think we could have survived without his blatant marketeering. Granted a majority of our pledges came from Kickstarter itself or from Kickstarter widgets, but a good 45% was all external links. Apparently, French gamers are very generous.
One guy even sprung for our $2500 pledge. That one was one of our long-shot rewards.
Basically, talk about your game everywhere you can. Be respectful of rules and whatnot and try not to spam, but do post about it wherever possible.
Battlemans: DiscoCabbage | Elite: Dangerous: Aleksandr Khabaj
Amidst all the recent talk of just how successful Kickstarter has been as a platform for creators raising money, some people have suggested that the company may run into problems down the road because it seems ripe for fraud. Of course, most things are ripe for fraud in one way or another, so Kickstarter isn't exactly special in that regard—and when fraud does happen, people will fight it just like they do anywhere else.
At least, that was certainly the case with a recent video game project on Kickstarter that turned out to be fake. As BetaBeat reports, the crowdsourcing scam was exposed by a crowdsourced investigation:
... a campaign for an action video game, MYTHIC: The Story Of Gods and Men, has just been busted by forum users at Reddit, SomethingAwful and Rock, Paper, Shotgun. The creators claimed to be an independent studio, “Little Monster Productions,” of 12 industry veterans in Hollywood. “Our team has done a significant amount of work on the World of Warcraft series as well as Diablo 2 and the original Starcraft,” says the project page.
Bullshit, said the Internet. Turns out the art was cribbed, the text for backer rewards was copied and pasted from another Kickstarter project, and even the office photos were from another game studio, Burton Design Group.
When people brought their accusations to the Kickstarter comments, the developers made a few weak attempts at deflection then quietly shut down having raised just under $5,000 (far short of their goal, so that money won't actually be released). With Kickstarter gaining more attention every day, we're sure to see more attempts at scams—and maybe even some successes—but with a savvy community that polices itself like this, the scammers face an uphill battle.
(Reference links are in the article itself, this is just copypaste)
There are also more specific details(comparisons, etc.) on RSP.
Posts
I'm pretty sure, although could be mistaken, that Republic had publisher support but not for an iOS launch. They were really pushing to be the first big budget phone game, which is a dubious goal. It's interesting that they've slid back.
Yeah, but this time the money gives their comments more weight, even though it shouldn't.
Basically, think of the entitlement of the average WoW player on how the game should be developed. And now imagine they thought of their monthly subscription as an investment rather then a cost.
It gonna be a clusterfuck.
It gives them more weight with the community, such as it is.
Risky, I guess, and not without controversy. But if you want your organisation or product to get a good rep then mutualisation of interest is the way forward.
It doesn't though. It again only makes them think they do.
Now the thing on the PA report where it proposes people become full on legal investors? That's the clusterfuck you're looking for.
I can see that running afoul of all sorts of laws about investment and taxes and such.
There's a reason Kickstarter is very clear that "THIS IS NOT AN INVESTMENT".
Your 2 sentences contradict each other. Those people who backed the project make up at least some not insignificant portion of the community. And if they think it matters, then the community does too. It's tautological because they are one and the same to some degree.
Now you could say "Oh the devs will just ignore them". Which, you know, we hope. But that's still a community-relations clusterfuck waiting to happen. Or, according to the article from last page, already happening in some cases. That's exactly the kind of thing I was talking about.
And a community-relations clusterfuck is probably not what you want on your hands when funding /advertising/etc your game almost exclusively via community relations.
You're probably right - I'm not sure how rebates work in this space, but they could well be classed as a payment of sorts. OK then, maybe some form of free DLC instead
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/460275866/valdis-story-abyssal-city?ref=category
Zeboyd Games Development Blog
Steam ID : rwb36, Twitter : Werezompire, Facebook : Zeboyd Games
Yet a space shooter like Starlight Inception can't get funded either.
I have no interest in Republic due to my lack of faith in Ryan Payton's ability to design a game (he was responsible for MGS Portable Ops' controls) but it sucks seeing its Kickstarter struggle to reach one fifth of their total. Their team have clearly put a lot of work in to get it to its current state and the idea that it could be for naught if the Kickstarter doesn't succeed is pretty brutal. Though I believe they've said that they'll continue to work on it even if the Kickstarter fails so it's not all doom and gloom but I can't imagine all Kickstarter projects are the same. Who knows if Starlight Inception will ever come out.
By the time they announced PC/Mac releases, it was already too late
I wonder if that's just me, or if there are more people in that bind now.
Actually, it got a big bump.
And some Touch Arcade writer is a fucking douche.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=37362415&postcount=1
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/04/28/keep-hope-alive-camoflaj-on-tailoring-republique-to-pc/
I hope they succeed. It's not something that I'd back, but it sounds interesting enough to buy when it comes out.
Steam // Secret Satan
except you're not donating money, you're funding a project. it's patronage, and yes patrons generally get a say in what the artists produce with the cash they've given- or at least get the right to provide their personal opinion on the project as it is going
if you want to donate or donate money as you so pleasantly put it, give it to charity or to a homeless person. ks isn't a charity
Nope, ks has said before and again that it isn't a charity. it's made that expressly clear, in its mission statement, it's faq, and its site description.
I mean, you're right, it's not an investment, but it's also not a charity. It's long-form barter or more accurately, patronage
Except PBS is a not-for-profit socialist organization. so, kind of the exact opposite of a PBS collection drive
It'd be real neato if the guys who have obviously just discovered KS like a month ago because of double fine would stop smugly explaining what KS is or isn't, because there's a real lack of knowledge in the given area and it's frustrating to read.
This got me to thinking: What the hell would a ruleset for a Kickstarter forum look like, and how would the mods police it? We've been talking a lot about entitlement and the vocal minority of patrons (I like that term), especially for gaming projects where one of the rewards for donating could be a voice in making the game. Well, the forums are where the rubber hits the road in that discussion, so to speak. Do you make everyone's voice equal, from the $1 patron to the $10,000+? Do you try to quell debate when multiple people put forward an idea that would hurt the game? What about feature creep?
I figure the vast majority of patrons are just going to poke their heads in occasionally, like for a big poll or something. But still, something interesting to think about!
There's so much of this going around lately. I'm already sick of hearing people say how such-and-such Kickstarter didn't meet it's goal and, oh my god, all those backers just lost their money!
I present
A cool looking space game
called
KINETIC VOID
So check that shit out.
We have already reached this:
hell, even those pledges on the side smell a whole like unilateral contracts and are no longer "rewards" but prices. and if we want to get really nitpicky, some of those rewards would be considered taxable income to the nerd that "donated"
they can call it donations however they like, but that's not what it is a lot of the times, unless it's like, a kickstarter to a 501(c)(3)
And it must be pointed out that such a theoretical kickstarter violates KS's terms and conditions, and probably wouldn't be approved
so yes, stop calling them donations or charity or investments or whatever
http://www.marketplace.org/topics/business/corner-office/kickstarter-diy-fundraising-social-network-age
Steam profile.
Getting started with BATTLETECH: Part 1 / Part 2
Zombie Oregon Trail
It is a first person survival adventure for the PC. The video explains it all.
If you guys like this idea, I'm currently trying to look for ways to promote the kickstarter without being spammy. Any suggestions would help.
Battlemans: DiscoCabbage | Elite: Dangerous: Aleksandr Khabaj
Hitler Reacts to Kickstarter
Cheers
Indeed they did. Oregonians even pronounce Oregon like the word Organ. The easiest way to spot a foreigner is by hearing "Or-E-Gone!"
Means I'll be able to focus on this rather than trying to find a Real Job to supplement me while also going to college. Ah, the perks of living with your folks.
Battlemans: DiscoCabbage | Elite: Dangerous: Aleksandr Khabaj
I tend towards "or-e-gun". How shunned will I be?
---
Congratulations, and thank you for asking for $12,000. This is the amount I'm considering; if you can make it, maybe I can too!
Or-e-gun is not as bad, though we will know you as an outsider. Ouuuuuuuuuuuuutsiiiiiiider...
So since you were successfully funded, do you have any tips for how you got exposure or did you just throw it up on the site and hope it gets noticed?
One guy even sprung for our $2500 pledge. That one was one of our long-shot rewards.
Basically, talk about your game everywhere you can. Be respectful of rules and whatnot and try not to spam, but do post about it wherever possible.
Battlemans: DiscoCabbage | Elite: Dangerous: Aleksandr Khabaj
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120502/20095818750/online-communities-bust-kickstarter-scam.shtml
(Reference links are in the article itself, this is just copypaste)
There are also more specific details(comparisons, etc.) on RSP.
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/05/01/kickstopped-the-strange-case-of-mythic-gods-men/