This day gets better and better. My CCNA funding just got blown out of the water it looks like. God forbid they approve anything "career enhancing"
you won't even make me a status employee
I've given 7 years of my fucking life to federal service, you won't give me status, you're going to let me go within a year, and I can't compete for other federal jobs I am more than qualified for because YOU WON'T GIVE ME STATUS, and God FUCKING forbid you throw a few sheckles my way for some training because you think it might make me too valuable and I'll quit.
Fuck.
Can you appeal that decision?
No Than. My agency is the bastard child of the government. We're governed under an entirely separate Act (literally) that allows employees to be treated like shit basically.
This day gets better and better. My CCNA funding just got blown out of the water it looks like. God forbid they approve anything "career enhancing"
you won't even make me a status employee
I've given 7 years of my fucking life to federal service, you won't give me status, you're going to let me go within a year, and I can't compete for other federal jobs I am more than qualified for because YOU WON'T GIVE ME STATUS, and God FUCKING forbid you throw a few sheckles my way for some training because you think it might make me too valuable and I'll quit.
Fuck.
Can you appeal that decision?
No Than. My agency is the bastard child of the government. We're governed under an entirely separate Act (literally) that allows employees to be treated like shit basically.
Have you started looking for a new job yet?
Seriously, I wouldn't wait out the end of that one. It's going to be way harder to find another job once you're not employed anymore, and if they are left hanging because you live, you can explain to them exactly why in your exit interview. At this point, you owe them nothing.
Surreality is there at least any baseless speculation to how apomorphine could have lasting effects?
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
yeah apomorphine is a number of things
it certainly is a dopamine agonist among other things (and its used as a standard way of testing dopamine function via the apomorphine challenge test measuring hgh response) but thats actually pretty shitty for measuring dopamine function soooooooo
however, its effect on addiction (which is again not a 100% sure fire thing, most of the data is way too old and proper new studies are needed) is not analogous to the other d2 agonists tried. borg did some stuff with bromocriptine which is directly analagous - so much so that theyre both used in parkinsons for the same reason - but in large-scale trials it didnt pan out.
I really want to get the A-10 Warthog simulator on sale at Steam but I know I won't play it anytime soon. I just have such a huge mancrush on the A-10.
i was under the impression that literally nothing worked for most severe cases of fibromyalgia
Tramadol works OK, but often causes intense nightmares if you take it near bedtime, sooo... you get to have interrupted sleep from wtfhorror in your brain, or you get to have interrupted sleep from tossing and turning because everything hurts.
Hydrocodone helps OK but is habit forming.
That's pretty much it for things you can be prescribed, though cymbalta amazingly does cut the pain by a lot.
To play internet pharmacist, has she ever tried/talked to her doctor about gabapentin/neurontin? It some cases it seems to work incredibly well.
This day gets better and better. My CCNA funding just got blown out of the water it looks like. God forbid they approve anything "career enhancing"
you won't even make me a status employee
I've given 7 years of my fucking life to federal service, you won't give me status, you're going to let me go within a year, and I can't compete for other federal jobs I am more than qualified for because YOU WON'T GIVE ME STATUS, and God FUCKING forbid you throw a few sheckles my way for some training because you think it might make me too valuable and I'll quit.
Fuck.
Can you appeal that decision?
No Than. My agency is the bastard child of the government. We're governed under an entirely separate Act (literally) that allows employees to be treated like shit basically.
Have you started looking for a new job yet?
Seriously, I wouldn't wait out the end of that one. It's going to be way harder to find another job once you're not employed anymore, and if they are left hanging because you live, you can explain to them exactly why in your exit interview. At this point, you owe them nothing.
I'm not. I'm doing everything I can but I'm in the nasty position of get a job making what I make or take a paycut and lose my house, sooooooo. I already have some contacts with some I.T. contractors. I have a plan B. Basically if I lose my job I can do contract work in Atlanta until I can find a job. I have a contingency plan. But I'm not going to walk away from a GS-12 job for less money just to lose my house and fuck up my credit. I'm in a damned if I do, damned if I don't situation. Which is why I was shocked when I was lead to believe I'd get my CCNA. It combined with my Security+ and Network+ and 7 years of federal experience would have helped the fuck out of my job seeking and value. And it's not like it was my fucking idea.
surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
i have batted a few ideas around with various people. at first we assumed it was restoring baseline dopamine function (because of the "conventional result" that, on average, you're looking at roughly 80% of normal dopamine recruitment in addicts), but thats probably not it. it seems to have a very strong anti-anxiety element, and although initially we framed its effects in terms of craving, we later on decided what it was probably doing was making addicts not feel the anxiety that leads to self-medication with their drug of choice - less of a craving reducer, but more of an anxious fix-me-up reducer
the basic problems in setting up a putative mechanism are fairly large:
the drug doesnt last super long in the human body, 4 hours odd
its a pretty conventional broad dopamine agonist, and if dopamine agonists had this kind of effect generally... wed know about it.
it hits a lot of other areas, a little bit of gaba and 5-ht, but it is definitely something that acts a lot in the vta and the mscl dopamine system, and again it would be silly to not consider that it might be fiddling with reward/reward saliency circuitry
im quite a fan of the saliency modification idea, but the short answer is we have no fucking clue
i was under the impression that literally nothing worked for most severe cases of fibromyalgia
Tramadol works OK, but often causes intense nightmares if you take it near bedtime, sooo... you get to have interrupted sleep from wtfhorror in your brain, or you get to have interrupted sleep from tossing and turning because everything hurts.
Hydrocodone helps OK but is habit forming.
That's pretty much it for things you can be prescribed, though cymbalta amazingly does cut the pain by a lot.
To play internet pharmacist, has she ever tried/talked to her doctor about gabapentin/neurontin? It some cases it seems to work incredibly well.
Ha! Barely beaten by Feral.
No, this is a new one for us.
How about Lyrica?
Lyrica and Neurotin both work on the GABA system though in unknown ways and they tend to work well on neuropathic pain; however the side effect profiles are comparable to CNS depressants - drowsiness, slowed reflexes, dizziness, blurred vision, etc. Not everybody experiences those side effects, but they're pretty common, so you might have to make a choice whether you'd risk a little more "brain fog" in exchange for reduced pain.
Also, this is spoilered for being a scary side effect that only happens in a tiny minority of people:
Neurotin was in the news a couple of years ago because it also caused an odd behavioral side effect - it increased self-harming behavior. But not out of any known psychological cause. it wasn't like people felt bad about themselves and went to cut themselves. Rather, it seemed to do something to impulse control in some people. People would put their hand on a stove burner or cut themselves with a kitchen knife and not really know why they did it.
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
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LudiousI just wanted a sandwich A temporally dislocated QuiznosRegistered Userregular
my wife takes Cymbalta for her FM. Lyrica didn't help her any. She also takes Tramadol but you have to cycle that because tolerance.
Well, drug companies have done just this for things like colchicine and quinine sulfate, and promptly fucked over consumers by jacking the price up.
Yeah, it's almost impossible to get the FDA to grant marketing exclusivity for a drug that's already been approved and is in active use for a different indication - for exactly that reason.
You can get a use patent, but that's worth exactly jack squat without marketing exclusivity.
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
I don't understand this gabapentin/neurontin stuff... it's an epilepsy drug you take daily?
It was originally approved for seizures, yeah, but it works well on neuropathic pain. And it is a daily regimen - you take it every day, not just as-needed.
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
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Options
LudiousI just wanted a sandwich A temporally dislocated QuiznosRegistered Userregular
edited May 2012
I wish they had one of those places here where you could pay money then go into a room full of breakable shit and just wail on it with a bat
I really want to get the A-10 Warthog simulator on sale at Steam but I know I won't play it anytime soon. I just have such a huge mancrush on the A-10.
"Here's a gun. Let's build an aircraft around it."
i have batted a few ideas around with various people. at first we assumed it was restoring baseline dopamine function (because of the "conventional result" that, on average, you're looking at roughly 80% of normal dopamine recruitment in addicts), but thats probably not it. it seems to have a very strong anti-anxiety element, and although initially we framed its effects in terms of craving, we later on decided what it was probably doing was making addicts not feel the anxiety that leads to self-medication with their drug of choice - less of a craving reducer, but more of an anxious fix-me-up reducer
the basic problems in setting up a putative mechanism are fairly large:
the drug doesnt last super long in the human body, 4 hours odd
its a pretty conventional broad dopamine agonist, and if dopamine agonists had this kind of effect generally... wed know about it.
it hits a lot of other areas, a little bit of gaba and 5-ht, but it is definitely something that acts a lot in the vta and the mscl dopamine system, and again it would be silly to not consider that it might be fiddling with reward/reward saliency circuitry
im quite a fan of the saliency modification idea, but the short answer is we have no fucking clue
Is it an unusually strong agonist?
Uneducated guessing:
Maybe it's causing a significant enough amount of firing that there is some form of LTP going on so new receptors are being deployed and new synapses are occurring between the vta and its targets?
GABA is a major inhibitory transmitter - it triggers the action of inhibitory synapses, which suppresses the activity of other neurotransmitters. A really terrible but still useful metaphor is that GABA is the red streetlight of the brain.
(Winky and surreality, yes, I know it's terrible.)
Many of the major CNS depressants and well-known tranquilizers have some GABA-relevant action.
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
0
Options
LudiousI just wanted a sandwich A temporally dislocated QuiznosRegistered Userregular
I don't understand this gabapentin/neurontin stuff... it's an epilepsy drug you take daily?
It was originally approved for seizures, yeah, but it works well on neuropathic pain. And it is a daily regimen - you take it every day, not just as-needed.
So break it down for me, side effect wise - effect on weight, attention, does it cause headaches?
There's another daily thing she used to take that's similar and starts with an A... I can't remember it for the life of me. She lost 15lbs within 3 days of stopping it!
i am 100% sure that in 50 years they will look back at us and be like
THEY GAVE PEOPLE GABA ANALOGUES
LOL
DIDNT THEY KNOW THAT DOES LIKE 500 DIFFERENT THINGS AND ONLY ONE OF THOSE THINGS WERE SOMETHING THEY WANTED?
its the same with all the serotonin drugs, theyre such fucking coincidental voodoo
Oh yeah, the fact that we try to treat specific problems with absurdly broad chemical messengers is something that I foresee future scientists snickering at. "You're feeling sad? Here, take some serotonin reuptake inhibitor *teehee*, then I'll get the leeches so we can bleed you of bad humors."
GABA is a major inhibitory transmitter - it triggers the action of inhibitory synapses, which suppresses the activity of other neurotransmitters. A really terrible but still useful metaphor is that GABA is the red streetlight of the brain.
(Winky and surreality, yes, I know it's terrible.)
Many of the major CNS depressants and well-known tranquilizers have some GABA-relevant action.
does it decrease sensation in general?
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
edited May 2012
if it was because of its dopamine agonism youd see the same thing with bromocriptine
and moreover, remember the effect persists indefinitely
so it would need to be emulatable with any other strong dopamine agonist, which it isnt
my feeling is that we literally do not have enough knowledge to go for a proper mechanism
it feels like a receptor variation thing... have you ever looked at the variants of the gaba receptor?
it has a shit load of subunits, with a basic operating set and others that it swaps in and out
alcohol has its particular effects because it fucks with the gamma subunit that is only present on a subpopulation of receptors
you could not understand its effects if you assumed it hit every gaba receptor everywhere
I really want to get the A-10 Warthog simulator on sale at Steam but I know I won't play it anytime soon. I just have such a huge mancrush on the A-10.
"Here's a gun. Let's build an aircraft around it."
As crazy as the A-10 is, I think the design meeting for the AC-130H tops it. "Fuck it, we've got some 105mm howitzers sitting around, lets put one of those on a fucking plane!"
Posts
also lol at how intellectual property works with medicine
No Than. My agency is the bastard child of the government. We're governed under an entirely separate Act (literally) that allows employees to be treated like shit basically.
This ought to be exciting.
Seriously, I wouldn't wait out the end of that one. It's going to be way harder to find another job once you're not employed anymore, and if they are left hanging because you live, you can explain to them exactly why in your exit interview. At this point, you owe them nothing.
I chose law over pharmacy. That's how bad pharmacy was.
it certainly is a dopamine agonist among other things (and its used as a standard way of testing dopamine function via the apomorphine challenge test measuring hgh response) but thats actually pretty shitty for measuring dopamine function soooooooo
however, its effect on addiction (which is again not a 100% sure fire thing, most of the data is way too old and proper new studies are needed) is not analogous to the other d2 agonists tried. borg did some stuff with bromocriptine which is directly analagous - so much so that theyre both used in parkinsons for the same reason - but in large-scale trials it didnt pan out.
What about a use patent?
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
No, this is a new one for us.
Well, drug companies have done just this for things like colchicine and quinine sulfate, and promptly fucked over consumers by jacking the price up.
I'm not. I'm doing everything I can but I'm in the nasty position of get a job making what I make or take a paycut and lose my house, sooooooo. I already have some contacts with some I.T. contractors. I have a plan B. Basically if I lose my job I can do contract work in Atlanta until I can find a job. I have a contingency plan. But I'm not going to walk away from a GS-12 job for less money just to lose my house and fuck up my credit. I'm in a damned if I do, damned if I don't situation. Which is why I was shocked when I was lead to believe I'd get my CCNA. It combined with my Security+ and Network+ and 7 years of federal experience would have helped the fuck out of my job seeking and value. And it's not like it was my fucking idea.
the basic problems in setting up a putative mechanism are fairly large:
the drug doesnt last super long in the human body, 4 hours odd
its a pretty conventional broad dopamine agonist, and if dopamine agonists had this kind of effect generally... wed know about it.
it hits a lot of other areas, a little bit of gaba and 5-ht, but it is definitely something that acts a lot in the vta and the mscl dopamine system, and again it would be silly to not consider that it might be fiddling with reward/reward saliency circuitry
im quite a fan of the saliency modification idea, but the short answer is we have no fucking clue
discountuation syndrome sucks
How about Lyrica?
Lyrica and Neurotin both work on the GABA system though in unknown ways and they tend to work well on neuropathic pain; however the side effect profiles are comparable to CNS depressants - drowsiness, slowed reflexes, dizziness, blurred vision, etc. Not everybody experiences those side effects, but they're pretty common, so you might have to make a choice whether you'd risk a little more "brain fog" in exchange for reduced pain.
Also, this is spoilered for being a scary side effect that only happens in a tiny minority of people:
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Yeah, it's almost impossible to get the FDA to grant marketing exclusivity for a drug that's already been approved and is in active use for a different indication - for exactly that reason.
You can get a use patent, but that's worth exactly jack squat without marketing exclusivity.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
God, neurology is so messy.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
It was originally approved for seizures, yeah, but it works well on neuropathic pain. And it is a daily regimen - you take it every day, not just as-needed.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
THEY GAVE PEOPLE GABA ANALOGUES
LOL
DIDNT THEY KNOW THAT DOES LIKE 500 DIFFERENT THINGS AND ONLY ONE OF THOSE THINGS WERE SOMETHING THEY WANTED?
its the same with all the serotonin drugs, theyre such fucking coincidental voodoo
"Here's a gun. Let's build an aircraft around it."
and the gengars who are guiding me" -- W.S. Merwin
how odd.
I HAVE TWO KITTENS ON MY BED
Is it an unusually strong agonist?
Uneducated guessing:
Maybe it's causing a significant enough amount of firing that there is some form of LTP going on so new receptors are being deployed and new synapses are occurring between the vta and its targets?
GABA is a major inhibitory transmitter - it triggers the action of inhibitory synapses, which suppresses the activity of other neurotransmitters. A really terrible but still useful metaphor is that GABA is the red streetlight of the brain.
(Winky and surreality, yes, I know it's terrible.)
Many of the major CNS depressants and well-known tranquilizers have some GABA-relevant action.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
it is a double transmitter
So break it down for me, side effect wise - effect on weight, attention, does it cause headaches?
There's another daily thing she used to take that's similar and starts with an A... I can't remember it for the life of me. She lost 15lbs within 3 days of stopping it!
Oh yeah, the fact that we try to treat specific problems with absurdly broad chemical messengers is something that I foresee future scientists snickering at. "You're feeling sad? Here, take some serotonin reuptake inhibitor *teehee*, then I'll get the leeches so we can bleed you of bad humors."
does it decrease sensation in general?
and moreover, remember the effect persists indefinitely
so it would need to be emulatable with any other strong dopamine agonist, which it isnt
my feeling is that we literally do not have enough knowledge to go for a proper mechanism
it feels like a receptor variation thing... have you ever looked at the variants of the gaba receptor?
it has a shit load of subunits, with a basic operating set and others that it swaps in and out
alcohol has its particular effects because it fucks with the gamma subunit that is only present on a subpopulation of receptors
you could not understand its effects if you assumed it hit every gaba receptor everywhere
iknowright!?
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
guys, watch the first ten seconds of this
goddamn
As crazy as the A-10 is, I think the design meeting for the AC-130H tops it. "Fuck it, we've got some 105mm howitzers sitting around, lets put one of those on a fucking plane!"
i don't know if it is age or just being an angry sumagun.