If you can take Ursa or Lycan out of the fight during their ults or just kite them forever then you win. If you can bait their ults or their bkbs then you win.
Effective counters to Ursa are much easier. Doesn't even take specific heroes: you just need to kite him all day and he's pretty useless. Force staffs are great, Euls is great, but best of all is a ghost sceptre. When he engages on you just ghost and all he can do is stand there like an idiot. You can even ghost and then tp out and he can't do anything to stop you. Pretty much the same with Lycan except he can chase better and gets his bkb faster.
If Ursa attacks and the attack misses, is the fury swipe effect still applied?
And in the current version of wc3 dota, if Lanaya has Refract on, do refracted hits still apply fury swipe? (mainly wondering if she can refract and basically nullify the fury swipe bonus Overpower's fast hits would've given)
Refraction only blocks damage, not status effects (one of the reasons why dots counter her). The fury swipe debuff would be applied but she wouldn't take any damage as long as there are still defensive refractions available. Generally Lanaya uses refraction to tank nukes and meld to dodge stuns.
KoopahTroopahThe koopas, the troopas.Philadelphia, PARegistered Userregular
Played PL on Dota 2 for the first time yesterday, he felt alright. I got really counter picked by a Furion though. He just followed me around and sprouted me with a Gem the whole time so I couldn't farm and become awesome.
does phantom lancers illusions follow you around without input? i am curious to try him, but the idea of having to micromanage things frightens me as i can barely manage one hero
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KoopahTroopahThe koopas, the troopas.Philadelphia, PARegistered Userregular
does phantom lancers illusions follow you around without input? i am curious to try him, but the idea of having to micromanage things frightens me as i can barely manage one hero
Sadly no, I was expecting that improvement too. Or maybe have them auto hotkey to like '2' or something.
I just drag select a lot and send them swarming, or I'll send in one lone illusion to attack creeps so it generates more. Then stealth my real one in to attack enemy heroes if they show up.
does phantom lancers illusions follow you around without input? i am curious to try him, but the idea of having to micromanage things frightens me as i can barely manage one hero
Sadly no, I was expecting that improvement too. Or maybe have them auto hotkey to like '2' or something.
I just drag select a lot and send them swarming, or I'll send in one lone illusion to attack creeps so it generates more. Then stealth my real one in to attack enemy heroes if they show up.
it would be nice if it was a toggle similar to how you can have auto-attack on or off
does the manta style or whatever it is called have auto illusions? i picked that up when i was trying out Sniper and the illusions went and started attacking with out any input
also, i hate leavers
was playing a match last night and we were up by like 15 points. the bloodseeker on our team was racking up kills, and then eventually he was like ok, GG, and just left leaving us down i think 2 men at that point since we were playing short. we could have easily pushed and ended the game in like 5 minutes, but he had to leave that second, and we end up losing. really pissed me off since we were playing pretty well as a team
illusions will start attacking automatically if there's enemies nearby but they'll just pick a target randomly
so just select all your illusions, make that control group 2, and then select your hero + all the illusions, and make that control group 3 (control group 1 = hero only, obv.). problem solved
illusions will start attacking automatically if there's enemies nearby but they'll just pick a target randomly
so just select all your illusions, make that control group 2, and then select your hero + all the illusions, and make that control group 3 (control group 1 = hero only, obv.). problem solved
so to make that a group, you would just highlight whatever you want in it, then hit the hotkey for whatever your grouping is? or is there some fancy way to set that
So is this game going to be a buy once get all heroes type deal, or will it be more like LoL? I like LoL pretty well, and have quite a few friends who play it. I never played Dota at all.
So is this game going to be a buy once get all heroes type deal, or will it be more like LoL? I like LoL pretty well, and have quite a few friends who play it. I never played Dota at all.
it will probably be like tf2 - entirely f2p, every hero unlocked, you can pay for cosmetics/taunts/etc
Nightstalker, Axe, Batrider, Skeleton King, and Warlock
We were losing very badly early.
We had a Tidehunter who never bought hp pots and kept going back to base, then teleporting back to the lane, getting hit by minions to bring him down to low hp, then he walked back to base, and teleported back. He also died like 2-3 times within the first few minutes
I was Zeus and tried laning with him against Axe and Nightstalker. Not good.
I was finally pissed at Tide and said SOMEONE ELSE COME, I CANT HANDLE THIS 1v2
So our Sven came and helped instead, and Tide went bottom.
The other team kept split-pushing and it was really really annoying.
Eventually we got team fights and our Sven, Tide, and Miranda kept chasing them and Dazzle and I kept dying.
I was finally mad and said STOP %$^%$& CHASING THEM, DAZZLE AND I KEEP DYING. WE NEED HELP"
Dazzle was like "yup, he is right"
So Sven said "ok, you are right"
I said "Ok Miranada, it is up to you with your ult. Make it happen!!"
So we intiated everytime with her ult (she was really good at doing it at the right time) and we freaking murdered them every team fight after that. It was GREAT
As soon as we initiated, I used my ult to globally hit all of them (i rather start with it than end with it and try to killsteal people when I would rather get Sven and Miranda racking up kills than myself).
I almost finished my refresher orb too My Ahg Scep + refresher. BOOM BOOM GOD OF LIGHTNING
Moral of the story: YELL at your teammates sometimes and hope they listen!!!!
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KoopahTroopahThe koopas, the troopas.Philadelphia, PARegistered Userregular
Nightstalker, Axe, Batrider, Skeleton King, and Warlock
We were losing very badly early.
We had a Tidehunter who never bought hp pots and kept going back to base, then teleporting back to the lane, getting hit by minions to bring him down to low hp, then he walked back to base, and teleported back. He also died like 2-3 times within the first few minutes
I was Zeus and tried laning with him against Axe and Nightstalker. Not good.
I was finally pissed at Tide and said SOMEONE ELSE COME, I CANT HANDLE THIS 1v2
So our Sven came and helped instead, and Tide went bottom.
The other team kept split-pushing and it was really really annoying.
Eventually we got team fights and our Sven, Tide, and Miranda kept chasing them and Dazzle and I kept dying.
I was finally mad and said STOP %$^%$& CHASING THEM, DAZZLE AND I KEEP DYING. WE NEED HELP"
Dazzle was like "yup, he is right"
So Sven said "ok, you are right"
I said "Ok Miranada, it is up to you with your ult. Make it happen!!"
So we intiated everytime with her ult (she was really good at doing it at the right time) and we freaking murdered them every team fight after that. It was GREAT
As soon as we initiated, I used my ult to globally hit all of them (i rather start with it than end with it and try to killsteal people when I would rather get Sven and Miranda racking up kills than myself).
I almost finished my refresher orb too My Ahg Scep + refresher. BOOM BOOM GOD OF LIGHTNING
Moral of the story: YELL at your teammates sometimes and hope they listen!!!!
I feel like this mentality is what spawned the terrible community that we have in the MOBA genre. Nothing against you and I'm happy you won and that your teammates listened for once, but yelling in most cases just makes them angry/turn troll-mode on. And when it actually works like this case, it puts forth the idea that yelling at someone for not playing well is the only way to teach new players.
I do it sometimes too, like somethings just don't make sense. Not carrying TP scrolls is a big pet peeve of mine, so is not watching the minimap. These are two easy ideas that people of low MMR/ELO can't get through their head, and really it just takes practice. But when I see that no one on my team has a scroll while two to three heroes are diving my tower, it's really hard for me to keep calm.
I was telling Tide to go back to the base since he either started with no hp pots or tangos or something wierd like that and Axe kept casting that spell where he gets hurt if he doesnt last hit.
So he was losing hp like crazy and I guess didnt know to go back. Then he teleported in and took minion aggro and didnt even do anything about that and then had no health once again!
Well, i was not yelling at first and saying dont leave us squishies, we need our damage dealers/CC people to stop them from hitting us. One fight Tide just ran and chased and the one after Miranda AND Sven went to chase while an enemy came from behind and whooped the 2 of us.
But the next team fight they were still doing the same thing.
So then the CAPS HAD TO COME OUT!!!
At least it made them see the errors of their ways and we worked as a team and whooped some ass
Played PL on Dota 2 for the first time yesterday, he felt alright. I got really counter picked by a Furion though. He just followed me around and sprouted me with a Gem the whole time so I couldn't farm and become awesome.
I watched you stream that game. That Furion had you in his sights the entire time. The worst part, though, were the CM and Alchemist going back and forth in all chat - I wanted to reach through my monitor and throttle them.
Played PL on Dota 2 for the first time yesterday, he felt alright. I got really counter picked by a Furion though. He just followed me around and sprouted me with a Gem the whole time so I couldn't farm and become awesome.
I watched you stream that game. That Furion had you in his sights the entire time. The worst part, though, were the CM and Alchemist going back and forth in all chat - I wanted to reach through my monitor and throttle them.
Lol. Dat CM. It's not like I even started it, he just randomly called me bad because I was getting hunted by Furion with invis detection. I also stopped caring because the white rice and steamed pork dumplings showed up and I hadn't eaten all day. =p
Shadow Shaman is the best laning partner to Ursa. That is all.
Crystal Maiden is pretty amazing with him too. That AOE damage/slow means kiting him ain't happening.
In other news, I think I'm finally getting out of shitty noob territory, actually had a good game with Void last night, who I always seem to play terrible with. Still can't ever seem to win with Doom Bringer though.
I feel like this mentality is what spawned the terrible community that we have in the MOBA genre.
No, people calling people bad/noob/epithet and telling them to leave the game is what makes the community terrible.
Telling your team that what's happening right now isn't working AND telling them what they can do about it to make it work is good. It doesn't sound like he was a jerk about it.
If you have a newbish teammate who has no real map awareness, pinging the map and also warning them in chat about things that are happening is way better than just letting them die over and over again.
Shadow Shaman is the best laning partner to Ursa. That is all.
Crystal Maiden is pretty amazing with him too. That AOE damage/slow means kiting him ain't happening.
In other news, I think I'm finally getting out of shitty noob territory, actually had a good game with Void last night, who I always seem to play terrible with. Still can't ever seem to win with Doom Bringer though.
Ahh void. We had a long ass game a few days ago where it ended up the Void won it for us by ulti'ing his entire team and getting them murdered.
I just spent halt the day reading Meepo guides and now I am super excited for him to be added to the game. I seem to get drawn to harder and harder heroes as time goes by, heroes like skeleton king owns anti-mage now seem pretty boring to me. I guess I will have to make do with enchantress, brewmaster and PL while I wait.
Who are some good hard counters to heroes like Ursa and Lycan? Every pub game I play, someone on the opposite team tends to pick one of these two. I figured Bane because of Nightmare and Enfeeble, but I could be completely off base with that. Any other suggestions?
While I will admit I'm probably playing at a pretty noob level, I've been using the same counter to Ursa/Lycan/Lifestealer with success. Wards. I play support and I buy wards from the start and ward jungle spawns before they even spawn. (Google "dota 2 magic bush" if you haven't seen it) Lycan especially really gets screwed up easily when he has people wandering into jungle just to hit and harass him as he's trying to do his jungle camps, and is missing other jungle camps. If you want to see a jungling Lone Druid rage quit, just gank his bear more than once early. He can't jungle anymore until the summon cool down is up.
Get them far enough behind early and then you just win and keep them under control before they get too farmed really late.
Thrawn200 on
"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." - Calvin & Hobbes
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KoopahTroopahThe koopas, the troopas.Philadelphia, PARegistered Userregular
I feel like this mentality is what spawned the terrible community that we have in the MOBA genre.
No, people calling people bad/noob/epithet and telling them to leave the game is what makes the community terrible.
Telling your team that what's happening right now isn't working AND telling them what they can do about it to make it work is good. It doesn't sound like he was a jerk about it.
If you have a newbish teammate who has no real map awareness, pinging the map and also warning them in chat about things that are happening is way better than just letting them die over and over again.
Cursing and "yelling" in all caps isn't being a jerk about it? It sounds like he got frustrated and took it out on the team. Even if it's the new players fault, the better players should be more lenient and understanding. I included an example of how I'm guilty of it as well, but I think it's because people who were better than me have yelled at me when I was new and called me bad/noob/etc... It's just a vicious cycle.
It really just comes down to A) "pro" or higher level players accepting the new players mistakes while calmly helping them become better players, and the new players need to accept criticism. That maybe they don't know as much as the guy who's played 1000 games, and he is trying to help (regardless on how abrasive he is).
speaking of noobs I once looked over to a tiny and saw he had maxed his armor before his nukes. I was flabbergasted. If you are THAT new, why don't you ask how to skill your hero? I don't...
speaking of noobs I once looked over to a tiny and saw he had maxed his armor before his nukes. I was flabbergasted. If you are THAT new, why don't you ask how to skill your hero? I don't...
Some people aren't connected to the community and don't want to seem to be a bother. What they don't know is that they are more of a bother by not knowing what to do. Or... I suppose they could just be jerks. Either way. Being a noob is hard. Heck, I've never played a single MOBA in my life. It all seems so impenetrable from out here in non-Dota land.
yeah, after trying to help a friend learn the game, the game looks so different to people that haven't been playing or watching or really even reading about the games for any amount of time
just totally foreign concept
can't wait to see the tutorial and stuff that valve makes for this game, i'm sure they'll hit out of the park with their playtesting and shit
3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
edited May 2012
Probably the one thing HoN does really right is in game guides that show a basic skill and item order, which is super helpful when you're trying to learn a new hero and want to at least figure out how to skill yourself.
Valve has said they intend to do a lot more to get people into the game through tutorials and coaching. You would think people in the beta would at least have some idea how the game works, but nope.
Valve has said they intend to do a lot more to get people into the game through tutorials and coaching. You would think people in the beta would at least have some idea how the game works, but nope.
well i mean, the international was a fairly big thing, and the survey you fill out has areas that are basically "i have never entered this genre before", so i don't think its unreasonable to have random people who have no real game knowledge playing this game. i think it actually benefits valve in the long run, as they can find the common issues people have starting out and tailor all tutorials aimed at that kind of stuff
Posts
in pub games he can be a beating with his ability battle hunger
and typical shenanigans like cutting creeps in between towers can still be profitable
he's also just dang fun at times! there are other champions i would be less happy to see on my team
plus I just loved the whole idea of berserker's call + counter - HIT ME HIT ME HIT ME
just like brewmaster
also just played a game where i embarassingly bought dust, used it
when i was trying to smoke into roshan as lycan
woops
luckily the other team didn't have wards so it was all fine from there, but it was kind of embarassing
Effective counters to Ursa are much easier. Doesn't even take specific heroes: you just need to kite him all day and he's pretty useless. Force staffs are great, Euls is great, but best of all is a ghost sceptre. When he engages on you just ghost and all he can do is stand there like an idiot. You can even ghost and then tp out and he can't do anything to stop you. Pretty much the same with Lycan except he can chase better and gets his bkb faster.
Anyone want to beta read a paranormal mystery novella? Here's your chance.
stream
Survey still the best chance, sadly.
Anyone want to beta read a paranormal mystery novella? Here's your chance.
stream
If Ursa attacks and the attack misses, is the fury swipe effect still applied?
And in the current version of wc3 dota, if Lanaya has Refract on, do refracted hits still apply fury swipe? (mainly wondering if she can refract and basically nullify the fury swipe bonus Overpower's fast hits would've given)
Anyone want to beta read a paranormal mystery novella? Here's your chance.
stream
Twitch: KoopahTroopah - Steam: Koopah
Sadly no, I was expecting that improvement too. Or maybe have them auto hotkey to like '2' or something.
I just drag select a lot and send them swarming, or I'll send in one lone illusion to attack creeps so it generates more. Then stealth my real one in to attack enemy heroes if they show up.
Twitch: KoopahTroopah - Steam: Koopah
it would be nice if it was a toggle similar to how you can have auto-attack on or off
does the manta style or whatever it is called have auto illusions? i picked that up when i was trying out Sniper and the illusions went and started attacking with out any input
also, i hate leavers
was playing a match last night and we were up by like 15 points. the bloodseeker on our team was racking up kills, and then eventually he was like ok, GG, and just left leaving us down i think 2 men at that point since we were playing short. we could have easily pushed and ended the game in like 5 minutes, but he had to leave that second, and we end up losing. really pissed me off since we were playing pretty well as a team
so just select all your illusions, make that control group 2, and then select your hero + all the illusions, and make that control group 3 (control group 1 = hero only, obv.). problem solved
so to make that a group, you would just highlight whatever you want in it, then hit the hotkey for whatever your grouping is? or is there some fancy way to set that
you can select your control group any time by pressing that number again, and if you double press the number it will center your camera on that group
it will probably be like tf2 - entirely f2p, every hero unlocked, you can pay for cosmetics/taunts/etc
Zeus (me), Dazzle, Miranda, Sven, Tide
vs
Nightstalker, Axe, Batrider, Skeleton King, and Warlock
We were losing very badly early.
We had a Tidehunter who never bought hp pots and kept going back to base, then teleporting back to the lane, getting hit by minions to bring him down to low hp, then he walked back to base, and teleported back. He also died like 2-3 times within the first few minutes
I was Zeus and tried laning with him against Axe and Nightstalker. Not good.
I was finally pissed at Tide and said SOMEONE ELSE COME, I CANT HANDLE THIS 1v2
So our Sven came and helped instead, and Tide went bottom.
The other team kept split-pushing and it was really really annoying.
Eventually we got team fights and our Sven, Tide, and Miranda kept chasing them and Dazzle and I kept dying.
I was finally mad and said STOP %$^%$& CHASING THEM, DAZZLE AND I KEEP DYING. WE NEED HELP"
Dazzle was like "yup, he is right"
So Sven said "ok, you are right"
I said "Ok Miranada, it is up to you with your ult. Make it happen!!"
So we intiated everytime with her ult (she was really good at doing it at the right time) and we freaking murdered them every team fight after that. It was GREAT
As soon as we initiated, I used my ult to globally hit all of them (i rather start with it than end with it and try to killsteal people when I would rather get Sven and Miranda racking up kills than myself).
I almost finished my refresher orb too
Moral of the story: YELL at your teammates sometimes and hope they listen!!!!
I feel like this mentality is what spawned the terrible community that we have in the MOBA genre. Nothing against you and I'm happy you won and that your teammates listened for once, but yelling in most cases just makes them angry/turn troll-mode on. And when it actually works like this case, it puts forth the idea that yelling at someone for not playing well is the only way to teach new players.
I do it sometimes too, like somethings just don't make sense. Not carrying TP scrolls is a big pet peeve of mine, so is not watching the minimap. These are two easy ideas that people of low MMR/ELO can't get through their head, and really it just takes practice. But when I see that no one on my team has a scroll while two to three heroes are diving my tower, it's really hard for me to keep calm.
Good job on the game though :^:
Twitch: KoopahTroopah - Steam: Koopah
So he was losing hp like crazy and I guess didnt know to go back. Then he teleported in and took minion aggro and didnt even do anything about that and then had no health once again!
Well, i was not yelling at first and saying dont leave us squishies, we need our damage dealers/CC people to stop them from hitting us. One fight Tide just ran and chased and the one after Miranda AND Sven went to chase while an enemy came from behind and whooped the 2 of us.
But the next team fight they were still doing the same thing.
So then the CAPS HAD TO COME OUT!!!
At least it made them see the errors of their ways and we worked as a team and whooped some ass
I watched you stream that game. That Furion had you in his sights the entire time. The worst part, though, were the CM and Alchemist going back and forth in all chat - I wanted to reach through my monitor and throttle them.
XBL: InvaderJims
Bnet: Pudgestomp#11153
Lol. Dat CM. It's not like I even started it, he just randomly called me bad because I was getting hunted by Furion with invis detection. I also stopped caring because the white rice and steamed pork dumplings showed up and I hadn't eaten all day. =p
Twitch: KoopahTroopah - Steam: Koopah
Crystal Maiden is pretty amazing with him too. That AOE damage/slow means kiting him ain't happening.
In other news, I think I'm finally getting out of shitty noob territory, actually had a good game with Void last night, who I always seem to play terrible with. Still can't ever seem to win with Doom Bringer though.
No, people calling people bad/noob/epithet and telling them to leave the game is what makes the community terrible.
Telling your team that what's happening right now isn't working AND telling them what they can do about it to make it work is good. It doesn't sound like he was a jerk about it.
If you have a newbish teammate who has no real map awareness, pinging the map and also warning them in chat about things that are happening is way better than just letting them die over and over again.
Ahh void. We had a long ass game a few days ago where it ended up the Void won it for us by ulti'ing his entire team and getting them murdered.
3DSFF: 5026-4429-6577
While I will admit I'm probably playing at a pretty noob level, I've been using the same counter to Ursa/Lycan/Lifestealer with success. Wards. I play support and I buy wards from the start and ward jungle spawns before they even spawn. (Google "dota 2 magic bush" if you haven't seen it) Lycan especially really gets screwed up easily when he has people wandering into jungle just to hit and harass him as he's trying to do his jungle camps, and is missing other jungle camps. If you want to see a jungling Lone Druid rage quit, just gank his bear more than once early. He can't jungle anymore until the summon cool down is up.
Get them far enough behind early and then you just win and keep them under control before they get too farmed really late.
Cursing and "yelling" in all caps isn't being a jerk about it? It sounds like he got frustrated and took it out on the team. Even if it's the new players fault, the better players should be more lenient and understanding. I included an example of how I'm guilty of it as well, but I think it's because people who were better than me have yelled at me when I was new and called me bad/noob/etc... It's just a vicious cycle.
It really just comes down to A) "pro" or higher level players accepting the new players mistakes while calmly helping them become better players, and
Twitch: KoopahTroopah - Steam: Koopah
Some people aren't connected to the community and don't want to seem to be a bother. What they don't know is that they are more of a bother by not knowing what to do. Or... I suppose they could just be jerks. Either way. Being a noob is hard. Heck, I've never played a single MOBA in my life. It all seems so impenetrable from out here in non-Dota land.
just totally foreign concept
can't wait to see the tutorial and stuff that valve makes for this game, i'm sure they'll hit out of the park with their playtesting and shit
well i mean, the international was a fairly big thing, and the survey you fill out has areas that are basically "i have never entered this genre before", so i don't think its unreasonable to have random people who have no real game knowledge playing this game. i think it actually benefits valve in the long run, as they can find the common issues people have starting out and tailor all tutorials aimed at that kind of stuff