vertroueI am FemaleTotes Not a SithRegistered Userregular
Thank you so much Obi for an amazing game. I had a blast and it was the perfect time for me to roll mafia. Also village thanks for going with my random votes after I died, I was losing it watching the thread.
Blood and Fire
From the Desk of Darth Vertroue Diplomat to the USA.
Well, I mean, I think most of the powers you gave the village were so opaque as to be useless. So, it's not all roses.
Yeah, Village really needed more info about the reason for their powers. Agreed 100%. And it was most definitely far from perfect.
On the other hand, if the village knew more about how their abilities worked, the interactions could have been quite devastating for the mafia and serial killer teams. I think it was fine to leave things for the village to try and figure out, as piecing together the mysteries is how the game works for the most part anyways.
I'm not sure that was the case in this game. To the best of my knowledge, Meditate was never effectively used and we never figured out how the Sith influenced planets. Any Sith that we did find were despite the mechanics, not because of them.
Despite you never getting good results from Meditate, simply the fear of it kept a Sith Lord occupied every night. They had other useful abilities to be using, but we were stuck choosing Cloud Minds just on the off chance someone would get a lucky Meditate in. So having the ability and occasionally talking about it did directly benefit the village.
Well, I mean, I think most of the powers you gave the village were so opaque as to be useless. So, it's not all roses.
Yeah, Village really needed more info about the reason for their powers. Agreed 100%. And it was most definitely far from perfect.
On the other hand, if the village knew more about how their abilities worked, the interactions could have been quite devastating for the mafia and serial killer teams. I think it was fine to leave things for the village to try and figure out, as piecing together the mysteries is how the game works for the most part anyways.
I'm not sure that was the case in this game. To the best of my knowledge, Meditate was never effectively used and we never figured out how the Sith influenced planets. Any Sith that we did find were despite the mechanics, not because of them.
I'll agree on the fact that a lot of the Sith hits were made only on a partial or flawed understanding of the true mechanics at work. What I am arguing is that if the village had a tighter understanding of the true mechanics at work, it would have created such a powerful action trace that the mafia would have had to work even harder in covering their tracks. The village was actually quite a good ways there in their organization as far as trying to keep an action record going, but it was a lack of information regarding the Sith's true abilities that limited its full potential. It's possible that with a bit more thought, a stronger, more accurate theory could have been crafted.
Just looking at the succession lists on the council board and sooo many sith on the lists also saber marching in and declaring that they needed to essentially clean house and then posted a succession list that was mostly sith
The really interesting thing about the planet mechanic was how well we did DESPITE our lack of knowledge. There's a great post on the Sith proboard comparing me to an aging scientist who knows where the missing piece of my research is but has no way to get it. It's quite true. The Sith I was right on (Infidel, Vertroue, Farangu and Segatai) were all because I wasn't worried about getting the mission numbers to match exactly. Rather, I was using the mission as an additional vote record and then looking at more traditional phalla signs like vote records and posts. The times I tried to get the numbers to match exactly, I ended up being very wrong (Going after padawans on Fondor, clearing MrB). I agree that giving us too much more information on all of the various planet takeover powers would have made it much more difficult for the Sith to cover their tracks. I think the points should have been tied into the Saber's abilities in some way, rather than just a pool the Sith could draw from. While it still would have been difficult to figure out (especially not knowing how their padawans worked or that they could halve our efforts on a planet), it still would have given us a chance to figure it out on the last few days.
As for the other abilities, I actually like how meditate ended up playing out. The Jedi knew day 1 it wasn't going to be reliable (it also alerted us that there probably wasn't any true seering going on), but the threat definitely forced the Sith to keep one of their masters occupied AND ensure that they always had representation on the council. It also let them play around with players a bit (I know Infidel was telling Jedi that certain Sith had aroused his "suspicions" and should be seered; knowing the results would ultimately come back Jedi and we'd lose mission points. That sort of thing is why he's so good).
I thought the mentor mechanic was a cool idea in theory, but ended up very weak in practice. For one, neither the SK nor the Sith had much of a reason to kill the council. We didn't have any specials and they didn't receive any special benefit from it. Mentor added another disincentive for the Sith to kill councilors because it was one of our few reliable seers. Additionally, all of the cool powers (vig, planet abilities) were on the knights, so it made much more sense to chop through them. Even when I switched from being a knight to a councilor, I felt that I was much less powerful despite my promotion. There are three possibilities I can think of that would have made this less of a problem: 1) Tweaking the Coruscant planet power to allow it the council to vote out other councilors and putting in a penalty similar to the vig's except for Jedi (i.e. if the council vote killed a knight or padawan that was not a Sith, it could not be used the next turn). At the very least, it would have made the council votes and succession feel livelier and forced some of the Sith masters to come out a little more. 2) Giving the SK a reason/bonus for killing masters. Either seer protection, vig protection, or something else that would have made it worth the SK's time to kill council over knights/padawans. 3) Give the masters some of the starting specials. Making the first Sword of the Jedi a master or having a master seer/busdriver would have given the Sith more incentive to come kill us, despite the risk of mentor.
The padawans abilities really required a few days to be useful. Allowing all of them to train would have given a complete pass for the Sith padawans to do whatever they did without it showing up in the mission record. It was only once I started getting knights I was suspicious of and padwans I was fairly sure I could trust that roleblock was really useful. Another important thing to point out is that padawan/knight communication was another huge red flag for Sith. Padawans who contacted me and said "my knight isn't talking to me" really helped guide research and led me to trusting the padawans a lot more.
Well, I mean, I think most of the powers you gave the village were so opaque as to be useless. So, it's not all roses.
Yeah, Village really needed more info about the reason for their powers. Agreed 100%. And it was most definitely far from perfect.
On the other hand, if the village knew more about how their abilities worked, the interactions could have been quite devastating for the mafia and serial killer teams. I think it was fine to leave things for the village to try and figure out, as piecing together the mysteries is how the game works for the most part anyways.
I'm not sure that was the case in this game. To the best of my knowledge, Meditate was never effectively used and we never figured out how the Sith influenced planets. Any Sith that we did find were despite the mechanics, not because of them.
I'll agree on the fact that a lot of the Sith hits were made only on a partial or flawed understanding of the true mechanics at work. What I am arguing is that if the village had a tighter understanding of the true mechanics at work, it would have created such a powerful action trace that the mafia would have had to work even harder in covering their tracks. The village was actually quite a good ways there in their organization as far as trying to keep an action record going, but it was a lack of information regarding the Sith's true abilities that limited its full potential. It's possible that with a bit more thought, a stronger, more accurate theory could have been crafted.
Looking at how the powers worked, I can't see any way for the village to have possibly guessed the actual mechanics behind it. Kind of like how there was no way for the village to have guessed that the trap mechanic in figgy's recent mini was a mid-day power, and therefore pull off the end of day location vote switches he wanted the village to do.
All in all I just wanted to say I had alot of fun. I keep saying that early days were frusterating being a padwan and not being in contact with many people and having a Knight that wouldnt tell me much made me feel a little bit left out. However knowing that one day I could be a knight, and especially getting the future of the jedi upgrade that I did made up for it and I had a lot of reason to survive and a lot of fun the last few days. Ive never gotten a vig power before so getting that late game more than made up for the early game.
And pretty much any phalla where players get somthing to do other than vote is a good one IMO. And balance may not have been perfect but it got down to the wire, which implys good balance was there.
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ObiFettUse the ForceAs You WishRegistered Userregular
I thought the mentor mechanic was a cool idea in theory, but ended up very weak in practice. For one, neither the SK nor the Sith had much of a reason to kill the council. We didn't have any specials and they didn't receive any special benefit from it. Mentor added another disincentive for the Sith to kill councilors because it was one of our few reliable seers. Additionally, all of the cool powers (vig, planet abilities) were on the knights, so it made much more sense to chop through them. Even when I switched from being a knight to a councilor, I felt that I was much less powerful despite my promotion. There are three possibilities I can think of that would have made this less of a problem: 1) Tweaking the Coruscant planet power to allow it the council to vote out other councilors and putting in a penalty similar to the vig's except for Jedi (i.e. if the council vote killed a knight or padawan that was not a Sith, it could not be used the next turn). At the very least, it would have made the council votes and succession feel livelier and forced some of the Sith masters to come out a little more. 2) Giving the SK a reason/bonus for killing masters. Either seer protection, vig protection, or something else that would have made it worth the SK's time to kill council over knights/padawans. 3) Give the masters some of the starting specials. Making the first Sword of the Jedi a master or having a master seer/busdriver would have given the Sith more incentive to come kill us, despite the risk of mentor.
Man, now I wish I had put in #3 before the game. There should have most definitely been a Master special role. Knights and even padawans at the end had a special. Why didn't I put in one for the Masters!?
I was very disappointed in actual performance of Mentor and I think you hit the nail on the head as to why it wasn't used. Bummer that we didn't have a couple blue ghosts floating around helping the village from the background by the end of the game.
I also find it very interesting that you found the Sith by combining information from the map with votes and posts. I like that it worked out that way.
I thought the mentor mechanic was a cool idea in theory, but ended up very weak in practice. For one, neither the SK nor the Sith had much of a reason to kill the council. We didn't have any specials and they didn't receive any special benefit from it. Mentor added another disincentive for the Sith to kill councilors because it was one of our few reliable seers. Additionally, all of the cool powers (vig, planet abilities) were on the knights, so it made much more sense to chop through them. Even when I switched from being a knight to a councilor, I felt that I was much less powerful despite my promotion. There are three possibilities I can think of that would have made this less of a problem: 1) Tweaking the Coruscant planet power to allow it the council to vote out other councilors and putting in a penalty similar to the vig's except for Jedi (i.e. if the council vote killed a knight or padawan that was not a Sith, it could not be used the next turn). At the very least, it would have made the council votes and succession feel livelier and forced some of the Sith masters to come out a little more. 2) Giving the SK a reason/bonus for killing masters. Either seer protection, vig protection, or something else that would have made it worth the SK's time to kill council over knights/padawans. 3) Give the masters some of the starting specials. Making the first Sword of the Jedi a master or having a master seer/busdriver would have given the Sith more incentive to come kill us, despite the risk of mentor.
Man, now I wish I had put in #3 before the game. There should have most definitely been a Master special role. Knights and even padawans at the end had a special. Why didn't I put in one for the Masters!?
I was very disappointed in actual performance of Mentor and I think you hit the nail on the head as to why it wasn't used. Bummer that we didn't have a couple blue ghosts floating around helping the village from the background by the end of the game.
I also find it very interesting that you found the Sith by combining information from the map with votes and posts. I like that it worked out that way.
Lord knows I was trying my hardest to be the village idiot. I wanted to be a Jedi ghost so badly Obi....
"Go down, kick ass, and set yourselves up as gods, that's our Prime Directive!"
Thanks for hosting Obifett! This was a lot of fun. :-)
@Rawkking Goodguy. Grumble grumble. I was nervous that I should meditate on you but had decided concentrating on planets and helping the network suss out sith was more important. Silly me I guess. Great game!
Posts
From the Desk of Darth Vertroue Diplomat to the USA.
Despite you never getting good results from Meditate, simply the fear of it kept a Sith Lord occupied every night. They had other useful abilities to be using, but we were stuck choosing Cloud Minds just on the off chance someone would get a lucky Meditate in. So having the ability and occasionally talking about it did directly benefit the village.
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
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Because I'll do it, damn your eyes! :ar!
Thanks for hosting, Obi! I didn't get to play as long as I would have liked, but it was a fun read.
They've been unlocked ever since the council got disbanded, I think.
Aren't they pretty?
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I knew it!
Smoove is getting so grudged...the rest of you are (partially) off the hook.
As for the other abilities, I actually like how meditate ended up playing out. The Jedi knew day 1 it wasn't going to be reliable (it also alerted us that there probably wasn't any true seering going on), but the threat definitely forced the Sith to keep one of their masters occupied AND ensure that they always had representation on the council. It also let them play around with players a bit (I know Infidel was telling Jedi that certain Sith had aroused his "suspicions" and should be seered; knowing the results would ultimately come back Jedi and we'd lose mission points. That sort of thing is why he's so good).
I thought the mentor mechanic was a cool idea in theory, but ended up very weak in practice. For one, neither the SK nor the Sith had much of a reason to kill the council. We didn't have any specials and they didn't receive any special benefit from it. Mentor added another disincentive for the Sith to kill councilors because it was one of our few reliable seers. Additionally, all of the cool powers (vig, planet abilities) were on the knights, so it made much more sense to chop through them. Even when I switched from being a knight to a councilor, I felt that I was much less powerful despite my promotion. There are three possibilities I can think of that would have made this less of a problem: 1) Tweaking the Coruscant planet power to allow it the council to vote out other councilors and putting in a penalty similar to the vig's except for Jedi (i.e. if the council vote killed a knight or padawan that was not a Sith, it could not be used the next turn). At the very least, it would have made the council votes and succession feel livelier and forced some of the Sith masters to come out a little more. 2) Giving the SK a reason/bonus for killing masters. Either seer protection, vig protection, or something else that would have made it worth the SK's time to kill council over knights/padawans. 3) Give the masters some of the starting specials. Making the first Sword of the Jedi a master or having a master seer/busdriver would have given the Sith more incentive to come kill us, despite the risk of mentor.
The padawans abilities really required a few days to be useful. Allowing all of them to train would have given a complete pass for the Sith padawans to do whatever they did without it showing up in the mission record. It was only once I started getting knights I was suspicious of and padwans I was fairly sure I could trust that roleblock was really useful. Another important thing to point out is that padawan/knight communication was another huge red flag for Sith. Padawans who contacted me and said "my knight isn't talking to me" really helped guide research and led me to trusting the padawans a lot more.
From the Desk of Darth Vertroue Diplomat to the USA.
And pretty much any phalla where players get somthing to do other than vote is a good one IMO. And balance may not have been perfect but it got down to the wire, which implys good balance was there.
Man, now I wish I had put in #3 before the game. There should have most definitely been a Master special role. Knights and even padawans at the end had a special. Why didn't I put in one for the Masters!?
I was very disappointed in actual performance of Mentor and I think you hit the nail on the head as to why it wasn't used. Bummer that we didn't have a couple blue ghosts floating around helping the village from the background by the end of the game.
I also find it very interesting that you found the Sith by combining information from the map with votes and posts. I like that it worked out that way.
"MrB is acting like mafia and making terrible posts"
"I've been suspicious of Kime for days"
"this post by nirya is pretty awful"
gets vigged
And then you'll kill Taya.
Who will be the seer.
I die before day 3 every time.
Lord knows I was trying my hardest to be the village idiot. I wanted to be a Jedi ghost so badly Obi....
just a quick thought before i vanish...
the council is an exclusionary mechanic.
didn't like it.
at all.
@Rawkking Goodguy. Grumble grumble. I was nervous that I should meditate on you but had decided concentrating on planets and helping the network suss out sith was more important. Silly me I guess. Great game!