SELECT * FROM posts WHERE tid = 'PA PROGRAMMING THREAD'

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  • InfidelInfidel Heretic Registered User regular
    Jimmy King wrote: »
    urahonky wrote: »
    Welp... I was down to around 25 known bugs as of last week. Then they let someone else test it... Now we're at 63.
    That's why just having the developer test the code is terrible. It used to happen all the time at my old job. I always tried to explain to them that I'm the developer, I'm biased and so at a disadvantage when testing. If I didn't already think it was correct I wouldn't have written it that way and I wouldn't be testing it yet. There are also things that you just don't even think to try because how it works is so engrained in your mind that you just know not to do X and it never crosses your mind that someone else might.

    I have explained this to people so many damn times ugh.

    IT WORKS LIKE I THINK IT SHOULD WORK IMAGINE THAT.

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  • GnomeTankGnomeTank Registered User regular
    Pretty much. It works exactly like I coded the critical path to work. No I didn't see what would happen if I tried to hold down ctrl and alt when I clicked the button, because that's not what the code was meant to do. It's QA's job to figure out that my critical path is insufficient for stupid users.

    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
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  • DrunkMcDrunkMc Registered User regular
    We have a guy who's sole job it is to find bugs. He's very good at it. Unfortunately, he also thinks he's very good at fixing bugs. He can not get through his mind that he's not to send me fixes, only bugs and how to reproduce them. I get so much shitty code for him as fixes, and they are the most brute force bullshit things I have ever seen. Ugggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

    But yeah, def. should have a seperate, hopefully unknowledgable person using your code to figure it out if it works. You will NEVER think of the stupid shit users will try to do with your stuff.

  • urahonkyurahonky Dayton, OHRegistered User regular
    Yeah there's somehow a bug where a dialog pops up and if you type a character and hit cancel like 5 times an exception gets thrown. How the hell did he find that?

  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    Probably because he short circuited his keyboard as he fumbled coffee onto it.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • Joe KJoe K Registered User regular
    urahonky wrote: »
    Yeah there's somehow a bug where a dialog pops up and if you type a character and hit cancel like 5 times an exception gets thrown. How the hell did he find that?

    its his JOB.

  • jackaljackal Registered User regular
    Some people are just truffle pigs when it comes to finding errors.

  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    jackal wrote: »
    Some people are just truffle pigs when it comes to finding errors.

    z0m813-127.gif

    bowen on
    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • urahonkyurahonky Dayton, OHRegistered User regular
    Joe K wrote: »
    urahonky wrote: »
    Yeah there's somehow a bug where a dialog pops up and if you type a character and hit cancel like 5 times an exception gets thrown. How the hell did he find that?

    its his JOB.

    Hah I realize that but typing chars and then hitting cancel 5 times? There's no way I would have even thought about that. :P

  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    What the hell is your program doing on cancel that it would do that, one wonders though.

    bowen on
    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • Jimmy KingJimmy King Registered User regular
    urahonky wrote: »
    Joe K wrote: »
    urahonky wrote: »
    Yeah there's somehow a bug where a dialog pops up and if you type a character and hit cancel like 5 times an exception gets thrown. How the hell did he find that?

    its his JOB.

    Hah I realize that but typing chars and then hitting cancel 5 times? There's no way I would have even thought about that. :P
    That's exactly my point about someone who's not the developer needs to test. Users do crazy, nonsensical stuff that no one should have thought to do all the time.

  • InfidelInfidel Heretic Registered User regular
    That isn't even it.

    Slamming at something to find all the stupid shit is QA, but that's not why developers aren't supposed to test their own shit. There isn't anything stopping them from doing that, just that it would be a waste of their time.

    No, the reason you don't have me do all the testing is because I have to interpret business requirements and testing my own code won't catch that I understood something incorrectly.

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  • zeenyzeeny Registered User regular
    There isn't anything stopping them from doing that, just that it would be a waste of their time.

    Not to mention a loss of money for everybody involved.

  • InfidelInfidel Heretic Registered User regular
    zeeny wrote: »
    There isn't anything stopping them from doing that, just that it would be a waste of their time.

    Not to mention a loss of money for everybody involved.

    Well time is money!

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  • zeenyzeeny Registered User regular
    Somebody should merge the PHP thread in here...

  • jackaljackal Registered User regular
    But this is the programming thread.

  • InfidelInfidel Heretic Registered User regular
    jackal wrote: »
    But this is the programming thread.

    Zing

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  • DisrupterDisrupter Registered User regular
    Ive always found testing my own code to be sort of a paradox. I dont want to find bugs. Really I dont. And as much as I can try to fight that underlying fact, finding bugs means a) I wrote a bug so that hurts the ego and b) I have to fix said bug so thats more work for me. I do the best I can to try to ignore these facts and do a solid job bug testing. But yeah, its a sort of conflict of interest. QA, their job is to find bugs. They wont be battling some internal combination of ego and desire to complete work while doing so.

    At least, thats my personal excuse as to why I let bugs slip through sometimes. Its the worst feeling, i need to rationalize it somehow.

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  • Gilbert0Gilbert0 North of SeattleRegistered User regular
    Infidel wrote: »
    That isn't even it.

    Slamming at something to find all the stupid shit is QA, but that's not why developers aren't supposed to test their own shit. There isn't anything stopping them from doing that, just that it would be a waste of their time.

    No, the reason you don't have me do all the testing is because I have to interpret business requirements and testing my own code won't catch that I understood something incorrectly.

    Oh soooo this. but this brings in the inevitable scope creep "Oh now that your fixing this, you need to do this as well".

  • zeenyzeeny Registered User regular
    jackal wrote: »
    But this is the programming thread.

    You are officially on the list.

  • Monkey Ball WarriorMonkey Ball Warrior A collection of mediocre hats Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    I am really liking webPy, except the documentation is a bit of a mess. To be fair I'm working on a pretty simplistic project for my databases class, so idk how well it would work for a truely complex webapp.

    "I resent the entire notion of a body as an ante and then raise you a generalized dissatisfaction with physicality itself" -- Tycho
  • ASimPersonASimPerson Cold... ... and hard.Registered User regular
    Infidel wrote: »
    jackal wrote: »
    But this is the programming thread.

    Zing

    :^:

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  • ecco the dolphinecco the dolphin Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    Yaaay for porting code over to another platform and compiler.

    Ended up finding some strange and exciting things in the dark corners of the code where none had tread for ages.

    One particular place tried to reinvent memmove(), but failed due to sequence point ambiguity.
    pDest[ x ] = pSrc[ x++ ];
           ^ undefined which value of x is used here (the value of x pre increment or post increment?)
    

    Terrible.

    Edit: Actually, I believe that this falls under the category of "undefined behaviour", which means the compiler is technically free to do whatever it feels like. So it can make the computer kick you in the balls while, presumably, be still within the scope of the standard.

    So if you don't want to get kicked in the balls, don't rely on undefined behaviour!

    Edit2: Hehe, now that's an idea. Hook up a little boot on a stick (maybe via a USB dongle) next to a little Lego minifig. Run a post-build step to see if your compiler of choice has detected any undefined behaviour and, if so, get the boot to kick the minifig.

    ecco the dolphin on
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  • InfidelInfidel Heretic Registered User regular
    That is both, since it is undefined behaviour due to undefined order of sequence points.

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  • ecco the dolphinecco the dolphin Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    Infidel wrote: »
    That is both, since it is undefined behaviour due to undefined order of sequence points.

    You know the sad part? I originally didn't see the warning from the compiler about this because it was surrounded by literally 1,000+ other warnings (admittedly, mostly about signed/unsigned comparisons in the same header files that were included over and over again).

    Now, this particular project compiles with 0 warnings*.

    * For gcc, at least. I'm going to go back to MSVC2005 and MSVC2010 and make it compile without warnings there.

    Yaay for the bits of time between massive projects for code cleanup!

    ecco the dolphin on
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  • CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    My boss asked me to look into an alternative to Joomla because he's had to pay for templates that sometimes become discontinued. The only other one I know of is WordPress, and I know a bit of CSS. Would that be alright for a CMS?

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  • SporkAndrewSporkAndrew Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Cantido wrote: »
    My boss asked me to look into an alternative to Joomla because he's had to pay for templates that sometimes become discontinued. The only other one I know of is WordPress, and I know a bit of CSS. Would that be alright for a CMS?

    Wordpress is OK. It's a bit bizarre at times but it's got a massive install base so there's tons of documentation.

    If you want to go a bit nicer there's always PyroCMS. You can use the community edition for commercial stuff, buying the licence just gives you access to some paid-for modules and the ability to white-label the back-end. It's built on CodeIgniter so it's speedy, and uses a great module system that's super-flexible. It's also got one of the nicest back-ends I've seen in a long time. We've been using it at work for a while now and it's great for everything from simple websites to complicated systems.

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  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    ecco, I would have assumed that it would get the value of X pre assignment, that makes the most sense. The assignment on the left should be evaluated first, and then the action/logic on the right is performed.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • urahonkyurahonky Dayton, OHRegistered User regular
    Do you guys know of any good C Programming tutorial websites?

  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
  • urahonkyurahonky Dayton, OHRegistered User regular
    Thank you kindly.

  • urahonkyurahonky Dayton, OHRegistered User regular
    Is there a good C IDE that I could use, or am I going to be limited to installing Cygwin and gcc'ing everything?

  • SaerisSaeris Borb Enthusiast flapflapflapflapRegistered User regular
    My experience with Cygwin has been... less than positive. I'd just set up a Linux partition instead, if possible. It's honestly less of a headache.

    borb_sig.png
  • EtheaEthea Registered User regular
  • SaerisSaeris Borb Enthusiast flapflapflapflapRegistered User regular
    edited May 2012
    Isn't void main() an acceptable declaration under C89? I thought there were three different valid main()s:

    int main(int argc, char **argv)
    int main(void)
    void main(void)

    edit: and the compiler would automatically consider the last one to always return 0 or EXIT_SUCCESS.

    Saeris on
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  • Jimmy KingJimmy King Registered User regular
    Infidel wrote: »
    That isn't even it.

    Slamming at something to find all the stupid shit is QA, but that's not why developers aren't supposed to test their own shit. There isn't anything stopping them from doing that, just that it would be a waste of their time.

    No, the reason you don't have me do all the testing is because I have to interpret business requirements and testing my own code won't catch that I understood something incorrectly.
    Yeah, there's that, too. I tend to consider the QA type testing and the basic user acceptance "Does this appear to do what we asked you to make it do" two different things and the user acceptance testing part has rarely been a problem for me. It's always the general QA/bugs stuff. That's especially true in my current job where I get to work very closely with the product owners and they see a working demo of whatever I've built at least every 2 weeks and usually every couple of days because I ask them to come by and make sure I'm building it to do what they wanted.

  • urahonkyurahonky Dayton, OHRegistered User regular
    Saeris wrote: »
    My experience with Cygwin has been... less than positive. I'd just set up a Linux partition instead, if possible. It's honestly less of a headache.

    Same. I'm not a fan of it... But I am going to have to end up writing memory scanning for Windows so I don't think using a Linux Partition is the route I want to go.

  • urahonkyurahonky Dayton, OHRegistered User regular
    edited May 2012
    Lookie that: Netbeans has a C/C++ compiler built in. Hot damn!

    e: But we're on hour 2 of installing Cygwin.

    urahonky on
  • InfidelInfidel Heretic Registered User regular
    bowen wrote: »
    ecco, I would have assumed that it would get the value of X pre assignment, that makes the most sense. The assignment on the left should be evaluated first, and then the action/logic on the right is performed.

    Why should it?

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  • jackaljackal Registered User regular
    Apparently there will not be a VS Express 11 for desktop apps, just one for web apps and one for metro. For desktop apps they will keep Express 2010 versions available. So they won't be releasing any free IDE that can handle both desktop apps and .Net 4.5. Additionally they won't be shipping VS 11 with the ability to target Windows 7 or earlier (this will ship later). I'm not sure if this is because they have limited resources, or if they are just pushing Windows 8 that hard.

This discussion has been closed.