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[Total War: Discussion] Total WAAAAAAAAGH WARHAMMER!

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  • DisruptorX2DisruptorX2 Registered User regular
    If I see one sign of shirtless Egyptian axemen with Pharaoh headdresses, I will avoid this like the plague.

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  • KadokenKadoken Giving Ends to my Friends and it Feels Stupendous Registered User regular
    If I see one sign of shirtless Egyptian axemen with Pharaoh headdresses, I will avoid this like the plague.

    I think they've done well with that kind of thing since Medieval 2. Though I remove the dumb balloons in Shogun 2 with Darthmod. Speaking of which, Rome 2 will probably get a Darthmod to remove dumb things and add good things.

  • VorpalVorpal Registered User regular
    I bet the naval battles will be better than the ones in Napoleon - somehow the wind driven ships behaved more as though they had motors.

    I figure it should be easier to make oar - powered triremes behave realistically.

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  • KadokenKadoken Giving Ends to my Friends and it Feels Stupendous Registered User regular
    Oh shit. Naval battles. Shogun 2 naval battles are so fucked up the ass they're basically unplayable. The units refuse to move when I command them, the ships move slow as fuck, perhaps even slower than infantry on land. They can't do formations for shit.

    Please, oh please fix naval battles CA. Shogun 2's are broken. Broken.

  • Dongs GaloreDongs Galore Registered User regular
    Kadoken wrote: »
    Oh shit. Naval battles. Shogun 2 naval battles are so fucked up the ass they're basically unplayable. The units refuse to move when I command them, the ships move slow as fuck, perhaps even slower than infantry on land. They can't do formations for shit.

    Please, oh please fix naval battles CA. Shogun 2's are broken. Broken.

    Are you sure that isn't on your end? I've never had this problem.

  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    Kadoken wrote: »
    Oh shit. Naval battles. Shogun 2 naval battles are so fucked up the ass they're basically unplayable. The units refuse to move when I command them, the ships move slow as fuck, perhaps even slower than infantry on land. They can't do formations for shit.

    Please, oh please fix naval battles CA. Shogun 2's are broken. Broken.

    Are you sure that isn't on your end? I've never had this problem.

    Yeah, me neither.

    CA acknowledged way back in the demo that Shogun 2 had uncommonly fast infantry combat, as a design decision on their part (and if you see Naginata samurai jog half way across a map, you'll see why), but both sail/oar and steam-driven ships seem to respond as they should, albeit somewhat clumsy (though given the state of the coal driven ships the Japanese first used, that's probably being too forgiving for gameplay's sake). Having units at a slower place actually makes a place for flanking units.

  • lu tzelu tze Sweeping the monestary steps.Registered User regular
    edited July 2012
    Vorpal wrote: »
    I bet the naval battles will be better than the ones in Napoleon - somehow the wind driven ships behaved more as though they had motors.
    What exactly is your complaint?

    A sailing ship can go in pretty much any direction except directly into the wind. You don't need the wind behind you to make good speed, that's not how they work.

    lu tze on
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  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    I never really got into Rome, so I'm glad to see Rome II is coming out. Really looking forward to it.

    I wonder, though - my "biggest" issue with Medieval II was that all of my generals ended up turning into hard-drinking gay men. Does that tend to happen in Rome, too?

    In Rome I recall the generals were more likely to end up as hard drinking, bloodthirsty men with anger issues. There was the time my patriarch wound up sliding further and further into mental sickness instead though.

    While the experience system used for generals in Shogun 2 (and I believe Empire as well) is more balanced and predictable, I do miss some of the traits from the older way of doing things. It went way overboard at times but bringing back some of it would be nice. Crusader Kings has shown just how much you can do with the characters in a realm so I hope CA took note of how well received CK2 was. I do find the idea of the armies themselves having traits intriguing as well.

    The Shogun 2 system, while great for building stats and so forth, does keep you from having the shot of utter managerial geniuses/total pants-on-head retarded commanders that you could easily get in Rome in a mature game. That being said, I do miss some of the randomness that you got in Rome. From what I remember, mostly the northern European clans had problems with drinking because of their reliance on mead halls--any commander in a town with a mead hall had a certain chance of becoming an alcoholic per turn, right? The same could be said if you played as Rome, but had generals in cities in the north.

  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    lu tze wrote: »
    Vorpal wrote: »
    I bet the naval battles will be better than the ones in Napoleon - somehow the wind driven ships behaved more as though they had motors.
    What exactly is your complaint?

    A sailing ship can go in pretty much any direction except directly into the wind. You don't need the wind behind you to make good speed, that's not how they work.

    Well, for 18th-century square-rigged sailing ships, they do need the wind mostly behind them. They generally weren't particularly weatherly.

  • KlashKlash Lost... ... in the rainRegistered User regular
    Yeah, I found Shogun 2's naval battles really smooth.

    Especially if I have cannons and they don't. There is nothing so satisfying as watching arrows blink off your Black ship and single-ship-edly sinking a full navy.

    God damn are sail ships slow, though.

    We don't even care... whether we care or not...
  • lu tzelu tze Sweeping the monestary steps.Registered User regular
    edited July 2012
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    lu tze wrote: »
    Vorpal wrote: »
    I bet the naval battles will be better than the ones in Napoleon - somehow the wind driven ships behaved more as though they had motors.
    What exactly is your complaint?

    A sailing ship can go in pretty much any direction except directly into the wind. You don't need the wind behind you to make good speed, that's not how they work.

    Well, for 18th-century square-rigged sailing ships, they do need the wind mostly behind them. They generally weren't particularly weatherly.
    But how realistic do you need it to be?

    I'd wager that the same people complaining now would be complaining more if their prized fleet got blown to pieces because they got caught in irons, or they tried to tack at the wrong time and their masts disintegrated.

    You shouldn't need to learn the finer points of sailing to play a grand strategy game IMO.

    lu tze on
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  • FreiFrei A French Prometheus Unbound DeadwoodRegistered User regular
    Yeah, the Total War series has never been about simulation or strict accuracy (historical or otherwise), they tend to put fun ahead of it, which I am glad for. I don't give a shit if my army's kimono thread count is not accurate.

    Are you the magic man?
  • Dongs GaloreDongs Galore Registered User regular
    Fall of the Samurai's naval battles are even better, in my experience, since all the ships are steam-driven and have guns

    and they explode gloriously

  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    edited July 2012
    lu tze wrote: »
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    lu tze wrote: »
    Vorpal wrote: »
    I bet the naval battles will be better than the ones in Napoleon - somehow the wind driven ships behaved more as though they had motors.
    What exactly is your complaint?

    A sailing ship can go in pretty much any direction except directly into the wind. You don't need the wind behind you to make good speed, that's not how they work.

    Well, for 18th-century square-rigged sailing ships, they do need the wind mostly behind them. They generally weren't particularly weatherly.
    But how realistic do you need it to be?

    For this game, not particularly - but that wasn't what you seemed to be saying. :D You seemed to be making a realism argument for how the Napoleon ships behaved, when they don't behave particularly realistically.
    I'd wager that the same people complaining now would be complaining more if their prized fleet got blown to pieces because they got caught in irons, or they tried to tack at the wrong time and their masts disintegrated.

    Certainly.
    You shouldn't need to learn the finer points of sailing to play a grand strategy game IMO.

    Agreed - but I'd love to see a more realistic Age of Sail Combat Sim somehow.

    Elvenshae on
  • lu tzelu tze Sweeping the monestary steps.Registered User regular
    Maybe I poorly phrased it, I wasn't arguing that Napoleon was realistic... but that it's as realistic as it needs to be.

    It makes reasonable abstractions.

    World's best janitor
  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    lu tze wrote: »
    Maybe I poorly phrased it, I wasn't arguing that Napoleon was realistic... but that it's as realistic as it needs to be.

    It makes reasonable abstractions.

    Well, then, I guess we don't need to do the whole pistols-at-dawn thing. *sigh*

  • Unco-ordinatedUnco-ordinated NZRegistered User regular
    If I see one sign of shirtless Egyptian axemen with Pharaoh headdresses, I will avoid this like the plague.

    Why on earth would you avoid it for a silly thing like that? There's these things called mods that fix all those problems.

    Hopefully Rome II will support Steam Workshop.

    Steam ID - LiquidSolid170 | PSN ID - LiquidSolid
  • KadokenKadoken Giving Ends to my Friends and it Feels Stupendous Registered User regular
    I had a naval battle at 3x speed. I individually ordered them because group orders didn't work. The pathfinding sucked. Everything was broken.

  • ZhivvyZhivvy I be Z Registered User regular
    edited July 2012
    Kadoken wrote: »
    I had a naval battle at 3x speed. I individually ordered them because group orders didn't work. The pathfinding sucked. Everything was broken.
    phew you must have been extremely unfortunate. Have you played Shogun more recently? This may have been a bug I did'nt encounter on release. Surely those things have been iron out since then.

    Edit: I goofed

    Zhivvy on
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  • ZhivvyZhivvy I be Z Registered User regular
    edited July 2012
    I really did love the naval battles in Shogun, and just thinking about broadsidding ships with Triremes gives me goose bumps. Actually, I wonder if they will make the war with Carthage more of a focus point, since it was heavly fought on seas.

    Zhivvy on
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  • CampyCampy Registered User regular
  • FoefallerFoefaller Registered User regular
    Fleeb wrote: »
    Ohhhhhh rrrrrrreally? I wonder if it will be as a-historical as the old RTW.

    Hell I still play that, just have to use a good mod like Europa Barbarorum to make it bearable.

    Nothing pisses me off like seeing the Egyptians forces wearing pharaoh headdresses and swinging kopeshes. Dammit, they were hellenic! The Ptolemies were Greek FFS!

    Or lorica segmentata on early Roman troops AAARGH!

    Heh, I'm kinda the same way. I can live with having the fancy loricas on the early Roman troops, but pharaoh hats on (hellenistic) Eygptians? *shudder*

    anyway, the second RPS interview is up.

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  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    Campy wrote: »
    TRIARII.

    PRINCIPE!

  • BigityBigity Lubbock, TXRegistered User regular
    Heck yea I'm ready for this game.

  • PriscaPrisca Registered User regular
    edited July 2012
    Synthesis wrote: »
    Campy wrote: »
    TRIARII.

    PRINCIPE!

    Rome 2's principes unit model has been leaked!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6O6kor_b0o&feature=relmfu

    The second RPS interview article is quite interesting, especially their discussion about the AI and multiplayer. I wasn't interested in Shogun 2's multiplayer component, but I've heard it had significant balance problems? Perhaps CA should focus more on singleplayer.

    It's also possible that Roman ninjas and flaming pigs will return!
    RPS: Especially once the elephants get to do their thing. One more question: will there be incendiary pigs?

    JR: (laughs) Never say never.



    Prisca on
  • CorehealerCorehealer The Apothecary The softer edge of the universe.Registered User regular
    The day is OoOoOours!

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  • KadokenKadoken Giving Ends to my Friends and it Feels Stupendous Registered User regular
    Zhivvy wrote: »
    Kadoken wrote: »
    I had a naval battle at 3x speed. I individually ordered them because group orders didn't work. The pathfinding sucked. Everything was broken.
    phew you must have been extremely unfortunate. Have you played Shogun more recently? This may have been a bug I did'nt encounter on release. Surely those things have been iron out since then.

    Edit: I goofed

    This was like a week and a half ago. Also sometimes the unit pathfinding sucks on ground, mostly when you group units far away from each other.
    Current Shogun 2 game.
    I'm playing Tokugawa right now, and after beating the shit out of the mainland Shimazu and Ouichi armies, the Shimazu are sending a huge force over from their island. 4 full stacks vs my 4 full stacks. While my son and a new general defend Chokosabe island, my Daimyo, 3 sons, and two generals with full stacks of battle hardened men are making a gigantic push at Kyoto. We are going to wipe out the Ashikaga, take Kyoto, and repeat history by making the Tokugawa the shogunate

  • FreiFrei A French Prometheus Unbound DeadwoodRegistered User regular
    I urge anyone who hasn't to play Fall of the Samurai, it is entirely superior to Shogun 2 as far as mechanics and fun go.

    Unless you just hate gunpowder or something, but it's not like Napoleon or Empire, melee units and cavalry still play a large part.

    Are you the magic man?
  • KadokenKadoken Giving Ends to my Friends and it Feels Stupendous Registered User regular
    Frei wrote: »
    I urge anyone who hasn't to play Fall of the Samurai, it is entirely superior to Shogun 2 as far as mechanics and fun go.

    Unless you just hate gunpowder or something, but it's not like Napoleon or Empire, melee units and cavalry still play a large part.

    $7.50 to see what CA could do with enhanced musket AI on Amazon.com.

    I have been very interested in the guns, but especially the trains and naval artillery look fantastic. I think you can conquer Okinawa in Fall too.

    I've got a question. Can the Americans/French/Brits land on Japan? Also, can I give my troops repeaters and revolvers to get an advantage over lesser teched clans? One more, what clan on the Imperial side essentially won the war? I like playing games where I redo history. Except for Empire at War, because that game was lackluster on the ground, and I like big ships thus I picked Empire.

  • ZhivvyZhivvy I be Z Registered User regular
    Frei wrote: »
    I urge anyone who hasn't to play Fall of the Samurai, it is entirely superior to Shogun 2 as far as mechanics and fun go.

    Unless you just hate gunpowder or something, but it's not like Napoleon or Empire, melee units and cavalry still play a large part.

    Hah! Melee units in Empire were just as nasty. I remember the only skirmishes I had lost in Multiplayer were against those who picked just a fuckton of melee and charged straight into my lines. Those poor Frenchmen never stood a chance.

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  • DisruptorX2DisruptorX2 Registered User regular
    edited July 2012
    If I see one sign of shirtless Egyptian axemen with Pharaoh headdresses, I will avoid this like the plague.

    Why on earth would you avoid it for a silly thing like that? There's these things called mods that fix all those problems.

    Hopefully Rome II will support Steam Workshop.

    Its not "silly". They might as well make the Carthaginians orcs. Counting on mods in a new CA release? That is silly.

    See, on the one hand, Shogun 2 was a pretty damn good game. On the other hand, I don't give a shit about Samurai or the Sengoku Jidai. But when it comes to antiquity; the period is of great interest to me, and having a major faction replaced by some fantasy bullshit is a pretty big deal. Speaking of which, hopefully they don't do that ridiculous 3 faction thing again. If they decide to do some sort of faction thing, hopefully its different.

    DisruptorX2 on
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  • GarthorGarthor Registered User regular
    If I see one sign of shirtless Egyptian axemen with Pharaoh headdresses, I will avoid this like the plague.

    Why on earth would you avoid it for a silly thing like that? There's these things called mods that fix all those problems.

    Hopefully Rome II will support Steam Workshop.

    Its not "silly". They might as well make the Carthaginians orcs. Counting on mods in a new CA release? That is silly.

    Would buy.

  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu PIGEON Registered User regular
    Garthor wrote: »
    If I see one sign of shirtless Egyptian axemen with Pharaoh headdresses, I will avoid this like the plague.

    Why on earth would you avoid it for a silly thing like that? There's these things called mods that fix all those problems.

    Hopefully Rome II will support Steam Workshop.

    Its not "silly". They might as well make the Carthaginians orcs. Counting on mods in a new CA release? That is silly.

    Would buy.
    Yeah, replacing Carthaginians with orcs would be pretty cool.

  • SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited July 2012
    If I see one sign of shirtless Egyptian axemen with Pharaoh headdresses, I will avoid this like the plague.

    Why on earth would you avoid it for a silly thing like that? There's these things called mods that fix all those problems.

    Hopefully Rome II will support Steam Workshop.

    Its not "silly". They might as well make the Carthaginians orcs. Counting on mods in a new CA release? That is silly.

    See, on the one hand, Shogun 2 was a pretty damn good game. On the other hand, I don't give a shit about Samurai or the Sengoku Jidai. But when it comes to antiquity; the period is of great interest to me, and having a major faction replaced by some fantasy bullshit is a pretty big deal. Speaking of which, hopefully they don't do that ridiculous 3 faction thing again. If they decide to do some sort of faction thing, hopefully its different.

    That's a shame, but I guess understandable, I suppose. These kind of games are defined in large part by their settings.

    Medieval Europe and near Asia don't interest me--emphasis on the medieval part--MI and M II don't hold my interest (not to mention they don't have the design upgrades that have spoiled me in the recent titles), so I wouldn't play Medieval II again for anything short of something insane, like a Warcraft total conversion. I probably wouldn't play Medieval III either, unless the game went all the way to China (and why would it?).

    Synthesis on
  • KadokenKadoken Giving Ends to my Friends and it Feels Stupendous Registered User regular
    Garthor wrote: »
    If I see one sign of shirtless Egyptian axemen with Pharaoh headdresses, I will avoid this like the plague.

    Why on earth would you avoid it for a silly thing like that? There's these things called mods that fix all those problems.

    Hopefully Rome II will support Steam Workshop.

    Its not "silly". They might as well make the Carthaginians orcs. Counting on mods in a new CA release? That is silly.

    Would buy.
    Yeah, replacing Carthaginians with orcs would be pretty cool.

    I kind of agree with Disruptor. I wouldn't avoid it however. Though, what I'd like to know, is why is he more upset about the Egyptians, than the fact that you can have Gladiators in your army. (According to Steam PAer Jaramr, this is a real thing.)

  • DisruptorX2DisruptorX2 Registered User regular
    edited July 2012
    Kadoken wrote: »
    I kind of agree with Disruptor. I wouldn't avoid it however. Though, what I'd like to know, is why is he more upset about the Egyptians, than the fact that you can have Gladiators in your army. (According to Steam PAer Jaramr, this is a real thing.)

    I don't recall seeing the AI ever recruit them, and I never did. You're also forgetting about the Battlefield Ninjas. Same deal with them.
    Synthesis wrote: »
    I probably wouldn't play Medieval III either, unless the game went all the way to China (and why would it?).

    Yes, we all want a Total War game with China in it. They already had the opportunity with Shogun II, but used that second expansion for a war that wasn't really much of a war at all. I think it would be cool if Medieval 3 went East at least to India, though. Scrap the new world, that campaign was never fun -nor was fighting the doom stacks of rabble- and use the map space for the East.

    Plus the new world battles were always inherently silly because only Spain had an early modern unit roster. If you went there with England, for example, you'd have bowmen and medieval knights.

    DisruptorX2 on
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  • Alistair HuttonAlistair Hutton Dr EdinburghRegistered User regular
    If I see one sign of shirtless Egyptian axemen with Pharaoh headdresses, I will avoid this like the plague.

    I hear they're taking a leaf out of valve's book and it's just going to be wall-wall-hats. Hats on the Egyptians, hats on the Scythias. Hats on all the regular troops, hats on the dog handlers, hats on the dogs, hats on the catapults, the catapult ammunition with be hats, hats on the flaming pigs, the hats on the flaming pigs will be able to be individually set on fire separate to the pig, the building will be made out of hats, the currency will be hats, the aim of the game will be to build the biggest hat and defend it for 10 turns, "turns" will be renamed "hats". In fact the game will actually be called at release Total War: Hat, although they are toying with the idea Total Hat: Hat and Hat Hat: Hat.

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  • Unco-ordinatedUnco-ordinated NZRegistered User regular
    If I see one sign of shirtless Egyptian axemen with Pharaoh headdresses, I will avoid this like the plague.

    Why on earth would you avoid it for a silly thing like that? There's these things called mods that fix all those problems.

    Hopefully Rome II will support Steam Workshop.

    Its not "silly". They might as well make the Carthaginians orcs. Counting on mods in a new CA release? That is silly.

    See, on the one hand, Shogun 2 was a pretty damn good game. On the other hand, I don't give a shit about Samurai or the Sengoku Jidai. But when it comes to antiquity; the period is of great interest to me, and having a major faction replaced by some fantasy bullshit is a pretty big deal. Speaking of which, hopefully they don't do that ridiculous 3 faction thing again. If they decide to do some sort of faction thing, hopefully its different.

    Of course there won't be mods at first but they'll almost certainly come out at some point and you'll still apparently be avoiding it.

    I'm FAR more concerned with the mechanics and engine running properly than the historical accuracy of the initial release. Egyptian units that are a thousand years out of date can be easily fixed, Empire Total War's problems can't.

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  • BasilBasil Registered User regular
    edited July 2012
    Oh moses' jublies. Here we go. Rome 2, huh?

    Gee. We've come a long way.

    I wonder how Rome will fair under my iron grip this time!

    -This talk of legions is terribly exciting. I'm looking forward to seeing how that plays out. I always fancied the concept of proper armies rather than stacks of doods I put together on a whim.

    Basil on
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  • Steel AngelSteel Angel Registered User regular
    Unit wise I'm hoping they keep the more streamlined and focused approach that Shogun 2 had. While not as silly as the scores of units differing only by a stat point per building upgrade in Medieval 2, stuff like having a unit type just for early legionaries that would stick around after the Marian reforms were decades old was weird.

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