I am reminded of Gamespot's "Indievelopment" series where they spotlighted a small house making a game called Black Powder, Red Earth. Those guys ended up getting to use UE3 for a cheap licensing fee, and during the show you can see that Epic is pretty content to help them with whatever they need. They even got to spend time at Epic asking the guys questions, and they seemed pretty happy with the engine.
That said, I don't think it would be fair if Dyack got screwed out of the support he was entitled to. Still, the evidence I've seen in that show and the fact (stated many times already) that several good looking games are coming out on the engine leads me to believe that Dyack is just kind of freaking out.
Heck, Hour of Victory runs on UE3. It's a pretty mediocre game, but they finished it and it runs (not all that well in places mind you, but it does run. Why am I playing it? Well I had to review it, and...I am a total sucker for UE3, I'll admit). If a small team I've never heard of can get their mediocre WWII FPS running on the engine without complaint, and Silicon Knights (one of my favorite developers) can't get their supposedly amazing game to run on the same engine, then I think something is going seriously wrong at SK.
brynstar on
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There seems to be a lot of graphical glitches on my end while playing R6:Vegas.
Not sure if it's due to an early build of UE3 or Ubisoft not taking their time.
Gears seems fine though...any other UE3 game out other than that half assed WW2 game?
The document then asks that "The Court award damages to Silicon Knights in an amount proved at trial for the damages as set forth above", and that "Epic be required to disgorge all profits obtained on its Gears of War game as a result of the misconduct set forth above."
The document then asks that "The Court award damages to Silicon Knights in an amount proved at trial for the damages as set forth above", and that "Epic be required to disgorge all profits obtained on its Gears of War game as a result of the misconduct set forth above."
The document then asks that "The Court award damages to Silicon Knights in an amount proved at trial for the damages as set forth above", and that "Epic be required to disgorge all profits obtained on its Gears of War game as a result of the misconduct set forth above."
75 grand PLUS alk profits form Gears of War.
Now they have gone totally insane.
Holy fuck.
Also, the word "disgorged" used in that sense is kinda funny. I imagine Mark Rein vomiting up millions of dollar bills.
The document then asks that "The Court award damages to Silicon Knights in an amount proved at trial for the damages as set forth above", and that "Epic be required to disgorge all profits obtained on its Gears of War game as a result of the misconduct set forth above."
75 grand PLUS alk profits form Gears of War.
Now they have gone totally insane.
Hahahahaha...
75,000 is chump change. Profits from Gears of War? They will get that from Epic's cold, dead hands.
The document then asks that "The Court award damages to Silicon Knights in an amount proved at trial for the damages as set forth above", and that "Epic be required to disgorge all profits obtained on its Gears of War game as a result of the misconduct set forth above."
75 grand PLUS alk profits form Gears of War.
Now they have gone totally insane.
Holy fuck.
Also, the word "disgorged" used in that sense is kinda funny. I imagine Mark Rein vomiting up millions of dollar bills.
The document then asks that "The Court award damages to Silicon Knights in an amount proved at trial for the damages as set forth above", and that "Epic be required to disgorge all profits obtained on its Gears of War game as a result of the misconduct set forth above."
75 grand PLUS alk profits form Gears of War.
Now they have gone totally insane.
Holy fuck.
Also, the word "disgorged" used in that sense is kinda funny. I imagine Mark Rein vomiting up millions of dollar bills.
Vomiting if you're lucky.
Going off of one definition, I don't want to see if he has to violently discharge the money.
In all this thread, I only saw two people who actually took the time to read the charges.
SK is accusing Epic of not delivering their engine on time AND not providing support, both of which were specified in their contract.
The contract stipulated that Epic had to provide the UE3 engine at most 6 months after the 360 dev kits came out, but SK only got it 14 months after the dev kit. In game-development time, 8 months is a FUCKING LONG TIME not to be working on your only project.
The second part is more subjective, as what SK defines as "support" may be different from Epic's definition.
At any rate, it seems that the first charge leaves no room for ambiguity, and therefore SK has a pretty strong case against Epic for breach of contract. A reasonable settlement, IMO, would be for Epic to pay SK the same amount as the profits made from Too Human in the first 8 months, since Epic's delay effectively delayed the game's release by 8 months, costing SK 8 months of profits. Of course, then they'd have to wait till 8 months after TH comes out to know what that amount is, but that seems to be the amount of damage SK is suffering from here.
Man. Isnt it the 1up Yours tomorrow. They should get Brian back on who basically said Denis Dyack needs to be fired to his face on a previous show. Awesome.
In all this thread, I only saw two people who actually took the time to read the charges.
SK is accusing Epic of not delivering their engine on time AND not providing support, both of which were specified in their contract.
The contract stipulated that Epic had to provide the UE3 engine at most 6 months after the 360 dev kits came out, but SK only got it 14 months after the dev kit. In game-development time, 8 months is a FUCKING LONG TIME not to be working on your only project.
The second part is more subjective, as what SK defines as "support" may be different from Epic's definition.
At any rate, it seems that the first charge leaves no room for ambiguity, and therefore SK has a pretty strong case against Epic for breach of contract. A reasonable settlement, IMO, would be for Epic to pay SK the same amount as the profits made from Too Human in the first 8 months, since Epic's delay effectively delayed the game's release by 8 months, costing SK 8 months of profits. Of course, then they'd have to wait till 8 months after TH comes out to know what that amount is, but that seems to be the amount of damage SK is suffering from here.
My understanding of that read through was that they received A build on time, it wasn't THE build they wanted, and they are marking their 14 months based on the when they delivered the GOW optimized code. I don't see how they have some airtight case.
In all this thread, I only saw two people who actually took the time to read the charges.
SK is accusing Epic of not delivering their engine on time AND not providing support, both of which were specified in their contract.
The contract stipulated that Epic had to provide the UE3 engine at most 6 months after the 360 dev kits came out, but SK only got it 14 months after the dev kit. In game-development time, 8 months is a FUCKING LONG TIME not to be working on your only project.
The second part is more subjective, as what SK defines as "support" may be different from Epic's definition.
At any rate, it seems that the first charge leaves no room for ambiguity, and therefore SK has a pretty strong case against Epic for breach of contract. A reasonable settlement, IMO, would be for Epic to pay SK the same amount as the profits made from Too Human in the first 8 months, since Epic's delay effectively delayed the game's release by 8 months, costing SK 8 months of profits. Of course, then they'd have to wait till 8 months after TH comes out to know what that amount is, but that seems to be the amount of damage SK is suffering from here.
Now that seems fair and rational. Let's hope the actual settlement is something similar!
Like I mentioned, it's not like I want SK to get screwed over or anything. I just think it's somewhat poor timing from a PR standpoint given all the bad publicity Dyack has gotten over the last year.
brynstar on
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Man... I have a good place in my heart for SK. I do hope they win the lawsuit... but Jesus, all profits from Gears of War? That's a little... out there.
You base that on what? Like SimBen says, they have provided a concrete basis for breach of contract.
And of course they petitioned for a ridiculous amount of money, because then when the jury inevitably knocks down the value, it'll be at what they wanted.
You base that on what? Like SimBen says, they have provided a concrete basis for breach of contract.
And of course they petitioned for a ridiculous amount of money, because then when the jury inevitably knocks down the value, it'll be at what they wanted.
Their complaint shows a basis IF TRUE, remember you are only hearing SK side of the coin. Epics version is very different.
Man. Isnt it the 1up Yours tomorrow. They should get Brian back on who basically said Denis Dyack needs to be fired to his face on a previous show. Awesome.
1up Yours tomorrow is going to be amazing with all the MS shit this week, I wish Luke was there for this.
I don't understand all the Silicon Knights hate here. Yeah, Dyack is a bit of a dork, but he's behind some of the best games in the business and if a lack of support from Epic is why I'm not playing Too Human right the Hell now then Epic deserves whatever happens.
This seems pretty open and shut - we've seen all of two Unreal Engine games as of the end of '06, those being Vegas and Gears of War.
Everything else so far either looks unfinished and choppy (Mass Effect) or so heavily tweaked it's practically a different engine altogether (Bioshock).
The document then asks that "The Court award damages to Silicon Knights in an amount proved at trial for the damages as set forth above", and that "Epic be required to disgorge all profits obtained on its Gears of War game as a result of the misconduct set forth above."
75 grand PLUS alk profits form Gears of War.
Now they have gone totally insane.
Wow, Dennis Dyack has actually gone insane. I expect the next trailer of Too Human featuring Dyack running around his office in nappies.
Btw, there's no way this has anything to do with the PS3 version of UE3. Too Human is being published by Microsoft, it's exclusive.
It'll be interesting to see how this all turns out.
I wonder if the reason SK make this public was to see if they could get other developers who have been having troubles to join in on the lawsuit . I don't know how likely that would be but, it would help their case and offer evidence of how Epic screwed their clients.
I don't understand all the Silicon Knights hate here. Yeah, Dyack is a bit of a dork, but he's behind some of the best games in the business and if a lack of support from Epic is why I'm not playing Too Human right the Hell now then Epic deserves whatever happens.
This seems pretty open and shut - we've seen all of two Unreal Engine games as of the end of '06, those being Vegas and Gears of War.
Everything else so far either looks unfinished and choppy (Mass Effect) or so heavily tweaked it's practically a different engine altogether (Bioshock).
I hope SK takes Epic to the cleaners.
And I don't understand all the Silicon Knights love here either. They made a few mediocre turn-based strategy titles in the early 90s, an absolutely abhorrent FMV game, a buggy action RPG with horrendous load times that was totally eclipsed by its non-SK-developed sequels (Legacy of Kain), the one hit that they're actually really known for (Eternal Darkness), and a pretty if deeply flawed port of a then six year old game (Twin Snakes).
That's not exactly an illustrious career here.
korodullin on
- The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
I don't understand all the Silicon Knights hate here. Yeah, Dyack is a bit of a dork, but he's behind some of the best games in the business and if a lack of support from Epic is why I'm not playing Too Human right the Hell now then Epic deserves whatever happens.
This seems pretty open and shut - we've seen all of two Unreal Engine games as of the end of '06, those being Vegas and Gears of War.
Everything else so far either looks unfinished and choppy (Mass Effect) or so heavily tweaked it's practically a different engine altogether (Bioshock).
I hope SK takes Epic to the cleaners.
And I don't understand all the Silicon Knights love here either. They made a few mediocre turn-based strategy titles in the early 90s, an absolutely abhorrent FMV game, a buggy action RPG with horrendous load times that was totally eclipsed by its non-SK-developed sequels (Legacy of Kain), the one hit that they're actually really known for (Eternal Darkness), and a pretty if deeply flawed port of a six year old game (Twin Snakes).
That's not exactly an illustrious career here.
Not going to get into your comments about any of the other games, but I'm not sure remaking Metal Gear Solid when it's being directed by someone outside of the company because SK needs the commission for money can really be considered their fault.
And you think Blood Omen was eclipsed by its sequels? Really?
I don't understand all the Silicon Knights hate here. Yeah, Dyack is a bit of a dork, but he's behind some of the best games in the business and if a lack of support from Epic is why I'm not playing Too Human right the Hell now then Epic deserves whatever happens.
This seems pretty open and shut - we've seen all of two Unreal Engine games as of the end of '06, those being Vegas and Gears of War.
Everything else so far either looks unfinished and choppy (Mass Effect) or so heavily tweaked it's practically a different engine altogether (Bioshock).
I hope SK takes Epic to the cleaners.
And I don't understand all the Silicon Knights love here either. They made a few mediocre turn-based strategy titles in the early 90s, an absolutely abhorrent FMV game, a buggy action RPG with horrendous load times that was totally eclipsed by its non-SK-developed sequels (Legacy of Kain), the one hit that they're actually really known for (Eternal Darkness), and a pretty if deeply flawed port of a then six year old game (Twin Snakes).
That's not exactly an illustrious career here.
Blood Omen 1 was a fantastic, fantastic game, and Twin Snakes was one of the greatest remakes of all time. Hence the love.
SimBen on
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HarrierThe Star Spangled ManRegistered Userregular
edited July 2007
Well, at least now there's a reason for the crappy E3 trailer.
Harrier on
I don't wanna kill anybody. I don't like bullies. I don't care where they're from.
I don't understand all the Silicon Knights hate here. Yeah, Dyack is a bit of a dork, but he's behind some of the best games in the business and if a lack of support from Epic is why I'm not playing Too Human right the Hell now then Epic deserves whatever happens.
This seems pretty open and shut - we've seen all of two Unreal Engine games as of the end of '06, those being Vegas and Gears of War.
Everything else so far either looks unfinished and choppy (Mass Effect) or so heavily tweaked it's practically a different engine altogether (Bioshock).
I hope SK takes Epic to the cleaners.
And I don't understand all the Silicon Knights love here either. They made a few mediocre turn-based strategy titles in the early 90s, an absolutely abhorrent FMV game, a buggy action RPG with horrendous load times that was totally eclipsed by its non-SK-developed sequels (Legacy of Kain), the one hit that they're actually really known for (Eternal Darkness), and a pretty if deeply flawed port of a then six year old game (Twin Snakes).
That's not exactly an illustrious career here.
Blood Omen 1 was a fantastic, fantastic game, and Twin Snakes was one of the greatest remakes of all time. Hence the love.
Not really. I'm not going to go into the specifics of why I think it sucks but the fact that it's divided a lot of fans over whether they like or dislike it, means that it's nowhere near being one of the greatest remakes of all time. Compare it to Resident Evil Rebirth, which is beloved by pretty much every RE fan, and it doesn't even compete.
Also, yeah I'd totally call Silicon Knights a pretty mediocre developer. I'll give them Blood Omen (since I haven't played it) but I really didn't like Eternal Darkness at all. The gameplay just felt so... robotic. Even Twin Snakes felt more 'robotic' than any of the other Metal Gears.
I don't understand all the Silicon Knights hate here. Yeah, Dyack is a bit of a dork, but he's behind some of the best games in the business and if a lack of support from Epic is why I'm not playing Too Human right the Hell now then Epic deserves whatever happens.
This seems pretty open and shut - we've seen all of two Unreal Engine games as of the end of '06, those being Vegas and Gears of War.
Everything else so far either looks unfinished and choppy (Mass Effect) or so heavily tweaked it's practically a different engine altogether (Bioshock).
I hope SK takes Epic to the cleaners.
And I don't understand all the Silicon Knights love here either. They made a few mediocre turn-based strategy titles in the early 90s, an absolutely abhorrent FMV game, a buggy action RPG with horrendous load times that was totally eclipsed by its non-SK-developed sequels (Legacy of Kain), the one hit that they're actually really known for (Eternal Darkness), and a pretty if deeply flawed port of a six year old game (Twin Snakes).
That's not exactly an illustrious career here.
Not going to get into your comments about any of the other games, but I'm not sure remaking Metal Gear Solid when it's being directed by someone outside of the company because SK needs the commission for money can really be considered their fault.
And you think Blood Omen was eclipsed by its sequels? Really?
I don't think the court is going to judge the case based on the quality of each company's games.
I don't understand all the Silicon Knights hate here. Yeah, Dyack is a bit of a dork, but he's behind some of the best games in the business and if a lack of support from Epic is why I'm not playing Too Human right the Hell now then Epic deserves whatever happens.
This seems pretty open and shut - we've seen all of two Unreal Engine games as of the end of '06, those being Vegas and Gears of War.
Everything else so far either looks unfinished and choppy (Mass Effect) or so heavily tweaked it's practically a different engine altogether (Bioshock).
I hope SK takes Epic to the cleaners.
And I don't understand all the Silicon Knights love here either. They made a few mediocre turn-based strategy titles in the early 90s, an absolutely abhorrent FMV game, a buggy action RPG with horrendous load times that was totally eclipsed by its non-SK-developed sequels (Legacy of Kain), the one hit that they're actually really known for (Eternal Darkness), and a pretty if deeply flawed port of a six year old game (Twin Snakes).
That's not exactly an illustrious career here.
Not going to get into your comments about any of the other games, but I'm not sure remaking Metal Gear Solid when it's being directed by someone outside of the company because SK needs the commission for money can really be considered their fault.
And you think Blood Omen was eclipsed by its sequels? Really?
I don't think the court is going to judge the case based on the quality of each company's games.
That's a lot funnier with your sig.
I agree with you, absolutely, and apologize for continuing that line of conversation - it's just related to my confusion at all the Silicon Knights hate, which seems unfounded.
I don't understand all the Silicon Knights hate here. Yeah, Dyack is a bit of a dork, but he's behind some of the best games in the business and if a lack of support from Epic is why I'm not playing Too Human right the Hell now then Epic deserves whatever happens.
This seems pretty open and shut - we've seen all of two Unreal Engine games as of the end of '06, those being Vegas and Gears of War.
Everything else so far either looks unfinished and choppy (Mass Effect) or so heavily tweaked it's practically a different engine altogether (Bioshock).
I hope SK takes Epic to the cleaners.
And I don't understand all the Silicon Knights love here either. They made a few mediocre turn-based strategy titles in the early 90s, an absolutely abhorrent FMV game, a buggy action RPG with horrendous load times that was totally eclipsed by its non-SK-developed sequels (Legacy of Kain), the one hit that they're actually really known for (Eternal Darkness), and a pretty if deeply flawed port of a then six year old game (Twin Snakes).
That's not exactly an illustrious career here.
Blood Omen 1 was a fantastic, fantastic game, and Twin Snakes was one of the greatest remakes of all time. Hence the love.
Not really. I'm not going to go into the specifics of why I think it sucks but the fact that it's divided a lot of fans over whether they like or dislike it, means that it's nowhere near being one of the greatest remakes of all time. Compare it to Resident Evil Rebirth, which is beloved by pretty much every RE fan, and it doesn't even compete.
Also, yeah I'd totally call Silicon Knights a pretty mediocre developer. I'll give them Blood Omen (since I haven't played it) but I really didn't like Eternal Darkness at all. The gameplay just felt so... robotic. Even Twin Snakes felt more 'robotic' than any of the other Metal Gears.
The RE1 remake was superior, yes, but Twin Snakes is still high up there with Mario All-Stars and Ninja Gaiden Sigma, IMO.
From where I'm standing, if SK manages to draw other developers to their side who are willing to back up their claims that smaller development houses were shut out in terms of support and received product later than indicated in the contract, then Epic is going to have to settle or face a rather large payout. The whole intent thing is somewhat murky, and I'm not sure whether there will have to be proof of malicious intent to receive a judgement for SK (I'm not a lawyer, and I don't live in the States).
However, I do wish that people who stop proclaiming this as some kind of Dyack insanity thing. Dyack's never been afraid of speaking his mind, much like David Jaffe. A lot of what he has said has made sense. Irrespective of whether you think he's batshit insane, have you noticed the trend coming out of this year's E3? What he discussed and put forward as the way the games industry needs to move has pretty much come to pass. Almost none of the games on prominent display by the big 3 were more than 6-8 months away from going gold. There was even little in the way of covering games beyond the holiday season, a point which has been picked up by 1up, etc - even people who bashed on Dyack fairly conclusively.
Anyway, I'm hoping that this change to their own custom engine allows them to bring their design to life the way they intended and maybe the game can be judged on its merits then. I personally think the cinematic that was shown at E3 looked ridiculously bad compared to what is out there at the moment, but that should not be cause for dismissing the points that SK and Dyack make whether it's in regards to this court case or the whole previewing issue.
I don't understand all the Silicon Knights hate here. Yeah, Dyack is a bit of a dork, but he's behind some of the best games in the business and if a lack of support from Epic is why I'm not playing Too Human right the Hell now then Epic deserves whatever happens.
This seems pretty open and shut - we've seen all of two Unreal Engine games as of the end of '06, those being Vegas and Gears of War.
Everything else so far either looks unfinished and choppy (Mass Effect) or so heavily tweaked it's practically a different engine altogether (Bioshock).
I hope SK takes Epic to the cleaners.
And I don't understand all the Silicon Knights love here either. They made a few mediocre turn-based strategy titles in the early 90s, an absolutely abhorrent FMV game, a buggy action RPG with horrendous load times that was totally eclipsed by its non-SK-developed sequels (Legacy of Kain), the one hit that they're actually really known for (Eternal Darkness), and a pretty if deeply flawed port of a then six year old game (Twin Snakes).
That's not exactly an illustrious career here.
Blood Omen 1 was a fantastic, fantastic game, and Twin Snakes was one of the greatest remakes of all time. Hence the love.
Blood Omen was a good game, yes (I should know, I suffered through the load times because I actually enjoyed the setting and story), but a lot of the praise it receives is though rose-tinted glasses, and calling Twin Snakes one of the "greatest remakes of all time" does a disservice towards games like Castlevania IV, the King's Quest and Quest for Glory remakes, Resident Evil, and recently, Tomb Raider Anniversary.
That's just my opinion though, and while I respect SK as a company and have more or less enjoyed the SK games I've played in the past, I feel it's a bit rash to make comments like "take them to the cleaners" towards Epic out of what I feel is a bit of irrational fanboyism.
korodullin on
- The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
I look forward to Seeing Silicon Knights lose especially since I think it's just a show because I think Too Human won't be released anytime soon but of course it's not Silicon Knights fault but it's everyone elses.
It's not fanboyism driving me, though. I honestly think they have a case and if Epic failed to come through like SK says then they are doodooheads out of principle. The fact that I want to play Too Human is unrelated to that.
From where I'm standing, if SK manages to draw other developers to their side who are willing to back up their claims that smaller development houses were shut out in terms of support and received product later than indicated in the contract, then Epic is going to have to settle or face a rather large payout. The whole intent thing is somewhat murky, and I'm not sure whether there will have to be proof of malicious intent to receive a judgement for SK (I'm not a lawyer, and I don't live in the States).
I would totally agree....if they can get others to sign on. However, there are currently more then a dozen developers working on the engine, and SK is the only one suing at this point. This I find interesting.
From where I'm standing, if SK manages to draw other developers to their side who are willing to back up their claims that smaller development houses were shut out in terms of support and received product later than indicated in the contract, then Epic is going to have to settle or face a rather large payout. The whole intent thing is somewhat murky, and I'm not sure whether there will have to be proof of malicious intent to receive a judgement for SK (I'm not a lawyer, and I don't live in the States).
I would totally agree....if they can get others to sign on. However, there are currently more then a dozen developers working on the engine, and SK is the only one suing at this point. This I find interesting.
As stated earlier, I think other developers are either big enough to shrug it off or major publisher support with deep pockets. And/Or maybe they just prefer to focus on development rather than fiddling with lawsuits.
And as for the massive size of the requested damages, that's pretty standard for lawsuits of this magnitude. Ask for huge amounts so you can settle for a smaller if still very sizeable amount.
FireWeasel on
AC:CL Wii -- 3824-2125-9336 City: Felinito Me: Nick
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That said, I don't think it would be fair if Dyack got screwed out of the support he was entitled to. Still, the evidence I've seen in that show and the fact (stated many times already) that several good looking games are coming out on the engine leads me to believe that Dyack is just kind of freaking out.
Heck, Hour of Victory runs on UE3. It's a pretty mediocre game, but they finished it and it runs (not all that well in places mind you, but it does run. Why am I playing it? Well I had to review it, and...I am a total sucker for UE3, I'll admit). If a small team I've never heard of can get their mediocre WWII FPS running on the engine without complaint, and Silicon Knights (one of my favorite developers) can't get their supposedly amazing game to run on the same engine, then I think something is going seriously wrong at SK.
PSN ID : Xander51 Steam ID : Xander51
Not sure if it's due to an early build of UE3 or Ubisoft not taking their time.
Gears seems fine though...any other UE3 game out other than that half assed WW2 game?
75 grand PLUS alk profits form Gears of War.
Now they have gone totally insane.
They should've just sued for $Texas.
Holy fuck.
Also, the word "disgorged" used in that sense is kinda funny. I imagine Mark Rein vomiting up millions of dollar bills.
Hahahahaha...
75,000 is chump change. Profits from Gears of War? They will get that from Epic's cold, dead hands.
Going off of one definition, I don't want to see if he has to violently discharge the money.
SK is accusing Epic of not delivering their engine on time AND not providing support, both of which were specified in their contract.
The contract stipulated that Epic had to provide the UE3 engine at most 6 months after the 360 dev kits came out, but SK only got it 14 months after the dev kit. In game-development time, 8 months is a FUCKING LONG TIME not to be working on your only project.
The second part is more subjective, as what SK defines as "support" may be different from Epic's definition.
At any rate, it seems that the first charge leaves no room for ambiguity, and therefore SK has a pretty strong case against Epic for breach of contract. A reasonable settlement, IMO, would be for Epic to pay SK the same amount as the profits made from Too Human in the first 8 months, since Epic's delay effectively delayed the game's release by 8 months, costing SK 8 months of profits. Of course, then they'd have to wait till 8 months after TH comes out to know what that amount is, but that seems to be the amount of damage SK is suffering from here.
My understanding of that read through was that they received A build on time, it wasn't THE build they wanted, and they are marking their 14 months based on the when they delivered the GOW optimized code. I don't see how they have some airtight case.
Now that seems fair and rational. Let's hope the actual settlement is something similar!
Like I mentioned, it's not like I want SK to get screwed over or anything. I just think it's somewhat poor timing from a PR standpoint given all the bad publicity Dyack has gotten over the last year.
PSN ID : Xander51 Steam ID : Xander51
But shit, if they get it... More power to them.
Been quite a week for Microsoft.
I think that's their tactic, really. Aim high... and they will settle for less, but more than they probably actually want.
You base that on what? Like SimBen says, they have provided a concrete basis for breach of contract.
And of course they petitioned for a ridiculous amount of money, because then when the jury inevitably knocks down the value, it'll be at what they wanted.
Their complaint shows a basis IF TRUE, remember you are only hearing SK side of the coin. Epics version is very different.
1up Yours tomorrow is going to be amazing with all the MS shit this week, I wish Luke was there for this.
This seems pretty open and shut - we've seen all of two Unreal Engine games as of the end of '06, those being Vegas and Gears of War.
Everything else so far either looks unfinished and choppy (Mass Effect) or so heavily tweaked it's practically a different engine altogether (Bioshock).
I hope SK takes Epic to the cleaners.
Wow, Dennis Dyack has actually gone insane. I expect the next trailer of Too Human featuring Dyack running around his office in nappies.
Btw, there's no way this has anything to do with the PS3 version of UE3. Too Human is being published by Microsoft, it's exclusive.
I wonder if the reason SK make this public was to see if they could get other developers who have been having troubles to join in on the lawsuit . I don't know how likely that would be but, it would help their case and offer evidence of how Epic screwed their clients.
And I don't understand all the Silicon Knights love here either. They made a few mediocre turn-based strategy titles in the early 90s, an absolutely abhorrent FMV game, a buggy action RPG with horrendous load times that was totally eclipsed by its non-SK-developed sequels (Legacy of Kain), the one hit that they're actually really known for (Eternal Darkness), and a pretty if deeply flawed port of a then six year old game (Twin Snakes).
That's not exactly an illustrious career here.
- The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
Not going to get into your comments about any of the other games, but I'm not sure remaking Metal Gear Solid when it's being directed by someone outside of the company because SK needs the commission for money can really be considered their fault.
And you think Blood Omen was eclipsed by its sequels? Really?
Blood Omen 1 was a fantastic, fantastic game, and Twin Snakes was one of the greatest remakes of all time. Hence the love.
Not really. I'm not going to go into the specifics of why I think it sucks but the fact that it's divided a lot of fans over whether they like or dislike it, means that it's nowhere near being one of the greatest remakes of all time. Compare it to Resident Evil Rebirth, which is beloved by pretty much every RE fan, and it doesn't even compete.
Also, yeah I'd totally call Silicon Knights a pretty mediocre developer. I'll give them Blood Omen (since I haven't played it) but I really didn't like Eternal Darkness at all. The gameplay just felt so... robotic. Even Twin Snakes felt more 'robotic' than any of the other Metal Gears.
it's like, the internet does not need any more stupidity on it.
IT'S LIKE BRINGING SAND TO A BEACH.
*facepalm*
That's a lot funnier with your sig.
I agree with you, absolutely, and apologize for continuing that line of conversation - it's just related to my confusion at all the Silicon Knights hate, which seems unfounded.
The RE1 remake was superior, yes, but Twin Snakes is still high up there with Mario All-Stars and Ninja Gaiden Sigma, IMO.
However, I do wish that people who stop proclaiming this as some kind of Dyack insanity thing. Dyack's never been afraid of speaking his mind, much like David Jaffe. A lot of what he has said has made sense. Irrespective of whether you think he's batshit insane, have you noticed the trend coming out of this year's E3? What he discussed and put forward as the way the games industry needs to move has pretty much come to pass. Almost none of the games on prominent display by the big 3 were more than 6-8 months away from going gold. There was even little in the way of covering games beyond the holiday season, a point which has been picked up by 1up, etc - even people who bashed on Dyack fairly conclusively.
Anyway, I'm hoping that this change to their own custom engine allows them to bring their design to life the way they intended and maybe the game can be judged on its merits then. I personally think the cinematic that was shown at E3 looked ridiculously bad compared to what is out there at the moment, but that should not be cause for dismissing the points that SK and Dyack make whether it's in regards to this court case or the whole previewing issue.
Ever seen black sand in a white beach
Blood Omen was a good game, yes (I should know, I suffered through the load times because I actually enjoyed the setting and story), but a lot of the praise it receives is though rose-tinted glasses, and calling Twin Snakes one of the "greatest remakes of all time" does a disservice towards games like Castlevania IV, the King's Quest and Quest for Glory remakes, Resident Evil, and recently, Tomb Raider Anniversary.
That's just my opinion though, and while I respect SK as a company and have more or less enjoyed the SK games I've played in the past, I feel it's a bit rash to make comments like "take them to the cleaners" towards Epic out of what I feel is a bit of irrational fanboyism.
- The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
Silicon Knight is a pretty cool name though. It's like they are Samurai. Keyboard Cowboys.
Keyboard Cowboys would be a pretty cool name for a game company.
I would totally agree....if they can get others to sign on. However, there are currently more then a dozen developers working on the engine, and SK is the only one suing at this point. This I find interesting.
As stated earlier, I think other developers are either big enough to shrug it off or major publisher support with deep pockets. And/Or maybe they just prefer to focus on development rather than fiddling with lawsuits.
And as for the massive size of the requested damages, that's pretty standard for lawsuits of this magnitude. Ask for huge amounts so you can settle for a smaller if still very sizeable amount.