I wasn't a fan of the suit. It looked terrible compared to Chris Reeve's comic-accurate suit. What was supposed to be red was instead a dull brown. And the S shield was way too small.
Then I watched the movie and found out the suit was the least of its problems.
I mean I would say its biggest problem is a lack of a compelling antagonist. What was Supes biggest enemy in the movie? Time? Irrelevance? Some metaphysical bullshit, which while actually making sense when you have an invincible hero who can do anything with next to no weakness, doesn't make for a satisfying conclusion to a 2 hour flick.
I thought that... uh, whats-his-name (I'm sure that's not helping any) was a pretty damn fine Superman/Clark Kent. Shame they're recasting him.
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syndalisGetting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Productsregular
I mean I would say its biggest problem is a lack of a compelling antagonist. What was Supes biggest enemy in the movie? Time? Irrelevance? Some metaphysical bullshit, which while actually making sense when you have an invincible hero who can do anything with next to no weakness, doesn't make for a satisfying conclusion to a 2 hour flick.
I thought that... uh, whats-his-name (I'm sure that's not helping any) was a pretty damn fine Superman/Clark Kent. Shame they're recasting him.
Brandon Routh has a huge penis, supposedly.
They had to do digital effects on multiple shots in the film because him in the super suit was distracting.
I find it hilarious that for this reason alone, they probably need to do a penis check on every superman casting, moving forward.
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Let's play Mario Kart or something...
i maintain that superman is the worst comic book character ever and impossible to write a compelling story for
Off the top of my head:
Birthright
Superman For All Seasons
Kingdom Come
Red Son
Superman Annual #11 "For The Man Who Has Everything"
The Nail
Kal
Action Comics #775 "What's So Funny About Truth, Justice, and the American Way?"
Hitman #34 "Of Thee I Sing"
Only thing missing from this is Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow? by Alan Moore and All-Star Superman by Grant Morrison. Superman also has some amazing bits in JLA vol.2 "American Dreams" wherein he's just plain fantastic despite being all blue and electric powered.
What's So Funny About Truth, Justice, and the American Way? is one of my favorite issues of comics ever. People who complain about Superman being boring really need to read that one.
One of my favorite lines that kind of sums up Superman is in For All Seasons, though. Smallville's just been hit by this tornado and the town's all gathered at the church afterwards, and the pastor's going on about how no one could have stopped the tornado. After the sermon, Clark Kent just asks him, "But what if someone could?"
I also have a penchant for John Byrne's Superman: Man of Steel. I really dig that origin story more than most for establishing Clark Kent as the real hero in the suit. The modern classic trend of Clark being the disguise that the perfect alien Kal-El wears when he's not got tights on is super aggravating.
I have problems with John Byrne's Man of Steel. The alien Krypton he established was incredibly off-putting. How are we supposed to feel sorry for these people if they're just emotionless, robotic humanoids? It's not much of a tragedy if you can't feel for these people, and we should feel that this was a tragedy. But they all come off as humorless pricks.
The Kryptonian "womb" thing he made up to justify Kal-El being born in America was completely unneeded and silly.
Byrne also depowered Supes a bit too much for my liking.
EDIT: While I have nitpicks about Birthright, it's definitely my favorite origin story for Superman.
And oh yeah, avoid Superman Earth One at all costs. That story was total shit, IMO.
That's stupid.
It's like the uber nerds who read all that Dr Who expanded universe crap and think all Time Lords are born out of genetic looms because HOLY SHIT DOC CAN'T SEX IT UP.
But in a more supermanic way, him being an immigrant is a huge chunk of the point. At least for me it is.
Pretty much with you on that last point there. Byrne handled it very well, I thought.
dlinfiniti, name one mainstream comic book superhero that can die/isn't protected by plot armor.
death in comic books has been fucked since they tried to kill supes
i'm not debating that
i'm just saying that supes has a level of plot armor that is not seen with anyone else
whenever they do crossover and stuff, there is but one rule
supes cannot lose to a marvel character
ever
and there are similar rules in regards way he's written by dc writers as well
the only times anything of consequence ever happens to him are in alternate universes
you know its bad when you have to take a character out of his own reality to be able to do things with him
Oh man, death in comics was well and truly fucked looong before the Death of Superman. Chris Claremont pretty effectively killed the idea of death in comics with Jean Grey, and that was in the early '80s. The idea of death has only gotten more fucked since, with characters like Bucky and Uncle Ben returning to life. The Death of Superman, via comparison, actually has him stay down for a while and does a good bit with the DCU reacting to his death. Lex Luthor's take on it, in particular, is goddamned fascinating.
I won't disagree that Supes has his fair share of terrible stories. But should you judge Spider-Man on the Clone Saga? Should I hold Captain America as defined by the Cap-Wolf storyline? Batman & Robin was pretty much the definitive Batman movie, right?
Some of the scenes for this movie were shot at my neighbour's house and across the inlet in Ucluelet, you can see it in the trailer. Got my wife Henry Cavill's signature because she cares about that sort of thing and I blended right in with the crew in my rain gear, what was the worst they were going to do, say no and I would go back inside out of the rain while he had to run around without a shirt in that?
Blury because of the rain behind the scenes photo from our home.
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
dlinfiniti, name one mainstream comic book superhero that can die/isn't protected by plot armor.
death in comic books has been fucked since they tried to kill supes
i'm not debating that
i'm just saying that supes has a level of plot armor that is not seen with anyone else
whenever they do crossover and stuff, there is but one rule
supes cannot lose to a marvel character
ever
and there are similar rules in regards way he's written by dc writers as well
the only times anything of consequence ever happens to him are in alternate universes
you know its bad when you have to take a character out of his own reality to be able to do things with him
You have no idea what you're talking about
-Death in comics has been a joke for the entire length of the super hero genre. All superman did was ruin the collector industry that was about to keel over anyway.
Marvel vs DC was a fan phone vote. Nobody declared superman was unbeatable except fans. I won't bother dissecting the billion other crossovers but rest assured there is no editorial mandate like what you're presenting. Marvel canned dozens of potential crossovers because they felt superman would at last draw with his sparring partner.
Most of the stories being reccomended are in the post crisis continuity so again I say what?
I have a podcast now. It's about video games and anime!Find it here.
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AManFromEarthLet's get to twerk!The King in the SwampRegistered Userregular
dlinfiniti, name one mainstream comic book superhero that can die/isn't protected by plot armor.
death in comic books has been fucked since they tried to kill supes
i'm not debating that
i'm just saying that supes has a level of plot armor that is not seen with anyone else
whenever they do crossover and stuff, there is but one rule
supes cannot lose to a marvel character
ever
and there are similar rules in regards way he's written by dc writers as well
the only times anything of consequence ever happens to him are in alternate universes
you know its bad when you have to take a character out of his own reality to be able to do things with him
Oh man, death in comics was well and truly fucked looong before the Death of Superman. Chris Claremont pretty effectively killed the idea of death in comics with Jean Grey, and that was in the early '80s. The idea of death has only gotten more fucked since, with characters like Bucky and Uncle Ben returning to life. The Death of Superman, via comparison, actually has him stay down for a while and does a good bit with the DCU reacting to his death. Lex Luthor's take on it, in particular, is goddamned fascinating.
I won't disagree that Supes has his fair share of terrible stories. But should you judge Spider-Man on the Clone Saga? Should I hold Captain America as defined by the Cap-Wolf storyline? Batman & Robin was pretty much the definitive Batman movie, right?
Uncle Ben has definitely never come back. Dr strange removed him from time for five minutes as gift to Peter and he showed up in Hades for some reason but he has never come back to life.
I have a podcast now. It's about video games and anime!Find it here.
Notice that so far that every time they do a Superman movie it's always a reboot.
Uh... this is the first film reboot of the character in 34 years.
You're right, my wording is incorrect.
I meant that they explore Superman's origin in the movies (at least Returns and this reboot). Why? We already know where he's from, we don't need to sit through it again and have it explained again. Superman Returns very first scenes are him re-landing on Earth and then they explore how he discovered his powers. We already know the story of Superman we don't need it explained again. It's almost filler at this point.
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AManFromEarthLet's get to twerk!The King in the SwampRegistered Userregular
Superman Returns doesn't really explore his origins that much.
I take it I'm the only freak in the world who actually liked Superman Returns?
I mean I admit it had some issues. I just think it's a shame that apparently we need to throw everything in that away and start all over again.
It is just as good as the old movies.
And I had the same reaction to it as I did to them.
First Saw It: AWESOME, SUPERMAN, YES!
and it sort of went downhill for me from there : /
Problem is that the old movies aren't exactly good. Christopher Reeves is carrying those movies for about 90% of the time.
Wrong. The parts on Krypton and Smallville in Superman 1 are fantastic and the reason why it's still my favorite superhero origin story. They don't contain any Christopher Reeve.
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AManFromEarthLet's get to twerk!The King in the SwampRegistered Userregular
I take it I'm the only freak in the world who actually liked Superman Returns?
I mean I admit it had some issues. I just think it's a shame that apparently we need to throw everything in that away and start all over again.
It is just as good as the old movies.
And I had the same reaction to it as I did to them.
First Saw It: AWESOME, SUPERMAN, YES!
and it sort of went downhill for me from there : /
Problem is that the old movies aren't exactly good. Christopher Reeves is carrying those movies for about 90% of the time.
Exactly.
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NocrenLt Futz, Back in ActionNorth CarolinaRegistered Userregular
As I said I think the trailers thread, Returns was kinda a "Reload" not reboot. It's a sequel to 2 that ignores 3 and 4.
And with Snyder directing, C.Nolan producing and being one of the writers, I think this could work. I think Snyder's a good director when he's got good material to work with and someone to keep him reeled in so he doesn't go too far.
Superman Returns doesn't really explore his origins that much.
The whole first part of the movie goes over him re-landing back on Earth (as if we needed to be reminded that he's not from this world), and then shows his childhood and how he discovered how to fly and strength and what not. We already know he can fly, we already know he's fast, we already know he's strong and has laser eyes and ice breath and super hearing and vision. We don't need segues showing how he discovered these in the movie.
What's with the armor hatching on the suit? If there's a sequel, are we going to see another brand new suit? He doesn't need what looks like armor links because it's freaking Superman. I know that comes off pretty neckbeardy of me, but I mean Supe's suit is simple enough and armor looking links are just stupid, I mean is he vulnerable to swords, arrows, and sharp pointy objects now?
His suit isn't supposed to look like armor, the dude is armor.
I think a big problem you have when given the keys to the Superman car is that you have certain expectations. It's hard to market a nonaction Superman film, but frankly, that's what I would think is the most compelling approach to Superman.
Yeah, the armor... that's the problem I have with both the suit in this movie, as well as the recent Jim Lee redesign in the New 52. Superman does not need armor. He is supposed to be dressed relatively humbly, but contains tremendous powers.
I think the problem that is highlighted with Superman is that the "best" stories tend to either involve some retelling of his origin, an Elseworld or a story that tangentially involves Superman. Superman Birthright would make an excellent "reboot" story, but the others highlighted up thread - no studio is going to touch those.
The stakes are just rarely very high for the guy unless he's fighting Mongol or Doomsday or Super Armor Lex or etc.
dlinfiniti, name one mainstream comic book superhero that can die/isn't protected by plot armor.
death in comic books has been fucked since they tried to kill supes
i'm not debating that
i'm just saying that supes has a level of plot armor that is not seen with anyone else
whenever they do crossover and stuff, there is but one rule
supes cannot lose to a marvel character
ever
and there are similar rules in regards way he's written by dc writers as well
the only times anything of consequence ever happens to him are in alternate universes
you know its bad when you have to take a character out of his own reality to be able to do things with him
Oh man, death in comics was well and truly fucked looong before the Death of Superman. Chris Claremont pretty effectively killed the idea of death in comics with Jean Grey, and that was in the early '80s. The idea of death has only gotten more fucked since, with characters like Bucky and Uncle Ben returning to life. The Death of Superman, via comparison, actually has him stay down for a while and does a good bit with the DCU reacting to his death. Lex Luthor's take on it, in particular, is goddamned fascinating.
I won't disagree that Supes has his fair share of terrible stories. But should you judge Spider-Man on the Clone Saga? Should I hold Captain America as defined by the Cap-Wolf storyline? Batman & Robin was pretty much the definitive Batman movie, right?
Uncle Ben has definitely never come back. Dr strange removed him from time for five minutes as gift to Peter and he showed up in Hades for some reason but he has never come back to life.
Peter David's run on Spider-Man had Ben come back to life (technically alternate universe version, but pretty much 100% the 616 take both visually and character-wise). I don't think anyone ever did anything with it, though.
That scene works fine in a panel in a comic book, but you expect a lot more when you go see a theatrical movie. Nobody goes to a Superman movie to see him comforting some anorexic drug addict.
I wasn't specifically mentioning that we include that scene in a movie. More like "superman helping people emotionally as well as hitting things with his fists."
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
I think the problem that is highlighted with Superman is that the "best" stories tend to either involve some retelling of his origin, an Elseworld or a story that tangentially involves Superman. Superman Birthright would make an excellent "reboot" story, but the others highlighted up thread - no studio is going to touch those.
The stakes are just rarely very high for the guy unless he's fighting Mongol or Doomsday or Super Armor Lex or etc.
This is true of very little of the Superman stories discussed. All-Star Superman spends all of a page on the origin and features Superman pretty heavily, I'd say. Superman For All Seasons is kind of, sort of an origin story only it doesn't dwell on rocket ships and Krypton all that much. Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow? may be an imaginary story, but then again aren't they all?
For the Man who has Everything and What's so Funny about Truth, Justice, and the American Way? are both in-canon stories as well.
I really hope that Man of Steel takes a bunch of origin cues from Superman For All Seasons. We all know about the rocket ship and the kindly old couple, but what we haven't seen is why Clark Kent puts on the union suit. What's in him that makes a Superman? Did Jonathan and Martha Kent raise a boy just that good, or is it the alien Kal-El that makes a man super? Personally speaking, that's way more compelling than any shot of a toddler lifting up a pickup truck.
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Then I watched the movie and found out the suit was the least of its problems.
I thought that... uh, whats-his-name (I'm sure that's not helping any) was a pretty damn fine Superman/Clark Kent. Shame they're recasting him.
Brandon Routh has a huge penis, supposedly.
They had to do digital effects on multiple shots in the film because him in the super suit was distracting.
I find it hilarious that for this reason alone, they probably need to do a penis check on every superman casting, moving forward.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
Pretty much with you on that last point there. Byrne handled it very well, I thought.
Oh man, death in comics was well and truly fucked looong before the Death of Superman. Chris Claremont pretty effectively killed the idea of death in comics with Jean Grey, and that was in the early '80s. The idea of death has only gotten more fucked since, with characters like Bucky and Uncle Ben returning to life. The Death of Superman, via comparison, actually has him stay down for a while and does a good bit with the DCU reacting to his death. Lex Luthor's take on it, in particular, is goddamned fascinating.
I won't disagree that Supes has his fair share of terrible stories. But should you judge Spider-Man on the Clone Saga? Should I hold Captain America as defined by the Cap-Wolf storyline? Batman & Robin was pretty much the definitive Batman movie, right?
Blury because of the rain behind the scenes photo from our home.
quick cast an english actor
>:V
Uh... this is the first film reboot of the character in 34 years.
Think about it, though: A foreigner from a dying land comes to America and makes good.
It fits.
You have no idea what you're talking about
-Death in comics has been a joke for the entire length of the super hero genre. All superman did was ruin the collector industry that was about to keel over anyway.
Marvel vs DC was a fan phone vote. Nobody declared superman was unbeatable except fans. I won't bother dissecting the billion other crossovers but rest assured there is no editorial mandate like what you're presenting. Marvel canned dozens of potential crossovers because they felt superman would at last draw with his sparring partner.
Most of the stories being reccomended are in the post crisis continuity so again I say what?
Well at least Harry Potter is still American.
:bz
Uncle Ben has definitely never come back. Dr strange removed him from time for five minutes as gift to Peter and he showed up in Hades for some reason but he has never come back to life.
I meant that they explore Superman's origin in the movies (at least Returns and this reboot). Why? We already know where he's from, we don't need to sit through it again and have it explained again. Superman Returns very first scenes are him re-landing on Earth and then they explore how he discovered his powers. We already know the story of Superman we don't need it explained again. It's almost filler at this point.
Problem is that the old movies aren't exactly good. Christopher Reeves is carrying those movies for about 90% of the time.
Wrong. The parts on Krypton and Smallville in Superman 1 are fantastic and the reason why it's still my favorite superhero origin story. They don't contain any Christopher Reeve.
Exactly.
And with Snyder directing, C.Nolan producing and being one of the writers, I think this could work. I think Snyder's a good director when he's got good material to work with and someone to keep him reeled in so he doesn't go too far.
As American as the Philosopher's Sorcerer's stone.
This guy gets it.
The whole first part of the movie goes over him re-landing back on Earth (as if we needed to be reminded that he's not from this world), and then shows his childhood and how he discovered how to fly and strength and what not. We already know he can fly, we already know he's fast, we already know he's strong and has laser eyes and ice breath and super hearing and vision. We don't need segues showing how he discovered these in the movie.
What's with the armor hatching on the suit? If there's a sequel, are we going to see another brand new suit? He doesn't need what looks like armor links because it's freaking Superman. I know that comes off pretty neckbeardy of me, but I mean Supe's suit is simple enough and armor looking links are just stupid, I mean is he vulnerable to swords, arrows, and sharp pointy objects now?
His suit isn't supposed to look like armor, the dude is armor.
Superman doesn't need armor, unless he's fighting aliens or something.
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twitter: https://twitter.com/charlesewise
The stakes are just rarely very high for the guy unless he's fighting Mongol or Doomsday or Super Armor Lex or etc.
More of this in a superman movie maybe?
God no.
Peter David's run on Spider-Man had Ben come back to life (technically alternate universe version, but pretty much 100% the 616 take both visually and character-wise). I don't think anyone ever did anything with it, though.
What, why not?
That scene works fine in a panel in a comic book, but you expect a lot more when you go see a theatrical movie. Nobody goes to a Superman movie to see him comforting some anorexic drug addict.
This is true of very little of the Superman stories discussed. All-Star Superman spends all of a page on the origin and features Superman pretty heavily, I'd say. Superman For All Seasons is kind of, sort of an origin story only it doesn't dwell on rocket ships and Krypton all that much. Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow? may be an imaginary story, but then again aren't they all?
For the Man who has Everything and What's so Funny about Truth, Justice, and the American Way? are both in-canon stories as well.
I really hope that Man of Steel takes a bunch of origin cues from Superman For All Seasons. We all know about the rocket ship and the kindly old couple, but what we haven't seen is why Clark Kent puts on the union suit. What's in him that makes a Superman? Did Jonathan and Martha Kent raise a boy just that good, or is it the alien Kal-El that makes a man super? Personally speaking, that's way more compelling than any shot of a toddler lifting up a pickup truck.