Ah, the christian right showing they don't have a fucking clue. For starters there isn't one guy that runs OPEC. Then there is also the fact that most of us don't have a viable option outside of using gasoline powered transportation, where it's easy to find alternatives to a fast food joint (another restaurant or homemade). Actually, IIRC oil products are probably one of the few things where a boycott isn't effective given how the market works, it isn't just a lack of alternatives, it's also how they off load the product when they have a glut.
HacksawJ. Duggan Esq.Wrestler at LawRegistered Userregular
You realize none of that matters to them, right? They're pissed that they don't get to have everything all the time forever anymore. Suddenly American Christians aren't the full-stop arbiters of all that is good and just in our society, and like any majority group that has to deal with falling from the grace of moral and political supremacy they are losing their shit.
It's been wrong since 2006, when Arizona voted down a ban. What makes you think Washington rejecting one would mean anything?
Because Washington isn't just rejecting a ban; they're effectively voting in full-on gay marriage. Which hasn't ever been done before.
We're gonna break the seal. And I'm actually fairly confident in this one, in spite of my eternal pessimism. The political climate is basically perfect for it.
It's been wrong since 2006, when Arizona voted down a ban. What makes you think Washington rejecting one would mean anything?
Because Washington isn't just rejecting a ban; they're effectively voting in full-on gay marriage. Which hasn't ever been done before.
We're gonna break the seal. And I'm actually fairly confident in this one, in spite of my eternal pessimism. The political climate is basically perfect for it.
It's been wrong since 2006, when Arizona voted down a ban. What makes you think Washington rejecting one would mean anything?
Because Washington isn't just rejecting a ban; they're effectively voting in full-on gay marriage. Which hasn't ever been done before.
We're gonna break the seal. And I'm actually fairly confident in this one, in spite of my eternal pessimism. The political climate is basically perfect for it.
When will this happen?
Election day I believe.
Will this be under its own category or will it be bundled under the candidates?
It's been wrong since 2006, when Arizona voted down a ban. What makes you think Washington rejecting one would mean anything?
Because Washington isn't just rejecting a ban; they're effectively voting in full-on gay marriage. Which hasn't ever been done before.
We're gonna break the seal. And I'm actually fairly confident in this one, in spite of my eternal pessimism. The political climate is basically perfect for it.
When will this happen?
Election day I believe.
Will this be under its own category or will it be bundled under the candidates?
I am confused by this question.
I believe it will be voted on as a proposition, and like every other proposition on a ballot, it has nothing to do with the candidates up for elections.
It's been wrong since 2006, when Arizona voted down a ban. What makes you think Washington rejecting one would mean anything?
Because Washington isn't just rejecting a ban; they're effectively voting in full-on gay marriage. Which hasn't ever been done before.
We're gonna break the seal. And I'm actually fairly confident in this one, in spite of my eternal pessimism. The political climate is basically perfect for it.
When will this happen?
Election day I believe.
Will this be under its own category or will it be bundled under the candidates?
I am confused by this question.
I believe it will be voted on as a proposition, and like every other proposition on a ballot, it has nothing to do with the candidates up for elections.
Break the seal? Like the seventh seal? The one that starts the end of the world?
Ends the world in glitter.
The glitter will reflect most of the sunlight, all the plants will die, the light of cities will be reflected back off the fabulous cloud of dread
Or it'll be made of a rare earth metal that's harmful in large quantities. Oh, the irony, we'll finally have enough of one those earth metals to really revolutionize something but it'll have contaminated all of our water and food.
NocrenLt Futz, Back in ActionNorth CarolinaRegistered Userregular
So glad I don't have to deal with that Facebook crap. About the only one I might worry about is my Aunt and Uncle, but he's a Navy Chaplin and I haven't heard too much from them or any one else in my family on any subject let alone something like this.
Thankfully despite growing up in Texas and going to college and continuing to live in Kansas, pretty much everyone on my Facebook is pretty liberal. I guess going to a liberal church, high school, and college will do that.
While Thanatos was obviously being a little hyperbolic with “most anti-gay” person in the world, he is right that this dude is very harmful to the gay rights movement.
Your religion is a choice. Sending tithe to the Mormon church is another choice. Knowing that the church uses its funds and organization to actively fight against gay rights means you support that position when you send them your money. If you do this and also openly believe gays should not have civil rights, then you don't get a gold star for not donating to other hate groups. You are in fact a horrible person and part of the problem.
The Mormon church does great things with their money that don't have to do with gay rights/marriage at all. There's no way to keep track of how an organization spends every cent when you donate to something, especially a global institution like a church. You pretty much just made some ridiculous claims that have no foundation whatsoever. Still, I prefer donating to places that let you specify where the money goes, so at least you can help mitigate this kind of thing to the best of your ability.
Smoogy-1689
3DS Friend Code: 1821-8991-4141
PAD ID: 376,540,262
Sorry, but I'm finding I have little respect for many of these religious institutes that are taking tithe money to fund lobbyist arm. I've got to wonder how much of the money spent on those arms goes towards shitting on people who have life styles they object to and trying to force their religion on others. It kind of makes me sick because all of that money would be better spend on real issues like combating poverty, disease and violence. I might not go to church anymore but one of the things I respected about my Lutheran church was that understood the concept of separation of church and state, they didn't have a political lobbyist arm and their tithes went to solely maintaining the church's upkeep (utility bills, repair bills and salaries) and any excess was spent on real charity.
Yeah, I'm a bit confused here. How exactly is boycotting a business that donates money to causes you disagree with unproductive? Isn't that the idea well to get businesses to change their act, take your business elsewhere while encouraging others to do the same until that business either goes belly up or changes it's stance.
Eventually, you just feel bad from not doing/doing all the things you ought/oughtn't to do. It's not as if a person stops going to chick-fil-a and suddenly becomes the savior of the gay movement. It's not like chick-fil-a will suffer from you not going to it because it mistakenly decided to establish its franchise in places obviously unsympathetic to its cause, like those progressive southern states including Georgia, where it was founded. It's not like it's not the closest fast food restaurant to your workplace and your fellow co-workers like eating there and to overrule them you must convince every single one of them why it should be changed, after which they mention well itsn't it nice that you can be so particular when you still donate to your church every sunday, and you find to your horror that they compile a list of all the franchises you use that support causes against your philosophy, like that bar that won't recycle or your american apparel shirt with your wal-mart wallet. Come on, they say. Wouldn't it be easier just to forget about it and continue doing what we've been doing, you hypocrite? Upon which you say no, and eat alone at the taco bell two blocks down though you feel a slight tinge of guilt for how it has violated business ethics and cheated the populace of decent ingredients. Your co-workers then tease you forevermore for being fart mcbreath and so your performance noticeably drops in the next quarter.
Hence, the hit to productivity. If the business doesn't affect you at all it costs nothing for you to boycott it and you likewise are to be lauded for nothing for your contribution. You're not boycotting, you're picketing - trying to guilt those who frequent the establishment into not buying from the establishment. Picketing does have an obvious effect on your productivity since inaction on your part allows people to bypass your barricade. Picketing is usually reserved for businesses that treat their own customers poorly because they're worse at hiding that, but consider that businesses are actually very good at disguising where their money actually goes once they receive it from you. Perhaps another fast food chain in competition with chik-fil-a is a super secret super PAC donor to the Romney campaign, and they wanted chik-fil-a to take the hit to consolidate their funds into something more likely to succeed. If you are generally in charge of where your money goes, then how come the people who have almost all of it are dicks?
A pessimist that consigns him or herself to the idea that they have no fiscal control over ideologies will not be swayed by the argument that doing this action is at least a net good, however small, because they believe that doing it or not doing it doesn't matter at all in the long run. Like how donating to Africa is really a waste of time and only helps keep the oppressive regime running. It's these kinds of people that predicted the failure of the walker recall and occupy wall street and the continual worry that the ACA will be stripped to the bone, and though it may be argued that these are well disguised notes of progress, trying to shame them into participating when you haven't convinced them on principle is a waste of time. Perfect is the enemy of good? First prove it good.
Paladin on
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Eventually, you just feel bad from not doing/doing all the things you ought/oughtn't to do. It's not as if a person stops going to chick-fil-a and suddenly becomes the savior of the gay movement. It's not like chick-fil-a will suffer from you not going to it because it mistakenly decided to establish its franchise in places obviously unsympathetic to its cause, like those progressive southern states including Georgia, where it was founded. It's not like it's not the closest fast food restaurant to your workplace and your fellow co-workers like eating there and to overrule them you must convince every single one of them why it should be changed, after which they mention well itsn't it nice that you can be so particular when you still donate to your church every sunday, and you find to your horror that they compile a list of all the franchises you use that support causes against your philosophy, like that bar that won't recycle or your american apparel shirt with your wal-mart wallet. Come on, they say. Wouldn't it be easier just to forget about it and continue doing what we've been doing, you hypocrite? Upon which you say no, and eat alone at the taco bell two blocks down though you feel a slight tinge of guilt for how it has violated business ethics and cheated the populace of decent ingredients. Your co-workers then tease you forevermore for being fart mcbreath and so your performance noticeably drops in the next quarter.
Eventually, you just feel bad from not doing/doing all the things you ought/oughtn't to do. It's not as if a person stops going to chick-fil-a and suddenly becomes the savior of the gay movement. It's not like chick-fil-a will suffer from you not going to it because it mistakenly decided to establish its franchise in places obviously unsympathetic to its cause, like those progressive southern states including Georgia, where it was founded. It's not like it's not the closest fast food restaurant to your workplace and your fellow co-workers like eating there and to overrule them you must convince every single one of them why it should be changed, after which they mention well itsn't it nice that you can be so particular when you still donate to your church every sunday, and you find to your horror that they compile a list of all the franchises you use that support causes against your philosophy, like that bar that won't recycle or your american apparel shirt with your wal-mart wallet. Come on, they say. Wouldn't it be easier just to forget about it and continue doing what we've been doing, you hypocrite? Upon which you say no, and eat alone at the taco bell two blocks down though you feel a slight tinge of guilt for how it has violated business ethics and cheated the populace of decent ingredients. Your co-workers then tease you forevermore for being fart mcbreath and so your performance noticeably drops in the next quarter.
What is this...I don't even
never underestimate the 1/2 lb cheesy potato burrito
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
So your suggestion for dealing with people who are so flawed in their thinking that they won't change their minds is to essentially do nothing. Look I get some of these jackasses won't change their minds even if a boycott ruins them (not saying that's going to be the case for Chick-Fil-A) but it's something people can do that will be more effective in trying to help a cause. If you don't agree with the practices of a business and you have viable alternative then you should take your money elsewhere. Losers and defeatist sit around and sob like little bitches about how it doesn't matter what they do, so they don't even make an attempt change the world with the tools they have available.
Pretty much the above. Avoiding a place to show your dissatisfaction does not hinder it in todays society. You need to go there more often, and take 16 minutes in the drive through ordering the lowest margin items. That drives people away with thoughts of terrible service, gets people to directly leave and not spend their money there. In addition if gays are organized in the area, they need to hold events inside doing the same as above and whoop it up. When you drive away the business in this manner, you raise awareness for regular people, create a good time for people in your cause, and drive away the people who aren't going to change thier mind.
Are you seriously suggesting that the best way to show your disapproval of a business is to go there as often as possible and bring as many friends as you can?
Perhaps not something so insidious but an actual picket line would probably be a measure appropriate to the threat
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Are you seriously suggesting that the best way to show your disapproval of a business is to go there as often as possible and bring as many friends as you can?
Don't forget "act like a complete cock when you're there". It always cracks me up how many lame excuses people will think up just so they don't have to give a shit about other people.
The thing is there are so many businesses and organizations worth protesting that one just doesn't have time to protest outside of everyone one of them (assuming you can get the permits to do so). There's also the issue where staying outside to protest also loses much of its punch if you continually do it.
A boycott is something that everyone can do and you can use word of mouth to get others on board. Depending on how many people take part, a boycott can be pretty effective because most business people are interested in profit.
The thing is there are so many businesses and organizations worth protesting that one just doesn't have time to protest outside of everyone one of them (assuming you can get the permits to do so). There's also the issue where staying outside to protest also loses much of its punch if you continually do it.
A boycott is something that everyone can do and you can use word of mouth to get others on board. Depending on how many people take part, a boycott can be pretty effective because most business people are interested in profit.
Not only can everyone take part in a boycott, it's also really easy! In fact it takes the opposite of doing an action! It's so easy it is literally doing nothing!
The thing is there are so many businesses and organizations worth protesting that one just doesn't have time to protest outside of everyone one of them (assuming you can get the permits to do so). There's also the issue where staying outside to protest also loses much of its punch if you continually do it.
A boycott is something that everyone can do and you can use word of mouth to get others on board. Depending on how many people take part, a boycott can be pretty effective because most business people are interested in profit.
Not only can everyone take part in a boycott, it's also really easy! In fact it takes the opposite of doing an action! It's so easy it is literally doing nothing!
But then you have white knights going and doing extra to support, overturning any negative impact. See Joe Wilson and "you lie", in a just world that man would of been shamed out of his job. Instead he recieved a insane amount of extra funding over his rivals when he went up for reelection and kept his seat.
I am not advocating being abusive or rude to people above(well, slowing the line for regular folks can be seen that way I suppose). Conduct the equivilent of a sit in or a "go slow" protest. Only I am pushing for a little more insidiousness in it, make it known you dont agree with their corporations views so they know why you are asking for extra napkins and sauce for your order of large fries and taking your time getting out of line and ordering.
Changing the companies cash flow is how they will reconsider things. They wont do it certainly because they were shamed or because of whats "right". a boycott doesn't accomplish what it used to.
Boycotting isn't just about you not going, it's about being part of a movement of people not going in order to send a public message about what is and is not acceptable.
And it can be quite effective.
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KalTorakOne way or another, they all end up inthe Undercity.Registered Userregular
Not only does it send a message to CFA (who are unlikely to change based on that alone), it also sends a message to every other large business. They don't want to get mixed up in an ugly boycott or be associated with it. Look at the Jim Henson Co. It isn't he average person not doing business with CFA that hurts them; it's the big corporations not doing business with them.
Well a boycott might be deemed lazy by some but I'd rather spend my limited time for demonstrations/political involvement showing up at the events that people can't hand wave away. That's the major problem with protesting outside some of these chains, you either get hand waved away because it's likely going to be small or people will just get use to you being outside the place.
I think it's a bit naive to say that a company doesn't feel the loss of costumers. Lets say someone that eats at Chick-Fil-A once a week spends about $8 (seems about right, I don't remember them being cheap) for each meal. During the course of a year that's $576 a year from one person. If a group of 10 people stop eating there for a year that's $5760 dollars out the window. If that number jumps up to a 100 that's $57600, bump it up to a 1k and the number ends up being $576000. Every bit hurts a business. This isn't like the like button at facebook.
Obviously, if one has the time to take other actions, they should but it's pretty fucking stupid to deride a boycott as useless because it's easy. It's better than nothing or would you rather people continue funneling cash to groups that will use to actively harm the rights of others?
WASHINGTON -- A Democratic Party source confirmed to The Huffington Post that the party will include a plank supporting marriage equality in its official platform at the upcoming convention.
The news, first reported by the Washington Blade, represents a historic and phenomenal win for LGBT rights groups, which could hardly have envisioned progress being made so quickly on this front.
The Democratic source relayed that officials unanimously agreed at a recent platform drafting committee meeting in Minneapolis to adopt language endorsing same-sex marriage. Several steps must be taken before the language is codified. A full platform committee will consider the draft in a meeting in Detroit in two weeks. It will then go to the convention delegates in Charlotte for final approval. But the deal is more or less final.
Retiring Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass), a member of the drafting committee who recently married his longtime partner, told the Advocate that the decision was reached without dissent...
There's no plan, there's no race to be run
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
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KalTorakOne way or another, they all end up inthe Undercity.Registered Userregular
People who accuse a boycott of being useless seem to assume that the baseline of behavior is patronizing the place, which is a pretty wild assumption to make, considering the number of different fast food options out there.
Boycotting isn't just about you not going, it's about being part of a movement of people not going in order to send a public message about what is and is not acceptable.
And it can be quite effective.
How long is your boycott of CFA going to last? A month? Until a new owner comes along?
WASHINGTON -- A Democratic Party source confirmed to The Huffington Post that the party will include a plank supporting marriage equality in its official platform at the upcoming convention.
The news, first reported by the Washington Blade, represents a historic and phenomenal win for LGBT rights groups, which could hardly have envisioned progress being made so quickly on this front.
The Democratic source relayed that officials unanimously agreed at a recent platform drafting committee meeting in Minneapolis to adopt language endorsing same-sex marriage. Several steps must be taken before the language is codified. A full platform committee will consider the draft in a meeting in Detroit in two weeks. It will then go to the convention delegates in Charlotte for final approval. But the deal is more or less final.
Retiring Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass), a member of the drafting committee who recently married his longtime partner, told the Advocate that the decision was reached without dissent...
so quickly on this front.
Well, only 40-odd years of lobbying and voting democratic before it became politically feasible to support it, sure.
Deebaseron my way to work in a suit and a tieAhhhh...come on fucking guyRegistered Userregular
People that want to boycott them are cool.
People that shop at business that are owned by people with distasteful views are cool.
People from the first group that try and shame the second group are insufferable geese.
Posts
battletag: Millin#1360
Nice chart to figure out how honest a news source is.
When will this happen?
Election day I believe.
Ends the world in glitter.
Will this be under its own category or will it be bundled under the candidates?
I am confused by this question.
I believe it will be voted on as a proposition, and like every other proposition on a ballot, it has nothing to do with the candidates up for elections.
The glitter will reflect most of the sunlight, all the plants will die, the light of cities will be reflected back off the fabulous cloud of dread
Got it, thanks!
Or it'll be made of a rare earth metal that's harmful in large quantities. Oh, the irony, we'll finally have enough of one those earth metals to really revolutionize something but it'll have contaminated all of our water and food.
battletag: Millin#1360
Nice chart to figure out how honest a news source is.
The Mormon church does great things with their money that don't have to do with gay rights/marriage at all. There's no way to keep track of how an organization spends every cent when you donate to something, especially a global institution like a church. You pretty much just made some ridiculous claims that have no foundation whatsoever. Still, I prefer donating to places that let you specify where the money goes, so at least you can help mitigate this kind of thing to the best of your ability.
3DS Friend Code: 1821-8991-4141
PAD ID: 376,540,262
battletag: Millin#1360
Nice chart to figure out how honest a news source is.
Eventually, you just feel bad from not doing/doing all the things you ought/oughtn't to do. It's not as if a person stops going to chick-fil-a and suddenly becomes the savior of the gay movement. It's not like chick-fil-a will suffer from you not going to it because it mistakenly decided to establish its franchise in places obviously unsympathetic to its cause, like those progressive southern states including Georgia, where it was founded. It's not like it's not the closest fast food restaurant to your workplace and your fellow co-workers like eating there and to overrule them you must convince every single one of them why it should be changed, after which they mention well itsn't it nice that you can be so particular when you still donate to your church every sunday, and you find to your horror that they compile a list of all the franchises you use that support causes against your philosophy, like that bar that won't recycle or your american apparel shirt with your wal-mart wallet. Come on, they say. Wouldn't it be easier just to forget about it and continue doing what we've been doing, you hypocrite? Upon which you say no, and eat alone at the taco bell two blocks down though you feel a slight tinge of guilt for how it has violated business ethics and cheated the populace of decent ingredients. Your co-workers then tease you forevermore for being fart mcbreath and so your performance noticeably drops in the next quarter.
Hence, the hit to productivity. If the business doesn't affect you at all it costs nothing for you to boycott it and you likewise are to be lauded for nothing for your contribution. You're not boycotting, you're picketing - trying to guilt those who frequent the establishment into not buying from the establishment. Picketing does have an obvious effect on your productivity since inaction on your part allows people to bypass your barricade. Picketing is usually reserved for businesses that treat their own customers poorly because they're worse at hiding that, but consider that businesses are actually very good at disguising where their money actually goes once they receive it from you. Perhaps another fast food chain in competition with chik-fil-a is a super secret super PAC donor to the Romney campaign, and they wanted chik-fil-a to take the hit to consolidate their funds into something more likely to succeed. If you are generally in charge of where your money goes, then how come the people who have almost all of it are dicks?
A pessimist that consigns him or herself to the idea that they have no fiscal control over ideologies will not be swayed by the argument that doing this action is at least a net good, however small, because they believe that doing it or not doing it doesn't matter at all in the long run. Like how donating to Africa is really a waste of time and only helps keep the oppressive regime running. It's these kinds of people that predicted the failure of the walker recall and occupy wall street and the continual worry that the ACA will be stripped to the bone, and though it may be argued that these are well disguised notes of progress, trying to shame them into participating when you haven't convinced them on principle is a waste of time. Perfect is the enemy of good? First prove it good.
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
What is this...I don't even
never underestimate the 1/2 lb cheesy potato burrito
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
battletag: Millin#1360
Nice chart to figure out how honest a news source is.
But I was pretty lost while reading his post.
Edit: This was at Paladin, not DiannaoChong. I missed that post when I responded.
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Don't forget "act like a complete cock when you're there". It always cracks me up how many lame excuses people will think up just so they don't have to give a shit about other people.
A boycott is something that everyone can do and you can use word of mouth to get others on board. Depending on how many people take part, a boycott can be pretty effective because most business people are interested in profit.
battletag: Millin#1360
Nice chart to figure out how honest a news source is.
Not only can everyone take part in a boycott, it's also really easy! In fact it takes the opposite of doing an action! It's so easy it is literally doing nothing!
It's like it was made specifically for americans
I am not advocating being abusive or rude to people above(well, slowing the line for regular folks can be seen that way I suppose). Conduct the equivilent of a sit in or a "go slow" protest. Only I am pushing for a little more insidiousness in it, make it known you dont agree with their corporations views so they know why you are asking for extra napkins and sauce for your order of large fries and taking your time getting out of line and ordering.
Changing the companies cash flow is how they will reconsider things. They wont do it certainly because they were shamed or because of whats "right". a boycott doesn't accomplish what it used to.
And it can be quite effective.
I think it's a bit naive to say that a company doesn't feel the loss of costumers. Lets say someone that eats at Chick-Fil-A once a week spends about $8 (seems about right, I don't remember them being cheap) for each meal. During the course of a year that's $576 a year from one person. If a group of 10 people stop eating there for a year that's $5760 dollars out the window. If that number jumps up to a 100 that's $57600, bump it up to a 1k and the number ends up being $576000. Every bit hurts a business. This isn't like the like button at facebook.
Obviously, if one has the time to take other actions, they should but it's pretty fucking stupid to deride a boycott as useless because it's easy. It's better than nothing or would you rather people continue funneling cash to groups that will use to actively harm the rights of others?
battletag: Millin#1360
Nice chart to figure out how honest a news source is.
Gay Marriage Plank Will Be In Democratic Party Platform At Convention
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
How long is your boycott of CFA going to last? A month? Until a new owner comes along?
Well, only 40-odd years of lobbying and voting democratic before it became politically feasible to support it, sure.
Outside of the 24 hour news cycle and looking at other social movements. I'd say taking 40 years is pretty quick.
battletag: Millin#1360
Nice chart to figure out how honest a news source is.
People that shop at business that are owned by people with distasteful views are cool.
People from the first group that try and shame the second group are insufferable geese.
The Palin family is just flat out fucking awful.