i guess you're going to have to tell me how to get how to get there.
Bravo sir. :^:
Also who cares if Bert and Ernie are or are not gay? I realize it's a kid's show, but I don't see how it matters one way or the other. I always thought it was a cute idea that they were a couple. I mean realistically they were probably more centered around an "Odd Couple" type of relationship.
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i guess you're going to have to tell me how to get how to get there.
Bravo sir. :^:
Also who cares if Bert and Ernie are or are not gay? I realize it's a kid's show, but I don't see how it matters one way or the other. I always thought it was a cute idea that they were a couple. I mean realistically they were probably more centered around an "Odd Couple" type of relationship.
Well, who cares if Rosita's an immigrant or (I think it was Kami? On the African version Sesame Square) is HIV-positive? Tolerance is one of the over-arching themes in most of Sesame Street, and quite a few characters exist mainly for that theme. I mean, at one point they had a racist seagull who hated Snuffleupagus. Bert and Ernie interactions have mostly been with each other, and have mainly been about getting along in the face of personality clashes, but interactions between them as a pair and the rest of the cast could be made into a new lesson.
Hevach on
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KageraImitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered Userregular
i guess you're going to have to tell me how to get how to get there.
Bravo sir. :^:
Also who cares if Bert and Ernie are or are not gay? I realize it's a kid's show, but I don't see how it matters one way or the other. I always thought it was a cute idea that they were a couple. I mean realistically they were probably more centered around an "Odd Couple" type of relationship.
Well, who cares if Rosita's an immigrant or (I think it was Kami? On the African version Sesame Square) is HIV-positive? Tolerance is one of the over-arching themes in most of Sesame Street, and quite a few characters exist mainly for that theme. I mean, at one point they had a racist seagull who hated Snuffleupagus. Bert and Ernie interactions have mostly been with each other, and have mainly been about getting along in the face of personality clashes, but interactions between them as a pair and the rest of the cast could be made into a new lesson.
Why is it neccisary to introduce preschoolers to any kind of sexuality? This is an age where they still think babies come from storks. They have the rest of their lives to become entangled in the can of worms that is sexuality, can we wait until they've learned to count to ten before dropping that bomb on them?
Personally I've never liked using kids TV shows to indoctrinate political stances into them, not even good ones.
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NocrenLt Futz, Back in ActionNorth CarolinaRegistered Userregular
i guess you're going to have to tell me how to get how to get there.
Bravo sir. :^:
Also who cares if Bert and Ernie are or are not gay? I realize it's a kid's show, but I don't see how it matters one way or the other. I always thought it was a cute idea that they were a couple. I mean realistically they were probably more centered around an "Odd Couple" type of relationship.
Well, who cares if Rosita's an immigrant or (I think it was Kami? On the African version Sesame Square) is HIV-positive? Tolerance is one of the over-arching themes in most of Sesame Street, and quite a few characters exist mainly for that theme. I mean, at one point they had a racist seagull who hated Snuffleupagus. Bert and Ernie interactions have mostly been with each other, and have mainly been about getting along in the face of personality clashes, but interactions between them as a pair and the rest of the cast could be made into a new lesson.
I don't have an issue with them being perceived as gay I think it's a fine idea, I was directing my comment at the people who didn't like the idea that they were.
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Personally I've never liked using kids TV shows to indoctrinate political stances into them, not even good ones.
Tolerance is one of the strongest themes of Sesame Street. Always has been.
This should not be a political issue. It is an issue of tolerance and societal acceptance. You might as well say that Sesame Street shouldn't do bits on how stealing is wrong, why we shouldn't bully other kids, or why it's okay to be friends with people of all colors and creeds. All of which are things they have done.
And just because they have gay puppets does not mean there will be gay puppet sex or even the broaching of explicit conversation.
simply that two guys or two girls can like each other in that way and it is okay.
syndalis on
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KalTorakOne way or another, they all end up inthe Undercity.Registered Userregular
i guess you're going to have to tell me how to get how to get there.
Bravo sir. :^:
Also who cares if Bert and Ernie are or are not gay? I realize it's a kid's show, but I don't see how it matters one way or the other. I always thought it was a cute idea that they were a couple. I mean realistically they were probably more centered around an "Odd Couple" type of relationship.
Well, who cares if Rosita's an immigrant or (I think it was Kami? On the African version Sesame Square) is HIV-positive? Tolerance is one of the over-arching themes in most of Sesame Street, and quite a few characters exist mainly for that theme. I mean, at one point they had a racist seagull who hated Snuffleupagus. Bert and Ernie interactions have mostly been with each other, and have mainly been about getting along in the face of personality clashes, but interactions between them as a pair and the rest of the cast could be made into a new lesson.
Why is it neccisary to introduce preschoolers to any kind of sexuality? This is an age where they still think babies come from storks. They have the rest of their lives to become entangled in the can of worms that is sexuality, can we wait until they've learned to count to ten before dropping that bomb on them?
Personally I've never liked using kids TV shows to indoctrinate political stances into them, not even good ones.
If they were a gay couple, it would be perfectly simple to portray them as such without any reference to sexuality. I'm pretty sure kids' shows depict hetero marriages without talking about sex, it would be no different with a homosexual marriage.
You're falling into the trap of "homosexuals are defined only by the sex they have." anything hetero couples do on a kids show could be done by a homosexual couple.
i guess you're going to have to tell me how to get how to get there.
Bravo sir. :^:
Also who cares if Bert and Ernie are or are not gay? I realize it's a kid's show, but I don't see how it matters one way or the other. I always thought it was a cute idea that they were a couple. I mean realistically they were probably more centered around an "Odd Couple" type of relationship.
Well, who cares if Rosita's an immigrant or (I think it was Kami? On the African version Sesame Square) is HIV-positive? Tolerance is one of the over-arching themes in most of Sesame Street, and quite a few characters exist mainly for that theme. I mean, at one point they had a racist seagull who hated Snuffleupagus. Bert and Ernie interactions have mostly been with each other, and have mainly been about getting along in the face of personality clashes, but interactions between them as a pair and the rest of the cast could be made into a new lesson.
Why is it neccisary to introduce preschoolers to any kind of sexuality? This is an age where they still think babies come from storks. They have the rest of their lives to become entangled in the can of worms that is sexuality, can we wait until they've learned to count to ten before dropping that bomb on them?
Personally I've never liked using kids TV shows to indoctrinate political stances into them, not even good ones.
If they were a gay couple, it would be perfectly simple to portray them as such without any reference to sexuality. I'm pretty sure kids' shows depict hetero marriages without talking about sex, it would be no different with a homosexual marriage.
You're falling into the trap of "homosexuals are defined only by the sex they have." anything hetero couples do on a kids show could be done by a homosexual couple.
Are there any heterosexual couples on Sesame Street? The whole street seems to be built on the perceptions and assumptions of toddlers, with the puppets basically being adultified children, and as such have no real perception of romantic love.
Of course, there's also the fact that the two, as an odd couple, would make a terribly incompatible marriage and would need a divorce.
i guess you're going to have to tell me how to get how to get there.
Bravo sir. :^:
Also who cares if Bert and Ernie are or are not gay? I realize it's a kid's show, but I don't see how it matters one way or the other. I always thought it was a cute idea that they were a couple. I mean realistically they were probably more centered around an "Odd Couple" type of relationship.
Well, who cares if Rosita's an immigrant or (I think it was Kami? On the African version Sesame Square) is HIV-positive? Tolerance is one of the over-arching themes in most of Sesame Street, and quite a few characters exist mainly for that theme. I mean, at one point they had a racist seagull who hated Snuffleupagus. Bert and Ernie interactions have mostly been with each other, and have mainly been about getting along in the face of personality clashes, but interactions between them as a pair and the rest of the cast could be made into a new lesson.
Why is it neccisary to introduce preschoolers to any kind of sexuality? This is an age where they still think babies come from storks. They have the rest of their lives to become entangled in the can of worms that is sexuality, can we wait until they've learned to count to ten before dropping that bomb on them?
Personally I've never liked using kids TV shows to indoctrinate political stances into them, not even good ones.
I always thought Bert and Ernie were basically Oscar and Felix for the kindergarten set! They are pretty much designed to teach how to get along with people who are different from you...since you don't always have to like your roommates but you do have to learn to deal w/it
Sesame Street always had little analog in- jokes and pop culture references, and that's what I thought they were supposed to be. I don't care what orientation they have, they're puppets.
And wow, how unsurprised am I at that Sarah Palin photo. What a useless human being.
KalTorakOne way or another, they all end up inthe Undercity.Registered Userregular
There were plenty of human characters on the show when I was growing up (Gordon, Mr. Hooper, I forget her name but I want to say Maria?). They were all adults, I'd be surprised if none of them were married.
There were plenty of human characters on the show when I was growing up (Gordon, Mr. Hooper, I forget her name but I want to say Maria?). They were all adults, I'd be surprised if none of them were married.
They were never actually shown having lives, though. They're written like teachers, basically, with the occasional Mrs. but never any contact with the implied spouse.
If they're gay then Bert's a pedophile because Ernie is repeatedly portrayed as an elementary school age kid.
This is where I'm coming from too, they're not people, they're puppets. I get that they have some references to heterosexual relationships in there too (Kermit & Piggy) and frankly, I think they should loose those. Just have the puppets be puppets, let why kermit and piggy smoosh their faces together or why timmy has two dads be a discussion for another day.
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syndalisGetting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Productsregular
edited July 2012
It's not about sex, guys. It doesn't have to address sex at all.
You do know kids in elementary school can realize that they are "different". It is not a bad thing to lay a little groundwork early on to let them know they don't need to feel weird or ashamed of this.
edit: even if it isn;t B&E, it can be through other channels. I mean, why is it okay to say Black and White kids can play together freely, or just because someone is Muslim doesn't mean you should be afraid of them... but as soon as you mention gay stuff, it's all political and "don't touch that topic in front of my kids"?
syndalis on
SW-4158-3990-6116
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
It's not about sex, guys. It doesn't have to address sex at all.
You do know kids in elementary school can realize that they are "different". It is not a bad thing to lay a little groundwork early on to let them know they don't need to feel weird or ashamed of this.
edit: even if it isn;t B&E, it can be through other channels. I mean, why is it okay to say Black and White kids can play together freely, or just because someone is Muslim doesn't mean you should be afraid of them... but as soon as you mention gay stuff, it's all political and "don't touch that topic in front of my kids"?
Probably because sexuality doesn't usually pertain to the children at that age. So it's probably wise to avoid the whole topic.
Same with religion. It's been a while since I watched Sesame Street, so I'm not sure if they have any over religious themes, but I would hope they would avoid that as well.
Both should be something left to the parents to explain.
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KalTorakOne way or another, they all end up inthe Undercity.Registered Userregular
It's not about sex, guys. It doesn't have to address sex at all.
You do know kids in elementary school can realize that they are "different". It is not a bad thing to lay a little groundwork early on to let them know they don't need to feel weird or ashamed of this.
edit: even if it isn;t B&E, it can be through other channels. I mean, why is it okay to say Black and White kids can play together freely, or just because someone is Muslim doesn't mean you should be afraid of them... but as soon as you mention gay stuff, it's all political and "don't touch that topic in front of my kids"?
Basically because people can't get your first two sentences into their heads.
They categorize gay people exclusively by the kind of sex they have, so in their mind, being gay is all about sex, and therefore kids shouldn't hear about it because kids shouldn't hear about sex. The absurdity is shown when you try to think about heterosexual couples the same way. A mother and father taking their kid for a walk aren't shoving sex in your face any more than two fathers doing the same thing are. But if you think of homosexuals only as sex-categorized people, then anything that touches on that aspect of their life will have the stink of sex on it.
Basically to homophobes, anything that challenges heir ability to pretend gay people don't exist is shoving gay sex in their (and their childrens') faces.
syndalisGetting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Productsregular
Well, back when I was watching Mr Hooper was Jewish, there is a Hindu muppet now, supposedly.
That said, they never ever make a big deal about these things, they simply show by example that people of different EVERYTHING can live together in harmony.
"Leaving it to the parents" is almost universally a bad idea.
SW-4158-3990-6116
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KageraImitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered Userregular
I have never been a fan of hiding homosexuality and race issues from kids. The sooner you expose them to these issues the easier it is for them to tolerate diversity later on. Hiding that from them just narrows their worldview later on in life.
There were plenty of human characters on the show when I was growing up (Gordon, Mr. Hooper, I forget her name but I want to say Maria?). They were all adults, I'd be surprised if none of them were married.
They were never actually shown having lives, though. They're written like teachers, basically, with the occasional Mrs. but never any contact with the implied spouse.
Well, back when I was watching Mr Hooper was Jewish, there is a Hindu muppet now, supposedly.
It was implied back in 2002 or so that Snuffleupagus was if not Muslim than some vague representation of Arab culture - The whole racist seagull arc I mentioned - according to wikipedia that ended in a big lecture from Big Bird about how some people are different, and different can be scary, but we shouldn't etc etc etc. Basically the entire post-9-11 hate fever wrapped up in a half hour of silliness without actually mentioning WHY people can be different. A similar story went around Rosita - a vaguely Mexican character that came to Sesame Street from somewhere else and a couple characters thought she should go back there because she was different. Queue basically same speech about people being different, everybody's friends, time for the Count to get some screen time.
The show's very good at handling religion, culture, and race without mentioning religion, culture, or race. There's no reason to expect their treatment of homosexuality to be any different. Bert and Ernie act different than Kermit and Piggy, that seems kinda weird to some people, stuff happens, things are said, people decide it's not so weird after all, happy ending.
Hevach on
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KageraImitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered Userregular
No obviously big bird will explain in graphic detail all the various fetishes in stereotypical gay culture. Butches and bears and power bottoms and glory holes.
No obviously big bird will explain in graphic detail all the various fetishes in stereotypical gay culture. Butches and bears and power bottoms and glory holes.
And the next week Sesame Street Convention Hall hosts a furry convention.
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syndalisGetting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Productsregular
No obviously big bird will explain in graphic detail all the various fetishes in stereotypical gay culture. Butches and bears and power bottoms and glory holes.
I now can't get the image of Snuffleupagus putting his trunk in a glory hole out of my head.
Thanks, Internet.
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KageraImitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered Userregular
I bet that trash can has a glory hole too.
My neck, my back, my FUPA and my crack.
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syndalisGetting ClassyOn the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Productsregular
being homosexual should be exclusively about sex anyway. What does it say about society when you are very attached to a person but you don't love them in 'that' way, they have to automatically be relegated to some lower friendship heirarchy while you're still on the hunt for 'the one?' Being gay should be distinguishable from homosexuality, at which point it would be odd to have a label for that kind of thing as it pertains to love at all.
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
being homosexual should be exclusively about sex anyway. What does it say about society when you are very attached to a person but you don't love them in 'that' way, they have to automatically be relegated to some lower friendship heirarchy while you're still on the hunt for 'the one?' Being gay should be distinguishable from homosexuality, at which point it would be odd to have a label for that kind of thing as it pertains to love at all.
So you're saying homosexual marriage is ok, but not gay marriage?
Posts
Bravo sir. :^:
Also who cares if Bert and Ernie are or are not gay? I realize it's a kid's show, but I don't see how it matters one way or the other. I always thought it was a cute idea that they were a couple. I mean realistically they were probably more centered around an "Odd Couple" type of relationship.
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Huh, doing my research it is set in New York City.
I assumed it was just a random location, like Springfield.
My apologies to you and nocren.
Switch: 6200-8149-0919 / Wii U: maximumzero / 3DS: 0860-3352-3335 / eBay Shop
You'll have to put this in a context for those of us who don't know who those people are.
They're douchebags.
Looks like Lisa Ann and whomever she's dating right now.
Switch: 6200-8149-0919 / Wii U: maximumzero / 3DS: 0860-3352-3335 / eBay Shop
Douchebags holding douchebags.
Ahhh, I've never seen her husband and I didn't recognise Palin with the shades on.
Ha, what a cretin that chick is.
Well, who cares if Rosita's an immigrant or (I think it was Kami? On the African version Sesame Square) is HIV-positive? Tolerance is one of the over-arching themes in most of Sesame Street, and quite a few characters exist mainly for that theme. I mean, at one point they had a racist seagull who hated Snuffleupagus. Bert and Ernie interactions have mostly been with each other, and have mainly been about getting along in the face of personality clashes, but interactions between them as a pair and the rest of the cast could be made into a new lesson.
I thought they were about to but decided they were too young to settle down and went to have more adventures.
No wait I think that's mamma Mia.
Why is it neccisary to introduce preschoolers to any kind of sexuality? This is an age where they still think babies come from storks. They have the rest of their lives to become entangled in the can of worms that is sexuality, can we wait until they've learned to count to ten before dropping that bomb on them?
Personally I've never liked using kids TV shows to indoctrinate political stances into them, not even good ones.
It's cool. Part of Sesame Street is learning new things.
I don't have an issue with them being perceived as gay I think it's a fine idea, I was directing my comment at the people who didn't like the idea that they were.
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Steam
This should not be a political issue. It is an issue of tolerance and societal acceptance. You might as well say that Sesame Street shouldn't do bits on how stealing is wrong, why we shouldn't bully other kids, or why it's okay to be friends with people of all colors and creeds. All of which are things they have done.
And just because they have gay puppets does not mean there will be gay puppet sex or even the broaching of explicit conversation.
simply that two guys or two girls can like each other in that way and it is okay.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
If they were a gay couple, it would be perfectly simple to portray them as such without any reference to sexuality. I'm pretty sure kids' shows depict hetero marriages without talking about sex, it would be no different with a homosexual marriage.
You're falling into the trap of "homosexuals are defined only by the sex they have." anything hetero couples do on a kids show could be done by a homosexual couple.
Are there any heterosexual couples on Sesame Street? The whole street seems to be built on the perceptions and assumptions of toddlers, with the puppets basically being adultified children, and as such have no real perception of romantic love.
Of course, there's also the fact that the two, as an odd couple, would make a terribly incompatible marriage and would need a divorce.
I always thought Bert and Ernie were basically Oscar and Felix for the kindergarten set! They are pretty much designed to teach how to get along with people who are different from you...since you don't always have to like your roommates but you do have to learn to deal w/it
Sesame Street always had little analog in- jokes and pop culture references, and that's what I thought they were supposed to be. I don't care what orientation they have, they're puppets.
And wow, how unsurprised am I at that Sarah Palin photo. What a useless human being.
Uncanny Magazine!
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They were never actually shown having lives, though. They're written like teachers, basically, with the occasional Mrs. but never any contact with the implied spouse.
This is where I'm coming from too, they're not people, they're puppets. I get that they have some references to heterosexual relationships in there too (Kermit & Piggy) and frankly, I think they should loose those. Just have the puppets be puppets, let why kermit and piggy smoosh their faces together or why timmy has two dads be a discussion for another day.
You do know kids in elementary school can realize that they are "different". It is not a bad thing to lay a little groundwork early on to let them know they don't need to feel weird or ashamed of this.
edit: even if it isn;t B&E, it can be through other channels. I mean, why is it okay to say Black and White kids can play together freely, or just because someone is Muslim doesn't mean you should be afraid of them... but as soon as you mention gay stuff, it's all political and "don't touch that topic in front of my kids"?
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
Probably because sexuality doesn't usually pertain to the children at that age. So it's probably wise to avoid the whole topic.
Same with religion. It's been a while since I watched Sesame Street, so I'm not sure if they have any over religious themes, but I would hope they would avoid that as well.
Both should be something left to the parents to explain.
Basically because people can't get your first two sentences into their heads.
They categorize gay people exclusively by the kind of sex they have, so in their mind, being gay is all about sex, and therefore kids shouldn't hear about it because kids shouldn't hear about sex. The absurdity is shown when you try to think about heterosexual couples the same way. A mother and father taking their kid for a walk aren't shoving sex in your face any more than two fathers doing the same thing are. But if you think of homosexuals only as sex-categorized people, then anything that touches on that aspect of their life will have the stink of sex on it.
Basically to homophobes, anything that challenges heir ability to pretend gay people don't exist is shoving gay sex in their (and their childrens') faces.
That said, they never ever make a big deal about these things, they simply show by example that people of different EVERYTHING can live together in harmony.
"Leaving it to the parents" is almost universally a bad idea.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
It was implied back in 2002 or so that Snuffleupagus was if not Muslim than some vague representation of Arab culture - The whole racist seagull arc I mentioned - according to wikipedia that ended in a big lecture from Big Bird about how some people are different, and different can be scary, but we shouldn't etc etc etc. Basically the entire post-9-11 hate fever wrapped up in a half hour of silliness without actually mentioning WHY people can be different. A similar story went around Rosita - a vaguely Mexican character that came to Sesame Street from somewhere else and a couple characters thought she should go back there because she was different. Queue basically same speech about people being different, everybody's friends, time for the Count to get some screen time.
The show's very good at handling religion, culture, and race without mentioning religion, culture, or race. There's no reason to expect their treatment of homosexuality to be any different. Bert and Ernie act different than Kermit and Piggy, that seems kinda weird to some people, stuff happens, things are said, people decide it's not so weird after all, happy ending.
Thanks, Internet.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
Even a trash can in the Upper East Side (supposedly where Sesame Street is set at) has a pretty high rent.
Can't blame Oscar.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
It would explain the grounchiness.
The harder the rain, honey, the sweeter the sun.
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
So you're saying homosexual marriage is ok, but not gay marriage?
I am so incredibly confused by your post.
Yes, that's Doogie Howser in Fairy Wings singing about shoes.
Is it an argument against marriage in toto?
Do you believe that there is a difference between gay and straight and homosexual?
Such a strange post.