Comic book Bane was an eminently boring character. His purpose from start to finish was to be a guy who broke Batman so they could do a whole character development arc for Batman and because the 90s was all about bigger, better, and more x-treem.
Him being superhuman was just kind of an afterthought, and strikingly similar to several Captain America plots I remember. Plots where Cap was outclassed because he couldn't fly or shoot lightning bolts out his ass but he won the day because of heart and heroism and all that kind of stuff.
In BB and TDK, it makes perfect sense. He knows that the city's main problem is not so much the criminals themselves , but the fear of them (and the corruption that causes). So he becomes a symbol, to make the criminals afraid and give regular people courage. He doesn't use guns and he doesn't kill, partly to make it clear that he's a Good Guy, partly to show off (like "look these crooks ain't so tough. I can take them all down with my BARE HANDS.
He knew that having a masked vigilante going around killing all the bad guys was not a sustainable solution to crime. that's why he sacrificed the woman he loved to save Harvey dent, and why the joker won even though he was caught. I love how those two movies were able to take such an awkward piece of canon, and make it believable even in such a violent and realistic setting.
But geez... TDKR just throws that all out the window. Despite Harvey's death, all of the crime and corruption is just magically gone. The police force is apparently clean and trustworthy, and batman is public enemy #1 so not using guns doesn't really prove anything. Against Bane, who is immune to Batman's tricks and obviously stronger, not using guns just makes Batman look like an idiot (especially when cat woman blasts him so casually at the end). And since bane is planning to blow up the whole city with a nuke, Batman really shouldn't be messing around. It just makes him look like he has some irrational fear of guns... kind of strange for a man who claims to have no fear.
Point of order: he didn't, Joker just lied about who was where.
Actually re-watching TDK, I saw the scene where he was casually snapping a shotgun into pieces with his bare hands, that was a little weird.
The scene where Joker goes into the party? He's not snapping it. He's disassembling it.
yeah I love that disassembly. he;s so cavalier about it, its great.
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
The comic book conception of Bane isn't really a good fit for the nolan universe though; the comics have lots of supernatural/superhuman touches, while the nolanverse is all stylized realism.
And I mean, even in the comics/TAS they set Bane up as the anti-Batman: they're mostly-equally smart and physically gifted, but Bane has had pretty much as opposite an upbringing/training as possible.
this was the thing that I wish TDKR had paid off to a greater extent than it did; they play at setting Bane's faux-populism against Bruce Wayne's rich-playboy-vigilantism, but then they just kind of forget about that dichotomy when batman returns to gotham in the third act.
Well, without changing anything else that idea wouldn't work because Bane's plan was never really an appeal to populism, and due to that you can never be sure if Bane was ever even a populist or fighter for social equality at all.
Gotham was, through the course of the series, chock full of downtrodden underclass citizens. How the LoS was going to "restore balance" by murdering a city rife with poverty is kind of a murky ambition.
total bane redux concept, spoilering because i don't know
instead of the mask, bane gets injections at a regular interval (daily, ever 4 hours, weekly, doesn't matter). now, we don't have a mask blocking his face so we can hear him and batman has a less ridiculous fight against bane because he learns bane's terrible secret and withholds him getting his medication and therefore can defeat him...yeah that's how i'm going to remember this moving playing out
Why not just make him Milhouse while you're at it and include a scene where Batman knocks the inhaler out of his hand.
total bane redux concept, spoilering because i don't know
instead of the mask, bane gets injections at a regular interval (daily, ever 4 hours, weekly, doesn't matter). now, we don't have a mask blocking his face so we can hear him and batman has a less ridiculous fight against bane because he learns bane's terrible secret and withholds him getting his medication and therefore can defeat him...yeah that's how i'm going to remember this moving playing out
Why not just make him Milhouse while you're at it and include a scene where Batman knocks the inhaler out of his hand.
Just saw this a second time and found I enjoyed it much more. Nolan packs so much into his films that you have to pay a lot of attention. Second time around lets you relax a little more. A second viewing also resolved a few of the timing issues I had the first time.
Such as Bruce leaving the prison just in time. It's still slightly jarring, but the scene before he gets out there are 23 days left, which could leave him plenty of time. Although that does leave Lucius in captivity for quite a while without his "trial".
The other big one was the stock market chase scene. It still doesn't make much sense going from day to pitch black, but when they leave the exchange it already starts to look dark.
Still think Hathaway is amazing and just wish the character was a little better written.
The comic book conception of Bane isn't really a good fit for the nolan universe though; the comics have lots of supernatural/superhuman touches, while the nolanverse is all stylized realism.
And I mean, even in the comics/TAS they set Bane up as the anti-Batman: they're mostly-equally smart and physically gifted, but Bane has had pretty much as opposite an upbringing/training as possible.
this was the thing that I wish TDKR had paid off to a greater extent than it did; they play at setting Bane's faux-populism against Bruce Wayne's rich-playboy-vigilantism, but then they just kind of forget about that dichotomy when batman returns to gotham in the third act.
Well, without changing anything else that idea wouldn't work because Bane's plan was never really an appeal to populism, and due to that you can never be sure if Bane was ever even a populist or fighter for social equality at all.
Gotham was, through the course of the series, chock full of downtrodden underclass citizens. How the LoS was going to "restore balance" by murdering a city rife with poverty is kind of a murky ambition.
My understanding was that the LoS was not actually in the saving the world business, they were in the punishing the wicked business; they weren't restoring actual balance, but "karmic balance" by destroying what they thought was a giant symbol of corruption and evil. To them revenge is an end in itself.
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Mike Danger"Diane..."a place both wonderful and strangeRegistered Userregular
Just got back from the theater, my immediate thoughts
- The beginning of this movie is kind of all over the place. Bane's out there with this doctor guy! Bruce Wayne is Howard Hughes! Catwoman took Bruce's fingerprints! The mayor wants to get rid of Gordon!
- Anne Hathaway steals every scene she is in. Just great.
- Bane's voice got a lot clearer from the early trailers, but there were still a lot of lines where I was struggling to follow what he was saying. At one point, I even found myself thinking, "Thank God the DVD will have subtitles."
- The Ra's hallucination/dream was great, but Scarecrow popping up as the judge in Bane's kangaroo court was fucking perfect. I was grinning from ear to ear.
- I saw the Talia reveal coming from one of her first lines (something about the world and balance that seemed like it was taken right from Begins), but I think it happens too fast in the movie. In the space of ~10 minutes or so, she goes from "Bruce's maybe-love-interest" to "villain behind everything".
- The ending was great. I really thought Nolan had killed Batman, my dad and I were tearing up at the graveyard scene with Alfred, and then BOOM the autopilot works, Blake finds the cave, and Alfred comes across Selina and Bruce.
Overall, I think I like it more than Begins, but less than Dark Knight
Just got back from the theater, my immediate thoughts
- The beginning of this movie is kind of all over the place. Bane's out there with this doctor guy! Bruce Wayne is Howard Hughes! Catwoman took Bruce's fingerprints! The mayor wants to get rid of Gordon!
- Anne Hathaway steals every scene she is in. Just great.
- Bane's voice got a lot clearer from the early trailers, but there were still a lot of lines where I was struggling to follow what he was saying. At one point, I even found myself thinking, "Thank God the DVD will have subtitles."
- The Ra's hallucination/dream was great, but Scarecrow popping up as the judge in Bane's kangaroo court was fucking perfect. I was grinning from ear to ear.
- I saw the Talia reveal coming from one of her first lines (something about the world and balance that seemed like it was taken right from Begins), but I think it happens too fast in the movie. In the space of ~10 minutes or so, she goes from "Bruce's maybe-love-interest" to "villain behind everything".
- The ending was great. I really thought Nolan had killed Batman, my dad and I were tearing up at the graveyard scene with Alfred, and then BOOM the autopilot works, Blake finds the cave, and Alfred comes across Selina and Bruce.
Overall, I think I like it more than Begins, but less than Dark Knight
Pretty much agree point for point.
The Talia reveal was just not well done.
I felt like there was way too much going on at once.
Anne Hathaway was great as Selena Kyle.
I felt like Bale's Batman voice was worse this time around. I've never been a huge fan, but it really got to me this time.
Just got back from the theater, my immediate thoughts
- The beginning of this movie is kind of all over the place. Bane's out there with this doctor guy! Bruce Wayne is Howard Hughes! Catwoman took Bruce's fingerprints! The mayor wants to get rid of Gordon!
- Anne Hathaway steals every scene she is in. Just great.
- Bane's voice got a lot clearer from the early trailers, but there were still a lot of lines where I was struggling to follow what he was saying. At one point, I even found myself thinking, "Thank God the DVD will have subtitles."
- The Ra's hallucination/dream was great, but Scarecrow popping up as the judge in Bane's kangaroo court was fucking perfect. I was grinning from ear to ear.
- I saw the Talia reveal coming from one of her first lines (something about the world and balance that seemed like it was taken right from Begins), but I think it happens too fast in the movie. In the space of ~10 minutes or so, she goes from "Bruce's maybe-love-interest" to "villain behind everything".
- The ending was great. I really thought Nolan had killed Batman, my dad and I were tearing up at the graveyard scene with Alfred, and then BOOM the autopilot works, Blake finds the cave, and Alfred comes across Selina and Bruce.
Overall, I think I like it more than Begins, but less than Dark Knight
Pretty much agree point for point.
The Talia reveal was just not well done.
I felt like there was way too much going on at once.
Anne Hathaway was great as Selena Kyle.
I felt like Bale's Batman voice was worse this time around. I've never been a huge fan, but it really got to me this time.
Really? I felt Bale's batvoice was much better in this then in TDK. It seemed like they moved it back towards Batman Begins.
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Mike Danger"Diane..."a place both wonderful and strangeRegistered Userregular
One other comment
The moment at the beginning when Catwoman realizes the jig is up and Wayne knows who she is, and she goes from "demure maid" to "brazen thief" in 2 seconds is perfect. I almost wish they'd kept her casting a secret (hey, they sort of did it with Kevin Spacey in Se7en) just so we could be surprised.
The moment at the beginning when Catwoman realizes the jig is up and Wayne knows who she is, and she goes from "demure maid" to "brazen thief" in 2 seconds is perfect. I almost wish they'd kept her casting a secret (hey, they sort of did it with Kevin Spacey in Se7en) just so we could be surprised.
Just re-watched Batman Begins, and I'm sure this has been cleared up many times now, but his party is for his 30th birthday. I'd wager that puts him at around 40 during TDKR?
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AManFromEarthLet's get to twerk!The King in the SwampRegistered Userregular
39
One year between BB and TDK and eight years between TDK and TDKR.
I really enjoyed this movie, but I can't help but think it might have been a little better if
Batman had still been active between TDK and DKR. Maybe he could be gradually wearing down, feeling his age catching up with him, but still going anyway. It seems to me like that would smooth out his progression, instead of him being gone, coming back, being gone, coming back again.
I saw it again. Some of the time of day issues seemed to not be as big a deal as I had imagined them to be.
The stock market thing? Every cut away it gradually got darker. Though it seems it took place over a much larger time span than 8 minutes (movie magic I guess) but it did gradually get dusk/night every time they changed scenes.
The batman with catwoman scene where he gives her the batpod shows that it's dawn as she rides away. So it being light after 45 minutes is fine.
I guess now my biggest problem is why the shit did he waste so much time with the huge gasoline bat? Everything else seemed reasonable in the time spans they gave. Batman getting back to Gotham in a Month was fine. I'd like to see how he got back on the island though.
Fox not getting sentenced right away was fine, seemed like there might have been a backlog of people or something. They made an exception for the police probably.
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
I guess now my biggest problem is why the shit did he waste so much time with the huge gasoline bat? Everything else seemed reasonable in the time spans they gave. Batman getting back to Gotham in a Month was fine. I'd like to see how he got back on the island though.
He wasted so much time on the huge gasoline bat to send a message, both to Bane and the citizens of Gotham. Batman is back.
As for how he got back on the island: he's the goddamn Batman, that's how he got back.
Comic book Bane was an eminently boring character. His purpose from start to finish was to be a guy who broke Batman so they could do a whole character development arc for Batman and because the 90s was all about bigger, better, and more x-treem.
Him being superhuman was just kind of an afterthought, and strikingly similar to several Captain America plots I remember. Plots where Cap was outclassed because he couldn't fly or shoot lightning bolts out his ass but he won the day because of heart and heroism and all that kind of stuff.
Yeah for his debut arc.
After that they developed him into a pretty decent character and he pretty much stopped using Venom after his debut( though his costume still had the tubes for some reason)
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Do you think it would have made the movie better, though?
I kinda liked that they had quite a few things where it was, I guess, a matter of 'he's fucking Batman!'. We saw him do a lot of mundane-ish thing in the first movie ("you have to order 20.000 of this gadget" or whatever), but by the third movie it's very, 'yeah, he's Batman, that's how'. I do realize that some people found that aspect of it to be a flaw, though. I liked that, at times, they were willing to just get on with it. And hell, maybe they should have done that a bit more.
Comic book Bane was an eminently boring character. His purpose from start to finish was to be a guy who broke Batman so they could do a whole character development arc for Batman and because the 90s was all about bigger, better, and more x-treem.
Him being superhuman was just kind of an afterthought, and strikingly similar to several Captain America plots I remember. Plots where Cap was outclassed because he couldn't fly or shoot lightning bolts out his ass but he won the day because of heart and heroism and all that kind of stuff.
Yeah for his debut arc.
After that they developed him into a pretty decent character and he pretty much stopped using Venom after his debut( though his costume still had the tubes for some reason)
Bane's gone back & forth on using venom. He fought Hourman II on venom in JSA Declassified, for example.
I assumed that he got back over the ice, as a call back to all his time with Ra's fighting on frozen lakes in BB.
Either that, or by using the Batwing. Once you realise that it had an autopilot, the possibility of him summoning it to pick him up from Wayne Manor (which I don't think is on the island) becomes apparent.
[Muffled sounds of gorilla violence]
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
Wanna get one of those black and white bat symbol posters, vaguely considering trying to get a BB and TDK poster too, but I don't think they had any that'd go well with the minimalist DKR poster. :P
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Stephen Fry apperantly did a good job as Reginald Jeeves in the 90's. Martin Jarvis and Richard Kline have also pulled off the role.
For my money, though, it should be William Shatner, Stan Lee, or Paul Mooney.
Him being superhuman was just kind of an afterthought, and strikingly similar to several Captain America plots I remember. Plots where Cap was outclassed because he couldn't fly or shoot lightning bolts out his ass but he won the day because of heart and heroism and all that kind of stuff.
yeah I love that disassembly. he;s so cavalier about it, its great.
Well, without changing anything else that idea wouldn't work because Bane's plan was never really an appeal to populism, and due to that you can never be sure if Bane was ever even a populist or fighter for social equality at all.
Gotham was, through the course of the series, chock full of downtrodden underclass citizens. How the LoS was going to "restore balance" by murdering a city rife with poverty is kind of a murky ambition.
One of the greatest screen villains there ever was and will be.
Why not just make him Milhouse while you're at it and include a scene where Batman knocks the inhaler out of his hand.
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The other big one was the stock market chase scene. It still doesn't make much sense going from day to pitch black, but when they leave the exchange it already starts to look dark.
Still think Hathaway is amazing and just wish the character was a little better written.
My understanding was that the LoS was not actually in the saving the world business, they were in the punishing the wicked business; they weren't restoring actual balance, but "karmic balance" by destroying what they thought was a giant symbol of corruption and evil. To them revenge is an end in itself.
- Anne Hathaway steals every scene she is in. Just great.
- Bane's voice got a lot clearer from the early trailers, but there were still a lot of lines where I was struggling to follow what he was saying. At one point, I even found myself thinking, "Thank God the DVD will have subtitles."
- The Ra's hallucination/dream was great, but Scarecrow popping up as the judge in Bane's kangaroo court was fucking perfect. I was grinning from ear to ear.
- I saw the Talia reveal coming from one of her first lines (something about the world and balance that seemed like it was taken right from Begins), but I think it happens too fast in the movie. In the space of ~10 minutes or so, she goes from "Bruce's maybe-love-interest" to "villain behind everything".
- The ending was great. I really thought Nolan had killed Batman, my dad and I were tearing up at the graveyard scene with Alfred, and then BOOM the autopilot works, Blake finds the cave, and Alfred comes across Selina and Bruce.
Overall, I think I like it more than Begins, but less than Dark Knight
Pretty much agree point for point.
I felt like there was way too much going on at once.
Anne Hathaway was great as Selena Kyle.
I felt like Bale's Batman voice was worse this time around. I've never been a huge fan, but it really got to me this time.
Really? I felt Bale's batvoice was much better in this then in TDK. It seemed like they moved it back towards Batman Begins.
Yeah that was one of my favorite scenes of hers.
One year between BB and TDK and eight years between TDK and TDKR.
The batman with catwoman scene where he gives her the batpod shows that it's dawn as she rides away. So it being light after 45 minutes is fine.
I guess now my biggest problem is why the shit did he waste so much time with the huge gasoline bat? Everything else seemed reasonable in the time spans they gave. Batman getting back to Gotham in a Month was fine. I'd like to see how he got back on the island though.
Fox not getting sentenced right away was fine, seemed like there might have been a backlog of people or something. They made an exception for the police probably.
As for how he got back on the island: he's the goddamn Batman, that's how he got back.
Yeah for his debut arc.
After that they developed him into a pretty decent character and he pretty much stopped using Venom after his debut( though his costume still had the tubes for some reason)
Do you think it would have made the movie better, though?
I kinda liked that they had quite a few things where it was, I guess, a matter of 'he's fucking Batman!'. We saw him do a lot of mundane-ish thing in the first movie ("you have to order 20.000 of this gadget" or whatever), but by the third movie it's very, 'yeah, he's Batman, that's how'. I do realize that some people found that aspect of it to be a flaw, though. I liked that, at times, they were willing to just get on with it. And hell, maybe they should have done that a bit more.
Bane's gone back & forth on using venom. He fought Hourman II on venom in JSA Declassified, for example.
Either that, or by using the Batwing. Once you realise that it had an autopilot, the possibility of him summoning it to pick him up from Wayne Manor (which I don't think is on the island) becomes apparent.