Guys, guys. Let's shake hands, go to our separate lockers, and call it a day, yeah? We know where you both stand, so maybe future anger can be taken to PMs?
Yes, I would much rather talk about how the mafia won this one.
People that know from previous games will know that I often try to let people run with things without my taking the reins. Because people whine about OMG INFIDEL DIRECTING EVERYTHING SO BORED.
(But usually they just cock things up, le sigh.)
I told kime that I would take over if he died and I was still alive. He didn't send me anything related to secrets, I don't think he was tracking that shit. He told me who claimed what, which is why I wanted to vote out psolms. (He claimed every-day guard, when we clearly had everything even/odd split from the rest of the claims.)
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Erin The RedThe Name's Erin! Woman, Podcaster, Dungeon Master, IT nerd, Parent, Trans. AMABaton Rouge, LARegistered Userregular
People that know from previous games will know that I often try to let people run with things without my taking the reins. Because people whine about OMG INFIDEL DIRECTING EVERYTHING SO BORED.
(But usually they just cock things up, le sigh.)
I told kime that I would take over if he died and I was still alive. He didn't send me anything related to secrets, I don't think he was tracking that shit. He told me who claimed what, which is why I wanted to vote out psolms. (He claimed every-day guard, when we clearly had everything even/odd split from the rest of the claims.)
The split was something we definitely didn't know, and I'm glad now you didn't have control over the network haha
People that know from previous games will know that I often try to let people run with things without my taking the reins. Because people whine about OMG INFIDEL DIRECTING EVERYTHING SO BORED.
(But usually they just cock things up, le sigh.)
I told kime that I would take over if he died and I was still alive. He didn't send me anything related to secrets, I don't think he was tracking that shit. He told me who claimed what, which is why I wanted to vote out psolms. (He claimed every-day guard, when we clearly had everything even/odd split from the rest of the claims.)
The split was something we definitely didn't know, and I'm glad now you didn't have control over the network haha
Yeah, it was like "here are the even/odd vigs, the even/odd seers (I think X died our odd day seer ), the even/odd guards."
"Oh, and psolms claims to be an every day guard. :rotate:"
kime wanted to vig instead of vote, and before that he wanted to waste a seering to confirm it.
And for no reason at all (?) tells him something that is effectively only going to have one consequence, being HEY MAFIA YOU CAN KILL A CONFIRMED VILLAGER. YOU KNOW, IF YOU WANT TO.
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Erin The RedThe Name's Erin! Woman, Podcaster, Dungeon Master, IT nerd, Parent, Trans. AMABaton Rouge, LARegistered Userregular
I think a lot of our victory was based on very lucky breaks. Cards fell when they did and in just the right order for us to walk through the second half of the game almost unscathed.
I think a lot of our victory was based on very lucky breaks. Cards fell when they did and in just the right order for us to walk through the second half of the game almost unscathed.
I'd like to think we skillfully manipulated the village vote and threw suspicion on people to keep ourselves out of the firing line.
I had spool figured pretty early on(looks like day 2 or so from PMs) but was given different vig targets each time it came up. At least he got seered and killed eventually, I just wish he died before he figured me as a special.
Also this was a pretty fun time, thanks for running ahava!
I had spool figured pretty early on(looks like day 2 or so from PMs) but was given different vig targets each time it came up. At least he got seered and killed eventually, I just wish he died before he figured me as a special.
Also this was a pretty fun time, thanks for running ahava!
Ooh, what tipped you off?
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Erin The RedThe Name's Erin! Woman, Podcaster, Dungeon Master, IT nerd, Parent, Trans. AMABaton Rouge, LARegistered Userregular
Ok I think I'm good for now avatar-wise. Sorry @Infidel! @SaberOverEasy, we need to work more on our phalla! I wanna be a host again
I had spool figured pretty early on(looks like day 2 or so from PMs) but was given different vig targets each time it came up. At least he got seered and killed eventually, I just wish he died before he figured me as a special.
Also this was a pretty fun time, thanks for running ahava!
I had spool figured pretty early on(looks like day 2 or so from PMs) but was given different vig targets each time it came up. At least he got seered and killed eventually, I just wish he died before he figured me as a special.
Also this was a pretty fun time, thanks for running ahava!
Ooh, what tipped you off?
Your early days posts seemed too well thought out and it felt like you were fishing for info with me in PMs, I mentioned it to kime. A day or 2 later you really helped push that vote on Anialos and that sealed the deal for me, but I think I died that night.
heh, yeah if you'd strung me along with small info instead of going silent I never would've caught on. You guys could've been feeding me disinformation!
Well-thought early day posts are a thing I like doing though. I just never survive long enough to get noticed.
Yeah, I had a hectic work week leading into a long road trip weekend. I could have played that a lot better. As soon as my name came up in the narration I realized that it was probably because of you.
Oh well live and learn.
Erin The RedThe Name's Erin! Woman, Podcaster, Dungeon Master, IT nerd, Parent, Trans. AMABaton Rouge, LARegistered Userregular
After working with some of you, I have learned to trust none of you.
Also, trying to misdirect people when they straight up ask me "are you mafia?" when I actually am is both fun and stressful at the same time.
Not lying to folks adds satisfying levels of difficulty to the pile
I'm pretty much resigned at this point to always being presumed guilty until proven innocent.
(which made this game a particular treat since nobody seemed to suspect me at all)
:ar!
I didn't suspect you this game because I always suspect you but then you always end up being village and also super helpful. I figured you earned a pass. Whoops.
@Orange Soda there was a point where you told me you'd submitted your secret for the next day. I rewrote my response 5 different times, but I kept feeling like I'd be giving the game away... so I just wrote "ahhh" and let it drop.
I was hoping for a slip up or a mafia kill dropped on me. I seemed to have got the latter. I'm surprised you didn't have an outright clarification that my secret was useless. I'm surprised you wasted a kill on me.
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sportzboytjwsqueeeeeezzeeeesome more tax breaks outRegistered Userregular
@spool32 I had basically 0 knowledge. I was too irl busy.
Walkerdog on MTGO
TylerJ on League of Legends (it's free and fun!)
@Orange Soda there was a point where you told me you'd submitted your secret for the next day. I rewrote my response 5 different times, but I kept feeling like I'd be giving the game away... so I just wrote "ahhh" and let it drop.
I was hoping for a slip up or a mafia kill dropped on me. I seemed to have got the latter. I'm surprised you didn't have an outright clarification that my secret was useless. I'm surprised you wasted a kill on me.
I did know your secret was useless, but I wasn't going to let on. I didn't think the kill was wasted though! I thought you were perhaps one of the guards, but I was more suspicious of dio.
Well the boards getting borked probably screwed things up a bit. I'd say the thing that probably got the village the most was people not trusting kime when he was revealed despite the fact that the host said no thralls or millers.
I'm on the fence with whether or not the public seering helped or hurt the village. Sure it might have given people an incentive to be quiet but it also allowed for people to be confirmed in a manner that prevents anyone from mucking things up and really the village should keep talking despite having a public seer. Mafia are going to kill helpful people regardless, staying quiet just makes it easier for them and harder for specials to do things in the public thread.
On the secret front, I'm going to echo orange soda's sentiments that it sucked that spool was outing secrets. I wouldn't mind if the system was set up so that only the holder of the secret could void it's power by mentioning it in public. I doubt that would make them that much more powerful, since it seems by the time the mafia wants render them void, you'd have already lost a fair number to people dying.
On the secret front, I'm going to echo orange soda's sentiments that it sucked that spool was outing secrets.
Personally I enjoyed this part, mostly because the mafia couldn't use their secrets without being killed and they had no other powers apart from the mafia kills.
Megafrost on
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Erin The RedThe Name's Erin! Woman, Podcaster, Dungeon Master, IT nerd, Parent, Trans. AMABaton Rouge, LARegistered Userregular
edited August 2012
I was getting frustrated by that, and I was on the other team!
(The Kime distrust)
Yeah, I'd say the kim distrust is a good example of where people just need to quietly bash the meta game over the fucking head when it doesn't line up with how the game is working.
Yeah, I'd say the kim distrust is a good example of where people just need to quietly bash the meta game over the fucking head when it doesn't line up with how the game is working.
I was laughing super-hard about that, by the way, because in this game it was the VILLAGE getting all concerned about whether or not to trust Kime as network head. Last time Kime was network head I was also mafia, and we had to do the work of undermining his authority. In this game we could just support him and sit back and cast suspicion on the folks who were uncertain (sorry @Tzeentchling )
As for burning secrets... yeah, well. From our perspective it was a gamble that could have killed us all. But we had to stop as much extra power use as we could! And yeah - the secrets we were assigned were utterly useless to us except as blocking devices to prevent the village using them. Apart from that, they would only serve to get a network kill called on whoever did it after day 2. If I hadn't been publicly outed, we never would have done it.
I know it was helpful to the mafia but I feel it was still in bad form.
It's pretty disrespectful to the host to sit there and be like but the narration might be trixies even though the host said no thralls or millers. I'd probably less annoyed about it if it was solely mafia because their job is to sow discord in the village but it was entirely villager.
Edit: to clarify, I'm only referring to the nonsense where people were insisting that the no millers or thralls thing didn't apply to public seering.
I think the things villagers did that were most helpful to the mafia were:
a: langly getting the discipline vote for his mistake. It made people tentative with secrets, and I think it further cements that the village through the last few games has been more predictable and disciplined with less tolerance for chaotic actions. Also saved psolms on day 1.
b: people doubting kime. It was a fantastic thing to talk about for us, because it distracted everyone for a day and gave the mafia easy ways to look legit by making the obvious points and joking with each other and with kime while frowning at the dangerous villagers. Also, instant legit throwaway vote for days.
On the secret front, I'd be a little worried about RNG overly favoring mafia with secret outing. You could run into a scenario where all 10 of the mafia secrets are useful ones and all of them end up in villager hands. Since we don't know who wrote the secrets, there is nothing to stop a mafia who is about to die (worse case, one getting voted out day 1) from touching base with the rest of the mafia and out all 10 of those secrets. On top of that, since public seering and post restrictions aren't helpful, they could easily throw in those on top of what they wrote to prevent the village from easily networking. So have 7 or more people who don't have a secret power that may or may not be village, I'm assuming vig/mafia kills will hit a few people holding voided secrets most of the time. You only need to add one or two mafia, good chance they'll get whacked but it'll sow enough distrust to buy time to thin the ranks and keep the network from being solid early on.
I don't know if some recalibrating would be in order to bring secrets down in power, it might be needed if the mafia can't out secrets they wrote. It really depends on what ahava anticipated.
On the secret front, I'd be a little worried about RNG overly favoring mafia with secret outing. You could run into a scenario where all 10 of the mafia secrets are useful ones and all of them end up in villager hands. Since we don't know who wrote the secrets, there is nothing to stop a mafia who is about to die (worse case, one getting voted out day 1) from touching base with the rest of the mafia and out all 10 of those secrets. On top of that, since public seering and post restrictions aren't helpful, they could easily throw in those on top of what they wrote to prevent the village from easily networking. So have 7 or more people who don't have a secret power that may or may not be village, I'm assuming vig/mafia kills will hit a few people holding voided secrets most of the time.
I don't know if some recalibrating would be in order to bring secrets down in power, it might be needed if the mafia can't out secrets they wrote. It really depends on what ahava anticipated.
You're missing an important component here. If the kimenetwork had done good data collection, there is a strong chance that exposing our Created Secrets would have exposed all of us. It was our gamble that the network was in shambles and kime's repeated calls for more communication that left me feeling like we could do it safely, but if I'd been wrong... it would have been like handing the network a list of Who To Kill Next.
That's why I only did it for the dead mafia. And TRV, who never told kime the secret he created. I lied and claimed it was exarch's.
Well the boards getting borked probably screwed things up a bit. I'd say the thing that probably got the village the most was people not trusting kime when he was revealed despite the fact that the host said no thralls or millers.
I still don't think Kime was village. Are we sure he wasn't a death thrall? )))))))
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Yes, I would much rather talk about how the mafia won this one.
(But usually they just cock things up, le sigh.)
I told kime that I would take over if he died and I was still alive. He didn't send me anything related to secrets, I don't think he was tracking that shit. He told me who claimed what, which is why I wanted to vote out psolms. (He claimed every-day guard, when we clearly had everything even/odd split from the rest of the claims.)
The split was something we definitely didn't know, and I'm glad now you didn't have control over the network haha
Yeah, it was like "here are the even/odd vigs, the even/odd seers (I think X died our odd day seer
"Oh, and psolms claims to be an every day guard. :rotate:"
kime wanted to vig instead of vote, and before that he wanted to waste a seering to confirm it.
And for no reason at all (?) tells him something that is effectively only going to have one consequence, being HEY MAFIA YOU CAN KILL A CONFIRMED VILLAGER. YOU KNOW, IF YOU WANT TO.
I'd like to think we skillfully manipulated the village vote and threw suspicion on people to keep ourselves out of the firing line.
Because we did!
Also this was a pretty fun time, thanks for running ahava!
3DS: 1289-8447-4695
We are beyond the realm of your command. You cannot hope to contain or control us now
Yessssss
Ooh, what tipped you off?
@SaberOverEasy, we need to work more on our phalla! I wanna be a host again
Maybe your spool-ish ways. :rotate:
The Black Hole of Cygnus X-1
Your early days posts seemed too well thought out and it felt like you were fishing for info with me in PMs, I mentioned it to kime. A day or 2 later you really helped push that vote on Anialos and that sealed the deal for me, but I think I died that night.
3DS: 1289-8447-4695
Well-thought early day posts are a thing I like doing though. I just never survive long enough to get noticed.
Until now.
Oh well live and learn.
3DS: 1289-8447-4695
Also, trying to misdirect people when they straight up ask me "are you mafia?" when I actually am is both fun and stressful at the same time.
Not lying to folks adds satisfying levels of difficulty to the pile
You can never trust him!
But dammit, I have no choice!
Look at this: http://doublesecret.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=11&page=3#498
I know I was wrong about the amount of seering you could so, but apart from that how accurate was I?
Not necessarily! I'm unpredictable!
I'll take a few deaths as village to throw people off my trail as mafia :-D
Addendum: Always kill him, just in case!
(which made this game a particular treat since nobody seemed to suspect me at all)
:ar!
I didn't suspect you this game because I always suspect you but then you always end up being village and also super helpful. I figured you earned a pass. Whoops.
3DS: 1289-8447-4695
I get so bummed when I die early. Don't kill me. Think of my face. Look at it.
looooooooook.
SWEAR TO ME
I was hoping for a slip up or a mafia kill dropped on me. I seemed to have got the latter. I'm surprised you didn't have an outright clarification that my secret was useless. I'm surprised you wasted a kill on me.
TylerJ on League of Legends (it's free and fun!)
I did know your secret was useless, but I wasn't going to let on. I didn't think the kill was wasted though! I thought you were perhaps one of the guards, but I was more suspicious of dio.
I'm on the fence with whether or not the public seering helped or hurt the village. Sure it might have given people an incentive to be quiet but it also allowed for people to be confirmed in a manner that prevents anyone from mucking things up and really the village should keep talking despite having a public seer. Mafia are going to kill helpful people regardless, staying quiet just makes it easier for them and harder for specials to do things in the public thread.
On the secret front, I'm going to echo orange soda's sentiments that it sucked that spool was outing secrets. I wouldn't mind if the system was set up so that only the holder of the secret could void it's power by mentioning it in public. I doubt that would make them that much more powerful, since it seems by the time the mafia wants render them void, you'd have already lost a fair number to people dying.
battletag: Millin#1360
Nice chart to figure out how honest a news source is.
Personally I enjoyed this part, mostly because the mafia couldn't use their secrets without being killed and they had no other powers apart from the mafia kills.
(The Kime distrust)
battletag: Millin#1360
Nice chart to figure out how honest a news source is.
I was laughing super-hard about that, by the way, because in this game it was the VILLAGE getting all concerned about whether or not to trust Kime as network head. Last time Kime was network head I was also mafia, and we had to do the work of undermining his authority. In this game we could just support him and sit back and cast suspicion on the folks who were uncertain (sorry @Tzeentchling )
:P
As for burning secrets... yeah, well. From our perspective it was a gamble that could have killed us all. But we had to stop as much extra power use as we could! And yeah - the secrets we were assigned were utterly useless to us except as blocking devices to prevent the village using them. Apart from that, they would only serve to get a network kill called on whoever did it after day 2. If I hadn't been publicly outed, we never would have done it.
Weakening the village however we can is our job!
It's pretty disrespectful to the host to sit there and be like but the narration might be trixies even though the host said no thralls or millers. I'd probably less annoyed about it if it was solely mafia because their job is to sow discord in the village but it was entirely villager.
Edit: to clarify, I'm only referring to the nonsense where people were insisting that the no millers or thralls thing didn't apply to public seering.
battletag: Millin#1360
Nice chart to figure out how honest a news source is.
a: langly getting the discipline vote for his mistake. It made people tentative with secrets, and I think it further cements that the village through the last few games has been more predictable and disciplined with less tolerance for chaotic actions. Also saved psolms on day 1.
b: people doubting kime. It was a fantastic thing to talk about for us, because it distracted everyone for a day and gave the mafia easy ways to look legit by making the obvious points and joking with each other and with kime while frowning at the dangerous villagers. Also, instant legit throwaway vote for days.
I don't know if some recalibrating would be in order to bring secrets down in power, it might be needed if the mafia can't out secrets they wrote. It really depends on what ahava anticipated.
battletag: Millin#1360
Nice chart to figure out how honest a news source is.
You're missing an important component here. If the kimenetwork had done good data collection, there is a strong chance that exposing our Created Secrets would have exposed all of us. It was our gamble that the network was in shambles and kime's repeated calls for more communication that left me feeling like we could do it safely, but if I'd been wrong... it would have been like handing the network a list of Who To Kill Next.
That's why I only did it for the dead mafia. And TRV, who never told kime the secret he created. I lied and claimed it was exarch's.
I still don't think Kime was village. Are we sure he wasn't a death thrall?