Send me a message with your wikia account name and I'll make sure everyone that wants access to edit can.
I've got the pages ready for the races and classes, so we can put what we have there so far.
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TiamatZGhost punsThe Banette of my existenceRegistered Userregular
Also, for people looking to help some way, here are a couple of ways:
- Offer some advice regarding what you'd like to see become part of the Tabletop game (eg. Antimatter asking if Polonium Rounds will be back. Answer: Yes, as an Ammo Power)
- Offer some critique regarding the balance of the current classes, races and ideas
- Write some feats, powers or items you'd like to see added. Heck, Alpha version Advance classes (Paragon Paths) are also accepted.
- If you'd like, post some ME artwork that you'd think would look appropriate for the game, then by all means go for it (NSFW images NOT recommended).
Basically, we'd like to get as many people as possible involved.
Currently working on the Adept class. Thinking on making this a Psion/Invoker/Wizard hybrid, with two example builds: Bastion and Nemesis builds. Bastion adepts will focus on field manipulation in the form of zones (for example, they get Singularity as a class feature) .Nemesis adepts will basically be a Controller/Striker build, having access to Detonator, Primer and DoT powers that inflict damage (they will get Warp as their default Power, an At-Will DoT power).
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AntimatterDevo Was RightGates of SteelRegistered Userregular
edited August 2012
Saw something about classes I was surprised by
Justicars, battlemasters, spectres as advanced classes
I was thinking specializations exclusively
I didn't see the second half of that post above mine because I am blind.
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Lord Palingtonhe.him.hisHistory-loving pal!Registered Userregular
Yeah, I like that idea specifically because we can do something like a Justicar prestige class - requirements: Level 11, Asari, Biotic class
Spectre - requirements: Level 11, badass.
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GrogMy sword is only steelin a useful shape.Registered Userregular
Yeah, I like that idea specifically because we can do something like a Justicar prestige class - requirements: Level 11, Asari, Biotic class
Spectre - requirements: Level 11, badass*.
*,not human
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Lord Palingtonhe.him.hisHistory-loving pal!Registered Userregular
Well, if we're going completely canon, I guess it'd be Turian, Asari, and Salarian only, and after a point (humans join the council), humans could too.
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TiamatZGhost punsThe Banette of my existenceRegistered Userregular
edited August 2012
From the ME Wiki:
Each Spectre is hand-picked by the Council after proving that they are an individual of exceptional ability and self-reliance. In theory Spectres can be chosen from any race; in practice they are usually selected from the Council races. Having a Spectre chosen from their kind often raises a particular species' profile on the Citadel.
SO I was thinking the following requirements are needed:
- Level 11
- A member of the Council Races (Not really a requirement, but it does state they do come from those races the most part)
- 1 Class Specific Feat and 1 Race Specific Feat (emphasizing the 'individual of exceptional ability and self-reliance' part; they have to represent the best of their species and rank)
- Be assessed by an official Spectre (This isn't exactly new; Nihlus went along Shephard during ME1 and Saren was with Anderson in the novels. This could be more of a GM decision, and that he/she should be informed in advance during a campaign should a player wish to become one).
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Lord Palingtonhe.him.hisHistory-loving pal!Registered Userregular
So there I was, putting TiamatZ's racial write-ups in the wiki, and it won't let me post the Batarian text. It ran into the spam filter somehow. I'm wondering if it's the talk of slavery, terrorists, or what?
Anyway, I have most of the races up, then we can get the classes up and all that jazz.
PS: Double check my stuff. I had to reformat everything when I copied it over, so I may have missed something. Also, if you have a wikia account (they're free), try editing something. I couldn't find anywhere to give people permission, but I could find a ban button, so I think it's default open to anyone. If it isn't, let me know, and I'll figure it out.
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AntimatterDevo Was RightGates of SteelRegistered Userregular
the spamfilter caught a question mark symbol in middle of the "Encounter Tech" part of Blade Armor
Bookmarked that Wikia. Are there any areas that need specific attention?
PSN: ChemENGR
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Lord Palingtonhe.him.hisHistory-loving pal!Registered Userregular
edited August 2012
Awesome, thanks for doing that. I need to get better at wiki, because I noticed a weird line-break in it, fixed it, which broke some more of it, so I had to fix that...
Let me know if you guys see any other obvious mistakes that I make.
Super - we've got the basics of the races ready to go, and the classes that TiamatZ has done so far look ready for an alpha playtest. I don't think we really have any vanguard powers set yet, and we're not 100% sure on how we're doing the guns/ammo part of the game. The big thing is if you've played your share of mass effect, dnd4e, or both, is to see if the races and classes so far have a Mass Effect "feel" and look halfway balanced according to D&D 4e.
We also haven't touched biotic implants or omni tools as implements at all yet, so if you've got some ideas on that front, we'd love to hear them.
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AntimatterDevo Was RightGates of SteelRegistered Userregular
so, the geth description says that they don't have a hive mind like the rachni, but Hive Mind is one of the geth benefits. I would suggest that the name be changed to Networked Mind, or something along those lines.
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Lord Palingtonhe.him.hisHistory-loving pal!Registered Userregular
I seem to recall the phrase "Geth Consensus" from one of the games. I can't remember if that's what they call themselves, or if a squadmate used it.
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AntimatterDevo Was RightGates of SteelRegistered Userregular
Geth Consensus absolutely works, it's how geth come up with decisions
could instead of paragon paths or whatever, have things like battle master and such as themes. gets you an extra encounter power and what not.
Or at least some of them work better as themes. lie the paladin would work better as a theme then a paragon path i figure. gets you an omni shield that does, something. not sure what yet.
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Lord Palingtonhe.him.hisHistory-loving pal!Registered Userregular
edited August 2012
Damn, I did have themes somewhere in my original doc.
Well, turns out I had a place for themes, but I never put anything down for them. Maybe someone who's pretty awesome at the lore would be able to help out here?
Blood Pack Merc
Eclipse Merc
Blue Suns Merc
Colonist
Spacer
Earth(home planet)born
C-Sec training
Ambassador/Diplomat training
Professional (sport that Shepherd gets the Amalur/Dragon Age DLC armor from) player
Nobility/Rich
Black Ops training (not a full fledged member, but the beginning of the training)
I think something like Paladin would be a class feature of a Sentinel - choose tech armor or omni-shield.
Engineer - choose turret, drone, decoy, or pylon.
To me, themes in 4e are more open to most character types. Having class/race specific themes isn't what 4e does. Doesn't mean we can't, I guess.
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AntimatterDevo Was RightGates of SteelRegistered Userregular
Just created a page based on TiamatZ's pdf for Engineer, hope that's alright. It was trying to format that in a decent looking way. Did some copy-editing, fixed some typos, removed a weird invisible line of text about invokers from the pdf (?) http://me3dnd4e.wikia.com/wiki/Engineer
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Lord Palingtonhe.him.hisHistory-loving pal!Registered Userregular
I like the formatting job. I couldn't find a way to color code stuff in the wiki (green for at-will, etc).
TiamatZ - the basic build looks pretty good. Why did you go with dex as the main ability for engineers?
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AntimatterDevo Was RightGates of SteelRegistered Userregular
Thanks! Tried my best to format it, wanted to add color myself.
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TiamatZGhost punsThe Banette of my existenceRegistered Userregular
Damn, I did have themes somewhere in my original doc.
Well, turns out I had a place for themes, but I never put anything down for them. Maybe someone who's pretty awesome at the lore would be able to help out here?
Blood Pack Merc
Eclipse Merc
Blue Suns Merc
Colonist
Spacer
Earth(home planet)born
C-Sec training
Ambassador/Diplomat training
Professional (sport that Shepherd gets the Amalur/Dragon Age DLC armor from) player
Nobility/Rich
Black Ops training (not a full fledged member, but the beginning of the training)
To me, themes in 4e are more open to most character types. Having class/race specific themes isn't what 4e does. Doesn't mean we can't, I guess.
-Instead of three separate mercenary themes, I think it's better just to go with one Mercenary theme archetype, then allow PCs with that theme the option of choosing one of those (or any other) factions at a later level. Most of those factions DO test potential recruits after all.
-Colonist looks solid
-Spacer's a nice addition; might have bonuses on starship skills (like maintenance, control, defense etc.) when the PCs are on ships.
-Earth(Planet)born sounds too vague for a theme. The Earthborn background for Shephard was that he was part of a gang back on Earth. Perhaps replace this with an Urchin background (worked for Mouse on the Citadel)
- Instead of C-Sec training, C-Sec Officer (or Rookie) sounds much better
-Ambassador/Diplomat I see having bonuses in Politics and Charisma skills.
- A Professional Sports Player sounds like a nice addition to themes (enhanced Athletics/Acrobatics skills anyone?)
- Not really seeing a theme for Operatives (Note: I think we should call the PCs this instead of Adventurers for the ME setting, what do you guys think?) with Nobility/Rich backgrounds, but we could find a way to make it work somehow.
- This theme is kinda vague. Is it referring to the N7 program, the STG, or professions like the Asari Commando or the Compact made between the Hanar/Drell? Again, we should probably be more careful with this; either scrap it, or actually dissect it and create more themes around this concept.
TiamatZ - the basic build looks pretty good. Why did you go with dex as the main ability for engineers?
Back in 2010, when I was brainstorming ideas for classes, I went with the basic WTM (Warrior, Thief, Mage) archetypes as class inspirations (focusing on each of the archetypes and their 'default' Attribute usually associated in most tabletop games: Strength for warriors, Dexterity for thieves, and Intelligence or Wisdom for mages [which was later replaced with Charisma]). Since there were six classes, I figured I'd split them evenly into groups of 3. I'd make the Warrior (AKA, the tank and damage dealing class) focus on Strength as its main statistic, with Attributes that usually help them survive or move in battle (In this case, Constitution and or Dexterity). Soldiers and Vanguards easily filled this role (with their action-oriented battle abilities in-game and 'in your face' attitudes).
Next, thieves in tabletop games were generally quick, dextrous classes that were usually light on their feet, were street smart, cunning, jack-of-all-trades or filled the role as the Warrior support, offering (and receiving) flanks for/from their allies, and dealing damage as quickly as possible. Since the Infiltrator was the class that was all about subterfuge and cunning (in this case the sneaky, stabby rogues from yore), Engineers were all about battle support (ability to call drones, hurl grenades and powers that crippled synthetic targets) and be the Jack-of-all trades class. Also, and that in real life hacking required an analytical mind, quick thinking and rapid hand-eye movement. So I decided to make Engineers a Dex-based class as well (made sense at the time).
That left mages as the last archetype. It took a while to decide what Attribute would influence biotics. I finally decided to stick with Charisma, since it was usually an attribute that signified strength of personality and force of will. Therefore, I decided to go with Charisma as the third main Attribute in the game (Huzzah! Not a dump stat anymore!). That left me with Adepts and Sentinels as the 'mages' for the tabletop.
tl;dr version: here's the table I designed back in 2010, showing what each class' 4th edition counterpart(s) was (were), as well as what their main (and secondary) attributes were.
But of course, this is an Alpha build, so it'll be subject for change of course.
@Anti: Glad you can help us format the Wiki articles. Greatly appreciate it.
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AntimatterDevo Was RightGates of SteelRegistered Userregular
I live to serve, TiamatZ-Commander.
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Lord Palingtonhe.him.hisHistory-loving pal!Registered Userregular
Themes:
Agree on the mercenary themes, that works fine. The noble/rich theme was just me wanting to rip off the Noble theme from 4e (good team maneuver powers, free upgraded equipment at level 6, etc, it's a solid theme), though I suppose even the rich and famous occasionally join up in the military. I have a feeling turians would lean toward it more than most, but any race or class could choose it. This is why I was vague about the SpecOps theme, I didn't want to do a Salarian STG theme (since that would probably be a racial prestige/advanced class), or any other race/nation specific ones, just some basic stealth training (and maybe a distraction power from level 1 that lets you get into stealth or gain CA or something). Also agree on Urchin and C-Sec ideas.
Attributes:
Soldier - Agree on Strength main, Dex and Con as backups should be fine.
Engineer - I think Intelligence might be more appropriate for an Engineer's main stat, what with all the book learning required for the job. Dex should definitely be a back up stat (striker backup?), with maybe Charisma as well (leader back up - geth turret and supply pylon help buff).
Adept - I was thinking Wisdom should be their main. Charisma could be a good backup.
Infiltrator - looks fine to me.
Sentinel - What with their survivability, maybe Constitution as their main?
Vanguard - Strength and Charisma should be really important, as you need to have a lot of confidence in yourself to charge yourself across a battlefield and punch a Brute in the face.
Items:
So I figured it out. ME3 put it right in front of me, and I didn't see it. You can upgrade any gun you have between a I and a V, so that's how we do a Mattock +1 through +5, come up with the base stats for the Mattock, then give it +1 attack/damage for each rank in it. Armor could be the same way, along with the armor "pieces" (leg slot, arm slot, hand slot, neck slot, etc).
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TiamatZGhost punsThe Banette of my existenceRegistered Userregular
edited August 2012
Just posting an update: I'm not dead or anything, but I'm working on the Sentinel alongside the Adept as well, but got some RL stuff to finish first as well.
Regarding themes:
If your looking for a theme that has bonuses to stealth (and to be a candidate for distraction powers), have you tried a Thief theme? There is after all, a famous master thief established in the game universe.
I also agree on the item upgrades regarding weapons.
Regarding a Sentinel: I've realised that Sents are both Biotic AND Tech users, which means they get access to both Biotic amps and Omni tools. I figured as a class feature (calling it Implement Specialization), Sents can choose which implement to be proficient with (with extra bonuses attached to them, of course) and lose access to the other one, or the option to use both (but only get half the bonus of each for balance purposes). More to follow...
Edit: Anyone know of any good Sentinel quotes ingame? I'm finding it rather difficult to find some.
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Lord Palingtonhe.him.hisHistory-loving pal!Registered Userregular
I couldn't find much for sentinels (as the only ones around were Miranda and some no-name NPCs), but we should find a spot for "Had to be me. Someone else might have gotten it wrong."
I'm not sure if sentinel is the place for it, but they are a pretty versatile class.
If Adept and Vanguard are getting power points, Sentinel could be like the monk and not get any. Either that, or the class bonus choices could be as follows:
Biotic Focus: Gain 2 power points at first level, level up at appropriate rate.
Tech Focus: Gain a free Superior Implement Feat (Omni Tool only).
Balanced: Gain 1 power point, level up at half rate, deal 2 extra damage on biotic and tech explosions.
That way, they can use both implements and be able to choose from both power sets, but a biotic or balanced focus could augment biotic at-wills/items, tech would get some options (Accurate Omni-tool is a +1 to attacks, or access to other item qualities), and balanced would benefit a mixed (tech and biotic) team better by setting off bigger explosions.
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TiamatZGhost punsThe Banette of my existenceRegistered Userregular
edited August 2012
Then the powers should be balanced in that, if PCs go for Biotic Focus, they can't choose Encounter Powers (what with the Augmentable keyword most biotic powers would have). Or how will Balanced work then?
Personally, I'd rather let the Adept be the only class with Augmentation points, therefore giving the class some uniqueness when compared to the other classes.
Or what's everyone else's thoughts on this?
Edit: Though that is technically a Mordin reference, it does kinda fit with the versatile nature of Sentinel.
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AntimatterDevo Was RightGates of SteelRegistered Userregular
Kaidan is a sentinel
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TiamatZGhost punsThe Banette of my existenceRegistered Userregular
edited August 2012
Hmm, guess I'll find some quotes from him then.
By the way, didn't Vigil (from ME1) also used the word 'sentinel' once in it's dialogue? Or was my mind pulling tricks on me it Reaper indoctrination?
Edit: Oooh, here's a nice one from Kaidan, waaay back in ME1
“I’ve always held back a little when I used my powers on living targets. Fear of hurting someone, I guess. After what I saw on Eden Prime, I’m not holding back any more. Not against the Geth, not against anyone!” – Kaidan Alenko
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Lord Palingtonhe.him.hisHistory-loving pal!Registered Userregular
To be honest, I've never seen Kaidan dialogue past ME1.
Okay, so if power points are adept only, why not:
Biotic Focus: Tech Armor gains Biotic Resistance (X per tier)
Tech Focus: Tech Armor restores (X per tier) shields upon detonation
Balanced Focus: Add +2/tier to any biotic explosion or tech detonation
Something like that? Since Tech Armor is the defining part of the class, the choice should have to do with that. Also, the riders for powers might change based on your choice.
Sentinel Overload
If Tech Focus, deal (mod) electric damage to a secondary target within 3 squares of the original
If Biotic Focus, daze organic target until EoNT
Sentinel Warp
If Balanced Focus, Warp gains the Tech Detonator keyword.
Dazed might be a bit powerful for that. Why not a new Mass Effect appropriate keyword: Stagger.
Staggered:
You grant CA (maybe only to Ranged attacks?)
You lose your minor action.
You are no longer aiming or scoped in.
well, the tech/biotic choice shouldn't really define your secondary role. and if that is what defines your armour, i have no idea what you're working from here, then slapping more things onto that isn't the greatest idea.
I would suggest instead if sentinel is still being a leader then tech and biotic should work into whatever leader power they get and then powers reference that.
I also agree that sentinels shouldn't use augment points. I would argue nothing should but if someone has to then adept fits the best.
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Lord Palingtonhe.him.hisHistory-loving pal!Registered Userregular
Okay, so pulling back from the specifics a bit, Sentinel as Leader main, then either a trend toward Controller or Defender as secondary role, depending on powers/class abilities chosen - does that sound about right?
What's the plan on leaders? healing as a focus or something else?
I know in the game sentinels work best stripping defences, but that is best represented in powers. could do a healing thing augmented by tech or biotics. like the standard healing surge +mod +d6. maybe tech also returns some shields and biotics buffs their damage? it's a system independent of the controller/defender back up, but still might play to a strength one has.
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Lord Palingtonhe.him.hisHistory-loving pal!Registered Userregular
Not a bad system, and don't forget the rider effects on powers. For some classes, those are just as important as the class ability itself.
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TiamatZGhost punsThe Banette of my existenceRegistered Userregular
well, the tech/biotic choice shouldn't really define your secondary role. and if that is what defines your armour, i have no idea what you're working from here, then slapping more things onto that isn't the greatest idea.
I would suggest instead if sentinel is still being a leader then tech and biotic should work into whatever leader power they get and then powers reference that.
I also agree that sentinels shouldn't use augment points. I would argue nothing should but if someone has to then adept fits the best.
One of the reasons why I thought specializing in a certain implement would help, was the fact that Sentinels would need two implements in addition to a weapon (as opposed to the other classes, who either need a weapon and/or one single implement), so it would be a little bit more expensive for a Sentinel PC (unless of course, he/she ditches the weapon and go with only implements) than say, an Adept or Engineer. It won't define your role (the sentinel would have an equal list of biotic/tech based powers regardless of your secondary role), but would allow PCs the option of gaining an advantage towards one implement than the other, but also still give PCs the option in case they go for both.
In theory, that is.
However, I can see your point.
I was thinking, depending on what 'mastery' they choose, that both biotic and tech powers gain some unique bonus.
For example: PCs choosing the 'Raider' Mastery turn all their non-primer encounter and daily powers into biotic/tech detonators (to complement with other controllers on the field), whereas 'Guardian' PCs grant X Shield Points to all allies within 10 squares of him (where X is half his level plus his Charisma or Constitution modifier, whichever is highest) when using encounter and daily powers. In addition, when under the effects of Tech Armor, Guardian PCs will gain different bonuses to both biotic/tech attacks and powers (e.g. Damage reduction or Biotic/Tech Reduction, or increased power range), while Raider PCs would gain different bonuses when they 'detonate' their Tech Armor (things like slowing down targets in a close burst, or granting CA etc.). Lastly, to emphasize that Sentinels are Leaders, they can give PCs bonuses whenever their allies spend Action Points (much like the popular Warlord's Commanding Presence).
As for actual healing hit points, I'd rather limit that to rare encounter powers, daily powers and potions (or in the video game, medi-gel or ops packs) or miscellaneous items to deal with that. This would give gel (or packs) a more strategic importance (as well as wise investments for players) in the table top game, as well as removing the whole 'weneedaclericitis' mentality most game groups have (remember, just because the Sentinel's a leader, doesn't mean he should automatically qualify for the obligatory healbot status).
In addition, it's been a busy week IRL for me, so I'll only get the Sentinel (and maybe the Adept) builds up this weekend.
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Lord Palingtonhe.him.hisHistory-loving pal!Registered Userregular
Well, if we're not necessarily making the sentinel a healer (and it might be worth trying a design as a healer and one without down the line somewhere), the engineer could pick up the slack. They've got a couple of builds that can restore/buff shields in the multiplayer game.
So maybe something like the Warlord:
When an ally within 5 spends an action point to make an extra attack, +3 to the roll (or a modifier)
Allies within 10 gain a +1 initiative bonus (or a modifier)
Raider: Allies within 5 that detonate an explosion or burst do +2/+4 (tiered) damage (once per turn)
Guardian: Allies within 5 that detonate an explosion or burst regain 2/4 (tiered, maybe 3/6?) shields (once per turn - or maybe shift?)
Adding detonation capability to certain encounters/daily could be a rider on the powers, that way we don't have to balance every single power to detonate for the raider.
Also, speaking of Tech Armor - why not make them Daily like a barbarian rage? Different flavors could help with different things - Omni Shield, Juggernaut armor (-movement, bigger defense bonus), Trampling armor (pushing/sliding effects, +melee), stuff like that? Also, the detonation could either be specific to each power (with riders for raider/guardian), or the raider and guardian could each have their own, consistent detonation.
I don't know how far along you are on the basics for the sentinel, so if this would completely throw your work for a loop, let me know and I'll try and bring it more in line with what you have.
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TiamatZGhost punsThe Banette of my existenceRegistered Userregular
edited August 2012
I was reading a number of threads on DnD Alignments, and I was thinking that we'll either need to:
1) Retain 4th Edition's current alignment system
2) Scrap it
or 3) Use a Mass Effect "Morality" system
About the third option, players may choose either "Paragon", "Neutral", or "Renegade" when creating a character. Each part of the morality spectrum gains a +1 bonus to Diplomacy, Bluff and Intimidate respectively, and will be considered a 'fluctuating' bonus. Basically, the DM (or the other PCs, if allowed) would oversee how you RP your character's morality, choices and final actions in the game (by final, I'm assuming usually after every major assignment [aka Quest], and not during a fight). If your seemingly Paragon character starts sacrificing people needlessly around him, or relying on more and more ruthless actions, the DM can switch your morality towards Neutral (or even Renegade), causing you to lose the +1 skill bonus to diplomacy, and gain a +1 Bluff bonus (or +1 Intimidate) instead. In addition, I was thinking some feats might require a specific Morality when choosing them. Or is this just needlessly complicated (if so, we could just go for Option 2).
Thoughts/ideas people?
Edit: @LordPalington: Any progress on the Vanguard and Engineer class there? I'd like to see your take on the Engi as a Leader.
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AntimatterDevo Was RightGates of SteelRegistered Userregular
I'd say option 3.
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Lord Palingtonhe.him.hisHistory-loving pal!Registered Userregular
I haven't gotten much more work done, as one of the dogs had a trip to the ER at four in the morning this weekend, which kind of threw everything off. The dog is fine now.
I do have a little start on each, and I'll do a little more work today, starting with the engineer.
I like the Paragon/Renegade split, and with the way 4e (optionally) handles quests, skill challenges, and the like, DMs can even set up guidelines for themselves ahead of time (IE: If they complete the quest by killing the bad guy, renegade - if they complete the quest by rescuing the target with no civilian casualties, paragon). I also really like the 'Reputation' mechanic in ME3. You could keep track of the total of paragon/renegade/neutral point gains. High enough reputation around the galaxy could lead to things like different NPC interactions, VIP access to clubs, and even sponsorships!
My name is Lord Palington, and this is my favorite thread on the forums!
Posts
https://plans.pbworks.com/signup/basic20?utm_campaign=mcgetyourown&utm_source=personal
I guess that means: "yes"
PSN: ChemENGR
me3dnd4e.wikia.com/wiki/Me3dnd4e_Wiki
Send me a message with your wikia account name and I'll make sure everyone that wants access to edit can.
I've got the pages ready for the races and classes, so we can put what we have there so far.
- Offer some advice regarding what you'd like to see become part of the Tabletop game (eg. Antimatter asking if Polonium Rounds will be back. Answer: Yes, as an Ammo Power)
- Offer some critique regarding the balance of the current classes, races and ideas
- Write some feats, powers or items you'd like to see added. Heck, Alpha version Advance classes (Paragon Paths) are also accepted.
- If you'd like, post some ME artwork that you'd think would look appropriate for the game, then by all means go for it (NSFW images NOT recommended).
Basically, we'd like to get as many people as possible involved.
Currently working on the Adept class. Thinking on making this a Psion/Invoker/Wizard hybrid, with two example builds: Bastion and Nemesis builds. Bastion adepts will focus on field manipulation in the form of zones (for example, they get Singularity as a class feature) .Nemesis adepts will basically be a Controller/Striker build, having access to Detonator, Primer and DoT powers that inflict damage (they will get Warp as their default Power, an At-Will DoT power).
Justicars, battlemasters, spectres as advanced classes
I was thinking specializations exclusively
I didn't see the second half of that post above mine because I am blind.
Spectre - requirements: Level 11, badass.
*,not human
SO I was thinking the following requirements are needed:
- Level 11
- A member of the Council Races (Not really a requirement, but it does state they do come from those races the most part)
- 1 Class Specific Feat and 1 Race Specific Feat (emphasizing the 'individual of exceptional ability and self-reliance' part; they have to represent the best of their species and rank)
Anyway, I have most of the races up, then we can get the classes up and all that jazz.
PS: Double check my stuff. I had to reformat everything when I copied it over, so I may have missed something. Also, if you have a wikia account (they're free), try editing something. I couldn't find anywhere to give people permission, but I could find a ban button, so I think it's default open to anyone. If it isn't, let me know, and I'll figure it out.
PSN: ChemENGR
Let me know if you guys see any other obvious mistakes that I make.
Super - we've got the basics of the races ready to go, and the classes that TiamatZ has done so far look ready for an alpha playtest. I don't think we really have any vanguard powers set yet, and we're not 100% sure on how we're doing the guns/ammo part of the game. The big thing is if you've played your share of mass effect, dnd4e, or both, is to see if the races and classes so far have a Mass Effect "feel" and look halfway balanced according to D&D 4e.
We also haven't touched biotic implants or omni tools as implements at all yet, so if you've got some ideas on that front, we'd love to hear them.
Or at least some of them work better as themes. lie the paladin would work better as a theme then a paragon path i figure. gets you an omni shield that does, something. not sure what yet.
Well, turns out I had a place for themes, but I never put anything down for them. Maybe someone who's pretty awesome at the lore would be able to help out here?
Blood Pack Merc
Eclipse Merc
Blue Suns Merc
Colonist
Spacer
Earth(home planet)born
C-Sec training
Ambassador/Diplomat training
Professional (sport that Shepherd gets the Amalur/Dragon Age DLC armor from) player
Nobility/Rich
Black Ops training (not a full fledged member, but the beginning of the training)
I think something like Paladin would be a class feature of a Sentinel - choose tech armor or omni-shield.
Engineer - choose turret, drone, decoy, or pylon.
To me, themes in 4e are more open to most character types. Having class/race specific themes isn't what 4e does. Doesn't mean we can't, I guess.
http://me3dnd4e.wikia.com/wiki/Engineer
TiamatZ - the basic build looks pretty good. Why did you go with dex as the main ability for engineers?
Excellent idea Anti.
-Instead of three separate mercenary themes, I think it's better just to go with one Mercenary theme archetype, then allow PCs with that theme the option of choosing one of those (or any other) factions at a later level. Most of those factions DO test potential recruits after all.
-Colonist looks solid
-Spacer's a nice addition; might have bonuses on starship skills (like maintenance, control, defense etc.) when the PCs are on ships.
-Earth(Planet)born sounds too vague for a theme. The Earthborn background for Shephard was that he was part of a gang back on Earth. Perhaps replace this with an Urchin background (worked for Mouse on the Citadel)
- Instead of C-Sec training, C-Sec Officer (or Rookie) sounds much better
-Ambassador/Diplomat I see having bonuses in Politics and Charisma skills.
- A Professional Sports Player sounds like a nice addition to themes (enhanced Athletics/Acrobatics skills anyone?)
- Not really seeing a theme for Operatives (Note: I think we should call the PCs this instead of Adventurers for the ME setting, what do you guys think?) with Nobility/Rich backgrounds, but we could find a way to make it work somehow.
- This theme is kinda vague. Is it referring to the N7 program, the STG, or professions like the Asari Commando or the Compact made between the Hanar/Drell? Again, we should probably be more careful with this; either scrap it, or actually dissect it and create more themes around this concept.
Overall, nice ideas regarding themes there Lord.
Back in 2010, when I was brainstorming ideas for classes, I went with the basic WTM (Warrior, Thief, Mage) archetypes as class inspirations (focusing on each of the archetypes and their 'default' Attribute usually associated in most tabletop games: Strength for warriors, Dexterity for thieves, and Intelligence or Wisdom for mages [which was later replaced with Charisma]). Since there were six classes, I figured I'd split them evenly into groups of 3. I'd make the Warrior (AKA, the tank and damage dealing class) focus on Strength as its main statistic, with Attributes that usually help them survive or move in battle (In this case, Constitution and or Dexterity). Soldiers and Vanguards easily filled this role (with their action-oriented battle abilities in-game and 'in your face' attitudes).
Next, thieves in tabletop games were generally quick, dextrous classes that were usually light on their feet, were street smart, cunning, jack-of-all-trades or filled the role as the Warrior support, offering (and receiving) flanks for/from their allies, and dealing damage as quickly as possible. Since the Infiltrator was the class that was all about subterfuge and cunning (in this case the sneaky, stabby rogues from yore), Engineers were all about battle support (ability to call drones, hurl grenades and powers that crippled synthetic targets) and be the Jack-of-all trades class. Also, and that in real life hacking required an analytical mind, quick thinking and rapid hand-eye movement. So I decided to make Engineers a Dex-based class as well (made sense at the time).
That left mages as the last archetype. It took a while to decide what Attribute would influence biotics. I finally decided to stick with Charisma, since it was usually an attribute that signified strength of personality and force of will. Therefore, I decided to go with Charisma as the third main Attribute in the game (Huzzah! Not a dump stat anymore!). That left me with Adepts and Sentinels as the 'mages' for the tabletop.
tl;dr version: here's the table I designed back in 2010, showing what each class' 4th edition counterpart(s) was (were), as well as what their main (and secondary) attributes were.
Soldier (Fighter/Slayer): Strength, Dexterity, Constitution
Engineer (Bard): Dexterity, Intelligence, Wisdom
Adept (Wizard/Invoker/Psion): Charisma, Intelligence, Wisdom
Infiltrator (Rogue/Assassin/Ranger): Dexterity, Intelligence, Constitution
Sentinel (Warlord/Cleric): Charisma, Wisdom, Strength
Vanguard (Barbarian): Strength, Constitution, Charisma
But of course, this is an Alpha build, so it'll be subject for change of course.
@Anti: Glad you can help us format the Wiki articles. Greatly appreciate it.
I live to serve, TiamatZ-Commander.
Agree on the mercenary themes, that works fine. The noble/rich theme was just me wanting to rip off the Noble theme from 4e (good team maneuver powers, free upgraded equipment at level 6, etc, it's a solid theme), though I suppose even the rich and famous occasionally join up in the military. I have a feeling turians would lean toward it more than most, but any race or class could choose it. This is why I was vague about the SpecOps theme, I didn't want to do a Salarian STG theme (since that would probably be a racial prestige/advanced class), or any other race/nation specific ones, just some basic stealth training (and maybe a distraction power from level 1 that lets you get into stealth or gain CA or something). Also agree on Urchin and C-Sec ideas.
Attributes:
Soldier - Agree on Strength main, Dex and Con as backups should be fine.
Engineer - I think Intelligence might be more appropriate for an Engineer's main stat, what with all the book learning required for the job. Dex should definitely be a back up stat (striker backup?), with maybe Charisma as well (leader back up - geth turret and supply pylon help buff).
Adept - I was thinking Wisdom should be their main. Charisma could be a good backup.
Infiltrator - looks fine to me.
Sentinel - What with their survivability, maybe Constitution as their main?
Vanguard - Strength and Charisma should be really important, as you need to have a lot of confidence in yourself to charge yourself across a battlefield and punch a Brute in the face.
Items:
So I figured it out. ME3 put it right in front of me, and I didn't see it. You can upgrade any gun you have between a I and a V, so that's how we do a Mattock +1 through +5, come up with the base stats for the Mattock, then give it +1 attack/damage for each rank in it. Armor could be the same way, along with the armor "pieces" (leg slot, arm slot, hand slot, neck slot, etc).
Regarding themes:
If your looking for a theme that has bonuses to stealth (and to be a candidate for distraction powers), have you tried a Thief theme? There is after all, a famous master thief established in the game universe.
I also agree on the item upgrades regarding weapons.
Regarding a Sentinel: I've realised that Sents are both Biotic AND Tech users, which means they get access to both Biotic amps and Omni tools. I figured as a class feature (calling it Implement Specialization), Sents can choose which implement to be proficient with (with extra bonuses attached to them, of course) and lose access to the other one, or the option to use both (but only get half the bonus of each for balance purposes). More to follow...
Edit: Anyone know of any good Sentinel quotes ingame? I'm finding it rather difficult to find some.
I'm not sure if sentinel is the place for it, but they are a pretty versatile class.
If Adept and Vanguard are getting power points, Sentinel could be like the monk and not get any. Either that, or the class bonus choices could be as follows:
Biotic Focus: Gain 2 power points at first level, level up at appropriate rate.
Tech Focus: Gain a free Superior Implement Feat (Omni Tool only).
Balanced: Gain 1 power point, level up at half rate, deal 2 extra damage on biotic and tech explosions.
That way, they can use both implements and be able to choose from both power sets, but a biotic or balanced focus could augment biotic at-wills/items, tech would get some options (Accurate Omni-tool is a +1 to attacks, or access to other item qualities), and balanced would benefit a mixed (tech and biotic) team better by setting off bigger explosions.
Personally, I'd rather let the Adept be the only class with Augmentation points, therefore giving the class some uniqueness when compared to the other classes.
Or what's everyone else's thoughts on this?
Edit: Though that is technically a Mordin reference, it does kinda fit with the versatile nature of Sentinel.
By the way, didn't Vigil (from ME1) also used the word 'sentinel' once in it's dialogue? Or was my mind pulling tricks on me it Reaper indoctrination?
Edit: Oooh, here's a nice one from Kaidan, waaay back in ME1
Okay, so if power points are adept only, why not:
Biotic Focus: Tech Armor gains Biotic Resistance (X per tier)
Tech Focus: Tech Armor restores (X per tier) shields upon detonation
Balanced Focus: Add +2/tier to any biotic explosion or tech detonation
Something like that? Since Tech Armor is the defining part of the class, the choice should have to do with that. Also, the riders for powers might change based on your choice.
Sentinel Overload
If Tech Focus, deal (mod) electric damage to a secondary target within 3 squares of the original
If Biotic Focus, daze organic target until EoNT
Sentinel Warp
If Balanced Focus, Warp gains the Tech Detonator keyword.
Dazed might be a bit powerful for that. Why not a new Mass Effect appropriate keyword: Stagger.
Staggered:
You grant CA (maybe only to Ranged attacks?)
You lose your minor action.
You are no longer aiming or scoped in.
Something like that?
I would suggest instead if sentinel is still being a leader then tech and biotic should work into whatever leader power they get and then powers reference that.
I also agree that sentinels shouldn't use augment points. I would argue nothing should but if someone has to then adept fits the best.
What's the plan on leaders? healing as a focus or something else?
I know in the game sentinels work best stripping defences, but that is best represented in powers. could do a healing thing augmented by tech or biotics. like the standard healing surge +mod +d6. maybe tech also returns some shields and biotics buffs their damage? it's a system independent of the controller/defender back up, but still might play to a strength one has.
One of the reasons why I thought specializing in a certain implement would help, was the fact that Sentinels would need two implements in addition to a weapon (as opposed to the other classes, who either need a weapon and/or one single implement), so it would be a little bit more expensive for a Sentinel PC (unless of course, he/she ditches the weapon and go with only implements) than say, an Adept or Engineer. It won't define your role (the sentinel would have an equal list of biotic/tech based powers regardless of your secondary role), but would allow PCs the option of gaining an advantage towards one implement than the other, but also still give PCs the option in case they go for both.
In theory, that is.
However, I can see your point.
I was thinking, depending on what 'mastery' they choose, that both biotic and tech powers gain some unique bonus.
For example: PCs choosing the 'Raider' Mastery turn all their non-primer encounter and daily powers into biotic/tech detonators (to complement with other controllers on the field), whereas 'Guardian' PCs grant X Shield Points to all allies within 10 squares of him (where X is half his level plus his Charisma or Constitution modifier, whichever is highest) when using encounter and daily powers. In addition, when under the effects of Tech Armor, Guardian PCs will gain different bonuses to both biotic/tech attacks and powers (e.g. Damage reduction or Biotic/Tech Reduction, or increased power range), while Raider PCs would gain different bonuses when they 'detonate' their Tech Armor (things like slowing down targets in a close burst, or granting CA etc.). Lastly, to emphasize that Sentinels are Leaders, they can give PCs bonuses whenever their allies spend Action Points (much like the popular Warlord's Commanding Presence).
As for actual healing hit points, I'd rather limit that to rare encounter powers, daily powers and potions (or in the video game, medi-gel or ops packs) or miscellaneous items to deal with that. This would give gel (or packs) a more strategic importance (as well as wise investments for players) in the table top game, as well as removing the whole 'weneedaclericitis' mentality most game groups have (remember, just because the Sentinel's a leader, doesn't mean he should automatically qualify for the obligatory healbot status).
In addition, it's been a busy week IRL for me, so I'll only get the Sentinel (and maybe the Adept) builds up this weekend.
So maybe something like the Warlord:
When an ally within 5 spends an action point to make an extra attack, +3 to the roll (or a modifier)
Allies within 10 gain a +1 initiative bonus (or a modifier)
Raider: Allies within 5 that detonate an explosion or burst do +2/+4 (tiered) damage (once per turn)
Guardian: Allies within 5 that detonate an explosion or burst regain 2/4 (tiered, maybe 3/6?) shields (once per turn - or maybe shift?)
Adding detonation capability to certain encounters/daily could be a rider on the powers, that way we don't have to balance every single power to detonate for the raider.
Also, speaking of Tech Armor - why not make them Daily like a barbarian rage? Different flavors could help with different things - Omni Shield, Juggernaut armor (-movement, bigger defense bonus), Trampling armor (pushing/sliding effects, +melee), stuff like that? Also, the detonation could either be specific to each power (with riders for raider/guardian), or the raider and guardian could each have their own, consistent detonation.
I don't know how far along you are on the basics for the sentinel, so if this would completely throw your work for a loop, let me know and I'll try and bring it more in line with what you have.
1) Retain 4th Edition's current alignment system
2) Scrap it
or 3) Use a Mass Effect "Morality" system
About the third option, players may choose either "Paragon", "Neutral", or "Renegade" when creating a character. Each part of the morality spectrum gains a +1 bonus to Diplomacy, Bluff and Intimidate respectively, and will be considered a 'fluctuating' bonus. Basically, the DM (or the other PCs, if allowed) would oversee how you RP your character's morality, choices and final actions in the game (by final, I'm assuming usually after every major assignment [aka Quest], and not during a fight). If your seemingly Paragon character starts sacrificing people needlessly around him, or relying on more and more ruthless actions, the DM can switch your morality towards Neutral (or even Renegade), causing you to lose the +1 skill bonus to diplomacy, and gain a +1 Bluff bonus (or +1 Intimidate) instead. In addition, I was thinking some feats might require a specific Morality when choosing them. Or is this just needlessly complicated (if so, we could just go for Option 2).
Thoughts/ideas people?
Edit: @LordPalington: Any progress on the Vanguard and Engineer class there? I'd like to see your take on the Engi as a Leader.
I do have a little start on each, and I'll do a little more work today, starting with the engineer.
I like the Paragon/Renegade split, and with the way 4e (optionally) handles quests, skill challenges, and the like, DMs can even set up guidelines for themselves ahead of time (IE: If they complete the quest by killing the bad guy, renegade - if they complete the quest by rescuing the target with no civilian casualties, paragon). I also really like the 'Reputation' mechanic in ME3. You could keep track of the total of paragon/renegade/neutral point gains. High enough reputation around the galaxy could lead to things like different NPC interactions, VIP access to clubs, and even sponsorships!
My name is Lord Palington, and this is my favorite thread on the forums!