Tom B posted an awesome blog today. It's the original outline for Civil War by Millar. A lot of interesting stuff like Stamford not even being a part of it and Nick Fury still running Shield at the time (although its basically the exact same moment substituting Hill for Fury in the proposal that showed up in CW) and so on. Tony has a much better premise for being pro-Reg as his best friend Happy's son/godson (Tom B points out he doesnt have a son and has comments about what to do with it) is killed during Speedball's attempt to break up a robbery, giving Tony a real reason to be so pro-Reg.
There was talk of tying it into WWH / Planet Hulk by having Hulk come back at the end and forcing everyone to join together to stop him but Tom B doesnt want it to turn into chasing the dollar like DC (I think it was meant as Identity Crisis leads to Infinite leads to 52, etc and not a direct bash of DC) and other interesting points.
Oddly enough, Loeb is the one that made the big deal about there having to be a bunch of deaths in CW to make it actually worthwhile.
[JQ - Mark, to give Cap’s argument weight, I say that one of the heroes that registered has his family killed by a villain. This way when Fury tells Cap it’s all going to be confidential, Cap calls him on it, anything can be leaked.]
While to some extent powers like flying and such should be regulated, it should be a civilian task. (eg. FAA for flying). It shouldn't just be "You're in the Army now!" Also, keep in mind that these guys are just kids. They don't deserve to be treated this way at all.
Umm... you don't seem to know what "FAA" means, then. Or at least, the "F" part (hint: it doesn't stand for "state" or "civilian," which it would have to in order for what you just said to not support my argument.
People are forgetting something very important. The Marvel Universe is not Real Life. It is a Comic Book.
You're forgetting something important - nobody here has been fooled into thinking these comics WERE real life. We're debating the merits of the storytelling and enjoying it. You're also forgetting that in order to be entertaining, a piece of entertaining has to have SOMETHING to do with real life , otherwise it would be complete gibberish and/or totally useless. Like your post. :P
While to some extent powers like flying and such should be regulated, it should be a civilian task. (eg. FAA for flying). It shouldn't just be "You're in the Army now!" Also, keep in mind that these guys are just kids. They don't deserve to be treated this way at all.
Umm... you don't seem to know what "FAA" means, then. Or at least, the "F" part (hint: it doesn't stand for "state" or "civilian," which it would have to in order for what you just said to not support my argument.
Not to revive this, but the distinction I believe grendel was concerned with was military/civilian, not government/citizenry.
In other words, he was saying that the superpowers should be regulated by a non-military agency (e.g. the FAA, which has no military power or control whatsoever) as opposed to a purely military agency (e.g. SHIELD).
While to some extent powers like flying and such should be regulated, it should be a civilian task. (eg. FAA for flying). It shouldn't just be "You're in the Army now!" Also, keep in mind that these guys are just kids. They don't deserve to be treated this way at all.
Umm... you don't seem to know what "FAA" means, then. Or at least, the "F" part (hint: it doesn't stand for "state" or "civilian," which it would have to in order for what you just said to not support my argument.
Not to revive this, but the distinction I believe grendel was concerned with was military/civilian, not government/citizenry.
In other words, he was saying that the superpowers should be regulated by a non-military agency (e.g. the FAA, which has no military power or control whatsoever) as opposed to a purely military agency (e.g. SHIELD).
That's exactly what I was saying.
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RingoHe/Hima distinct lack of substanceRegistered Userregular
edited July 2007
So I just finished reading the CW: Frontline vol 2. And.... wow. Wow.
The Myspace thing was as terrible as advertised... but.. to follow it up with giving Tony a pass for manipulating the whole thing?
Sally gives Tony a pass for scaring the heroes into taking sides and escalating the fighting, and has the gall to blame all the death and destruction on Captain freaking America?
Frontline made my brain hurt, and made me so very very angry.
I hope both Sally Floyd and Ben Urich have been replaced by skrulls and that someone kills them both.
While to some extent powers like flying and such should be regulated, it should be a civilian task. (eg. FAA for flying). It shouldn't just be "You're in the Army now!" Also, keep in mind that these guys are just kids. They don't deserve to be treated this way at all.
Umm... you don't seem to know what "FAA" means, then. Or at least, the "F" part (hint: it doesn't stand for "state" or "civilian," which it would have to in order for what you just said to not support my argument.
Not to revive this, but the distinction I believe grendel was concerned with was military/civilian, not government/citizenry.
In other words, he was saying that the superpowers should be regulated by a non-military agency (e.g. the FAA, which has no military power or control whatsoever) as opposed to a purely military agency (e.g. SHIELD).
That's exactly what I was saying.
Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification (it was exactly what you MEANT by what you were saying, but not necessarily what you were saying without such clarification). Your argument officially makes sense.
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cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
edited September 2007
Well, I'm glad there's an old thread on this, because I don't know nearly enough to start my own.
I just started reading the 'Chronicles' issues(they're being sold at 7-11s and such), and I'm wondering how much of the story these have, since there seems to be a thousand and one spin-offs of the series.
I also looked at the Deadpool/Factor-X graphic novels at a bookstore. Were those side-stories, or part of the main arc?
Lastly, how long is the Chronicles thing set to go for? I'm wondering how big a hole I've dug for myself here.
I haven't kept up with Marvel for like, oh, six years before this, so I'm hoping I won't be too completely lost, but I figure now's a good time to play catch-up.
Well, I'm glad there's an old thread on this, because I don't know nearly enough to start my own.
I just started reading the 'Chronicles' issues(they're being sold at 7-11s and such), and I'm wondering how much of the story these have, since there seems to be a thousand and one spin-offs of the series.
I also looked at the Deadpool/Factor-X graphic novels at a bookstore. Were those side-stories, or part of the main arc?
Lastly, how long is the Chronicles thing set to go for? I'm wondering how big a hole I've dug for myself here.
I haven't kept up with Marvel for like, oh, six years before this, so I'm hoping I won't be too completely lost, but I figure now's a good time to play catch-up.
As far as I know Chronicles should keep going until they reprint the whole thing or they stop selling.
All I read was the main series along w/ the Amazing Spider-Man and FF issues and I felt I got the whole story. The tie-ins are just that, you could just buy the Civil War trade and get a grasp on the whole thing easily.
As I understand it, Chronices is going up to the end of Civil War, only they're including relevant tie-in issues. Like Civil War #2 was bookended by two issues of Amazing Spider-Man.
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cj iwakuraThe Rhythm RegentBears The Name FreedomRegistered Userregular
edited September 2007
It sounds like that's going to be a lot of issues. If the summaries I've seen are any indication, the first two issues barely scratch the surface.
I just started reading al of the CW TPBs that hit. I have finished everything but Frontline 2, Punisher, Black Panther, Young Avengers/Runaways, and Cable/Deadpool...maybe something else. All the main stuff is out of the way, though, and I've got to say I've enjoyed the heck out of it. Early on I was even being pulled to both sides of the registration, I felt conflicted on which side to fall on. That didn't last terribly long, not with all of the dick moves Tony and crew did. Especially bringing on guys like Bullseye to help bring in anti-registration heroes.
When I picked up Ms. Marvel I actually got ticked off that she joined pro-registration, I kept hoping she'd get talked into anti. I don't know why, I mean it fits her personality. Part of it has to do with her House of M arch, I felt she was going to become a "pure" hero.
The Tony Stark Confessions was great, Tony makes a wonderful villain without really being a villain.
I do have a question, I don't know why I'm spoilering this since freaking CNN ruined it for me but,
is the actual death of Captain America shown or do we just find out in Confessions? I'm assuming that TPB just hasn't been released yet because his death wasn't included in the Captain America TPB.
And what is up with Captain Marvel? I was excited about his return but it was so empty. I would love to see him end up falling on the anti side and leading a prison break. A Marvel vs Sentry fight would be aces.
This month's Wizard has a decent article on Civil War. It's basically a commentary by Millar and McNiven on random scenes from each issue from 1-7. They comment on stuff like the Cap / Tony fight, Clor, Spidey Unmasking and other big scenes. Pretty entertaining, but I dont know if its worth buying Wizard just for it.
I do have a question, I don't know why I'm spoilering this since freaking CNN ruined it for me but,
is the actual death of Captain America shown or do we just find out in Confessions? I'm assuming that TPB just hasn't been released yet because his death wasn't included in the Captain America TPB.
And what is up with Captain Marvel? I was excited about his return but it was so empty. I would love to see him end up falling on the anti side and leading a prison break. A Marvel vs Sentry fight would be aces.
Cap was killed in Captain America #25. It will be in the next TPB AFAIK, and the Ed Brubaker Omnibus coming out in October (November?). It is good.
Captain Marvel has a mini coming out in the fall that deals with his tenure as the warden of 42, among other things.
Is that a Captain America Omnibus or a Civil War Omnibus?
Because I would have loved a CW Omnibus and will be rather upset if I jumped the gun by purchasing all of these TPBs individually. Not that anything can be done about it now, of course.
EDIT: NM, found it online, Captain America. Amazon has it available for pre-order. Captain America 1-25, 65th Anniversary, & Winter Kills. Hmmm, think I have some of those.
There will most certainly be a CW Omnibus at some point, and I've seen rumors of a digital collection from Git Corp. I don't want to get off topic but those digital collections of Marvel's old books are the best thing since sliced bread.
There is a Captain America Omnibus on the way, I have no idea about a CW omnibus but it seems unlikely, Marvel doesn't seem to produce the Omnibus editions for everything, just "special" runs (Alias, Morissions New X-Men etc).
There will most certainly be a CW Omnibus at some point, and I've seen rumors of a digital collection from Git Corp. I don't want to get off topic but those digital collections of Marvel's old books are the best thing since sliced bread.
The only one I've bought has just been a bunch of PDF files. I wasn't expecting as good of a presentation as the free ones they put on their webpage but I was at least expecting a custom program that makes it easy to view and flip through the issues. I was really rather disappointed.
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augustwhere you come from is goneRegistered Userregular
edited September 2007
I wish I hadn't bought the New X-Men Omnibus. I already had the first hardcover. The thing is just too fucking thick to read.
I will never understand why TPBs don't have an extra half an inch, or whatever is appropriate based on page count, on the binded end of each page to ensure all of the art can be seen. That and being behind all of you are the only downsides in my dedication to TPBs.
Posts
Tom B posted an awesome blog today. It's the original outline for Civil War by Millar. A lot of interesting stuff like Stamford not even being a part of it and Nick Fury still running Shield at the time (although its basically the exact same moment substituting Hill for Fury in the proposal that showed up in CW) and so on. Tony has a much better premise for being pro-Reg as his best friend Happy's son/godson (Tom B points out he doesnt have a son and has comments about what to do with it) is killed during Speedball's attempt to break up a robbery, giving Tony a real reason to be so pro-Reg.
There was talk of tying it into WWH / Planet Hulk by having Hulk come back at the end and forcing everyone to join together to stop him but Tom B doesnt want it to turn into chasing the dollar like DC (I think it was meant as Identity Crisis leads to Infinite leads to 52, etc and not a direct bash of DC) and other interesting points.
Oddly enough, Loeb is the one that made the big deal about there having to be a bunch of deaths in CW to make it actually worthwhile.
Wow. That's just a bit ham-fisted.
You're forgetting something important - nobody here has been fooled into thinking these comics WERE real life. We're debating the merits of the storytelling and enjoying it. You're also forgetting that in order to be entertaining, a piece of entertaining has to have SOMETHING to do with real life , otherwise it would be complete gibberish and/or totally useless. Like your post. :P
The Myspace thing was as terrible as advertised... but.. to follow it up with giving Tony a pass for manipulating the whole thing?
Sally gives Tony a pass for scaring the heroes into taking sides and escalating the fighting, and has the gall to blame all the death and destruction on Captain freaking America?
Frontline made my brain hurt, and made me so very very angry.
I hope both Sally Floyd and Ben Urich have been replaced by skrulls and that someone kills them both.
I just started reading the 'Chronicles' issues(they're being sold at 7-11s and such), and I'm wondering how much of the story these have, since there seems to be a thousand and one spin-offs of the series.
I also looked at the Deadpool/Factor-X graphic novels at a bookstore. Were those side-stories, or part of the main arc?
Lastly, how long is the Chronicles thing set to go for? I'm wondering how big a hole I've dug for myself here.
I haven't kept up with Marvel for like, oh, six years before this, so I'm hoping I won't be too completely lost, but I figure now's a good time to play catch-up.
As far as I know Chronicles should keep going until they reprint the whole thing or they stop selling.
All I read was the main series along w/ the Amazing Spider-Man and FF issues and I felt I got the whole story. The tie-ins are just that, you could just buy the Civil War trade and get a grasp on the whole thing easily.
When I picked up Ms. Marvel I actually got ticked off that she joined pro-registration, I kept hoping she'd get talked into anti. I don't know why, I mean it fits her personality. Part of it has to do with her House of M arch, I felt she was going to become a "pure" hero.
The Tony Stark Confessions was great, Tony makes a wonderful villain without really being a villain.
I do have a question, I don't know why I'm spoilering this since freaking CNN ruined it for me but,
And what is up with Captain Marvel? I was excited about his return but it was so empty. I would love to see him end up falling on the anti side and leading a prison break. A Marvel vs Sentry fight would be aces.
Cap was killed in Captain America #25. It will be in the next TPB AFAIK, and the Ed Brubaker Omnibus coming out in October (November?). It is good.
Captain Marvel has a mini coming out in the fall that deals with his tenure as the warden of 42, among other things.
Because I would have loved a CW Omnibus and will be rather upset if I jumped the gun by purchasing all of these TPBs individually. Not that anything can be done about it now, of course.
EDIT: NM, found it online, Captain America. Amazon has it available for pre-order. Captain America 1-25, 65th Anniversary, & Winter Kills. Hmmm, think I have some of those.
Here is the link to the Amazon page for the Captain America Omnibus
The only one I've bought has just been a bunch of PDF files. I wasn't expecting as good of a presentation as the free ones they put on their webpage but I was at least expecting a custom program that makes it easy to view and flip through the issues. I was really rather disappointed.
I want that so badly.