Ikebukuro Rumble [Phalla] (Revolutionary Tiny Main) --- Game Over! Village Victory!

mi-go hunter · August 2012

Well, I had fun hosting and that's what matters! I'll take all your criticisms into account and next time, hopefully, have a better balanced more streamlined phalla.

premium · August 2012

I felt sorta bad for Rawkking at the end there, but honestly there were so many kills flying around it would have been damn near impossible for this game to go 7 days.

spool32 · August 2012

premium wrote: »

I felt sorta bad for Rawkking at the end there, but honestly there were so many kills flying around it would have been damn near impossible for this game to go 7 days.

I was a meanie on the proboards.

Erin The Red · August 2012

Megafrost wrote: »

TheRoadVirus wrote: »

That doesn't count!

Also, I was incredibly lucky that mega frost contacted me day 1

That was pretty lucky, but I had a plan to publicly reveal in thread if I couldn't find you via soft-networking. Would you have reached out to me if I (EDIT: publicly) claimed to be Saki Makijima looking for you?

As far as this game goes, I was really surprised that people were willing to reveal to ebum on day 2. I didn't think that his "vote close reveal" meant a thing, as narration did not in any way confirm him village and his vote manipulator power wasn't even confirmed because Alegis was leading in votes already. I didn't trust him until Egos and Slym died.

That was one of the names in my role PM, and it said if someone found me that the penalty would go away, so probably

kime · August 2012

Infidel wrote: »

Looks like the game was a mess but you did okay host-wise, so you should keep on keeping-on "mi-go hunter"!

I didn't realize that this game was looked over by kime until reading the postgame. For the record, kime is a long-term veteran player but terrible at mechanics and balance. He knows threads, not GAME THEORY.

I did not make this game. I warned mi-go where problems could occur, which includes everything people have mentioned so far (and some extra things

). If he chooses to keep potentially game-breaking roles in the game on the chance good things come of it, that was his decision. It didn't turn out too well this game, but it possibly could have gone a lot better. But he knew that the design had several potentially huge imbalances, and decided to go with it anyways.

I don't think that's something that either I or he should be insulted over. Risks have to be taken sometimes, as both hosts and players. It's unfortunate that certain things transpired the way they did this game, but many people said they enjoyed it, and that's the main goal anyways. Yeah, some didn't, and that's undesirable, but oh well, it happens.

kime · August 2012

premium wrote: »

I felt sorta bad for Rawkking at the end there, but honestly there were so many kills flying around it would have been damn near impossible for this game to go 7 days.

Yeah, the timing on his condition was a bit tough. He definitely had to be more proactive. 6 kills, roughly, a night, in a 32 player game means that it was definitely doable. But it really required either a very nice village willing to voluntarily extend the game a day or so (which Rawkking didn't have

), or for him to take more control. Overlap kills, arrange the deaths of vigs or kills on guards, even blatantly lying to stall an extra day or so (I don't think he even had to survive, so if backlash hit him for lying, all the better). Unfortunately, Rawkking was too trusting

Megafrost · August 2012

For what it's worth, I appreciated the role I was given. It forced me to try and address one of my weaknesses as a player (that I had an aversion to soft-networking) and gave me something to do while also reassuring me that the village wouldn't lose too much if I died.

mi-go hunter · August 2012

kime wrote: »

premium wrote: »

I felt sorta bad for Rawkking at the end there, but honestly there were so many kills flying around it would have been damn near impossible for this game to go 7 days.

Yeah, the timing on his condition was a bit tough. He definitely had to be more proactive. 6 kills, roughly, a night, in a 32 player game means that it was definitely doable. But it really required either a very nice village willing to voluntarily extend the game a day or so (which Rawkking didn't have ), or for him to take more control. Overlap kills, arrange the deaths of vigs or kills on guards, even blatantly lying to stall an extra day or so (I don't think he even had to survive, so if backlash hit him for lying, all the better). Unfortunately, Rawkking was too trusting

Izaya did have to survive to the end though. But, yeah Izaya is difficult to play and requires maybe more networking?

If he knew a good number of player roles, he can busdrive a LOT of stuff his way.

mi-go hunter · August 2012

kime wrote: »

Infidel wrote: »

Looks like the game was a mess but you did okay host-wise, so you should keep on keeping-on "mi-go hunter"!

I didn't realize that this game was looked over by kime until reading the postgame. For the record, kime is a long-term veteran player but terrible at mechanics and balance. He knows threads, not GAME THEORY.

I did not make this game. I warned mi-go where problems could occur, which includes everything people have mentioned so far (and some extra things ). If he chooses to keep potentially game-breaking roles in the game on the chance good things come of it, that was his decision. It didn't turn out too well this game, but it possibly could have gone a lot better. But he knew that the design had several potentially huge imbalances, and decided to go with it anyways.

I don't think that's something that either I or he should be insulted over. Risks have to be taken sometimes, as both hosts and players. It's unfortunate that certain things transpired the way they did this game, but many people said they enjoyed it, and that's the main goal anyways. Yeah, some didn't, and that's undesirable, but oh well, it happens.

To be fair, the game was almost impossible to judge for balance. Kime did help me a LOT, even if he did not balance it perfectly.

kime is right, I took a risk hosting it. And the game didn't turn out exactly how I wanted it to be and in retrospect maybe the village was too powerful (still not gamebreaking though). But it was a lot of fun.

Rawkking Goodguy · August 2012

Yeah not chatting up more dudes was a mistake, even if it wasn't necessarily to betray the village (though it could be that) but just to befriend people and make them on-board helping me win.

I was way too convinced that Shizuo needed to kill me or something and I tend to foolishly assume that all players are smart like Phyphor and wouldn't needlessly share information with a neutral

I mean there IS something to be said for keeping a low profile with a survival neutral role but obviously it didn't work this time.

Also busdriving kills doesn't prevent kills, just reallocates them. Helps delay the game for a bit yeah, but from day 1 I knew I would show up in gray in the associated narration and then the village would just vote me out or something.

mi-go hunter · August 2012

Rawkking Goodguy wrote: »

Yeah not chatting up dudes was my big mistake, I was way too convinced that Shizuo needed to kill me or something and I tend to foolishly assume that all players are smart like Phyphor and wouldn't needlessly share information with a neutral

Shizuo didn't need to kill you specifically, but I warned he could do it randomly

premium · August 2012

Rawkking Goodguy wrote: »

Yeah not chatting up dudes was my big mistake, I was way too convinced that Shizuo needed to kill me or something and I tend to foolishly assume that all players are smart like Phyphor and wouldn't needlessly share information with a neutral

I mean there IS something to be said for keeping a low profile with a survival neutral role but obviously it didn't work this time.

Also busdriving kills doesn't prevent kills, just reallocates them. Helps delay the game for a bit yeah, but from day 1 I knew I would show up in gray in the associated narration and then the village would just vote me out or something.

I sorta mentioned it on our proboards, but if I were you I would have kept a couple mafia out of the villages hands until you could guarantee that you would get a win. Even if you fed the village one mafia a day they would have kept you around and trusted you somewhat.

Rawkking Goodguy · August 2012

Anyways open up these proboards people.

premium · August 2012

Mason/spool/ebum board should be open.

http://weareallbestfriends.proboards.com/index.cgi

spool32 · August 2012

Megafrost wrote: »

For what it's worth, I appreciated the role I was given. It forced me to try and address one of my weaknesses as a player (that I had an aversion to soft-networking) and gave me something to do while also reassuring me that the village wouldn't lose too much if I died.

I was actively seeking you on day 1 so that I could help, or at least determine what your goal was, so in that respect you did well. Info about your search was spreading around, but your name most definitely was not!

Lucedes · August 2012

The stupidest thing ever happened to me:

--I had a faction-specific guard, usable only against Seika's Children. if it triggered, i killed one of them at random.
--I guarded myself day one.
--my self-guard was busdriven off of me.
--the Seika's Children kill was busdriven onto me.

SO DUMB. THE DUMBEST.

Infidel · August 2012

Lucedes wrote: »

The most hilarious thing ever happened to me:
...
SO GOOD.

Kilnaga · August 2012

I did have a gay old time talking to people in PMs though. I typically don't soft network, so it was different for me.

Anialos wrote: »

Yey! I have a grudge for next game! Why did you run me over Officer @Kilnaga?

@Anialos

You were actually my target on Day 1 after talks with jdark trying to find a suitable target for my vig. Sort of just stuck with it until it landed.

Infidel · August 2012

kime wrote: »

Infidel wrote: »

Looks like the game was a mess but you did okay host-wise, so you should keep on keeping-on "mi-go hunter"!

I didn't realize that this game was looked over by kime until reading the postgame. For the record, kime is a long-term veteran player but terrible at mechanics and balance. He knows threads, not GAME THEORY.

I did not make this game. I warned mi-go where problems could occur, which includes everything people have mentioned so far (and some extra things ). If he chooses to keep potentially game-breaking roles in the game on the chance good things come of it, that was his decision. It didn't turn out too well this game, but it possibly could have gone a lot better. But he knew that the design had several potentially huge imbalances, and decided to go with it anyways.

I don't think that's something that either I or he should be insulted over. Risks have to be taken sometimes, as both hosts and players. It's unfortunate that certain things transpired the way they did this game, but many people said they enjoyed it, and that's the main goal anyways. Yeah, some didn't, and that's undesirable, but oh well, it happens.

It wasn't an insult, and I was only addressing you. You have a notorious reputation for going "well, in the end" and deflecting any points on mechanics.

It is not your thing. "Some enjoyed it, some didn't, whatever" isn't agreed by many people around here as the best we can strive for.

It is counterproductive for the community to have someone with that outlook reviewing games for hosts, there is an expectation from them that they'll get some sanity checking going on.

Knowing how to play doesn't mean knowing how to host or design, not everyone is cut out for it.

And MrBlarney and I harping on it always but this game is a good example of host well and you will get "thanks for running" at least. Which is honestly the most important part. Hosting competently will lead to more games that you can work on in the future, learning as you go.

Void Slayer · August 2012

Yellow boards are open betterthenblue.proboards.com.

My only suggestions for future games are that first, you had a fairly normal mafia and a mafia with a very unlikely conversion against a very over powered village, including 4 masons! That is almost as big a mason group as the entire yellow mafia!

And with the lovers, the sister and izaya that is another group that is basically a 4 person mason group!

This earns it 5 Farangus from me, due to subverting the normal Mafia balance, it was basically two informed minorities against two other informed minorities.

I don't even know with the vig killing randomly, it removes the agency from the village and turns it into just a game of chance.

The last point on hosting is including too much information in the narrations, specifically on non-kill abilities like guards, conversions and role blocks. Your basically turning them into seer powers by revealing too much. This takes away from the village having to coordinate information and network, this again removes the uninformed majority part of the game.

I remember one game where I was the big bad overpowered serial killer and was attacked by three people but guarded against it, but the narration named me outright as the target of their attacks basically turning their vigs into public seers. Rather then having to actually talk about what happened and me maybe saying that I had just guarded or something there was nothing I could do to defend myself from a vote. I was rather bitter that basically my guard was useless because any vig just seered me.

To sum up about narration reveals :you should include in your design which abilities reveal what in the narration and account for that in the balance, then follow the rules you create when writing the narration.

This game was clearly experimental so I would never hold that against a host but I disliked several of the mechanics I listed above.

Also the guy who knew everything. With that kind of knowledge his objective should have been a lot harder then "just survive for about the same amount of time the game should take anyway."

Going by the kills it should have lasted 7+ days either way.

Void Slayer · August 2012

Oh and thank you for hosting the game in general Mi-Go, I had fun.

mi-go hunter · August 2012

Ah well, thanks for the tips Void Slayer. Glad you had fun despite the numerous mistakes I have made.

Anialos · August 2012

Kilnaga wrote: »

I did have a gay old time talking to people in PMs though. I typically don't soft network, so it was different for me.

Anialos wrote: »

Yey! I have a grudge for next game! Why did you run me over Officer @Kilnaga?

@Anialos

You were actually my target on Day 1 after talks with jdark trying to find a suitable target for my vig. Sort of just stuck with it until it landed.

That is quite funny, because being totally vanilla I don't know what stopped you!

Kilnaga · August 2012

Anialos wrote: »

Kilnaga wrote: »

I did have a gay old time talking to people in PMs though. I typically don't soft network, so it was different for me.

Anialos wrote: »

Yey! I have a grudge for next game! Why did you run me over Officer @Kilnaga?

@Anialos

You were actually my target on Day 1 after talks with jdark trying to find a suitable target for my vig. Sort of just stuck with it until it landed.

That is quite funny, because being totally vanilla I don't know what stopped you!

My vig had a 75% miss chance. ;-;

I needed a gnome to post. · August 2012

Hey mi-go thanks for running. As I'm sure you've figured out it was not necessarily the most balanced game, but you definitely demonstrated that you've got the chops to host. The biggest criticism I would lay down is to probably be a bit reserved when interacting with people and making sure you think about how every post you make will be interpreted - a few times I think you made clarifications when it would have been either unnecessary or better to just let the players talk it out. Overall it was a very ambitious start and while it didn't pan out it's made me interested in seeing what your games will be in the future after you learn from this. In the long run it's better to get the game where you totally fuck up balance and hate yourself out of the way early to make more badass games later.

vagrant_winds · August 2012

Basically don't talk unless directly asked a clarification in orange.
And then reserve the right to Clarification Denied.

Erin The Red · August 2012

vagrant_winds wrote: »

Basically don't talk unless directly asked a clarification in orange.
And then reserve the right to Clarification Denied.

That was the hardest thing for me to do in my first phalla. I wanted to comment on stuff and I think it was @SaberOverEasy that was like "yo, stop" and so in my second one, I did a lot better. The best thing you can do is ALWAYS LEARN, both from the good and bad

chamberlain · August 2012

Thanks for game, Mi-go.

I feel sorry for the role whose win condition was to kill me. I resist 50% of attacks and his only has a 25% chance of working? What are the odds of him finding me and actually killing me?

vagrant_winds · August 2012

1-in-8 IF he knew who you were day one and relentlessly attacked you without you getting any guards or bus drivers.
But they didn't know who you were so close to zero.

Kilnaga · August 2012

chamberlain wrote: »

Thanks for game, Mi-go.

I feel sorry for the role whose win condition was to kill me. I resist 50% of attacks and his only has a 25% chance of working? What are the odds of him finding me and actually killing me?

Like none. You were nowhere near the top of the list of people I was planning to seervig.

blahmcblah · August 2012

Assuming just random vig kills with no other powers taking effect:

Day 1: 1 in 248 or 0.4%
Day 2: 1 in 200 or 0.5%
Day 3: 1 in 168 or 0.6%

The chances get better, but not significantly enough to make it anything other than a huge longshot.

spool32 · August 2012

TheRoadVirus wrote: »

vagrant_winds wrote: »

Basically don't talk unless directly asked a clarification in orange.
And then reserve the right to Clarification Denied.

That was the hardest thing for me to do in my first phalla. I wanted to comment on stuff and I think it was @SaberOverEasy that was like "yo, stop" and so in my second one, I did a lot better. The best thing you can do is ALWAYS LEARN, both from the good and bad

Also struggled mightily with this. (edit: I mean, I did in the game I ran)

Another point - closing the vote early on day 1 was a big whoa for me... I was planning to break that tie at the last moment and didn't get a chance to. If I'd done so, there's a good chance that ebum wouldn't have felt he could call his vote manip, that jdark would've been out on day 1 (I was leaning that way)...

Basically the whole game might've been different if I'd had those extra three minutes. :shock:

spool32 · August 2012

Kilnaga wrote: »

chamberlain wrote: »

Thanks for game, Mi-go.

I feel sorry for the role whose win condition was to kill me. I resist 50% of attacks and his only has a 25% chance of working? What are the odds of him finding me and actually killing me?

Like none. You were nowhere near the top of the list of people I was planning to seervig.

Don't worry, I was planning on maybe telling you if things didn't work out on the last day.

kime · August 2012

@Infidel: mmmk. Not gonna continue 'cause it's not the right place

Phyphor · August 2012

Ahahaha

phyphor is, according to information received, the seer. If they could go after him/her tonight that would be great. If for some reason that's wrong, I'd appreciate some notice.

Read more: http://betterthenblue.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=5&page=2#ixzz24qxWQ4eT

At this point I had told exactly one person. I wonder if I was role seered or if there was a leak. Red boards!

premium · August 2012

I would love to know how they got that info, since the only people I told was a 'confirmed' vig and my mason buddies. And I let them know not to share your identity.

38thDoe · August 2012

@SaberOverEasy How did you know what my power did? I only told jdarksun what would happen.

Megafrost · August 2012

premium wrote: »

I would love to know how they got that info, since the only people I told was a 'confirmed' vig and my mason buddies. And I let them know not to share your identity.

Red mafia seered Phyphor on day 2, according to the spreadsheet.

Megafrost · August 2012

Speaking of red mafia, I haven't seen a link to their proboards yet.

Erin The Red · August 2012

We stand defiant to the end

Penny Arcade

Ikebukuro Rumble [Phalla] (Revolutionary Tiny Main) --- Game Over! Village Victory!

Posts

Penny Arcade

Quick Links

Ikebukuro Rumble [Phalla] (Revolutionary Tiny Main) --- Game Over! Village Victory!

Posts