There's plenty of things you could do to make a keyboard better for gaming, but I'd suspect most would just involve a change in button layout and not anything truly fundamental.
You can't change things too much. At the end of the day, that mouse and keyboard are still used for basic computer interaction, and you can't impact that too much. Or rather you can, but then you're into peripheral territory. And there's been a million attempts to reinvent the wheel on the front, to extremely limited success.
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
"We're frustrated by the lack of innovation in the computer hardware space though, so we're jumping in," Valve declares. "Even basic input, the keyboard and mouse, haven't really changed in any meaningful way over the years. There's a real void in the marketplace, and opportunities to create compelling user experiences are being overlooked."
Well basic inputs for PCs haven't changed in decades because there's been no pressing need for them to change, and I'm not sure how Valve would even go about evolving the input medium the way they seem to want to. Better PC-integrated touch devices? Dipping into the Nostromo market segment? I dunno.
I think anything would just feel kind of forced.
Valve is going to develop waggle and motion capture control for the PC.
Valve's problem doesn't seem to be that things are changing fast enough or different enough; it's that they haven't changed AT ALL. Keyboards are based on a design from the 1800's. Even the mouse is nearly 40 years old.
EDIT: Misread things, the original mouse prototype is from 1963, so it's almost 50 years old!
Undead Scottsman on
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
It ain't broke though, why fix it? Innovation is all well and good, but there's a reason the kb&m and gamepad have endured so long. I wouldn't be so surprised if, when we eventually get our Minority Report style hologram interfaces, they'll be qwerty too.
Oh brilliant
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
Touch-screen monitors becoming more mainstream and affordable is the only reasonable step I can think of. Which I hate the idea of because it'd make monitors dirtier faster. Better come with a stylus.
Also, augmented reality.
Or at least mind-controlled mouse input.
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AthenorBattle Hardened OptimistThe Skies of HiigaraRegistered Userregular
This sounds very similar to the arguments made against the Wii - The controller isn't broke, why fix it?
Because the control interfaces are the cornerstone of how you interact with an electronic game, and without innovation in that field things tend to stagnate. Why not try for something new? Granted, "waggle" wasn't exactly implemented well by most companies, but that's because they were designing the game first and thinking about input second, rather than thinking input-first. If people were thinking input-first, we would've seen a lot more games with point controls.
On top of this, this is Valve we are talking about - a company that has a full-time Enconomist on staff to study the emergent patterns of HAT trading. They can afford to hire staff to investigate input schemes. And considering what we know about next gen (Kinect 2, Wii U), alternative control schemes are here to stay.
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
Well, as long as innovation in control schemes goes in the way of alternatives or bonuses rather than attempts to REPLACE existing conventions things will be kosher.
It ain't broke though, why fix it? Innovation is all well and good, but there's a reason the kb&m and gamepad have endured so long. I wouldn't be so surprised if, when we eventually get our Minority Report style hologram interfaces, they'll be qwerty too.
Because there might be a better way but we won't know unless we look?
I guess Valve has one of the best positions in the PC market to push accessories by tying them to games and software in their DD service, but I doubt they can do much about the keyboard and mouse standard.
They might be able to push some of the other input methods which already exist but are niche as shit.
Like those, what're they called, TrackIR devices? Tracks your head. Might be useful for other games than IL-2.
They could of course always put a touchpad on a keyboard and call it a day, but I'm pretty sure Valve thinks keyboards are an evolutionary dead end as far as PC accessories go, and that this hardware excursion of theirs is meant to explore alternatives.
Alright and in this next scene all the animals have AIDS.
Most PC games nowadays are also console games, so you're not reinventing the standard controller without doing the same for consoles.
As for KBAM's, again they also serve a dual utilitarian use, so you're not changing them much at all.
So basically, Valve is stuck right in the middle of the peripheral zone. As for where they go, it's pretty much going to be somewhere in the middle of this:
and... uh...
"The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
The Skies thing is probably just for a XBLA rerelease.
Or something done by routine to keep other people's hands off a name that's part of the Sega legacy. Companies like to keep their stuff to themselves so other people can't has.
I am however unfamiliar with US trademark law. What I'm assuming is only possible as long as the US government does not demand a company puts out some form of product based on the trademark for a renewal to be possible. If they do have to put something out there in order to retain the trademark, then it's a strong indication that there's something in the works - however, that doesn't necessarily mean it's getting much effort.
Alright and in this next scene all the animals have AIDS.
Most PC games nowadays are also console games, so you're not reinventing the standard controller without doing the same for consoles.
As for KBAM's, again they also serve a dual utilitarian use, so you're not changing them much at all.
So basically, Valve is stuck right in the middle of the peripheral zone. As for where they go, it's pretty much going to be somewhere in the middle of this:
and... uh...
Those are both still keyboards, though. They are buttons, arranged in a way to make them easy to hit.
I an see Valve looking into TrackIR, Move/Kinect, Smart Phone integration, touchpad integration.. Hell, even some of those things that track your hands in 3D space. All are wide open when you have an experimental R&D branch.
Most PC games nowadays are also console games, so you're not reinventing the standard controller without doing the same for consoles.
As for KBAM's, again they also serve a dual utilitarian use, so you're not changing them much at all.
So basically, Valve is stuck right in the middle of the peripheral zone. As for where they go, it's pretty much going to be somewhere in the middle of this:
and... uh...
Those are both still keyboards, though. They are buttons, arranged in a way to make them easy to hit.
I an see Valve looking into TrackIR, Move/Kinect, Smart Phone integration, touchpad integration.. Hell, even some of those things that track your hands in 3D space. All are wide open when you have an experimental R&D branch.
I see Valve putting out a $100 "Steam Certified" Keyboard from Razer, followed up by a $100 rebranded Logitech mouse.
Also, if you guys like Skies of Arcadia, apparently the ship combat in it was reused in the upcoming NIS / Compa Heart JPRG, Mugen Souls. Something to tide a person over, I guess?
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
edited September 2012
Sadly, NIS has yet to make a game that wasn't a tedious, grind-fest.
That being said I would like a SoA remake since I never played the original and I have not a DC or a GCN.
Touch-screen monitors becoming more mainstream and affordable is the only reasonable step I can think of. Which I hate the idea of because it'd make monitors dirtier faster. Better come with a stylus.
Also, augmented reality.
Or at least mind-controlled mouse input.
High five henroid. Stylus Tablet PCs were way more useful than these capacitive "tablets"
So no clue how much it really has to do with the state of the industry really but the actor who plays Kevin Butler is in a brand new commercial! For tires where you can get a Wii, he's there with two others playing Mario Kart on the Wii.
So no clue how much it really has to do with the state of the industry really but the actor who plays Kevin Butler is in a brand new commercial! For tires where you can get a Wii, he's there with two others playing Mario Kart on the Wii.
That's bound to drive some batty.
Sony doesn't own him, and he has bills like everyone else.
Touch-screen monitors becoming more mainstream and affordable is the only reasonable step I can think of. Which I hate the idea of because it'd make monitors dirtier faster. Better come with a stylus.
Also, augmented reality.
Or at least mind-controlled mouse input.
High five henroid. Stylus Tablet PCs were way more useful than these capacitive "tablets"
Are you being sarcastic and making fun of my old-man, hates-dirty-things nature? XD
Seriously, touch screen devices marketed on "USE YOUR HANDS!" are repulsive to me. You know the super market when you're entering your PIN with a touch-screen after using your card to pay? USE THE PEN for god's sake, don't hand touch the screen like other people do.
No, Win8 looks like a huge step back compared to the accuracy with the stylus and inking designed interface. Especially with the quiet improvements they made with it in 7
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
No, Win8 looks like a huge step back compared to the accuracy with the stylus and inking designed interface. Especially with the quiet improvements they made with it in 7
I'm living in fear that they're going to make Windows 7 impossible to get when Windows 8 hits market (wait, is it out yet?). Forcing me to buy Windows 8 is going to make me flip.
If worse comes to absolute worst (which it very well could), it's possible that OEMs could just start offering "downgrades" to Win7 like they did back in the day when ME was such a colossal failure.
- The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
A rather intriguing job listing on Valve's site for an 'Industrial Designer' shines light on the firm's disappointment with today's PC hardware, and suggest it will soon be taking matters into its own hands.
"Valve is traditionally a software company," reads the post. "Open platforms like the PC and Mac are important to us, as they enable us and our partners to have a robust and direct relationship with customers."
It gets more interesting from there. "We're frustrated by the lack of innovation in the computer hardware space though, so we're jumping in," Valve declares. "Even basic input, the keyboard and mouse, haven't really changed in any meaningful way over the years. There's a real void in the marketplace, and opportunities to create compelling user experiences are being overlooked."
The candidate is required to have "6+ years of professional experience shipping world-class, high-tech hardware products", and "confidence with 2D and 3D design visualization tools".
Valve has previously dismissed rumours that the firm is working on releasing its own hardware dubbed the 'Steam Box' - a console-like machine that would play Steam games and other PC titles on your telly with a proprietary controller and optional USB attachments.
But the rumored claims don't seem so far-fetched now, do they?
It really sounds like it.
What it sounds like is the stuff that Valve's been talking about (and constantly working with others on (Novint Falcon, Razer Hydra)) for years now. Which is alternative input devices and means of interaction, and means of interacting with and monitoring the player.
I do not believe this is about "Steam box".
Yes, this is where I'm at too. It's more likely to be the thing they keep talking about, telling others to get on with, and have said (on multiple occasions) that they are working on, than a thing that, whenever it's brought up, they flatly deny they are working on and instead point people towards the thing that they are working on.
How the bloody hell are you supposed to type on that monstrosity?
The thing with the Zboard was that it had interchangeable keysets. They even sold game specific sets. I guess that particular set is meant for FPS'es and other games using WASD movement.
If worse comes to absolute worst (which it very well could), it's possible that OEMs could just start offering "downgrades" to Win7 like they did back in the day when ME was such a colossal failure.
If worse comes to absolute worst (which it very well could), it's possible that OEMs could just start offering "downgrades" to Win7 like they did back in the day when ME was such a colossal failure.
That's not really anything new. They've allowed downgrades for several releases now. It's when they extend the downgrade period that you can call it evidence of a problem, presumably because the OS has been poorly received.
(getting off the topic of the game industry a bit here though.)
Temple of Elemental Evil featured what is to this day the best translation of D&D to the PC. Sadly, there only was one game using that engine. Were there any plans to keep using it for other games, or perhaps license it to other developers, in a manner similar to the Infinity and Gold Box engines?
Yes, we had great plans for that engine. For the sequel to The Temple of Elemental Evil, Troika proposed using the super-module GDQ: Queen of the Spiders, which consists of seven modules from the popular Giants and Drow series, plus the special Q-series module that completed the adventure. In fact, we were going to let the players bring their characters over from ToEE directly into the QoS, so they could simply continue playing with the same group of characters. Alternatively, we had suggested using the engine to create the long-awaited Baldur's Gate 3, and Obsidian had also expressed interest in licensing the engine to make D&D licensed games. Unfortunately, Atari never followed up on any of these proposals.
So, Black Isle and Troika both worked on (concept at least in Troika's case) BG 3 at some point.
Posts
Valve is going to develop waggle and motion capture control for the PC.
That or more ergonomic keyboards.
Valve's problem doesn't seem to be that things are changing fast enough or different enough; it's that they haven't changed AT ALL. Keyboards are based on a design from the 1800's. Even the mouse is nearly 40 years old.
EDIT: Misread things, the original mouse prototype is from 1963, so it's almost 50 years old!
Also, augmented reality.
Or at least mind-controlled mouse input.
Because the control interfaces are the cornerstone of how you interact with an electronic game, and without innovation in that field things tend to stagnate. Why not try for something new? Granted, "waggle" wasn't exactly implemented well by most companies, but that's because they were designing the game first and thinking about input second, rather than thinking input-first. If people were thinking input-first, we would've seen a lot more games with point controls.
On top of this, this is Valve we are talking about - a company that has a full-time Enconomist on staff to study the emergent patterns of HAT trading. They can afford to hire staff to investigate input schemes. And considering what we know about next gen (Kinect 2, Wii U), alternative control schemes are here to stay.
Because there might be a better way but we won't know unless we look?
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=41694794
Switch (JeffConser): SW-3353-5433-5137 Wii U: Skeldare - 3DS: 1848-1663-9345
PM Me if you add me!
They might be able to push some of the other input methods which already exist but are niche as shit.
Like those, what're they called, TrackIR devices? Tracks your head. Might be useful for other games than IL-2.
They could of course always put a touchpad on a keyboard and call it a day, but I'm pretty sure Valve thinks keyboards are an evolutionary dead end as far as PC accessories go, and that this hardware excursion of theirs is meant to explore alternatives.
I got a little excited when I saw your ship.
As for KBAM's, again they also serve a dual utilitarian use, so you're not changing them much at all.
So basically, Valve is stuck right in the middle of the peripheral zone. As for where they go, it's pretty much going to be somewhere in the middle of this:
and... uh...
Or something done by routine to keep other people's hands off a name that's part of the Sega legacy. Companies like to keep their stuff to themselves so other people can't has.
I am however unfamiliar with US trademark law. What I'm assuming is only possible as long as the US government does not demand a company puts out some form of product based on the trademark for a renewal to be possible. If they do have to put something out there in order to retain the trademark, then it's a strong indication that there's something in the works - however, that doesn't necessarily mean it's getting much effort.
I got a little excited when I saw your ship.
Oh man, one of my favorite games, I really hope they do a decent HD remake or something.
Those are both still keyboards, though. They are buttons, arranged in a way to make them easy to hit.
I an see Valve looking into TrackIR, Move/Kinect, Smart Phone integration, touchpad integration.. Hell, even some of those things that track your hands in 3D space. All are wide open when you have an experimental R&D branch.
I see Valve putting out a $100 "Steam Certified" Keyboard from Razer, followed up by a $100 rebranded Logitech mouse.
Also, if you guys like Skies of Arcadia, apparently the ship combat in it was reused in the upcoming NIS / Compa Heart JPRG, Mugen Souls. Something to tide a person over, I guess?
That being said I would like a SoA remake since I never played the original and I have not a DC or a GCN.
That's bound to drive some batty.
Same with Marcus playing DS on 30 Rock.
Prinny and Prinny 2.
How the bloody hell are you supposed to type on that monstrosity?
If you have to write something with it, I guess you just have to hunt and peck.
Are you being sarcastic and making fun of my old-man, hates-dirty-things nature? XD
Seriously, touch screen devices marketed on "USE YOUR HANDS!" are repulsive to me. You know the super market when you're entering your PIN with a touch-screen after using your card to pay? USE THE PEN for god's sake, don't hand touch the screen like other people do.
Then again, they're touching the pen too.
... FUCK.
I'm living in fear that they're going to make Windows 7 impossible to get when Windows 8 hits market (wait, is it out yet?). Forcing me to buy Windows 8 is going to make me flip.
- The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (2017, colorized)
Yes, this is where I'm at too. It's more likely to be the thing they keep talking about, telling others to get on with, and have said (on multiple occasions) that they are working on, than a thing that, whenever it's brought up, they flatly deny they are working on and instead point people towards the thing that they are working on.
I suddenly want to see a strider with a Santa hat and beard.
The thing with the Zboard was that it had interchangeable keysets. They even sold game specific sets. I guess that particular set is meant for FPS'es and other games using WASD movement.
Microsoft to allow Windows 8 downgrade to Windows 7 and even Vista.
Downgrade rights only in Windows 8 Pro, apparently. Also, Windows 7 PCs still able to be sold up to 2 years after Win 8 debut.
EVERYBODY WANTS TO SIT IN THE BIG CHAIR, MEG!
Well what about outright Windows 7 licenses / copies on disc? I have a rig to finish building.
EVERYBODY WANTS TO SIT IN THE BIG CHAIR, MEG!
(getting off the topic of the game industry a bit here though.)
http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/rpg-codex-retrospective-interview-tim-cain-on-fallout-troika-and-rpg-design.75737/
So, Black Isle and Troika both worked on (concept at least in Troika's case) BG 3 at some point.
Whatcouldhavebeen.gif
I got a little excited when I saw your ship.