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[PRIME] 2012 CONSTRUCTIVE Feedback/Suggestions Thread
PAX is over, and most people are winding down. If there was something you did like and want to see more of, didn't like and want to see less of, or didn't see at all and would like to make an appearance, this is the place to suggest it. Remember, this thread is for suggestions (not complaining) about next year's PAX PRIME. Also, please stay civil, and obey the Glorious Edict and Wheaton's Law at all times.
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I have two pieces of feedback on panel streaming:
EDIT: Oh and maybe hopefully do something about 3-day passes selling out in negative 4 hours. I don't know if selling the passes in waves and raising the price every time would work (sell 1K passes the week after PAX East for $60, sell 3K more passes a month later for $80; sell the remaining passes a month after that for $100), or if Tycho & Gabe are too famous and nothing will work, or you'd have to move the convention to Vegas. But anything is better than what happened this year.
"gay" and "rape". You keep on using those words. I do not think they mean what you think they mean.
PAX Prime Preparations - [X] - Fri-Sun Pass [X] - Panel Schedule [X] - Hype [X]
-Check-in booth/concierge downstairs near the entrance where people can get their lanyards, guide books, maps, etc
-With PAX expanding to 4 days next year, hopefully the 3rd day will be open till 2am as well
-Perhaps provide a guide to local restaurants, bars & clubs welcoming PAX attendees or offering free cover or discounts to PAX attendees
-Cosplay/costume contest
I'll update if I come up with anything else.
-3 of the biggest game panels (Halo 4, Fortnite Revealed and Gearbox) were held in the Pegasus theater when they clearly should of been held in the Main theater.. Gearbox panelist even mentioned this. This is an event for gamers by gamers so this should of been a no-brainer. A lot of people who went to PAX for these things didn't get to see them, and that's unfortunate. And no I am not complaining, because I did get into all 3, but I also saw a lot of people turned away, which sucks. Maybe, enforcers should be aware, if they aren't already of how many people can fill each theater. I know they had the clicking counters, but maybe they should tell people "Hey sorry we are at capacity." So people aren't wasting their time waiting in a line to only be turned away, when they could be doing something else. Just an idea.
-Organization for lines, this was really good in the previous years, I do not know why there was a change and no dividers to do a "snake" like line instead of just a huge mess of people sitting in a hallway, constantly being yelled at by enforcers to literally get nuts to butts with the person in-front of you. And people wonder why it stunk so bad? Making people literally stand on-top of each other in a hot hallway in August results in body odor and not to be a dick but a lot of people that go to this event aren't too keen on personal hygiene in the first place.
-Swag, something needs to be done about swag. It literally makes people go ape shit and makes the event unsafe. I saw elderly people, disabled people and even little kids being shoved to the ground and trampled just so some guy/girl could be first in line for a t-shirt. Maybe in the future PAX can make a deal with some of the more popular game companies to include a t-shirt or beta code in the swag bag to avoid such chaos? I like how most game devs weren't handing shirts out until you tested the game, keeps things peaceful. Panel swag is alright, this year it seemed pretty organized where everyone was given a shirt or code as they exited the theaters in an orderly fashion, but the expo hall is a whole different story. That place is overly crowded as is and then you got some guy on a microphone saying "Alright who wants a free t-shirt!?" Next thing you know it's a mad dash to that stage.
-Overcrowding... Every year it seems it's getting worse and worse. There has to be a limit. I know everyone wants to attend but quality over quantity is better. I would much rather attend an event where I can see at least a few things, rather than go to an event where I don't even dare go to the expo hall because I can't take 1 step without being in someone's ass. I took 4 friends who are 1st time attendees and they all said the same thing, that they rather go to panels than deal with the expo hall cause its a waste of time and stressful. That's really sad and probably sucks for game devs who work hard to get a demo for people to try but won't due to overcrowding. I've been going to PAX for 4 years now and this is by far the worst. I understand that the big games are always going to have lines, it's not my fist time at the BBQ, but when you can't even get to the booth because of overcrowding, it's a little demotivating to do anything else.
-Swag bag line. Again, I don't attend these events for free stuff, but I again was with friends who wanted to do the whole PAX experience so we went to get them swag bags... Holy hell why in the world did this process change? Again, previous years it was so much easier. Walk into the queue room, go up to the table/bins and grab or be given a bag from an enforcer. This year consisted of waiting almost 2 hours to go through a buffet style grab and bag line. Why were the bags not premade like previous years? This was ridiculous and wasted 1-2 hours of everyone's time and took away from the experience itself.
-Enforcers.. What happened? Again previous years they were fun, energetic, helpful and polite. This year they were cracking the whip and just seemed power hungry. At one point I came out of the bathroom in the Pegasus theater and there was an enforcer and he told me I had to leave and if I didn't do it immediately he would be forced to escort me out. Another instance was right after the Insomniac panel, one of our buddies went to the bathroom and left his backpack next to us, about 2 minutes after he left 3 enforcers came over and escorted us out. In all the confusion of what was going on we forgot to pick his backpack up, and we lost him because he was in the bathroom and we were being kicked outside. We finally met up with him and he asked what happened and then he asked who grabbed his backpack... We go back in and tell an enforcer who was blocking the escalator what happened and they didn't care and didn't help and thought we were trying to pull a fast one on her to just get upstairs for the Gearbox panel. I even said they could go up there with us to look for it to which we still were denied. Awesome. Luckily nothing of importance was in there like keys or anything, but all his food/drinks and swag he had gotten is gone, not to mention the backpack itself. Also, I witnessed and was also part of many times being touched by enforcers. Keep your hands off of me, I am an adult and if I want to walk out of a door or to a bathroom I will. You do not own the Sheraton hotel or the Paramount Theater or the Convention center for that matter. Want to hear something even better? Same enforcer who would not let us go back up the escalator to search for the backpack also wouldn't let a member of the Gearbox panel up either who had boxes in his hands. After about 3 minutes or so of him telling them he worked for Gearbox and actually had to show her his identification along with his badge, they let him up and he was not happy and called her a fucken bitch. I laughed pretty hard. Also did anyone notice the outside of the Sheraton hotel after they cleared the whole place out? People overflowing into the roads, blocking the revolving doors? Very dangerous and I am very surprised as were others that no police were dispatched to handle the situation. I understand they volunteer to do this, but maybe there needs to be a better way to go about hiring people or maybe up the price of the PAX badges to have more funds to hire a 3rd party company who specializes in such events instead of letting the general public do it.
I know people all had different experiences and even though I said this was the worst PAX that I have been to, there is always a few negative things that happens at all of them too. This year just took the cake in my opinion. I know some people have already posted that enforcers were very helpful to them, etc... But I am not just speaking from my experiences, I watched a lot of people get treated poorly this year and I talked to a lot of people while waiting in lines who were 1st time PAX'ers that really felt it was a waste of their money and time and won't be returning. This sucks because this event is normally awesome. Please take these into consideration instead of trying to debate with me or tell me I'm whining.
Thanks
You wouldn't want it right at the entrance (as somebody suggested), it'd turn into a mess. I think instead it'd be good to include some kind of strip map to the queue room and info desk (and will call) in with the mailed badges. That way people know where to go to get the program, which should then let them find whatever they need.
Assuming they didn't already do that, since I had to do will call anyway (and they had programs there).
But yeah, it's a real "don't know what you don't know" problem, and it's important to ensure a new attendee knows where to go to get started.
I'm not going to 'argue' with you per se, except to point out that this is (and was) a thread all on its own...because there are definitely two sides to that argument.
And while I think this might also be something there are two sides to, I'm not sure I dig the thing we're doing now where we invite huge "single issue" exhibitions...this year, specifically, the LoL tournament. Obviously there were a LOT of people into that, which is why I think there's two sides to it. But that was a TON of floor space taken up by one thing, and also (I'd think?) something that might attract a lot of attendees who might not otherwise have come...and if there's one problem PAX Prime doesn't have it's selling out badges. If we are going to invite something huge like that into the con space, I'd at least prefer to see it outside the WSCC (in one of the satellite areas). I'd think we'd prefer to keep the freeplay areas more central and make something like that LoL tournament the thing you have to walk over to.
PA, please hire a public affairs person. Kickstart it if you must.
More Enforcers (along with some signage and other props, maybe?) to route people would be a start, having the second floor would certainly help, but I guess I don't know how much is in the con's power. But yes, the Sheraton is bad, bad, bad...even if the actual theater space is a godsend. It wasn't this bad last year, but with how bad it DID get this year it made me realize that it wasn't all that great last year either.
Edit: Fuck Vegimite
-Media gets into the Expo Hall at 9am each day, so they have an extra hour more than the general public. They should not be dicks about cutting in line during regular hours because of this, however, not all of them follow Wheaton's Law. Sorry.
-The "build your own swag bag" experiment this year was partially in hopes of avoiding loads of piles of trash as people picked through their bag to find the 1-2 items they wanted and then chucked the rest. Additionally, in previous years the Enforcers spent a 12+ hour day (with about 60-80 of them working) to stuff the swag bags, so the experiment was also to determine if this effort could be dispensed with. Please continue to post feedback so that the Powers That Be may use it in their evaluation of how to move forward.
-Having the Pegasus theater on the third floor was ZOMGWTF for sure - I'm not even sure why it was chosen, unless it's a larger space than the one on the second floor. The options for line management up there were poor at best, I will agree - but it was the *largest* satellite theater available, with 850 seats, so that's why the biggest panels were put there. I have no idea what criteria is used for putting panels in the Main Theater, but I do agree it would be nice to get the super big panels (major game announcements/demos, Wil Wheaton, etc.) there so that more people can enjoy them. Additionally, it would be great to have Pegasus Theater content streamed so those who can't get in can still see it elsewhere, unless there is a NDA with the company presenting.
My main comment/criticism of the event was how tabletop gaming was handled this year. There were lots of tabletop rooms on the third floor of the WSCC as usual, but I never could find where to check out the games. Perhaps this was at the Red Lion only? If so, why were there tabletop rooms at the WSCC? Additionally, the one time I went over to the Red Lion it was incredibly unclear what was where over there, and I never even found the PAX XP codes there.
Great things this year:
-Kraken theater at the Hyatt, as well as registration
-WOTC D&D demos in the lower level of the Annex building
-Really, the complete excellent use of space in the Annex building - kudos and great choices for what went in there
PAX Prime Attendee since 2006, BYOC Attendee 2008-2012, Buttoneer 2010-2014
https://www.pinnypals.com/pals/alegria
1. To echo others: the Sheraton was a mess on Sunday. I had attended the Ratchet and Clank panel before the Gearbox panel and when I made my way through the entrance via that horrible revolving door, I had to literally push my way through the crowd because there were no enforcers to tell everyone to move aside and provide a path back to the sidewalk. I mean, there were at least a dozen upstairs but not a single one outside. A huge, rigid, rather-fragile poster I was given earlier got pretty dinged up, which really, really sucked, because there were so many people who adamantly refused to each move a few more inches to the side to let me through (come on guys, I love you, but seriously? I'm very small, I'm not asking for a whole lotta space here :c). If the Sheraton will be used next year, at least put one or two enforcers outside to make sure any potential hordes can be navigated without fear of drowning.
On a better note, I had zero issue with the enforcers inside, it seems like any problems just stemmed from one or two individuals. I ran to the bathroom after the R&C panel and did not want to take that poster into the bathroom. Asked a nearby enforcer if he would mind watching it and he was very polite and agreed. A total life-saver. (If you're reading this, thank you again!)
2. The Last of Us... Oi. Teeny-tiny enclosed booth, great big monstrous line. Probably the worst booth line of the convention. Don't stuff such a highly-anticipated game with such a small booth and long demo in a corner, much less next to all those emergency doors and whatnot along the convention center's wall. Every couple moments an enforcer would have to come by to make sure folks weren't blocking the doors. It was bad on Friday, but on Sunday (I chose to wait in line for a few minutes with a buddy, but not go into the booth a second time) there was an enforcer who was great and managed the line with a smile. So... at least there was some effort late in the game to make things better.
3. Couldn't swag bags just be handed out like the lanyards and programs? Like, maybe set up a series of tables brimming with the (pre-made) bags along the queue room wall and have a whole bunch of enforcers in front them handing them out as people walk by?
So yeah, just a few thoughts from a newbie. Over all it was a great experience. Wasn't intimidated or upset with the crowd. Will definitely be grabbing tickets for next year.
EDIT. One more thing to add: that list of the theaters/their locations on the back of the passes was awesome and incredibly helpful, so props and a big thanks for tacking that on there.
Sheraton Hotel wasn't that bad last year, Mcdermott. I went to quite a few panels there last year and the way they handled the lines and such was pretty good. I liked the idea of having a huge room to form a snake like line in, as opposed to having to cram 1000+ people into a hallway.
As for Gearbox panel, they should of learned from last years' PAX when they had it up on level 6 of the WSCC and hundreds of people got turned away, that it was going to be super popular this year and put it in the Main Theater. I mean come on Borderlands 2 was one of the biggest games, if not the biggest game at PAX this year. Oh well, again I feel bad for those who didn't get into the panel, it was, in my opinion the best panel of this years' PAX. Gearbox not only rewards their loyal fanbase but they are also a hoot to watch.
Cause let's be honest here pax iks cheap compared to most conventions and as evident by listening to anhyone in the convention center most people would gladly pay a little more to keep scalpers and fake passes out lof the convention
At this point, in reference to Zook's comments, I think there are a few bad apples every year, when there is that many people volunteering, it just becomes a fact of human nature that someone or a few someones are going to be silly goose's. We have ran into this in previous years, but all the enforces I interacted with this time around were fantastic...so it really sucks that you got someone who behaved inappropriately and without common sense.... that is not the norm.
This was my 9th pax in a row, so I feel I can provide a pretty good perspective on the crowds, and what I would say is the following:
1. Compared to last year the crowds were without question lighter.
2. Compared to other years, they were lighter as well. Multiple times per day almost every day, I saw A level titles like Assassin Creed 3, Dishonored or Super Mario Brothers Wii- U (and more) with little to no line. That has never happened, at any PAX I've been to in a very long time.
My suspicion is that a large number of people bought passes for LoL and only for LoL, so didn't spent any or very little of their time doing anything but LoL at PAX. This is a theory, not a fact, but it would explain the lighter crowds and how much faster PAX sold out tickets this year (typically it takes about a Month or so for the tickets to be exhausted, where as this year it sold out in a few days).
I think it's fantastic that we can link a huge event like the LoL regionals with PAX, but I would prefer to see it as an associated offsite event that people register for separately.
Also re: the comment about media (and I say this as someone who attended this year as Media), to clarify we only get early access on one day, not every day....but I strongly agree with the sentiment that PAX is for gamers NOT for media. I do not think media should be able to jump the lines at all, but unfortunately this is largely up to the exhibitors, and it's something that PAX can control.
I was in line for X-Com on Sunday Morning, and while I was at the front of the line, I watched the people running the booth add in media people who took up about half the demo spaces for the next round. I found that highly inappropriate. I understand the desire to get press coverage for your game and how appropriate that is, but I've seen that handled elegantly in previous years at other booths.
For example, some booths have had 1 or 2 media only stations, that regular people could play, but with the understanding they might get bumped by media, in this case they could have had one or two slots for media per demo, they run 30 minutes, so it would've been easy to schedule media in, so that they wouldn't have to wait around, and didn't have to be terribly inconvenient.
Again, my preference would be that there is no special treatment for media, but I just don't think that's feasible, nor is it something that PAX can really enforce with the exhibitors.
It's not just "pay a little more" to get badges with names/photos/fingerprints/dickprints/whatever on them, it's a *lot more* money and hassle for everyone involved. For starters, you couldn't ship the passes anymore - you'd need to have Will-Call pickup for badges, where you have to present photo ID to get them - and there are a *lot* of forms of photo ID that are easily forged, so that's not necessarily going to help out much either. Blizzcon does real names and will-call pickup with photo ID only, and the year I attended that meant we had to arrive the day before Blizzcon, then wait in a four-hour line to get our badges, and that con is *much* smaller than PAX so I don't even want to imagine how long it would take here. Additionally, Penny Arcade has always been all about making PAX as accessible to everyone as possible, and for some people even a 1-day pass is already barely able to fit in their budget, so adding an additional $5-$20 for that would then cut them out of being able to attend. Adding the extra details this year (holographic stamp and sticker) really cut down the fakes tremendously, in fact I'm not aware of any known fake badges though of course I'm not involved to a level where someone would tell me.
PAX Prime Attendee since 2006, BYOC Attendee 2008-2012, Buttoneer 2010-2014
https://www.pinnypals.com/pals/alegria
Well I think we all agree that something needs to be done, especially if pax is going to continue hosting the NA finals every year. I missed last year because of scalpers and I know hundreds of people missed this year because of them as evident by the pages and pages of them on Ebay, and the guys feet from the convention doors. I have no illusion that scalping will magically.disappear tommorow, but if we're going to keep hosting the lol finals it's only going to get worse as the.game gets bigger.
I fully agree.with the poster above you that if it's going to continue they need to create a seperate badge or something so actual pax goers can go and not have their would be pass taken by a guy wbhos going to sit on floor 6 all day olr a guy who thinks he can make quick cash because of the finals. Its undeniable that this year passes sold out so fast and so many were bought for scalping solely because of the league event
Pretty good PAX this year. It's always nice when it blows through town. Maybe not as good as 2011's, but certainly a fantastic time.
Some things I thought really worked:
1) Game check-out library
2) A lot of great panels
3) Expanded convention coverage to the surrounding buildings (seriously, do this every year)
4) The job the enforcers did, by and large
5) The concerts
6) The game shows (goes with panels, I guess)
7) Pre-PAX game night
8) Great variety of game booths
Some things I think didn't worked....at all:
1) The swag bag debacle. That was ridiculous. Good on the man responsible for it standing at the front of the line apologizing to everybody about it, however. Great way to lead by example and own up to a mistake, I approved of that.
2) The security company that was hired. Seriously, they weren't even trying to hide the open levels of disdain and hatred they inexplicably had for every last one of us. EVERYBODY noticed this.
3) No cosplay panel. Last year's Crabcats panel was one of the biggest hits of the convention. Apparently they were denied a panel this year? Surely we could have done with one less "life as a gay gamer" panel to accommodate this, as there seemed to be 7 or 8 of those. The cosplay aspect makes for some of the best people watching of the convention.
5) The LoL tournament. I get it, a lot of people like watching someone else play a video game for some reason. It also made it impossible to hear any of the nearby panels because of the noise generated. Have them do their tournaments on their own time. Last year's LoL setup was perfect.
6) The lines. Getting in line at 10:30 am and being told that you'll get to the front of the line at around 5:30 that evening is not how it should roll.
7) Where'd the swag go? Just seemed to be a lot less of it this year unless we were willing to pre-order a game and shell out money in order to get it.
8) Win/Lose/Banana. 'Nuff said.
9) THE ESCALATORS. Whiskey. Tango. Foxtrot.
Suggestions:
1) Surely there's an easy way to do a gameplay "sign-up" app. You go, you put your name on the digital list for a certain block of time, you get an alert to your phone to be there 15 minutes before your allotted time, you don't show up and someone standing by in a separate line gets your time instead. This would free people up to explore the rest of the convention instead of losing, literally, 90% of their day to play 1 game for 15 minutes. This would solve SO many things.
2) Grant Crabcats their panel slot again and encourage more of the cosplay aspect
3) Do something about the escalators. I get that maybe they aren't designed to have 45 500 pound men on them at a time or something, but god damn....
4) Change security company. Seriously, the paid security people were so openly hostile towards everybody and not even trying to hide their disdain for us with their looks, even as people were just filing along minding their own business. I don't know if it was because most of them were so old that PAX'ers are just a shock to them or they were having flashbacks to being in high school and being able to beat up the nerds, only to be getting paid very little to have to watch the nerds have a good time, but those guys sucked.
5) Tell Microsoft to not be such dicks. We were walking past their platform and someone came out of their secret little surveillance room....we peeked inside and noticed the office was basically one person in there....on a Mac. We thought this was hilarious, so decided to take a picture of it - some chick from the company flew off the damn handle and started screaming at us about how we couldn't do that and blah blah blah. Way to perpetuate that "not cool" stereotype, Microsoft :P
Please steer away from complaints and into suggestions. If you are posting and have not suggested something (other than fix xyz cause you don't like it) you are complaining. Save the complaints for the official survey.
There are maps on each floor by the entrance (like the escalators and elevators), there's a couple large World Maps posted at the main entrance to the WSCC, and there are maps available in the program and in the Guidebook app. Schedules are available in the program, the Guidebook app, and on large signs by each theater door. There were also Enforcers stationed at various points "like 3rd floor escalator landing, and 6th floor hallway between Unicorn and Serpent) to answer questions and help guide folks to where they wanted to go. What more would you like to see available to help guide you?
PAX Prime Attendee since 2006, BYOC Attendee 2008-2012, Buttoneer 2010-2014
https://www.pinnypals.com/pals/alegria
I suggest using the room numbers liberally.
I agree- I've attended Sakura Con in the WSCC for the last several years, and there was many a time when co-ordinating with friends via text I'd tell them both the PAX name and the building room number for wherever we needed to be. It doesn't mean drop the awesome PAX theatre names, but if the guide mentioned that Wolfman=602 or what-have-you, it could make navigation easier (especially for people that already know the center.)
That makes sense and is a great idea.
PAX Prime Attendee since 2006, BYOC Attendee 2008-2012, Buttoneer 2010-2014
https://www.pinnypals.com/pals/alegria
Of course it isn't quite the same what with PAX being 4 days now but the same idea still applies.
Pointless signature checklist [x]
Oh, hey I'm making a game! Check it out: Dr. Weirdo!
I saw Khoo cracking down on it personally but if we could get rid of people scalping directly outside of the convention center it'd be great.
I also really appreciated the Enforcer with the 'Ask questions, I have answers' board, but they were directly infront of a no stop zone. Maybe more E run information booths?
Thread where we argued about badges/scalping can be found here.
I think next year it would be better to keep the tabletop in one building. This would allow you to run one larger library, make it easier to find a group, etc.
At least for the "general" tabletop; obviously WoTC having their huge Magic/D&D area is fine.
I definitely agree with this. I didn't get to go this year because badges were gone way too fast, and this is an easy-to-implement measure that would at least help ensure that some badges would be available to people who actually intend to use them to their fullest extent. Dunno if it would have helped this year (after all, single days went really fast too), but every little bit, right?
Bringing back pass trading on the forum would be nice too. I wanted to go very badly this year, but I just couldn't manage scalpers' prices.
I understand booths have the power to dole out time however they like, but they really have little incentive to let gamers play and every incentive to let the media play. An added incentive to let gamers play would be if pax "encouraged" them in a tangible way.
There's still a lot more conference rooms in the hotels around the Washington State Convention Centre to take over for PAX Prime 2013 and beyond!